A10 Outlook for 2022-23

[Jersey77]

As bad as things have been here, and they've been bad, relatively speaking things might even be worse at UMass. Yeah, they're better than us, but not appreciably so, and it seems like Frank Martin tried to accelerate the rebuild compared to Archie by bringing in more experienced players

Not sure I agree with you, 02.
Hard for me to think, it may be worse at UMass.

Frank Martin did add some immediate impact players, and he also walked into a better situation.
But the cupboards won't exactly be bare for them going forward.

Fernandes and Weeks do have an additional year of eligibility if they elect to use it.
Center D. Dominguez has 2 years left.
Transfer (F) Matt Cross still has 2 years eligibility left.
SC transfer center Leveque has another year left, if he uses it.
4* top 50 PG Diggins has 2 more years.
Plus, little used but former 4* forward G. Thompson is only a sophomore.

Their 3 true freshmen have had much more of an impact than ours so far.
K. Thompson, Luis who was a borderline 3*/4*, and (F/C) Gapare consensus 4* and 247 top 50.

In addition, Martin does have 4/5 recruits already committed for '23
Obviously the #'s will have to work themselves out.

I thought UMass would be better than us this season, but probably finish in the middle or lower half of the conference.

[bigappleram]

Only thing you missed was the part this weekend when Frank said he would fight any of their fans who talked negatively about his players on social media. Frank's persona clash with the Umass audience on twitter will remain interesting throughout his tenure.

[Blue Man]

As bad as things have been here, and they've been bad, relatively speaking things might even be worse at UMass. Yeah, they're better than us, but not appreciably so, and it seems like Frank Martin tried to accelerate the rebuild compared to Archie by bringing in more experienced players

But remember that there was a contingent on this board talking about how much "better" Martin was doing with his "win now" transfers. Here they are, 2-5 in the conference with a win column full of paper tigers.

Don't forget how much better Frank Martin is/was at marketing than Archie! Look at all the bodies in the seats that go to the Mullins Center! *checks notes*

vs URI 5k (53%, lot of URI fans, biggest rival on schedule, highest attendance OF THE YEAR)
vs La Salle 2900 (30%)
vs St Louis 3400 (36%)
vs Dartmouth 2200 (24%)
vs UML 3700 (39%)
vs Albany 3100 (33%)
vs Towson 4400 (47%)
vs CCSU 4900 (52%)

Wow! I'm sooooooo jealous. Imagine being the "win now" guy to not actually win now. Give me the Archie train. We'll be good when we're good.

[RhowdyRam02]

As bad as things have been here, and they've been bad, relatively speaking things might even be worse at UMass. Yeah, they're better than us, but not appreciably so, and it seems like Frank Martin tried to accelerate the rebuild compared to Archie by bringing in more experienced players

But remember that there was a contingent on this board talking about how much "better" Martin was doing with his "win now" transfers. Here they are, 2-5 in the conference with a win column full of paper tigers.

That's exactly what I was getting at. Yes, he can bring pretty much everyone back, but he took a win now approach to the players he brought in and they're slated for the PIGgy game just like us

[Jersey77]

As bad as things have been here, and they've been bad, relatively speaking things might even be worse at UMass. Yeah, they're better than us, but not appreciably so, and it seems like Frank Martin tried to accelerate the rebuild compared to Archie by bringing in more experienced players

But remember that there was a contingent on this board talking about how much "better" Martin was doing with his "win now" transfers. Here they are, 2-5 in the conference with a win column full of paper tigers.

Don't forget how much better Frank Martin is/was at marketing than Archie! Look at all the bodies in the seats that go to the Mullins Center! *checks notes*

vs URI 5k (53%, lot of URI fans, biggest rival on schedule, highest attendance OF THE YEAR)
vs La Salle 2900 (30%)
vs St Louis 3400 (36%)
vs Dartmouth 2200 (24%)
vs UML 3700 (39%)
vs Albany 3100 (33%)
vs Towson 4400 (47%)
vs CCSU 4900 (52%)

Wow! I'm sooooooo jealous. Imagine being the "win now" guy to not actually win now. Give me the Archie train. We'll be good when we're good.

I think all of us are very happy we were able to land Archie and I am optimistic about some of the young players that he brought in.

But with all that said, I still can't diminish what Martin has done in building his roster at UMass.

