Tougher to rebuild circa 2012 versus 2001?

[RF1]

Tougher to rebuild circa 2012 verus 2001?

Is it more difficult to rebuild a basketball program now than it was just over ten years ago? Hurley inherited a program that was in a big mess in 2012. He struggled in Year 1 and it looks like that will be repated in Year 2. Contrast that to the situation back in 2001 when Jim Baron took over after the Jerry D debacle. Baron had a rough first year as was expected. He however shocked everyone in Year 2 with an unexpected 20 win season making the 2nd round of the NIT.

Was it easier then for Baron to turn things around? Is it now more difficult for such a turn around and should fans be more patient?

The situations have some similarities.
2001 – Jim Baron inherits a trainwreck of a program from Jerry D. Two back to back 20 loss seasons prior to coming here. Lot of player issues and turnover. NCAA probation. 20 loss season in Baron’s first year but games more competitive.

2012 – Dan Hurley inherits a program at its lowest ebb in a decade. Preceding season had 20+ losses. Lot of player turnover, misconduct, and academic issues. Threat of APR infraction hanging over the program. Hurley makes the team much more competitive in Year 1. Gets some top recruits. Program however does not seem to improve on the floor in Year 2.

One could argue that Baron had some advantages when he arrived that Dan Hurley did/does not have:
Program just a few years removed from national relevance
Ryan Center opened in 2nd year
A-10 possibly not as competitive

Are we expecting too much from Dan Hurley too soon at this time? Are things more difficult for him to turn it around at this point in time?

[URIGONZO]

Interesting points RF1. The A-10 was pretty good when the RC opened. Xavier and Dayton, St. Joes and Temple etc. The 2nd year the RC was open, URI beat 5 teams that ended up going to the tournament, and gave St. Joes one hell of a scare as the number 1 team in the country. I also think Baron had some better players at that stage than Hurley does with his current guys (not saying they can't develop to end up being better, but as of right now, Baron had better talent). Dawan Robinson and Brian Woodward come to mind.

That doesn't mean Hurley's guys can't develop and achieve more success by the end of their careers, but I give the nod to Baron.

[rodfromcranston]

Baron had a HUGE advantage that Hurley didn't have.
Brian Woodward, Lazare Andingono, and Howard Smith.
Who did Hurley have? Nik, Powell, Malone, and Brooks.
Woodward was better than all of those combined, and the other two with him,
former the cornerstone of that team, along with the instant impact of
Dustin Hellenga
There was no such thing as APR in 2001, which severely limits who Hurley can bring in.
Also, CFL had been a head coach for well over a decade when he took the URI job.
Dan Hurley is a work in progress, himself. He inherited a program that was irrelevant for
15 years. CFL inherited one two years from national prominence, an A-10 crown, a top NBA
pick and another playing very well in the NBA, an Elite 8 the year before, and an NCAA the year before that.
Let it be noted, that CFL followed up his second and third year, with a 20 loss season, followed by a .500 year.
That's not building a program, it's building a roller coaster.

[URIGONZO]

I still wonder what that team would have been like if Dawan didn't go down in Baron's 4th year, he was playing GREAT before his injury.

And yes Rod, Baron did have all kinds of advantages, including the fact that the school had just opened a beautiful on-campus arena. I don't think the Ryan Center still has the recruiting cache that it did 10 years ago.

[section(105)]

If the degree of difficulty in rebuilding includes considering the fans heightened expectations and thirst for dancing; I would say Coach Hurley has the tougher task because the years between NCAA drinks he inherited is greater than JB 's.

[SGreenwell]

Hm, interesting question. I think for any sports league, the level of competition always gets tougher as time goes on - there is a tendency for programs to emulate other programs that have experienced success. For example, it was easier to dominate the NBA in the 1960s and 1970s, and the same with any other league you look at.

However, I also think it's easier to get to .500 than ever before. I mean, even with the dire straits the program was in when Hurley took it over, in his second year he has a chance at going .500. I think expectations were unrealistically high heading into the year, maybe from both Hurley and fans' perspectives, but to an outside observer they would still see the program as trending upward from Baron's final year to Hurley's first and second years.

[NJ03]

Here's the main difference. Look at the recruits Baron brought in his first few years
02:
Bam Harmon
Jon Clark

03:
JR Moore

04:
Will Daniels
Jon Lucky
Parfait Bitee

So Barons first two years on the full time recruiting trail were a complete joke. He started gaining a little momentum with Daniels and Lucky (highly touted even though he was a bust) and a surprise player in Bitee. After that in 05 he got a major boost from his son and Seawright who developed into a solid forward and then in 06 had his best class of Delroy, Cothran, Ulmer. So it took Baron a full 3 years to get a quality player. In Hurley's first year he got a great player in EC and a player with a huge upside in Hassan. Granted he went a little trigger happy with the transfers but he had spots to fill and took a chance with some slightly overhyped (although I still have faith in Gil and Biggie) players. The next few years of recruiting remain to be seen but in the early stages Hurley def has the edge.

