22-23 Starting Five

[Jdrums#3]

Actually right now I like Archie's starting 5: Ish, Bray, Martin, Samb, and Bilau.

I agree, Jersey. Although, to start at times, I wouldn’t mind seeing Hutch replace Martin depending on match up’s as to size and athleticism. Malik looks slow and non-explosive still (maybe due to the ankle) and looks to be struggling against bigger, longer, more athletic match up’s.

[Rhody15]

Remember when people said we’d be better off with Malik than Tyrese?

Lol good times.

[eli#10]

I don't disagree. Malik had 3 points in the first 2 minutes of the PC game and in 29 minutes he had 5 points. 3 points in his last 27 minutes and only 2 rebounds for the game. We need more than that from our 5th year senior.

[Rhodymob05]

If Malik wasn’t an upper class man then he’d be a reserve guy.

[bigappleram]

Higher floor lower ceiling scenario. I’d much rather see those minutes go to Weston or Hutch. But I’m sure Archie is concerned with the intangibles that you get from Malik. He just really really struggles offensively. If he could only knock down the corner 3 at 40% we’d be cooking with gas.

[Blue Man]

Higher floor lower ceiling scenario. I’d much rather see those minutes go to Weston or Hutch. But I’m sure Archie is concerned with the intangibles that you get from Malik. He just really really struggles offensively. If he could only knock down the corner 3 at 40% we’d be cooking with gas.

Yeah I think it’s the “establishing a culture” thing.

If you put a premium on practicing and training and doing things the right way, and you have a leader who’s doing everything right, on the top of the board, how do you bench him?

I think we just have to continually be patient. This season, specifically the OOC, isn’t about winning.

I do agree, I’d rather see Hutch or Weston getting Malik’s minutes - but if you’re establishing a team, what’s that demonstrating to the younger kids about what’ll happen if they stay a few years? They’ll be recruited over even when they’re a “leader” on the team?

Just going to be a tough and purposeful rebuild. I still think we’re going to be very different come February.

[SGreenwell]

I'd also add - Hutchinson and Weston have both been inconsistent enough from game to game that it's not immediately clear who you'd send Martin to the bench for. Martin had two more and three more misses than Hutchinson and Weston, respectively, last night, but he also played double their minutes. Hutchinson had three fouls in 15 minutes. PERs for Hutchinson and Weston are still below Martin's mark of 7.5. (Our top five players in PER are now Leggett, Samb, Tchikou, Freeman and Bilou - probably too much to ask one of the big men to play the 3 and not enough outside shooting.)

[LoveThoseRams]

I don't disagree. Malik had 3 points in the first 2 minutes of the PC game and in 29 minutes he had 5 points. 3 points in his last 27 minutes and only 2 rebounds for the game. We need more than that from our 5th year senior.

I also think the ankle is an issue. He doesn’t seem to set correctly when he is shooting. He may be playing through pain that we aren’t aware of.

So what’s the story with Carey? I have heard he may be disciplined for attitude lately.

[McRam]

I'd also add - Hutchinson and Weston have both been inconsistent enough from game to game that it's not immediately clear who you'd send Martin to the bench for. Martin had two more and three more misses than Hutchinson and Weston, respectively, last night, but he also played double their minutes. Hutchinson had three fouls in 15 minutes. PERs for Hutchinson and Weston are still below Martin's mark of 7.5. (Our top five players in PER are now Leggett, Samb, Tchikou, Freeman and Bilou - probably too much to ask one of the big men to play the 3 and not enough outside shooting.)

. In general, I think the PER is a good, quick way to evaluate a player’s contribution. However, for a defensive type of player like Malik, who does not make a lot of blocks or steals, it underestimates that player’s contributions.

[Jdrums#3]

A lot of good stuff above.

I don’t think he should be removed from the starting lineup for every game. I wasn’t going there with my comment.

He definitely has value to the team and culture being constructed. I was thinking more along the lines of particular games due to match up issues he may have because of physical limitations or bothersome ankle injury.

Granted, I am only going off of yesterday’s game, the BC game and some game clips for an eye test evaluation. I have more confidence in other’s opinions who have viewed more games.

Good discussion.