[bigappleram]

This data confirms what our eyes can see. Ish is playing at or fringe all conf level (has been less efficient of late) and everyone else besides Bray really struggles to score the ball.

[bigappleram]

As bad as things have been here, and they've been bad, relatively speaking things might even be worse at UMass. Yeah, they're better than us, but not appreciably so, and it seems like Frank Martin tried to accelerate the rebuild compared to Archie by bringing in more experienced players

But remember that there was a contingent on this board talking about how much "better" Martin was doing with his "win now" transfers. Here they are, 2-5 in the conference with a win column full of paper tigers.

Don't forget how much better Frank Martin is/was at marketing than Archie! Look at all the bodies in the seats that go to the Mullins Center! *checks notes*

vs URI 5k (53%, lot of URI fans, biggest rival on schedule, highest attendance OF THE YEAR)
vs La Salle 2900 (30%)
vs St Louis 3400 (36%)
vs Dartmouth 2200 (24%)
vs UML 3700 (39%)
vs Albany 3100 (33%)
vs Towson 4400 (47%)
vs CCSU 4900 (52%)

Wow! I'm sooooooo jealous. Imagine being the "win now" guy to not actually win now. Give me the Archie train. We'll be good when we're good.

On paper they have a much more talented roster this year. And 2 of their FR (Luis and Gapare) have looked much better than our true FR thus far. They shouldn’t be 2-5 in league that’s a failure on Frank but I doubt they end up in the Pig game.

[bigappleram]

As bad as things have been here, and they've been bad, relatively speaking things might even be worse at UMass. Yeah, they're better than us, but not appreciably so, and it seems like Frank Martin tried to accelerate the rebuild compared to Archie by bringing in more experienced players

But remember that there was a contingent on this board talking about how much "better" Martin was doing with his "win now" transfers. Here they are, 2-5 in the conference with a win column full of paper tigers.

Don't forget how much better Frank Martin is/was at marketing than Archie! Look at all the bodies in the seats that go to the Mullins Center! *checks notes*

vs URI 5k (53%, lot of URI fans, biggest rival on schedule, highest attendance OF THE YEAR)
vs La Salle 2900 (30%)
vs St Louis 3400 (36%)
vs Dartmouth 2200 (24%)
vs UML 3700 (39%)
vs Albany 3100 (33%)
vs Towson 4400 (47%)
vs CCSU 4900 (52%)

Wow! I'm sooooooo jealous. Imagine being the "win now" guy to not actually win now. Give me the Archie train. We'll be good when we're good.

I personally hated Martin taking to Twitter preseason it was clear that would backfire at the first moment of adversity. Cbb coaches should use Twitter to pump up new recruit signings and thank fans for showing up. Besides that they should stay off social. Much more prefer the social media presence (or lack thereof) of Archie over that.

[McRam]

I thing Florida Atlantic makes sense.. At least the name fits.

[McRam]

If we have Florida Atlantic we can then add Florida Gulf Coast since Allegiant has cheap flights from Providence to Fort Myers’s..

[Jdrums#3]

Isn’t FAU going to the AAC next season? Football motivated decision.

Btw, it appears to be a down year in mbb for the AAC this year. I saw yesterday that Bracketology has them pegged for 2 bids. Fwiw, they had the NBE with 4 bids and only listed multi bid conf’s. Of course, the A10 was not listed among the multi-bid conf’s.

I wonder how many bids the P5 will suck up this year?

[Jersey77]

Isn’t FAU going to the AAC next season? Football motivated decision.

Btw, it appears to be a down year in mbb for the AAC this year. I saw yesterday that Bracketology has them pegged for 2 bids. Fwiw, they had the NBE with 4 bids and only listed multi bid conf’s. Of course, the A10 was not listed among the multi-bid conf’s.

I wonder how many bids the P5 will suck up this year?

Probably too many again.
Any team with a losing conference record should be disqualified from consideration. IMO
They need to earn their way in, they already have all the advantages of being in the P5.

[KevanBoyles]

This data confirms what our eyes can see. Ish is playing at or fringe all conf level (has been less efficient of late) and everyone else besides Bray really struggles to score the ball.

Malik has been my biggest disappointment.

[SGreenwell]

This data confirms what our eyes can see. Ish is playing at or fringe all conf level (has been less efficient of late) and everyone else besides Bray really struggles to score the ball.

