"Juan Bid", The Fall of the A10

[Jersey77]

This is... not great.

See - stuff like this is why I feel like there needs to be a change in leadership.

While the A10 doesn't have football - being that far behind other irrelevant basketball only conferences in fan engagement is kind of disgusting.

Don't get too worked up over this.
Social accounts interaction, really!
Marketing/advertising tool for Skull Sparks
I am sure the BE isn't very worried at #24.

[Blue Man]

This is... not great.

See - stuff like this is why I feel like there needs to be a change in leadership.

While the A10 doesn't have football - being that far behind other irrelevant basketball only conferences in fan engagement is kind of disgusting.

Don't get too worked up over this.
Social accounts interaction, really!
Marketing/advertising tool for Skull Sparks
I am sure the BE isn't very worried at #24.

It's only going to become a bigger deal as we move forward.

I mean Ace is right, who cares about a conference performing as poorly as us, but online fan engagement matters.

I'm sure the Big East doesn't worry about fan engagement - but they don't have to. They have 5 ranked teams, are potentially sending 6 to the NCAAT, will be swimming in money and exposure, and all of those teams could wind up 2nd weekend teams. They also have one of the most lucrative TV contracts in the sport, split between only 10 members.

For the conferences that don't have that...yes, this matters. Eyeballs + fans = sponsor revenue. You're going to want to have something to sell to advertisers.

That Tchikou dunk and the alley oop from that Loyola kid should've been blowing up my ig feed. And that was just the game between the two worst teams in the conference.

Outside of the cold hard cash aspect, which will continue to become more important to conference members as we progress in the NIL world, but for a conference that had ONE OOC WIN this season - being able to sell your programs to get them into higher level pre-season tourneys, generating more interest definitely helps there.

So yes - this isn't a problem in a standalone sense, but it's symptomatic of a significantly larger issue across the board.

[Jersey77]

Blue Man aside from us turning things around, my biggest concern about our conference is for the top tier teams to start performing well.

I think the A10 has done well in adding some excellent coaches.
Also, the typical bottom feeders have stepped up their play.

[SmartyBarrett]

Unfurled put it best.

[Jersey77]

Unfurled put it best.

Unfurled should be more concerned about their team underperforming last season and losing in the quarterfinals of the A10T.
Also having their star players transferring out for their last season of eligibility.
On top of that having to replace their entire roster for 22-23.

But yeah, pay so much attention to social media interaction and its effect on the conference rather than the Bonnies finishing a disappointing 4th last season.

I understand in this day and age that this may have a place and does help in certain aspects.
But as far as recruiting, it still comes down to the staff and the program.
And as I said before, the conference's success depends on the performance of its teams and the school's investment in the program.

[NYGFan_Section208]

Unfurled put it best.

Unfurled should be more concerned about their team underperforming last season and losing in the quarterfinals of the A10T.
Also having their star players transferring out for their last season of eligibility.
On top of that having to replace their entire roster for 22-23.

But yeah, pay so much attention to social media interaction and its effect on the conference rather than the Bonnies finishing a disappointing 4th last season.

I understand in this day and age that this may have a place and does help in certain aspects.
But as far as recruiting, it still comes down to the staff and the program.
And as I said before, the conference's success depends on the performance of its teams and the school's investment in the program.

"lol...wut?"
-SBU fan

[Blue Man]

Unfurled put it best.

Unfurled should be more concerned about their team underperforming last season and losing in the quarterfinals of the A10T.
Also having their star players transferring out for their last season of eligibility.
On top of that having to replace their entire roster for 22-23.

But yeah, pay so much attention to social media interaction and its effect on the conference rather than the Bonnies finishing a disappointing 4th last season.

I understand in this day and age that this may have a place and does help in certain aspects.
But as far as recruiting, it still comes down to the staff and the program.
And as I said before, the conference's success depends on the performance of its teams and the school's investment in the program.

This is one of those cultural shifts that may be tougher to understand if you didn’t grow up with it. But today, it’s a big deal.

