Most of Baron's turnaround was executed with players he inherited from Jerry D. Brian Woodward was 1st in points and rebounds per game and 2nd in assists. Howard Smith was 1st in assists, 4th in rebounds. Lazare Adingono was 3rd in points, 2nd in rebounds. All three and Steve Mello were guys that he inherited. That's a solid core for year two of a turnaround. Archie literally has no one from the previous regime in year twobigappleram wrote: ↑4 months ago For all intents and purposes Jim Baron executed a quick turnaround and how did that turn out. Inherited the Jerry D dumpster fire and had the team in NIT in 2nd year. I just keep being reminded of the “we will be good when we’re good” from the press conference. Archie seems to have his own timetable and a clear manner in which he wants to get there. We shall see.
the ARCH-itect !
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- Frank Keaney
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
Take down the Robert Carothers banner and fix the concession stand lines
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- Ernie Calverley
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
Yeah, I didn't expect us to win those games, but I was hoping we would have made it competitive.RhowdyRam02 wrote: ↑4 months agoThat should automatically happen. We just played the toughest two game stretch on our schedule, going back to back on the road to two of the top 3 homecourt advantages in the conference against teams ranked 14th and 81st in the NETJersey77 wrote: ↑4 months agoNone of us expected that bad of a beatdown those last 2 games.rambone 78 wrote: ↑4 months ago I have never said that I expected Archie to deliver a national championship by year 2. Being facetious here lol.
But what i didnt expect were performances like we just saw the last two games.
It's not just black and white as in wins and losses. It's how we play that's more important right now. Growing pains are to be expected of course.
We aren't a blue blood who can attract top talent and get good right away. I know this.
Archie knows how to coach. He knows what's wrong and can see what he needs.
I just thought we shouldn't be having these issues to this extent. Archie should and will be judged by the talent he brings in here over the next couple of years.
Meanwhile he needs to figure out how to get the best out of what he has. He needs to do a better job of that.
That's all.
Starting tomorrow we need to turn it around and look more like the team that previously won 4 straight.
I was especially disappointed with our defensive effort and so was Archie.
To me the Bonnies have underperformed so far this season and lost their last 2 games since beating us.
Also remember Fordham did beat the Bonnies in Olean 80-74.
I still feel we win tonight at the RC.
Last edited by Jersey77 4 months ago, edited 1 time in total.
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- Frank Keaney
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
Yes and no. The first thought is that with free transferring you should be able to turn it around quicker, but it's a double edged sword. It makes it harder to build when you've got a losing team and players decide to move on to a team that's winning instead of building the programNYGFan_Section208 wrote: ↑4 months agoI think the environment has changed...and everyone is still trying to figure out just how many years it should take.Rhody_NYCT wrote: ↑4 months ago No matter how disappointing it can be at times, you have to give a new coach 3-4 years to rebuild.
This is not the same era in which Hurls took over. Seems if you're going to be good these days, it should happen quicker than it used to.
Take down the Robert Carothers banner and fix the concession stand lines
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- Ernie Calverley
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
I’ll give you Woodward, he was a dog and really good.RhowdyRam02 wrote: ↑4 months agoMost of Baron's turnaround was executed with players he inherited from Jerry D. Brian Woodward was 1st in points and rebounds per game and 2nd in assists. Howard Smith was 1st in assists, 4th in rebounds. Lazare Adingono was 3rd in points, 2nd in rebounds. All three and Steve Mello were guys that he inherited. That's a solid core for year two of a turnaround. Archie literally has no one from the previous regime in year twobigappleram wrote: ↑4 months ago For all intents and purposes Jim Baron executed a quick turnaround and how did that turn out. Inherited the Jerry D dumpster fire and had the team in NIT in 2nd year. I just keep being reminded of the “we will be good when we’re good” from the press conference. Archie seems to have his own timetable and a clear manner in which he wants to get there. We shall see.
But I think calling those other guys a “strong core” is a massive stretch. That was a fairly remarkable turnaround given the circumstances of what Baron had inherited.
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
The three guys I mentioned were 1st and 3rd in points, 1st and 2nd in assists, and 1st, 2nd, and 4th in rebounds. There was talent here, it was just impossible to see how it would be a team because Jerry D was so bad.