[eli#10]

Thomas sort of dominates any discussion about poor shooting but Malik's are also pretty dismal at 28.8 / 21.7 and 57.1.

[Blue Man]

I don't disagree. Malik had 3 points in the first 2 minutes of the PC game and in 29 minutes he had 5 points. 3 points in his last 27 minutes and only 2 rebounds for the game. We need more than that from our 5th year senior.

I also think the ankle is an issue. He doesn’t seem to set correctly when he is shooting. He may be playing through pain that we aren’t aware of.

So what’s the story with Carey? I have heard he may be disciplined for attitude lately.

Well whoever you “heard” that from is making that up. Carey is very much injured.

[RhowdyRam02]

Higher floor lower ceiling scenario. I’d much rather see those minutes go to Weston or Hutch. But I’m sure Archie is concerned with the intangibles that you get from Malik. He just really really struggles offensively. If he could only knock down the corner 3 at 40% we’d be cooking with gas.

Or if he stopped taking so many 3 pointers in general. He has the third most attempts from 3 and he's just not that good of a shot for it to be a good option for our offense

[SGreenwell]

I'd also add - Hutchinson and Weston have both been inconsistent enough from game to game that it's not immediately clear who you'd send Martin to the bench for. Martin had two more and three more misses than Hutchinson and Weston, respectively, last night, but he also played double their minutes. Hutchinson had three fouls in 15 minutes. PERs for Hutchinson and Weston are still below Martin's mark of 7.5. (Our top five players in PER are now Leggett, Samb, Tchikou, Freeman and Bilou - probably too much to ask one of the big men to play the 3 and not enough outside shooting.)

. In general, I think the PER is a good, quick way to evaluate a player’s contribution. However, for a defensive type of player like Malik, who does not make a lot of blocks or steals, it underestimates that player’s contributions.

I don't disagree with that. Defense is harder to evaluate, and probably a stronger point in Martin's favor for playing time at the 3 than Weston or Hutchinson. (At the 4, tougher to justify with how we're being out-rebounded at times. Martin is a good rebounded for a small forward, but he's not Charles Barkley out there, some guy who can play the whole game essentially out of position.)

[Rhody72]

If Malik wasn’t an upper class man then he’d be a reserve guy.

That is what you would expect from a D3 program. Archie says he is building a program. You don't do that by playing a low productivity fifth year senior in a D1 program. I mean no disrespect to Malik who probably works very hard in practice. If Malik could hit an open shot, Thomas would have many more assists. Archie needs to develop players of the future - this season is lost.

[Jdrums#3]

You skipped D2 and went straight to D3 for the underhanded insult to the program and coach today. You jumped the gun and made the insult obvious and easy to catch. Should have thought it out better.

Everybody has an off day. Try again later.

[LoveThoseRams]

I don't disagree. Malik had 3 points in the first 2 minutes of the PC game and in 29 minutes he had 5 points. 3 points in his last 27 minutes and only 2 rebounds for the game. We need more than that from our 5th year senior.

I also think the ankle is an issue. He doesn’t seem to set correctly when he is shooting. He may be playing through pain that we aren’t aware of.

So what’s the story with Carey? I have heard he may be disciplined for attitude lately.

Well whoever you “heard” that from is making that up. Carey is very much injured.

You are pretty ademant that you have the inside scoop about things. This just happened to come from someone on the staff, so maybe they are "making things up." I do not know how that would benefit anyone by putting that out if not true.

[Rhody15]

I also think the ankle is an issue. He doesn’t seem to set correctly when he is shooting. He may be playing through pain that we aren’t aware of.

So what’s the story with Carey? I have heard he may be disciplined for attitude lately.

Well whoever you “heard” that from is making that up. Carey is very much injured.

You are pretty ademant that you have the inside scoop about things. This just happened to come from someone on the staff, so maybe they are "making things up." I do not know how that would benefit anyone by putting that out if not true.

My favorite in season rumor was when someone here said they heard, after 2/3 games, there were rumblings about Freeman transferring again.

Got a good chuckle out of that.

[Blue Man]

I also think the ankle is an issue. He doesn’t seem to set correctly when he is shooting. He may be playing through pain that we aren’t aware of.

