History of the Big East & URI

[Rhodewarrior]

I was watching the ESPN 30 for 30 on the Big East and it's launch. As an undergrad I heard all kinds of stories about URI being considered for that league but I also heard that URI was never considered as it's program at that point was not consistent enough and never would they allow two teams from Rhode Island in. I want to avoid the "tales" and know the true story? Was URI ever really considered or no?

BTW, been following the board but after a long break I am back. Jim Baron took the life from me, Hurley began to restore it and I have decided to jump back into the fray. Nice to see old friends here again.

[Billyboy78]

I was watching the ESPN 30 for 30 on the Big East and it's launch. As an undergrad I heard all kinds of stories about URI being considered for that league but I also heard that URI was never considered as it's program at that point was not consistent enough and never would they allow two teams from Rhode Island in. I want to avoid the "tales" and know the true story? Was URI ever really considered or no?

BTW, been following the board but after a long break I am back. Jim Baron took the life from me, Hurley began to restore it and I have decided to jump back into the fray. Nice to see old friends here again.

Never.....Dave Gavitt. As far as consistency, when the Big East formed, URI was the best team in New England, better than PC, better than UConn.

[hrstrat57]

Rhode Island and Holy Cross were the top 2 programs.

Holy Cross I believe was offered entry. URI was blatantly snubbed.

There was the fascinating URI poach of Sly Williams and the infamous Smith Hill thumbed nose at the 78 URI team which might have been our strongest team of all time...

78 plays a large role in why we older fans hate Friartown

[Rhody72]

I don't recall two teams from the same media market being original members of the Big East.

[daytonflyerfan]

Rhode Island and Holy Cross were the top 2 programs.

Holy Cross I believe was offered entry. URI was blatantly snubbed.

Holy Cross? I never would have guessed that. Did they decline the invite?

[hrstrat57]

Rhode Island and Holy Cross were the top 2 programs.

Holy Cross I believe was offered entry. URI was blatantly snubbed.

Holy Cross? I never would have guessed that. Did they decline the invite?

https://sportslifer.wordpress.com/2009/ ... -of-hoops/

https://hcspire.com/2020/02/14/imagine- ... -big-east/

https://i80sportsblog.com/when-the-east ... asketball/

[RF1]

When the Big East was created in 1979, URI was the top team in New England and one of the best in all the east. It was in the midst of two great seasons (1977-78 and 1978-79) having gone 24-7 and 20-9. Providence College's very successful run of many seasons had come to an end at the conclusion of the 1977-78 season. Gavitt's last year in 1978-79 saw the Friars falter and post a 10-16 record. It was the beginning of a fourteen year stretch where PC would have just one season with 20 or more wins (Pitino's Final-4 run). It was during the 1978-79 season that Gavitt was putting the Big East together. The new league was officially formed in May-1979 with play starting just months later in the Fall.

Even though URI was riding high at the Big East's creation, there was no way that Gavitt would include the Rams. He was still miffed for losing Sly Williams and two teams in RI were a no go. URI was therefore never a serious consideration.

Gavitt formed his new league with his chosen few and killed decades of eastern basketball tradition. The region had seen much program fluidity over the years with different teams rising and falling. Most teams played one another extensively and many long and storied rivalries existed. The Big East created a rigid caste system that still to this day exists. Eastern basketball became a collection of haves and have nots. Old rivalries were almost instantly dropped with little regard for common history. While things were great for the teams in the new league, the rest of the eastern college basketball establishment was relegated to a permanant purgatory.

Gavitt was the first to form a league specifically to maximize tv exposure and revenue. The driving force of his new league was greed and self interest. He had little regard for other schools and the consequences his new league would have on them. The strategy and actions that occurred during the conference upheaval movement led by today's P5 that came in the 2000's and ultimately tore apart the Big East had its genesis with Dave Gavitt and his new made for tv league.