Literally Livvy Dunne is going to make $2M+ over her collegiate career because of social media.

Yea, being good matters - but especially at a school like this (and this conference), on-court success is fleeting. Staying in the conversation today matters potentially more than the on-court success when it comes to recruiting and scheduling games.

Christ I mean people convince themselves that playing FGCU is a good get based on the publicity generated by a couple upsets almost a decade ago.

Social media interaction matters. It’s a revenue stream, it helps sell your program to other teams and prospective students, it’s literally how the world works.

Poopooing something like this is forgivable if you’re a fan who graduated long before the internet, but if you’re in a leadership position in your conference and changing these metrics isn’t a top priority, you need to be fired.

[Jdrums#3]

BM, excellent post. Adapt and overcome

[Jersey77]

Unfurled put it best.

Unfurled should be more concerned about their team underperforming last season and losing in the quarterfinals of the A10T.
Also having their star players transferring out for their last season of eligibility.
On top of that having to replace their entire roster for 22-23.

But yeah, pay so much attention to social media interaction and its effect on the conference rather than the Bonnies finishing a disappointing 4th last season.

I understand in this day and age that this may have a place and does help in certain aspects.
But as far as recruiting, it still comes down to the staff and the program.
And as I said before, the conference's success depends on the performance of its teams and the school's investment in the program.

This is one of those cultural shifts that may be tougher to understand if you didn’t grow up with it. But today, it’s a big deal.

Literally Livvy Dunne is going to make $2M+ over her collegiate career because of social media.

Yea, being good matters - but especially at a school like this (and this conference), on-court success is fleeting. Staying in the conversation today matters potentially more than the on-court success when it comes to recruiting and scheduling games.

Christ I mean people convince themselves that playing FGCU is a good get based on the publicity generated by a couple upsets almost a decade ago.

Social media interaction matters. It’s a revenue stream, it helps sell your program to other teams and prospective students, it’s literally how the world works.

Poopooing something like this is forgivable if you’re a fan who graduated long before the internet, but if you’re in a leadership position in your conference and changing these metrics isn’t a top priority, you need to be fired.

Yeah Blue Man, probably a generation thing.
But I am sure the powers to be in the A10 and the member schools are doing what they can.

Still this doesn't keep me up at night worrying about the possible demise of the A10 due to Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook.

[Jdrums#3]

Sure, it doesn’t signify the demise of the conference, I agree with that sentiment. However, to me it is a red flag and troubling trend when combined with other red flags.

When no one pays attention to the “smaller”details that tells me that there is a laziness issue or, lack of caring issue or, resignation issue, for example.

With the attitude of only the big things matter, then eventually that leads to sustained mediocrity at best, imho.

[RhodyKyle]

I didn't dig into this so my post may be way off-base and ignorant. Is this only measuring the official conference account interactions or does it create some sort of composite score of all the individual member schools' interactions on their accounts? Like does me interacting with a rhodymbb tweet factor in or only a10mbb?

[PeterRamTime]

You have to put out content.

Look at any P5 conference and they put out content 24/7.

Classic games. Stats. News. They post quotes players and coaches say to generate arguments in the comment section. Stuff like that.

[Jdrums#3]

I just read a compelling article on-line in Heartland College Sports (heartlandcollegesports.com) about the Big 12 Commissioner’s potential interest in expanding their basketball members to max out revenue in what he believes is a very undervalued sport. The author speculates that there are 4 Big East programs in particular that could be targeted that fit the commissioner’s plan of adding major media markets for a national basketball conference - especially when considering that, according to the article - the BE media agreement is up for renewal in 24-25.

The 4 potential Big 12 targets - St. John’s (NYC), Nova (Philly), Georgetown (DC), DePaul (Chicago) - would substantially increase their revenue in the Big 12 compared to remaining in the BE.

If 4 BE teams leave for the Big 12 for basketball only, will the A10 be proactive: does this create an opportunity for the A10 to possibly merge with the remaining 7 BE programs but, not with every A10 team involved, by potentially creating a 20 team basketball only conf?