So what’s the story with Carey? I have heard he may be disciplined for attitude lately.

Well whoever you “heard” that from is making that up. Carey is very much injured.

You are pretty ademant that you have the inside scoop about things. This just happened to come from someone on the staff, so maybe they are "making things up." I do not know how that would benefit anyone by putting that out if not true.

I'd have a bad attitude too if my team was struggling and I was hurt and couldn't play.

[LoveThoseRams]

Well whoever you “heard” that from is making that up. Carey is very much injured.

You are pretty ademant that you have the inside scoop about things. This just happened to come from someone on the staff, so maybe they are "making things up." I do not know how that would benefit anyone by putting that out if not true.

I'd have a bad attitude too if my team was struggling and I was hurt and couldn't play.

Perhaps you would, but I am uncertain that Miller accepts that.

[Jersey77]

Just a thought, how about a starting 5: Bray, Ish, Carey, Martin, Bilau

[Jdrums#3]

Just a thought, how about a starting 5: Bray, Ish, Carey, Martin, Bilau

I am curious as to how they would do, Jersey, so I’d like to see Arch try that starting lineup - for selfish reasons.

[reef]

Just a thought, how about a starting 5: Bray, Ish, Carey, Martin, Bilau

Definitely possible if Arch doesn’t want to go double bigs to start

[bigappleram]

Interesting data for this convo.

[Blue Man]

I think when healthy our best 5 are Bray/Ish/Carey/Martin/Bilau

[bigappleram]

Agree

[UCH21377]

I agree with that too, think it should be our starting 5

[bigappleram]

More great data from the guys at A10 stats.

[RJRam]

Amazing stats. Our schedule has been pretty weak. But being #2 is certainly surprising. Maybe there is some hope for a good/decent A10 showing this year?

[Blue Man]

Amazing stats. Our schedule has been pretty weak. But being #2 is certainly surprising. Maybe there is some hope for a good/decent A10 showing this year?

The conference is pretty weak. If we stay healthy, Carey is a difference maker in that he’s our 3rd scoring option.

If Ant Harris comes in and gives us ANYTHING it would be helpful.

[ElmCityRhody]

[NYGFan_Section208]

Well whoever you “heard” that from is making that up. Carey is very much injured.

You are pretty ademant that you have the inside scoop about things. This just happened to come from someone on the staff, so maybe they are "making things up." I do not know how that would benefit anyone by putting that out if not true.

My favorite in season rumor was when someone here said they heard, after 2/3 games, there were rumblings about Freeman transferring again.

Got a good chuckle out of that.

I don't think anyone wants to see that, but in the age of Portalpalooza...anything is possible.

[KevanBoyles]

Interesting data for this convo.

I find this fascinating. I’m pretty sure Archie tracks everything. it looks to me that he was playing different lineups intentionally even in the face of this metric through the first third of the season. Now that it is behind us and he has the data he was looking for, he has locked in on this starting lineup. Maybe that’s now why we’re starting to see results.

[RhowdyRam02]

Yes and no. Archie was definitely trying different lineups to see what his rotation would look like but Bilau wasn't available for the first three games even if he wanted to settle on this optimal lineup early

[Billyboy78]

It seems like Archie has settled on a rotation of mainly 8 guys. The 3 who have seen little floor time in the past 2 games are Rory (2 DNPs), Louis (3 minutes and a DNP) and Brandon (4 minutes and 7 minutes).

[Jersey77]

It seems like Archie has settled on a rotation of mainly 8 guys. The 3 who have seen little floor time in the past 2 games are Rory (2 DNPs), Louis (3 minutes and a DNP) and Brandon (4 minutes and 7 minutes).

Not so sure about that BB.
Maybe the last couple of games but going forward just don't know.

If Bilau won't be available, we will probably see more of Rory.
Unless of course there is some injury or illness with him not reported.
Also, Samb has been a little prone to foul trouble.

I still expect Weston to get more playing time as we get into conference play.

Luis had some flashes, but he is still raw and we need to see some consistency from him.

[Billyboy78]

It seems like Archie has settled on a rotation of mainly 8 guys. The 3 who have seen little floor time in the past 2 games are Rory (2 DNPs), Louis (3 minutes and a DNP) and Brandon (4 minutes and 7 minutes).