Malik has been my biggest disappointment.

I think he's been about what I expected. He's a role player. Bad teams don't really have much use for role players, because on bad teams role players are always asked to do too much. He's probably a hustle-and-defense guy that comes off the bench on a good team. (He has one season where he shot 37.8 percent from 3, and the others are all well below that, so it's hard to call him a 3-and-D guy.)

[Jersey77]

This data confirms what our eyes can see. Ish is playing at or fringe all conf level (has been less efficient of late) and everyone else besides Bray really struggles to score the ball.

Malik has been my biggest disappointment.

I think he's been about what I expected. He's a role player. Bad teams don't really have much use for role players, because on bad teams role players are always asked to do too much. He's probably a hustle-and-defense guy that comes off the bench on a good team. (He has one season where he shot 37.8 percent from 3, and the others are all well below that, so it's hard to call him a 3-and-D guy.)

He is also scoring about the same as last season.
His rebounding is up a little and also leading the team at 6.4.
Yeah SG, he is about what I expected also.

[KingstonLane]

This data confirms what our eyes can see. Ish is playing at or fringe all conf level (has been less efficient of late) and everyone else besides Bray really struggles to score the ball.

Malik has been my biggest disappointment.

I think he's been about what I expected. He's a role player. Bad teams don't really have much use for role players, because on bad teams role players are always asked to do too much. He's probably a hustle-and-defense guy that comes off the bench on a good team. (He has one season where he shot 37.8 percent from 3, and the others are all well below that, so it's hard to call him a 3-and-D guy.)

Exactly. He would have been great in a Stan Robinson like role. Stan was 7th on the team in minutes his Jr year and 4th his Sr year

Malik is 2nd on the team in minutes. Lack of talent

[bigappleram]

I would hope Weston eats a lot of those Malik minutes moving into last 6 weeks of season. And I really hope he continues to develop. That foul line pull up J last game was sweet. Can we get 10 more of those per game

[ramster]

Isn’t FAU going to the AAC next season? Football motivated decision.

Btw, it appears to be a down year in mbb for the AAC this year. I saw yesterday that Bracketology has them pegged for 2 bids. Fwiw, they had the NBE with 4 bids and only listed multi bid conf’s. Of course, the A10 was not listed among the multi-bid conf’s.

I wonder how many bids the P5 will suck up this year?

Maybe 2 bids in Bracketology but UCF is among the “last teams out” which would give AAC 3 teams. Houston has been #1 Ranked so a Conference can’t get much better than that, and Memphis is the 2nd team in Bracketology and owns a healthy NET ranking

Cincinnati, Houston and UCF all leave the AAC with Charlotte, FAU, North Texas, Rice, UAB and UTSA all joining from C-USA
Florida Atlantic is ranked #18 NET so a nice addition joining AAC.

14 of the 15 teams in the new alignment play FBS Football.

[McRam]

Isn’t FAU going to the AAC next season? Football motivated decision.

Btw, it appears to be a down year in mbb for the AAC this year. I saw yesterday that Bracketology has them pegged for 2 bids. Fwiw, they had the NBE with 4 bids and only listed multi bid conf’s. Of course, the A10 was not listed among the multi-bid conf’s.

I wonder how many bids the P5 will suck up this year?

Did not know that. Thks

[bigappleram]

Data confirming what we have all seen. Ish has been great.

[Blue Man]

Data confirming what we have all seen. Ish has been great.

Ish has been great. He's exactly where he should be - on the border of being 1st team all conference. Where the hell is Bray?

I know this isn't the official conference, but it would be on brand since the conference award voters blow ass, and they will always. When URI would get burned in the past - like NBA player Xavier Munford who was 5th in the conference scoring, averaging almost 17ppg, and didn't make ANY all-conference awards - i said "eh, we weren't a good team they're rewarding good players on good teams, we'll get our due when we're good."

Well then we were the BEST team in the conference - our player with the conference's highest defensive rating, highest defensive box +/-, and highest in defensive win shares lost DPOY to a player who wasn't even top 10 in any of those categories. This league's award system is bullshit and it always has been. They are morons who I wouldn't trust to park my car in a mall parking lot at 2am on a Sunday. I wish them nothing but inconveniences on all their travel days.