Or, is it more likely the A10 sits back and does nothing while the BE potentially poaches from the A10 once again?

Or, does the ACC swoop in to take the remaining 7 BE teams for basketball only (copying the Big 12) including UConn for basketball and football?

The Heartland College Sports article is very interesting. It was posted to the site on 2/22/23. It’s a quick read and very much worth checking out.

[Rhody72]

...
If 4 BE teams leave for the Big 12 for basketball only, will the A10 be proactive: does this create an opportunity for the A10 to possibly merge with the remaining 7 BE programs but, not with every A10 team involved, by potentially creating a 20 team basketball only conf?

Or, is it more likely the A10 sits back and does nothing while the BE potentially poaches from the A10 once again?
...

The A10 will take in 4 weaker programs from the geographical areas that they are losing programs. That's what a core group of A10 Lifer schools do.

[SmartyBarrett]

I didn't dig into this so my post may be way off-base and ignorant. Is this only measuring the official conference account interactions or does it create some sort of composite score of all the individual member schools' interactions on their accounts? Like does me interacting with a rhodymbb tweet factor in or only a10mbb?

No, not team accounts I don't believe. But any official Atlantic 10 account, which includes A10MBB, A10WBB, etc.

[bigappleram]

The sky is falling crowd won’t like this but the A10 final had bigger TV audience than the Big East final. Lots of reasons why but still a fun data point.

[RF1]

The Big East will eventually get squeezed out just like the A-10. It however will be able to put it off longer.

[bigappleram]

For all the lack of moves from the A10 leadership over the years their biggest boon was getting our championship game on CBS a few hours before selection Sunday. That’s a golden placement.

[Jdrums#3]

The Big East will eventually get squeezed out just like the A-10. It however will be able to put it off longer.

It’s possible.

But I also think it’s possible the BE could get picked apart if the Big 12 Commish follows through with expanding for basketball (because he sees basketball as a sport where revenue can be enhanced significantly as he is on record as saying the sport is undervalued as a revenue source). You know if he is thinking it then you can be sure the other P5’s are thinking the same thus making the BE a prime target (especially with the BE media contract due to expire next year) for the P5 vultures to pick apart.

[RF1]

For all the lack of moves from the A10 leadership over the years their biggest boon was getting our championship game on CBS a few hours before selection Sunday. That’s a golden placement.

Agreed. The day, time, and CBS network do provide a lot of eyeballs for the A-10.

[steviep123]

For all the lack of moves from the A10 leadership over the years their biggest boon was getting our championship game on CBS a few hours before selection Sunday. That’s a golden placement.

Agreed. The day, time, and CBS network do provide a lot of eyeballs for the A-10.

I'm wondering if the fact that the BE is on FS1 (championship on Fox) versus when the whole tourney was on ESPN has an effect.

[SmartyBarrett]

[reef]

Hmmm can’t say I’m surprised I’m sure big pay raise and P6 school

[SGreenwell]

I mean, it's partly a one-big league because VCU (5-4 in Q1 + Q2 games), Dayton (2-9) and St. Louis (3-9) all crapped the bed OOC. I hope that's Goodman editorializing a bit, otherwise it comes off like this for Rhoades.

[SmartyBarrett]

Yeah we know where the blame lies. My overall point is that the A-10 is looking less and less like a destination league for coaches until they turn things back around.

[jcru]

Don't hold your breath. The plane is going down and there is one parachute and 15 people fighting over it.

[bigappleram]

Yeah we know where the blame lies. My overall point is that the A-10 is looking less and less like a destination league for coaches until they turn things back around.

It’s never been a destination league even when we were multi bid.

[SmartyBarrett]

Yeah we know where the blame lies. My overall point is that the A-10 is looking less and less like a destination league for coaches until they turn things back around.

It’s never been a destination league even when we were multi bid.

For sure, I meant for like low-major coaches. NEC, America East, etc.

[reef]

Yeah somehow we need a good bounce back year from the A10, of back to back 1 bids that would be awful

[Jdrums#3]

Reef, I agree with you that the A10 needs to bounce back quickly.