Imagine how much different Archie's rebuild would be looking if he inherited those type of players
Imagine how much different Archie's rebuild would be looking if he inherited those type of players
Take down the Robert Carothers banner and fix the concession stand lines
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- Ernie Calverley
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
How they ranked in stats on a poor team isn't really a reflection of their talent level tho. It just illustrates how talent poor that crew was.RhowdyRam02 wrote: ↑4 months ago The three guys I mentioned were 1st and 3rd in points, 1st and 2nd in assists, and 1st, 2nd, and 4th in rebounds. There was talent here, it was just impossible to see how it would be a team because Jerry D was so bad.
Imagine how much different Archie's rebuild would be looking if he inherited those type of players
Howie Smith averaged 3 ppg as a senior PG. Steve is from my hometown and I have known him since he was a kid and got nothing but love but wasn't he a walk on? Lazare was serviceable but Archie inherited Ish who was 10x the player to them. Malik is prob similar to Lazare. I don't think Archie inherited much don't get me wrong, but neither did Baron. The program was a complete and total dumpster fire.
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- Cuttino Mobley
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
See? You two can have a civil conversation while disagreeing.
Now shake hands and hug it out, bitch.
Now shake hands and hug it out, bitch.
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
IMO, this team desperately needs a strong, athletic, 6'9 or taller, big. It appears that Joe will not play any more this season. His absence killed last season and looks to do the same to this season. Brown and Fuchs are not able to make other teams worry about attacking the rim. Our defense would improve immediately.
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
I'm looking for the post that states "all rebuilding take 3-4 years." I can't find it. Let me know if you can find it.
I don't think it's unreasonable for those of us stating that we'll give a coach 4-years to pass judgment on his rebuild. (That's a lot different than people saying all rebuilds take 3-4 years.)
And for clarification...did Frank Martin rebuild the South Carolina basketball factory or tear it down?
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- Jimmy Baron
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
Some people just don’t understand. Nobody is saying that you can’t rebuild in a year or two. It’s just not the norm. When you hire a coach for a rebuild, you should be prepared to give that coach 4 years to get the job done.
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
Unless you're so bad it's clear you have to move on before they get to year 4. Every rebuild has a different context.Rhody_NYCT wrote: ↑4 months ago Some people just don’t understand. Nobody is saying that you can’t rebuild in a year or two. It’s just not the norm. When you hire a coach for a rebuild, you should be prepared to give that coach 4 years to get the job done.
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It’s hard to know with all the new players how they will gel as a team , we matched last years win total and hopefully smash it with another 7 or so wins
The key then is taking another step for next year with the development of the team , is this the core that can do that ? We will find out in time
The key then is taking another step for next year with the development of the team , is this the core that can do that ? We will find out in time
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- Tom Garrick
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
Agree, there are occasional exceptions. (DePaul just let go of Tony Stubblefield. URI let go of Jerry D.)PeterRamTime wrote: ↑4 months agoUnless you're so bad it's clear you have to move on before they get to year 4. Every rebuild has a different context.Rhody_NYCT wrote: ↑4 months ago Some people just don’t understand. Nobody is saying that you can’t rebuild in a year or two. It’s just not the norm. When you hire a coach for a rebuild, you should be prepared to give that coach 4 years to get the job done.
This is the middle of Archie's 2nd year...we're in pretty standard territory right now.
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
The key is what does this current team look like in the A10 Tournament.reef wrote: ↑4 months ago It’s hard to know with all the new players how they will gel as a team , we matched last years win total and hopefully smash it with another 7 or so wins
The key then is taking another step for next year with the development of the team , is this the core that can do that ? We will find out in time
Do we win our 1st game, 2nd game……..??
Or do we go home after 1 game?
By end of year 2 we should be winning at LEAST 1 game in Brooklyn
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- Tom Garrick
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
I've never been one to use the conference tournament as a measuring stick. It's a crapshoot.ramster wrote: ↑4 months agoThe key is what does this current team look like in the A10 Tournament.reef wrote: ↑4 months ago It’s hard to know with all the new players how they will gel as a team , we matched last years win total and hopefully smash it with another 7 or so wins
The key then is taking another step for next year with the development of the team , is this the core that can do that ? We will find out in time
Do we win our 1st game, 2nd game……..??