How is Brayon not ANYWHERE on this board!? ESPN only ranks total stats - and overall he's averaging 14.5ppg, good enough for 15th in the conference, 9th among guards for the whole season. I thought conference awards reflected conference play specifically?

If that's the case - Bray is averaging 15.1ppg, Dae Dae Grant is averaging 11.6 ppg in conference. They average similar minutes a game. Bray has a better A/TO and more assists. A similar steal rate. Dae Dae is 3rd team and someone is huffing enough paint to believe that Bray isn't a top 25 player in this conference?!?!

This is why nerds are ruining sports. It's not all an equation you virgins. They use this "U-Rate" scale based on some murky advanced metrics that I couldn't find any explanation for.

Use your eyeballs. Watch basketball. And I hate the "no one can watch all that basketball" argument because...while there's only so many hours in a day...maybe don't make ranking lists? Especially lazy ones where you just put a bunch of metrics in the computer and you just lay out what the computer tells you?

[SGreenwell]

Freeman's averaging more points solely because of his role on this team - He's shooting a pretty bad 37.2 percent, but he needs to shoot more because we don't have a better option beyond Ish. He might deserve third team consideration if he continues to improve, as he has the past few games. But I don't think his raw PPG are that compelling of an argument.

[bigappleram]

Bray is high usage low efficiency right now...the eyes and the data show that.
If he can go from volume scorer to efficient scorer while being a playmaker then he will deserve rightful consideration.
37/35/69 slash line isn't all conference worthy. He has that ceiling for sure but I don't think he's there yet.

[Jdrums#3]

SG and BAR make good arguments and the metrics have value but, I lean towards Blue Man regarding metrics.

Just the idea that this team needs Bray to do things that could be or are a detriment to his metrics gives me pause. For me personally, I need a lot of context with the metrics. The more,the better. That’s probably my age showing plus my fan bias creeping in, I’ll admit.

KB helps keep my gears turning. Good stuff to chew on between games. Carry on.

[Blue Man]

SG and BAR make good arguments and the metrics have value but, I lean towards Blue Man regarding metrics.

Just the idea that this team needs Bray to do things that could be or are a detriment to his metrics gives me pause. For me personally, I need a lot of context with the metrics. The more,the better. That’s probably my age showing plus my fan bias creeping in, I’ll admit.

KB helps keep my gears turning. Good stuff to chew on between games. Carry on.

Metrics don't bring in a lot of other factors - like how many open shots has Bray created that were missed? Assists that weren't converted? How many times does the defense collapse on him for a turnover because Martin/Bassy are outside and the report on them is that they're not good shooters?

The nerdification of sports is the WORST.

Plus, these metrics they're pulling reflect the full season - not the conference metrics.

Just to use Dae Dae as an example. In conference play he had 3 duds - 8, 3, and 4 points playing 33+ mins and 3 losses. Bray had one dud scoring 9 in 26 mins.

My issue is less with Dae Dae - because arguing about who should or shouldn't be a 3rd teamer is splitting hairs. It's with the fact that they're blindly letting the computer tell them who's good at basketball. I don't care what your metrics are. Anyone watching basketball, especially the last 4 games where Bray has averaged 19 points, cannot say there are 25 players in this conference, 9 of them guards, better than Brayon Freeman.

[reef]

Good to see Ish on the 2nd team , if he works hard in the off-season then 1st team next year baby !!

[bigappleram]

By the metrics that site used (which you can argue the merits of) he is playing as a fringe First teamer this year. He was the highest rated of the 2nd teamers. It just reinforces how impressive his play has been this year. Besides the 6 rebounds per game from the guard spot what also stands out is how consistent he has been...double figures in 20 of 21 games. Over 20 in 5 of those games.

[RhowdyRam02]

Early list of new nicknames for George Washington. There's a lot of bad here, so much bad that I'm thinking this is a leak to make the real nickname look better in comparison when it comes out

[Jdrums#3]

What? No velvet fog?

[ramster]

4 Teams get A+ for last week. St Mary’s, VCU, Arizona and Houston

VCU A+ Time to give the A-10's top dog its proper due in this space. VCU handled business with two gigantic road wins this week over Davidson and Saint Louis to open up a 1.5-game lead in the regular-season race. Mike Rhoades' team consistently finds ways to win close games.



https://www.cbssports.com/college-baske ... port-card/

[Rhodymob05]

Half of those are still associated with “colonials” , the other half doesn’t make sense lol. Still think this exercise if dumb.