Furthermore, I believe the A10 has much soul searching to do because there is a dichotomy at work: football dominant conferences vs basketball only (basketball dominant) conferences or P5 plus other BCS football level conferences vs the BE, A10 and other non-BCS football conferences with D1 bb.

So far, because of their financial position, size and resolve, the BE has been able to maintain its status despite the changing landscape. Whereas, imho, the A10 is struggling to figure things out with some programs trying to keep up and others not doing enough to keep up - which with 15 bb members is not surprising to me with the changes happening.

Fwiw, I am not sure the A10 model of 15 programs for a bb dominant conf works or is sustainable in this new bb reality. Too many programs to keep in line on a common goal and mission and too many schools that have little in common.

[reef]

Right now as it stands I think we get 1 bid next year too but it is still early but I will guess 1

[Blue Man]

Right now as it stands I think we get 1 bid next year too but it is still early but I will guess 1

Honestly - with the bounces of the ball. Those top teams weren't as far off as we think - just like we were on the wrong side of a lot of bounces in a ton of our losses.

Dayton and St Louis had 4 and 3 Q3/Q4 losses.

They probably could've gotten away with their lack of big wins had they just not blown those games. Just beat the bad teams.

It won't be that big a mountain to climb up to a multi-bid league again.

[Rhode_Island_Red]

It's going to be hard for the league in its current composition to return to the halcyon days of four to six bids every year. The league is too bloated, and given the NET formula (whatever it may be) the bottom half of the league will always drag down the top half.

[reef]

Right now I will be ecstatic with 2 or 3 back to back 1 bid will be a major letdown

[Jdrums#3]

The minimum goal for the A10 should be 3 bids per year with a conference ranking in the top 10. The league is capable of that despite the changing cbb landscape due to the quality of two-thirds of the programs. That doesn’t mean we will obtain 3 bids every year because unforeseen crap happens but, a majority of years is reasonable, I believe.

However, for me, there are concerns and red flags around: too many bb members for the changing cbb landscape; OOC scheduling hurdles; NIL and retaining and attracting talent; lack of quality wins OOC; too many Q3 & 4 losses in the OOC; too few Q1 opportunities in conference; too many potential pitfalls in conference.

These concerns I have and red flags I see are manageable, fixable, imo, if conf leadership gets all or at least 90% of the programs to buy in and stay committed to a formula for success.

I tend to lean towards BlueMan’s line of thinking above that the conf wasn’t too far off this year and results could have been different with a few breaks here and there for the top teams despite the concerns and red flags. But, then I hear this little Bill Parcells voice in the back of my head contradicting any positivity by saying, we are what our record says we are, concerning the A10.

[RF1]

A-10 basketball battling downward trend of teams in NCAA Tournament
https://www.stltoday.com/sports/college ... 73151.html

[reef]

Great find RF1 , if your asking me right now I’m going to guess Juan bid again in 2024

[ramster]

A-10 basketball battling downward trend of teams in NCAA Tournament
https://www.stltoday.com/sports/college ... 73151.html

RF1,
Do you have the facts about Dan Hurley's contract buy out agreement? I thought I read somewhere recently that it was about $1.5 million or so if paid off one way and roughly $1 million if paid off quickly? Do you recall?
Also with Cox he had a contract maybe his last year or last two years that had some type of buyout if he didn't get the HC job if Hurley left. Do you know the details of that which was aimed at trying to keep Cox at URI as HC if Hurley were to leave.

[Rhody72]

Unless it is an annual rivalry game, don't allow scheduling of Q4 OOC opponents from the previous year.

Allow scheduling of other conference teams that don't count against your conference record.

Reduce schedules rather than scheduling Q4 opponents except for tournaments where the majority of teams are non-Q4.