[Rhody72]

I don't contest any of this. Still, I don't cut Hurley any slack. He got hired to turn this program around quickly. We had a three year goal to get back to the NCAAs when DH was hired. This thread is beginning to sound like all the excuses the swabs gave for JB. I'll have none of this. If we don't have a big-time program by next season, Thor should express his disappointment to DH in his post-season evaluation, and let him know continued mediocrity will not be tolerated or rewarded. URI Athletics is drowning in red ink and this will continue until men's basketball is a winner.

[rodfromcranston]

I see the main difference being, CFL was content to stay here forever,
underplay all expectations, and make going to an NIT, his Nirvana.
My conversations with Hurley showed me a man who is driven almost to
his own detriment, to get things done.
He may have overestimated how easily it could be done, due to his quick turnaround at
Wagner.
He may also not be the greatest judge of talent, which is a little troubling.
While the jury is still out on him, I think failure is not an option for him,
in his mind.
How recruiting goes this spring, will tell us plenty about the future.

[RIFan]

Recruiting is the lifeblood of college sports, and it is a bit concerning that we are not sure how good our ~$700,000/year HC is at evaluating talent. Also, as others have stated...the loss of Bobby appears bigger than originally thought. They turned around Wagner...not just Dan.

[rambone 78]

I agree with both of you, the next 2 years of recruiting. and how the recruits pan out, will tell us a lot about how much success we'll have with Dan.

Of course EC and Hassan look like the real deal. The rest? Not so much.

[reef]

I am still pumped about DH and I am still optimistic he is the guy here to lead us back to the dance, I couldn't say that about CFL

[seanmc94]

DH is coming off JD and Baron. Plus the odds of getting an under the radar kid has shrunk; bc of AAU continuing to explode. DH will get the recruits and right kids to rebuild the program

[Keaney.Blue]

People have touched upon recruiting and I believe that's what helped mask Baron's inability to coach. Parfait, Will Daniels, Seawright, Ulmer, Cothran, and James developed into great players that buoyed this program. Pat Skerry and Lazare were big parts of that recruiting effort, and once those two left the cupboard was bare. Once the 2011 class left (Jones, Martell, Eaves, James) there was a huge leadership vacuum and people realized the wheels had fallen off the program.

I have confidence that Dan can bring in the right players and develop them. Player development is a huge focus of this coaching staff. This period is a road bump, we'll get to where we need to be.

[rambone 78]

Player development plays more of a role with incoming freshmen, obviously, than transfers or jucos.

That's what I'd like to see more of, freshmen, that is, going forward. Start working with them from day one of their college BB careers.

Enough with the "quick fixes". As we can see, that hasn't worked out quite so well with the current group, save maybe Biggie and X.

[rodfromcranston]

Pretty sure Gil will be a positive before it's all said and done.
So, that leaves Reischel with questions, so far. 3 out of 4 is pretty damned good.
Add X and it's 4 out of 5. Even better.

[Gonebarongone]

Pretty sure Gil will be a positive before it's all said and done.
So, that leaves Reischel with questions, so far. 3 out of 4 is pretty damned good.
Add X and it's 4 out of 5. Even better.

Four out of five what is the question. Starters on a tournament team? Rotation players on a tournament team? Dominant players on an eight win team? I think all these guys need to be knocked down one or two spots from the roles they play on the team. As I have said before, I think X could be a great third or fourth option on a top 25 team. Lead guy? No. We'll never know with X leaving after this year but we need leaps from EC and Martin. You can see the talent is there. Let Gil settle into a solid 3rd/4th option, etc. X and Gil just aren't good enough to carry a good team. EC and martin, I think they can eventually. As was said earlier, the monster trouble spot is this 2014 class. Hopefully, the spring signing period has a nice piece. No SG in 2014 and only a JUCO is a monster problem.

[rambone 78]

GBG, you know Dan is going to add a couple more for next year. How he does it is the question.

A SG is an absolute must, we all know that. It may come down to another transfer or juco or two. Dan has said that before.

Let's hope that if he does go the part timer route for next season, that the 2015-16 class is all freshmen. He and staff have plenty of time and choices, to make that class the really BIG one that this program needs. With any luck the APR issue is resolved by then too.

[Rhodymob05]

This current roster won't be in school forever. That's why we need players coming in asap

[Blue Man]

2 years removed from 3 straight NCAA appearances, 2 NBA stars, a brand new facility - NCAA sanctions or not - there was still an increased NCAA payout coming in, and a lot of money being committed to the program.

01 was much easier.