Canisius/Baron Poll

Rhodyhooopz · Unread post by **Rhodyhooopz** » 11 years ago

my answer is WHO F...ING CARES! The baron's dont exsist in my world.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

I guess those guys can forgive and forget.

It's not so easy to do, when you read about what Hurley said about the state of the program when he got here.

I hope he falls on his face at Canisius. Loser.

Ramblinrose · Unread post by **Ramblinrose** » 11 years ago

The ironic part is people complain about how Baron left the program in such lousy shape. If he hadn't he might still be here.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

I'm quite thankful the way things turned out.

I mean, we can blame Carothers for the extension, but even without it, who would have replaced Baron at that time? We might have gotten another crappy coach to replace him.

Blue Man · Unread post by **Blue Man** » 11 years ago

I hadn't really needed to respond because STC and Rod hit the nail on the head. Those who know anything about basketball or this program know what a fraud Baron is/was.

That being said..I would be furious simply for the fact that the Barons are not taking ownership of driving this program deeper into the ground than when they found it.

Billy is acting like his father was a victim of some conspiracy theory to get him gone, instead of his father being an awful basketball coach never being able to coach in big games, clutch situations, or during important points in the season.

He was also never able to put a schedule together that even gave us an opportunity to get to a tournament with 20 wins.

His "doing things the right way" mantra is a pile of crap. Our APR is in serious danger for the next few years thanks to the idiots he brought in. I'm all for bringing in idiots - just make sure they can play. I'm not under the illusion that D-1 athletes are students anyway. They're damn good at what they do. It'd be great if you can get guys who are good character, good students, and good players (Hurley sure can) - but if you're going to take 1 or less of those traits...I'd rather that one be the latter of the 3.

So if Baron goes to a tourney before we do...it will be some sort of sick, twisted validation for Baron's "pawt of da process" and all the morons who think that Baron was a great, good or even above average basketball coach.

It just sucks that we're losing with a better staff and program outlook than we ever had under CFL, and he's winning. It's like a murderer walking out of a courtroom with a smile after he gets off the hook. that's why it's sickening.

But if we go to the NCAA's before Baron...then I'm fine and ok and can put that all to rest. I'll prob even thank baron for sucking for long enough to get us the Hurleys.

section(105) · Unread post by **section(105)** » 11 years ago

Voted happy; explain myself, sure why not. Not being a hatter, I like second, third chances for those in their choosen field to have an opportunity to succeed after failure. Especially with coaches. I had coached some high school, and hung around some of those hoop camps in PA, and like coaches to have success, except, of course, in those head-to-head matches with Rhody. I did want Jim outta here. Fair enough??

BFC · Unread post by **BFC** » 11 years ago

I can't really vote, I wouldn't be furious but I would be annoyed. Cordischi and the Projo writers will immediately start writing about how they were right all along and URI shouldn't have wanted a better coach. They'll use it to vindicate Baron's commitment to mediocre.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Bingo!
BFC has it 100% right. We've already heard or read some of that
from the local media, who loved CFL.
That was easy. He wasn't their coach.

RhodyO · Unread post by **RhodyO** » 11 years ago

Bottom Line, he has to win the tourny .... He will fall part just like he had every .... single ..... year he did here. Can't wait to see him fall on his stache.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

Definitely neutral, although based on my knowledge of Baron's history, that Canisius team isn't going to the dance.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

BFC wrote:I can't really vote, I wouldn't be furious but I would be annoyed. Cordischi and the Projo writers will immediately start writing about how they were right all along and URI shouldn't have wanted a better coach. They'll use it to vindicate Baron's commitment to mediocre.

Not that I doubt that the local press would react exactly how you predict they would but, wouldn't the more logical conclusion be that his success at Canisius is evidence that is the right level for him to coach at, and his lack of success here is evidence that this level is not a good fit for his skill set?