[RF1]

Fordham has now officially surpassed Dayton in men's basketball attendance. The crowd for the Bronx Rams home win over UMass on Wednesday, their 17th game at Rose Hill Gym this year, increased their season YTD total home attendance to 15,173 (average 893). Fordham's total attendance has now exceeded that of the Dayton single game average of 13,407.

[Rhody15]

Fordham has now officially surpassed Dayton in men's basketball attendance. The crowd for the Bronx Rams home win over UMass on Wednesday, their 17th game at Rose Hill Gym this year, increased their season YTD total home attendance to 15,173 (average 893). Fordham's total attendance has now exceeded that of the Dayton single game average of 13,407.

We still taking shots at Fordham at their attendance/gym when they sold the place out, are 4th in conference, and 19-5?

[bigappleram]

Yes. Yes we are.

[RhodyKyle]

Fordham has now officially surpassed Dayton in men's basketball attendance. The crowd for the Bronx Rams home win over UMass on Wednesday, their 17th game at Rose Hill Gym this year, increased their season YTD total home attendance to 15,173 (average 893). Fordham's total attendance has now exceeded that of the Dayton single game average of 13,407.

You had us in the first half...

[RF1]

Fordham has now officially surpassed Dayton in men's basketball attendance. The crowd for the Bronx Rams home win over UMass on Wednesday, their 17th game at Rose Hill Gym this year, increased their season YTD total home attendance to 15,173 (average 893). Fordham's total attendance has now exceeded that of the Dayton single game average of 13,407.

We still taking shots at Fordham at their attendance/gym when they sold the place out, are 4th in conference, and 19-5?

Yes - they are having their best ever season in the A-10 since joining some 30 years ago and they are only averaging 893 persons per game in the largest city in the USA. That average is some 500 LESS than the URI WOMEN"S team draws to its games in the village of Kingston.

[Jdrums#3]

Hopefully, the Fordham administration is paying attention to the on court success this time, wakes up and fully commits to being a consistent A10 basketball championship potential contender versus settling for mediocrity or worse.

I didn’t say they will.

Maybe the Commish can vigorously contend to the Fordham adm - if she hasn’t done so repeatedly in the past - that it is to their benefit to do so Maybe call in some help from her NCAA relationships to help boost her chances of convincing them.

[reef]

I’m surprised @ Fordhams record despite their poor schedule, not a laughing stock anymore @ least

[Jdrums#3]

I’m surprised @ Fordhams record despite their poor schedule, not a laughing stock anymore @ least

Hopefully, they sustain it this time, Reef.

Improved A10 competition should benefit Rhody and other bb members. Iron sharpens iron. Then, the conf as a whole can win more ooc games eventually.

[RF1]

I’m surprised @ Fordhams record despite their poor schedule, not a laughing stock anymore @ least

While their attendance and support is poor, they do have a decent team. They may have lost in Kingston but they have recorded several A-10 road wins. Even with a record now at 19-5, they probably still won't even get near an NIT bid with their NET ranking of 132. Even though in recent years most A-10 teams don't accept CBI invites, I would not have an issue with Fordham doing so given their dearth of much postseason play the last 30 years.

[NYGFan_Section208]

Fordham has now officially surpassed Dayton in men's basketball attendance. The crowd for the Bronx Rams home win over UMass on Wednesday, their 17th game at Rose Hill Gym this year, increased their season YTD total home attendance to 15,173 (average 893). Fordham's total attendance has now exceeded that of the Dayton single game average of 13,407.

We still taking shots at Fordham at their attendance/gym when they sold the place out, are 4th in conference, and 19-5?

...per ESPN, they didn't 'sell the place out', they had 1,800 vs a cap of 3,200....given the record....sad.

[ramster]

Fordham has now officially surpassed Dayton in men's basketball attendance. The crowd for the Bronx Rams home win over UMass on Wednesday, their 17th game at Rose Hill Gym this year, increased their season YTD total home attendance to 15,173 (average 893). Fordham's total attendance has now exceeded that of the Dayton single game average of 13,407.

We still taking shots at Fordham at their attendance/gym when they sold the place out, are 4th in conference, and 19-5?

...per ESPN, they didn't 'sell the place out', they had 1,800 vs a cap of 3,200....given the record....sad.