Or do we go home after 1 game?
By end of year 2 we should be winning at LEAST 1 game in Brooklyn
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- Frank Keaney
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
It's also the only way to qualify for the NCAA Tournament in a 1-Bid Conference. But why use it you say?PlayMikeMotenMore wrote: ↑4 months agoI've never been one to use the conference tournament as a measuring stick. It's a crapshoot.ramster wrote: ↑4 months agoThe key is what does this current team look like in the A10 Tournament.reef wrote: ↑4 months ago It’s hard to know with all the new players how they will gel as a team , we matched last years win total and hopefully smash it with another 7 or so wins
The key then is taking another step for next year with the development of the team , is this the core that can do that ? We will find out in time
Do we win our 1st game, 2nd game……..??
Or do we go home after 1 game?
By end of year 2 we should be winning at LEAST 1 game in Brooklyn
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- Ernie Calverley
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
This is 100% wrong.ramster wrote: ↑4 months agoIt's also the only way to qualify for the NCAA Tournament in a 1-Bid Conference. But why use it you say?PlayMikeMotenMore wrote: ↑4 months agoI've never been one to use the conference tournament as a measuring stick. It's a crapshoot.
Conferences control how they determine their automatic qualifier.
The A10 can choose to reward the regular season champion with an automatic bid.
Obviously the conference tournament is used for exposure, money, etc.
Go Rhody
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- Frank Keaney
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
Which conferences do NOT award the Automatic Bid to the winner of the end of season Conference Tournament? Should be quick and easy seeing as how I’m 100% wrong.Rhody15 wrote: ↑4 months agoThis is 100% wrong.ramster wrote: ↑4 months agoIt's also the only way to qualify for the NCAA Tournament in a 1-Bid Conference. But why use it you say?PlayMikeMotenMore wrote: ↑4 months ago
I've never been one to use the conference tournament as a measuring stick. It's a crapshoot.
Conferences control how they determine their automatic qualifier.
The A10 can choose to reward the regular season champion with an automatic bid.
Obviously the conference tournament is used for exposure, money, etc.
In addition, I was talking about the A10. Did not realize I had to be specific that the Conferences control this. Hard to imagine a Conference holding a Conference Tournament at the end of the season but not awarding the AQ, I assume they give it to the Conference Season Standings Champ instead?
That’s some wild thinking
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- Ernie Calverley
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
The Ivy League didn’t for years, just recently introduced a conference tournament. They awarded it to regular season champion.ramster wrote: ↑4 months agoWhich conferences do NOT award the Automatic Bid to the winner of the end of season Conference Tournament? Should be quick and easy seeing as how I’m 100% wrong.
In addition, I was talking about the A10. Did not realize I had to be specific that the Conferences control this. Hard to imagine a Conference holding a Conference Tournament at the end of the season but not awarding the AQ, I assume they give it to the Conference Season Standings Champ instead?
That’s some wild thinking
Again, it’s very obvious as to why everyone does a conference tournament, but it is not the only way to award an automatic birth.
Conferences do not need to hold a conference tournament.
Go Rhody
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- Carlton Owens
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
I think the Ivy goes to the overall conference regular season winner still? Maybe they changed it (without looking it up)?
Mobley was fouled.
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- Ernie Calverley
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
Yup, read my post above.
They just recently changed to a 4 team conference tourney.
Go Rhody
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- Frank Keaney
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
Nope.
Ivy goes with the Top 4 Finishers in the Regular Season
They play a single elimination tournament
Ivy started this in 2017
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- Ernie Calverley
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
You saying a conference tourney is the only way to an automatic bid is wrong though.
Dead wrong.
Conference tournaments to determine an auto bid are not mandatory.
You can’t argue it, but you’re trying to like always.
Go Rhody
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
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- Ernie Calverley
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
Are you drunk?
I literally said “they just recently changed to a 4 team conference tourney.”
No conferences award the AQ to regular season champ anymore.
However, it is not mandatory to have a conference tourney.
You’re like talking to a wall man.
Go Rhody
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- Ernie Calverley
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
And if you want to get technical, teams moving up from D2 in their probation phase that win their conference tourney do not get the auto bid.
That goes to the other team who made the final or regular season champ, I’m not sure which one.