Rhody72 · Unread post by **Rhody72** » 11 years ago

It will just go to show that it was not the coach who was the problem the past 11 years that prevented URI from going to the NCAAs. URI was just looking for a scapegoat to blame for the institutions lack of commitment to intercollegiate athletics and he was an easy target. Baron received two contract extensions during his tenure.

How many times has women's basketball gone to the NCAAs during the same time frame? How successful has football been in going to post-season play-offs during this time? How many fans are showing up for URI Men's basketball this season?

The commitment to excellence must be the norm for all URI teams. While i thought JB was just an average coach whose style I didn't like; the powers-that-be at URI to whom he reported apparently thought otherwise and tolerated mediocrity which has been much better than the status of football or women's basketball.

As much as I like DH, the more successful his teams become, the less likely he will stay at URI. URI needs an institutional commitment for athletic excellence that doesn't depend upon one hot coach.

If JB goes to the NCAAs through an automatic bid it will just go to show how weak of a conference in which he coaches. If his team gets an at-large invitation, he deserves kludos.

reef · Unread post by **reef** » 11 years ago

Canisius loses yes !!!

Rhode_Island_Red · Unread post by **Rhode_Island_Red** » 11 years ago

STC wrote:For the 17 people that voted they would be happy for Baron, please, explain yourself.

I'm one. Why? Because I put aside my Italian Alzheimer's (you forget everything but the grudges). He's a mediocre coach but a good, decent man, and when I consider the collection of eels, lizards and snakes at other schools, yeah, I'd be happy for him if he made the NCAA.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Easy, STC, those were the guys who loved CFL, despite his mediocrity.
They feel he got screwed by URI by getting fired. They wanted him to
continue his destruction of the program, which surely would have happened had
he stayed.
We were close to academic sanctions, thanks to his "doing thing the right way"
baloney.

BFC · Unread post by **BFC** » 11 years ago

TruePoint wrote:
BFC wrote:I can't really vote, I wouldn't be furious but I would be annoyed. Cordischi and the Projo writers will immediately start writing about how they were right all along and URI shouldn't have wanted a better coach. They'll use it to vindicate Baron's commitment to mediocre.
Not that I doubt that the local press would react exactly how you predict they would but, wouldn't the more logical conclusion be that his success at Canisius is evidence that is the right level for him to coach at, and his lack of success here is evidence that this level is not a good fit for his skill set?

Yes, but that already should have been the conclusion. The fact that he didn't have interest from a comparable program since his second year at URI should have been evidence of that. The fact that when on the open market, his only offer was Canisius should have been evidence of that. But despite those facts none of those writers have acknowledged that they overvalued Baron, in fact Cordishi wrote an ode to Baron's greatness a few months ago that Canisius' athletic department would have been too embarrassed to release.

Ramblinrose · Unread post by **Ramblinrose** » 11 years ago

I fail to understand how anyone thinks URI gave Baron a raw deal by firing him. Trying to screw him out of his remaining pay? Yes.
He got URI as far as his ability would go. I never faulted his effort just his results. And I do not get the personal animosity some have for him. He is where he belongs. I think the two years of Jerry D. were probably more destructive. He was handed a great team for no apparent reason, other than players wanted him.
He dissolved the Harrick success in about three weeks. I feel more annoyed by his success as an NBA assistant than Baron's run so far at Canisius. Jerry turned URI into a national joke and set it up so a mediocre coach like Baron seemed good by comparison. URI's history is littered with bad hiring decisions and a lack of a real game plan. Alums courted Harrick. Penders fell into their laps. Hurley may end up being the first fully thought-out hire since Zarchen hired Jack Kraft in 1974. I guess you could add Al Skinner to that, too. Hiring Claude, Malone and Tom Carmody, and Jerry, of course, were moves that set things back in a big way.

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 11 years ago

We have to give Baron at least 2 or 3 years to drive that program into the ground.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Yeah, Canisius won't be getting better anytime soon with JB coaching them.