Not so sure about that BB.
Maybe the last couple of games but going forward just don't know.

If Bilau won't be available, we will probably see more of Rory.
Unless of course there is some injury or illness with him not reported.
Also, Samb has been a little prone to foul trouble.

I still expect Weston to get more playing time as we get into conference play.

Luis had some flashes, but he is still raw and we need to see some consistency from him.

Brandon's minutes have been dropping for a while now. In the past 5 games it looks like this.....18-15-12-4-7.

[Jersey77]

It seems like Archie has settled on a rotation of mainly 8 guys. The 3 who have seen little floor time in the past 2 games are Rory (2 DNPs), Louis (3 minutes and a DNP) and Brandon (4 minutes and 7 minutes).

Not so sure about that BB.
Maybe the last couple of games but going forward just don't know.

If Bilau won't be available, we will probably see more of Rory.
Unless of course there is some injury or illness with him not reported.
Also, Samb has been a little prone to foul trouble.

I still expect Weston to get more playing time as we get into conference play.

Luis had some flashes, but he is still raw and we need to see some consistency from him.

Brandon's minutes have been dropping for a while now. In the past 5 games it looks like this.....18-15-12-4-7.

They have been lately, and Archie does have a short leash.
But he also said Weston will be a different player come January.
I guess we will find out.

[Rhodymob05]

Definitely want to see more of Weston.

[spar]

He's gotta still be fighting thru that back issue. Just doesn't look comfortable/fluid when he's on the floor to me. Assuming that's the case, hopefully he can get healthier for the second half of the year and provide us with some additional productive minutes off the bench.
Guess we'll find out soon enough.

[Rhody72]

I'm not certain as to how much adding Ant Harris will help this team. Ant is another guard who in 35 games of college ball over three years averaged 3-4 points/game. Depth at guard isn't our problem; we need outside shooting and front-court help.

[steveystuds06]

I'm not certain as to how much adding Ant Harris will help this team. Ant is another guard who in 35 games of college ball over three years averaged 3-4 points/game. Depth at guard isn't our problem; we need outside shooting and front-court help.

Foster Loyer did nothing before he came to Davidson and now he’s one of the best guards in the country. Sometimes the change of scenery and opportunity is all these high major transfers need to reach their full potential.

At the very least, My guess is Ant is an upgrade over Bassy. Love that kid but the offense is too much of a liability right now.

[steveystuds06]

Definitely want to see more of Weston.

Me too.

[Rhody72]

Definitely want to see more of Weston.

Me too.

I don't think Weston's problem is rust. It is injury/recovery/conditioning. There is no reason for him to be playing until he is 100% healthy and ready.

[steveystuds06]

I think Weston has a lot more potential than Malik Martin, so I hope he can slowly eat into his minutes. In the 3 games Weston has played over 20 minutes, he’s averaging close to 8 pts and 5 rebs. Malik is averaging around 8 and 6 in over 30 minutes a game.

I liked what I saw from Weston in the Caymans. Ever since then, it seems like he has an incredibly short leash.

[Billyboy78]

Ant isn't an outside shooter either. He's a slasher. But he also brings toughness and attitude. Archie preaches attitude.

[Rhodymob05]

Weston was the best player during the preseason scrimmage. Great point about Weston having more potential than Malik and balancing their minutes. Thus far, it’s been one turnover and Archie pulls him.

[NYGFan_Section208]

Weston was the best player during the preseason scrimmage. Great point about Weston having more potential than Malik and balancing their minutes. Thus far, it’s been one turnover and Archie pulls him.

I guess when he stops making that one turnover, he'll get some solid run. Martin's a known commodity at this point...hopefully BW has a higher ceiling that we get to see someday soon. Let's go, Brandon!

[RhowdyRam02]

Weston was the best player during the preseason scrimmage. Great point about Weston having more potential than Malik and balancing their minutes. Thus far, it’s been one turnover and Archie pulls him.

If only Archie would do the same when Malik takes an ill-advised three

[Billyboy78]

Archie sits people down for a mistake they make on the defensive end much more often than if they make a mistake on the offensive end.