Go Rhody
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- Frank Keaney
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
You got that right. Absolutely
I am talking to the thickest wall on this message board.
Fact is my commentary was about the A10
You took the liberty to expand it beyond the A10 which I have no idea why……oh wait, yes I do - to create something out of nothing.
Fact is all conferences award the AQ to the Post Season winner. Can they chose to award it differently? No idea, don’t care, it’s completely irrelevant since it doesn’t happen any other way.
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- Cuttino Mobley
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
Here's your receipt. See the last part of the last paragraph (g) " conference's process to determine the automatic qualifier"
https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/bylaw?ruleId=9206
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- Frank Keaney
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
cough, no one cares...cough, cough...RhodyKyle wrote: ↑4 months agoHere's your receipt. See the last part of the last paragraph (g) " conference's process to determine the automatic qualifier"
https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/bylaw?ruleId=9206
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- Frank Keaney
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
In this era of free agency, 4 years seems to be an arbitrary timeframe, not a developmental one.Rhody_NYCT wrote: ↑4 months ago Some people just don’t understand. Nobody is saying that you can’t rebuild in a year or two. It’s just not the norm. When you hire a coach for a rebuild, you should be prepared to give that coach 4 years to get the job done.
To be really good, I don't know that you need to actually develop players now...
With all the player movement now, you could suck for 3 years, hit the portalpalooza lottery for year 4 and do a 180.
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- Cuttino Mobley
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
Those two sure did - they went back and forth for quite a while. Back to coming up with goofy acronyms and nicknames.NYGFan_Section208 wrote: ↑4 months agocough, no one cares...cough, cough...RhodyKyle wrote: ↑4 months agoHere's your receipt. See the last part of the last paragraph (g) " conference's process to determine the automatic qualifier"
https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/bylaw?ruleId=9206
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- Frank Keaney
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
Actually I only said winning the A10 is the only way to get the AQ in response to PMMM comment to me.RhodyKyle wrote: ↑4 months agoThose two sure did - they went back and forth for quite a while. Back to coming up with goofy acronyms and nicknames.NYGFan_Section208 wrote: ↑4 months agocough, no one cares...cough, cough...RhodyKyle wrote: ↑4 months ago
Here's your receipt. See the last part of the last paragraph (g) " conference's process to determine the automatic qualifier"
https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/bylaw?ruleId=9206
Then it went for some weird reason to how I was wrong in that Conferences do not have to award the AQ to the Conference winner - the Conference can chose to award to the Regular Season Conf winner (not the Tournament winner. Not sure what that has to do with anything in the at hand discussion.
But you can continue the discussion with Rhody 15 with the NCAA bylaws or whatever. Pretty weird stuff.
Maybe the Battleaxe is thinking of making a change? Nah, note to self - she doesn’t change anything. We are safe.
It's also the only way to qualify for the NCAA Tournament in a 1-Bid Conference.
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- Frank Keaney
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
Nope. Nobody cares is right.RhodyKyle wrote: ↑4 months agoThose two sure did - they went back and forth for quite a while. Back to coming up with goofy acronyms and nicknames.NYGFan_Section208 wrote: ↑4 months agocough, no one cares...cough, cough...RhodyKyle wrote: ↑4 months ago
Here's your receipt. See the last part of the last paragraph (g) " conference's process to determine the automatic qualifier"
https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/bylaw?ruleId=9206
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- Frenchy Tomlin
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Re: the ARCH-itect !
"Archie literally has no one from the previous regime in year two." Ish left for the reasons stated, all others from season one were pushed into the portal. This year. filled with DAWGs, but not in sync because everyone is new and possibly personal agendas. Winning may not matter to some players, but their stats help determine where they go next. I'm not sure there is any pressure on Archie....he is wealthy, and this stint will net him $5M+ regardless of success. He already won the lottery! Let's see the kind of relationships he builds with players or not. I may be naive, but the end of season wins and losses do not matter as much as whether loyalty and trust have been built with this team. if there is a mass exodus or players are pushed out again, then every season will be a transfer portal crap shoot. Afterall, Archie didnt want Ish to leave. He may not want Cam or Fuchs to leave, but as some sports announcers have stated, they could play for any A10 or a step higher.
Cheers
Coach N Duke