These players aren't his, except for his son. Look for a slow decline from here on out.

reef · Unread post by **reef** » 11 years ago

I pray they dont make the dance this year or while he is head man there

scine20 · Unread post by **scine20** » 11 years ago

I have no idea how people can defend Baron's time at URI. He was the head coach at a school that has arguably the best college basketball facility anywhere in the northeast. That should be enough of a sell to recruits to get them to the level of Xavier most years.

He brought in some decent players. However, the fact that he wasn't able to get a team with Will Daniels, Kaheim Seawright, Lamonte Ulmer, Keith Cothran, Parfait Bitee, Jimmy Baron and Delroy James to the NCAA tournament probably should have been a fireable offense. I honestly don't know how that can happen.

And then two straight years all he has to do is beat weak UMass teams to probably get in, one at home, and he can't even get his team to do that. And then instead of taking the high road he blames his players. I specifically remember listening to the postgame after the home loss to UMass and he starts blaming Marquis Jones for not guarding the UMass guard who went coast to coast "like he told him to do."

I think Baron was okay until the 2007-2008 meltdown and from then on he was atrocious and his performance indefensible.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Yes, but he'll win his precious 20 games this year, and guys on Projo and Golocal, will
make snide remarks about how wonderful he is, and "why can't we get coaches like that ?" crapola.

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 11 years ago

scine20 wrote:I have no idea how people can defend Baron's time at URI. He was the head coach at a school that has arguably the best college basketball facility anywhere in the northeast. That should be enough of a sell to recruits to get them to the level of Xavier most years.

That is a bit of a stretch. The Ryan Center is one of the better on campus arenas in the northeast but it is not the best nor biggest. Very compelling arguments could be made that Pitt, Syracuse, Temple, UMass, Penn State, and UConn for instance have bigger and better campus venues. Other northeast schools could also claim their off campus arenas that they rent (Providence, Siena, UConn, St. John's, Seton Hall, Georegtown, and Villanova) are bigger and better.

Your general point that Baron did not do enough with the Ryan Center however is spot on. We have not gotten enough of a boost from it. It was hoped that its opening would raise the level of URI. In the end, URI couldn't even maintain its level from the 1990's.

ramfan85 · Unread post by **ramfan85** » 11 years ago

I don't know how close we really were even before that home UMASS game. We went to the NIT as a two seed. Doesn't that mean that there were at least 4 teams ahead of us?

STC · Unread post by **STC** » 11 years ago

scine20 wrote:I have no idea how people can defend Baron's time at URI. He was the head coach at a school that has arguably the best college basketball facility anywhere in the northeast. That should be enough of a sell to recruits to get them to the level of Xavier most years.

He brought in some decent players. However, the fact that he wasn't able to get a team with Will Daniels, Kaheim Seawright, Lamonte Ulmer, Keith Cothran, Parfait Bitee, Jimmy Baron and Delroy James to the NCAA tournament probably should have been a fireable offense. I honestly don't know how that can happen.

And then two straight years all he has to do is beat weak UMass teams to probably get in, one at home, and he can't even get his team to do that. And then instead of taking the high road he blames his players. I specifically remember listening to the postgame after the home loss to UMass and he starts blaming Marquis Jones for not guarding the UMass guard who went coast to coast "like he told him to do."

I think Baron was okay until the 2007-2008 meltdown and from then on he was atrocious and his performance indefensible.

I think it's funny how only 1 or 2 of the people that voted they would be happy for Baron have actually provided an explanation, and I have more respect for those that argue their case. I think there was some ballot stuffing on this poll, I have a hard time believing all 20 people that voted they would be happy are all people who have the best interest of the program and URI in mind. I wonder how many of those 20 are regular contributors to this board and how many just created an account to vote 'happy' and support Baron.

Oh, and the people that thought Skerry would blow were those loyal Baron supporters. 'Baron doesn't need Skerry, recruiting was fine before him it will be fine after' yeah, not so much folks. Looks like Kevin Clarke saw the writing on the wall, credit to him for getting out before the ship sank.

Anyways, Baron's right on schedule for his 2nd half swoon, 8-2 to start the year, 9-8 since. I really hope we host Canisius at the RC soon because I will be front and center behind that Canisius bench giving Baron hell for 40 minutes.