What happened is that all seats were sold - so it is described as sold out prior to game day. The lower reported number is because students not showing up for free.

[NYGFan_Section208]

We still taking shots at Fordham at their attendance/gym when they sold the place out, are 4th in conference, and 19-5?

...per ESPN, they didn't 'sell the place out', they had 1,800 vs a cap of 3,200....given the record....sad.

What happened is that all seats were sold - so it is described as sold out prior to game day. The lower reported number is because students not showing up for free.

Sadder?

[ramster]

...per ESPN, they didn't 'sell the place out', they had 1,800 vs a cap of 3,200....given the record....sad.

What happened is that all seats were sold - so it is described as sold out prior to game day. The lower reported number is because students not showing up for free.

Sadder?

Bryant averaging 861 for the season

I know the 100 level seats for the URI at Fordham game were all sold out 2 weeks ago. I got mine but still not 100% sure whether I will go to the URI Fordham game or the URI Dayton WBB Senior night game. See how things play out.

[RhowdyRam02]

Fordham has now officially surpassed Dayton in men's basketball attendance. The crowd for the Bronx Rams home win over UMass on Wednesday, their 17th game at Rose Hill Gym this year, increased their season YTD total home attendance to 15,173 (average 893). Fordham's total attendance has now exceeded that of the Dayton single game average of 13,407.

We still taking shots at Fordham at their attendance/gym when they sold the place out, are 4th in conference, and 19-5?

Yes, we are taking shots at a school who refuses to invest in facilities and is only bringing in 1808 fans when they have their place banged out. You act like selling out an arena that can currently only hold 1808 matters. Hell, our women's team is getting 416 more fans per game than their men's team. Fordham is not an A10 school. Never has been, and based on their administrative commitment or lack thereof, never will be

[RhowdyRam02]

...per ESPN, they didn't 'sell the place out', they had 1,800 vs a cap of 3,200....given the record....sad.

What happened is that all seats were sold - so it is described as sold out prior to game day. The lower reported number is because students not showing up for free.

Sadder?

Sadder, more pathetic, it's all the same

[NYGFan_Section208]

What happened is that all seats were sold - so it is described as sold out prior to game day. The lower reported number is because students not showing up for free.

Sadder?

Sadder, more pathetic, it's all the same

[Rhody15]

Fordham has now officially surpassed Dayton in men's basketball attendance. The crowd for the Bronx Rams home win over UMass on Wednesday, their 17th game at Rose Hill Gym this year, increased their season YTD total home attendance to 15,173 (average 893). Fordham's total attendance has now exceeded that of the Dayton single game average of 13,407.

We still taking shots at Fordham at their attendance/gym when they sold the place out, are 4th in conference, and 19-5?

Yes, we are taking shots at a school who refuses to invest in facilities and is only bringing in 1808 fans when they have their place banged out. You act like selling out an arena that can currently only hold 1808 matters. Hell, our women's team is getting 416 more fans per game than their men's team. Fordham is not an A10 school. Never has been, and based on their administrative commitment or lack thereof, never will be

Feel like it’s odd (just for this season) to call out any school that is better than us / higher in the standings than we are.

[Jdrums#3]

I interpret Rhowdy’s post as applying to historic results of their program and therefore, noteworthy. I don’t see why an outlier season should indicate oddness.

Of course, I could be wrong in my interpretation.

[RhowdyRam02]

We still taking shots at Fordham at their attendance/gym when they sold the place out, are 4th in conference, and 19-5?

Yes, we are taking shots at a school who refuses to invest in facilities and is only bringing in 1808 fans when they have their place banged out. You act like selling out an arena that can currently only hold 1808 matters. Hell, our women's team is getting 416 more fans per game than their men's team. Fordham is not an A10 school. Never has been, and based on their administrative commitment or lack thereof, never will be

Feel like it’s odd (just for this season) to call out any school that is better than us / higher in the standings than we are.

Ok, their inflated record is better than ours and they're better than normal in the worst version of the conference most of us have seen. But you specifically couldn't believe someone would dare besmirch Rose Hill Gym and Fordham's attendance, which even this year are the liquid shits. Rose Hill Gym is not a suitable venue for Atlantic 10 basketball and their attendance is worse than our women's attendance. So yeah, they're better than normal and better than us, but they still deserve scorn and mocking in certain areas