[RF1]

A-10 basketball battling downward trend of teams in NCAA Tournament
https://www.stltoday.com/sports/college ... 73151.html

RF1,
Do you have the facts about Dan Hurley's contract buy out agreement? I thought I read somewhere recently that it was about $1.5 million or so if paid off one way and roughly $1 million if paid off quickly? Do you recall?
Also with Cox he had a contract maybe his last year or last two years that had some type of buyout if he didn't get the HC job if Hurley left. Do you know the details of that which was aimed at trying to keep Cox at URI as HC if Hurley were to leave.

Hurley Buyout Contract Language:

$1.5 million after the 2017-18 or 2018-19 seasons if paid in equal monthly installments. Lump sum payments of $1.25 million, $1 million first two years.

[reef]

You guys comfortable with McGlade as commish going forward or would u like to see a change there ??

[Jdrums#3]

A-10 basketball battling downward trend of teams in NCAA Tournament
https://www.stltoday.com/sports/college ... 73151.html

Good story, RF1. Thanks for posting.

[Jdrums#3]

You guys comfortable with McGlade as commish going forward or would u like to see a change there ??

I am okay with her for now. Let’s see how she navigates the conference through these new waters for the next two years. If the conference continues to struggle next year and the year after, I think a change would be justified.

That said, her comments in the article were a bit wishy washy to me. Hopefully, she is more demanding of conference members behind the scenes.

[ATPTourFan]

The commissioner doesn’t inspire confidence.

[RhowdyRam02]

You guys comfortable with McGlade as commish going forward or would u like to see a change there ??

I would like to see a change.

1. Men's basketball is the only sport that really matters in our conference and it's been steadily going downhill for a while now.
2. She's been commissioner for 15 years. At a certain point it's just time for someone with new ideas in charge.

If 1 was the opposite and we were rising as a conference than I'd say keep her on, she's bringing something to the table. Where 1 is the state of affairs, it's clear her leadership is stagnant at best, if not subpar

[theblueram]

You guys comfortable with McGlade as commish going forward or would u like to see a change there ??

I would like to see a change.

1. Men's basketball is the only sport that really matters in our conference and it's been steadily going downhill for a while now.
2. She's been commissioner for 15 years. At a certain point it's just time for someone with new ideas in charge.

If 1 was the opposite and we were rising as a conference than I'd say keep her on, she's bringing something to the table. Where 1 is the state of affairs, it's clear her leadership is stagnant at best, if not subpar

Plus, did I hear A10 Basketball is going to FLO Sports? If true, that is a fireable offense

[Dino611]

You guys comfortable with McGlade as commish going forward or would u like to see a change there ??

I would like to see a change.

1. Men's basketball is the only sport that really matters in our conference and it's been steadily going downhill for a while now.
2. She's been commissioner for 15 years. At a certain point it's just time for someone with new ideas in charge.

If 1 was the opposite and we were rising as a conference than I'd say keep her on, she's bringing something to the table. Where 1 is the state of affairs, it's clear her leadership is stagnant at best, if not subpar

Plus, did I hear A10 Basketball is going to FLO Sports? If true, that is a fireable offense

Was an April fools joke

At the same time I couldn’t agree more of that ever happens

[reef]

Ugh Flo Sports the absolute worst

Hopefully we can fade that purchase this November or December lol

[RF1]

McGlade was a decent commissioner early on and maneuvered the league well early on. I however always thought moving the HQ away from most members to the Virginia shore was a selfish decision based solely on where she wanted to live.

That however does not mean she is suited to lead the conference today in a totally new college basketball environment. The A-10 is presently in decline under her watch. There does not seem to be much being done at the league administration level to right the ship. It may be time for her to make a graceful exit and bring in new blood with a different approach to the ever changing landscape of the sport.

[theblueram]

McGlade was a decent commissioner early on and maneuvered the league well early on. I however always thought moving the HQ away from most members to the Virginia shore was a selfish decision based solely on where she wanted to live.

That however does not mean she is suited to lead the conference today in a totally new college basketball environment. The A-10 is presently in decline under her watch. There does not seem to be much being done at the league administration level to right the ship. It may be time for her to make a graceful exit and bring in new blood with a different approach to the ever changing landscape of the sport.

I think Thorr should get the job. As much as we would lose, we would gain.