URIGONZO · Unread post by **URIGONZO** » 11 years ago

I voted that I would be happy for him. My reason is that I thought he did a decent job here at URI. He didn't bring us to the NCAA tournament which sucks, and he was fired because of that. But he (or his assitants) brought in some good players, and there were some exciting times at the Ryan Center.

I also like Billy and would be happy to see him the NCAA tournament as well.

adam914 · Unread post by **adam914** » 11 years ago

I'm willing to bet a fair number of the "happy for" votes were PC fans just trolling.

Rambone65 · Unread post by **Rambone65** » 11 years ago

Canisius RPI: 100 Rhody RPI: 190

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Who gives a cares? He inherited five transfers, including Sosa, his best shooter,
and two mobile 6'10" centers.
Hurley has to manage the shit show Baron left behind, including significant academic issues.
Imagine having a scholarship basketball player working as a bouncer?
What's Canisius' SOS? Let the coaches swap players and schedules, and tell me it would be as they are now.

scine20 · Unread post by **scine20** » 11 years ago

Rod, no one with any level of knowledge will make any judgements on Hurley as a coach until at least 3 years at URI.

What Hurley is doing this year means absolutely nothing. He has less talent than any URI team I have ever seen, including the Jerry D years, last year's team and the 2004-2005 team. And it's not even that close.

In all honesty, Canisius probably has as much or more talent than what URI has. For Hurley to get even 8 wins out of the crap he has out there is nothing short of miraculous.

SmartyBarrett · Unread post by **SmartyBarrett** » 11 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:What's Canisius' SOS? Let the coaches swap players and schedules, and tell me it would be as they are now.

SOS:

Canisius: 158
URI: 71

scine20 · Unread post by **scine20** » 11 years ago

RF1 wrote:
scine20 wrote:I have no idea how people can defend Baron's time at URI. He was the head coach at a school that has arguably the best college basketball facility anywhere in the northeast. That should be enough of a sell to recruits to get them to the level of Xavier most years.

That is a bit of a stretch. The Ryan Center is one of the better on campus arenas in the northeast but it is not the best nor biggest. Very compelling arguments could be made that Pitt, Syracuse, Temple, UMass, Penn State, and UConn for instance have bigger and better campus venues. Other northeast schools could also claim their off campus arenas that they rent (Providence, Siena, UConn, St. John's, Seton Hall, Georegtown, and Villanova) are bigger and better.

The only two in the northeast that have on-campus arenas that can compete with URI are Penn State and Pitt, but those are obviously a lot bigger and will attract a different kind of recruit given the conferences that the schools are in.

UMass? Have you ever been to the Mullins Center? It is a dump and a horrible place to watch a game unless you have low seats.

I think that URI probably has one of the best arenas in the entire country among non-BCS level schools.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

What Hurley is doing this year is VERY SIGNIFICANT!
Changing the loser culture, as well as rebuilding his roster is highly
important.
I've seen Canisius twice, and for this year, I'd trade rosters with them in a
heartbeat. Baron fell into a perfect storm. Five solid transfers, one decent guard, and an animal named Manhertz, both holdovers, and
getting Billy to play for him.
So, he looks like a God to the Griffs fans, and some of the CFL worshippers here, for going five wins to 20 wins. Playing a 158th SOS in a lousy league vesus a 71 SOS in the A-10, makes a big difference.

scine20 · Unread post by **scine20** » 11 years ago

Rod, I meant what Hurley does in the win/loss columns doesn't mean anything.

He's doing a lot in teaching these guys to play a full 48 minutes, actually hustle throughout the game, run sets, etc. I don't think that Baron even knew what a set is.

Rambone65 · Unread post by **Rambone65** » 11 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:What Hurley is doing this year is VERY SIGNIFICANT!
Changing the loser culture, as well as rebuilding his roster is highly
important.
I've seen Canisius twice, and for this year, I'd trade rosters with them in a
heartbeat. Baron fell into a perfect storm. Five solid transfers, one decent guard, and an animal named Manhertz, both holdovers, and
getting Billy to play for him.
So, he looks like a God to the Griffs fans, and some of the CFL worshippers here, for going five wins to 20 wins. Playing a 158th SOS in a lousy league vesus a 71 SOS in the A-10, makes a big difference.

Rod keeps repeating this mantra of canisius inheriting what amounts to an NBA team. This is a wildly exaggerated claim, as anyone knows. The fact is, the MAAC coaches, who presumably knew a little more about Baron's dream transfers than Rod, picked his NBA squad to finish next to last in that very same league you all are ridiculing. And as far as maintaining a decent RPI, I'm sure you all realize that a bad strength of schedule penalizes you in RPI, right? That's why our RPI is better than Southern's, despite their 16-8 record. Our 8-17 record gives us a slightly higher RPI thanks to our SOS (71) vs their's (346). Therefore you can't attribute all of Baron's RPI strength to SOS.

Funny...these things called facts. And the fact is, you can hate him for what you did here, but the twisted arguments about why his good year really isn't (especially the ludicrous "he inherited the dream team") don't work. Gotta give the guy his due if you're capable of being objective at all.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Hey guys, let's just say Canisius has some talent, most of it transfers.

Baron hasn't had enough time to muck things up yet. Give him time, please.

They play well at times, poorly at times. Typically Baron inconsistent. The proof will come when the games really mean something, especially close games.

That's when Baron teams always fall on their faces. They won't disappoint us.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Yeah Rod, I'm not thrilled with his handle either, but what can we do about it?

The number in my handle refers to my grad year, does his? Doesn't matter anyway.

Anyway, my opinions don't match his, so it's OK. I don't get why he thinks he's smarter than the rest of us, it does sound like a couple of posters on the old board, for sure.

The mods will take care of him soon, I guess.

UCH21377 · Unread post by **UCH21377** » 11 years ago

scine20 wrote:
RF1 wrote:
scine20 wrote:I have no idea how people can defend Baron's time at URI. He was the head coach at a school that has arguably the best college basketball facility anywhere in the northeast. That should be enough of a sell to recruits to get them to the level of Xavier most years.

That is a bit of a stretch. The Ryan Center is one of the better on campus arenas in the northeast but it is not the best nor biggest. Very compelling arguments could be made that Pitt, Syracuse, Temple, UMass, Penn State, and UConn for instance have bigger and better campus venues. Other northeast schools could also claim their off campus arenas that they rent (Providence, Siena, UConn, St. John's, Seton Hall, Georegtown, and Villanova) are bigger and better.
The only two in the northeast that have on-campus arenas that can compete with URI are Penn State and Pitt, but those are obviously a lot bigger and will attract a different kind of recruit given the conferences that the schools are in.

UMass? Have you ever been to the Mullins Center? It is a dump and a horrible place to watch a game unless you have low seats.

I was visiting UConn yesterday. Gampel is nice, but the Ryan Center is right there with it. As a whole, however, the URI campus does not compare to UConn. The state of CT has obviously invested significantly in their State U; and it shows. Unfortunately RI has been late to invest in URI, and the difference is obvious.

UCH21377 · Unread post by **UCH21377** » 11 years ago

Don't know what happened on the above post; my comment about Gampel and UConn somehow got inserted in the middle of Scine20's quote.

scine20 · Unread post by **scine20** » 11 years ago

I'd take the Ryan Center any day over Gampel.

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 11 years ago

The Ryan Center is a nice little on campus facility. It however is not really all that special. To say it is the best in the northeast or one of the best in the country is extreme hyperbole. Most all the big time schools have bigger and better facilities on their campuses. The facilities such as at Pitt, Penn State, Maryland, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Michigan State, Xavier, St. Louis, Missouri, Oregon, Arkansas are all bigger and better. Closer to home, the Agganis Arena at BU, while a few hundred seats less, is a nicer facility than the Ryan Center.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Yes, the Ryan Center should be torn down, because it's so microscopic and lousy.

URIGONZO · Unread post by **URIGONZO** » 11 years ago

The Ryan Center is a gem of an-campus arena. In the context of this thread, the argument is being made that it is a great recruiting tool. I agree that it is a great recruiting tool, but I think it's value is being over-played. URI needs to upgrade its facilties around the Ryan Center, such as the weight room, study areas etc.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

I guess you haven't been paying attention. The players have a new room where they can study, or watch TV, as well as upgraded lockers.
There are plans for a new scoreboard, new floor, new lighting and those lights that go around the arena on the edge of the upper deck, among other things. Plus, an award winning full time Academic Advisor was hired.
Rome wasn't built in a day.

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 11 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:I guess you haven't been paying attention. The players have a new room where they can study, or watch TV, as well as upgraded lockers.
There are plans for a new scoreboard, new floor, new lighting and those lights that go around the arena on the edge of the upper deck, among other things. Plus, an award winning full time Academic Advisor was hired.
Rome wasn't built in a day.

I agree with this but I think facilities are probably 5th or 6th on the list of things recruits care about, if it is even that high. My guess is something like this:

1. Coach/Staff
2. Exposure
3. Competition
4. Academics
5. Facilities

It's like the arm strength of an NFL QB. You don't have to have the strongest arm in the league but it has to be good enough to make the deep out. In that sense, the Ryan Center is good enough where it doesn't preclude elite recruits from crossing Rhody off the list. From there, it is up to the staff.

BFC · Unread post by **BFC** » 11 years ago

Gonebarongone wrote:I agree with this but I think facilities are probably 5th or 6th on the list of things recruits care about, if it is even that high. My guess is something like this:

1. Coach/Staff
2. Exposure
3. Competition
4. Academics
5. Facilities

It's like the arm strength of an NFL QB. You don't have to have the strongest arm in the league but it has to be good enough to make the deep out. In that sense, the Ryan Center is good enough where it doesn't preclude elite recruits from crossing Rhody off the list. From there, it is up to the staff.

Number 1 would disagree with your ranking of number 5.

Blue Man · Unread post by **Blue Man** » 11 years ago

agreed. academics is 5th, if that. Facilities fall no lower than 3rd.

Any competitive D-1 program, shit, even any competitive level club program turns into a part time job, minimum. Basketball is a full time job for these guys (which is ridiculous that they can't get compensated beyond tuition for) in the winter.

If you were offered a job but your office sucked horribly, you'd think twice about it.

The facilities are probably where these guys spend the most time. Where you train, practice, play, and relax is def near the forefront of a player's mind.

BFC · Unread post by **BFC** » 11 years ago

Kids these days are all about asthetics, name brand clothes, expensive cars, high end electronics, etc. Basketball recruits aren't any different, they want the wow factor. It's not a good thing but its reality.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

This is the first time in my following this program, where there is a complete
committment to a winning program.
It used to be, "OK, we'll hire Jim Harrick or Jack Kraft, and they'll be our bigtime committment",
and that was it. The only thing bigtime about the program was Harrick or Kraft.
These new people, from President Dooley on down, are brainstorming as to any way they can
forward the program, be it facilities, marketing or academics.
The Athletic Department isn't an branch of The Alumni Association, anymore. People like Daryl Jasper are hired for
their resume of accomplishments elsewhere, not because they graduated here.
Merit has become the main factor in hiring.
What Hurley wants is to put the program on an equal footing with the competition, to attract
student athletes, who will be winners on and off the court.
This all won't happen overnight, but it will happen.

scine20 · Unread post by **scine20** » 11 years ago

RF1, I said that URI's facilities are as good as pretty much any NON-BCS school in the country. The schools you mentioned are almost exclusively BCS schools.

As far as some of the BCS schools you mentioned, I have been to Missouri and Xavier's arenas, and neither are as nice as the Ryan Center. They may be bigger but that's about it.

If Canisius Makes the NCAA's will you be...