[Billyboy78]

Just think of how the Big East affected our recruiting. Our teams in the late 70s were so good because Jack Kraft was getting great players from Connecticut, NYC and Philly. In 1974, he got Jiggy Williamson, the best player on the best high school team in the country. He was from Connecticut. In 1976, he got Sly Williams, one of the best players in the country. He was also from Connecticut. During that same period, he got Stan and Jimmy Wright and Phil Kydd from NY and also got another NYC kid, Irv Chatman, to transfer from Tennessee. He then got Pappy Owens, one of the best players in Philadelphia. He also got Roland Houston from Philly. When Gavitt started the BIG East, our chances of getting players like that greatly diminished. A few years later we did get Silk Owens from NYC and then about 10 years later Tyson Wheeler from Connecticut and Cat Mobley from Philly, but that's because they were under recruited. The top players in those 3 areas had the shiny new league and could choose to go to UConn, St. John's and Villanova. We could no longer compete with these schools for top recruits like we did right before the start of the Big East. Since then, Lamar Odom is the only player we got that would compare to the players Jack Kraft was getting in the 70s, meaning highly recruited players from some of the hotbeds of high school basketball. But as we know, Lamar was a rare case. Dave Gavitt ended that for us.

[RF1]

For a good before and after perspective, check out some of URI's games from the 1978-79 schedule

@Syracuse
@ St John's
Boston College
PC
@PC
UConn
@Uconn


And by the way, URI also played many games that season versus teams that would be today's A-10:
UMass
St Bonaventure
LaSalle
St Josephs

[Ramulous]

If Dave Gavitt was friends with a schools AD that went a long way to getting an invite. Gavitt was not buddies with Moe Zarchen. If have my own unsubstantiated reasons for this.

[NYGFan_Section208]

Understood the anti-Gavitt.... I thought the OG BE was one of the ballsiest conferences to watch ever...

[PCFriars]

Never.....Dave Gavitt. As far as consistency, when the Big East formed, URI was the best team in New England, better than PC, better than UConn.

I’m sorry but I can not let this level of fallacy go unanswered.

The Big East was formed in 1979, so I’m going to go through the 70s. This should be seen as reasonable given that it is a 10 year sample size, and also not an arbitrary cutoff since neither URI or PC had made an NCAA tournament since 1966.

URI
1969-70 – 16-10
1970-71 – 10-17
1971-72 – 15-11
1972-73 – 7-18
1973-74 – 11-14
1974-75 – 5-20
1975-76 – 14-12
1976-77 – 13-13
1977-78 – 24-7 (NCAA – Lost 1st round)
1978-79 – 20-9 (NIT - Lost 1st round)

PROVIDENCE
1969-70 – 14-11
1970-71 – 20-8 (NIT – Lost 2nd round)
1971-72 – 21-6 (NCAA – Lost 1st round)
1972-73 – 27-4 (NCAA Final Four)
1973-74 – 28-4 (NCAA Sweet Sixteen)
1974-75 – 20-11 (Lost NIT Final)
1975-76 – 21-11 (Lost NIT Semifinal)
1976-77 – 24-5 (NCAA – Lost 1st round)
1977-78 – 24-8 (NCAA – Lost 1st round)
1978-79 – 10-16

In addition, PC went 13-7 in head to head matchups against URI during the decade. If you want to say you had the best season in the year before the formation of the Big East, sure you did. No argument. To say you were the best program in New England at that time is just wrong. You can’t look at future results and craft a retrospective argument, particularly when URI’s results in the early-mid 80s are just about as piss poor as PC’s.

[CHICO 78]

Friendship had little to do with anything. Gavitt was as cold and calculating as an accountant.
Every team was chosen to access a Major TV market and to monopolize the Rich recruiting of the north easts cities. URI wasn’t invited because PC already owned RI TV and we brought nothing to Gavitt’s creation except to dilute the tiny RI market.
You are right the BE choked the life out of recruiting especially in the early years. But Gavitts plan back fired to a degree and Little PeeCee had a tough time competing with their big brothers in NY and Philly and DC, etc.

[ramster]

Never.....Dave Gavitt. As far as consistency, when the Big East formed, URI was the best team in New England, better than PC, better than UConn.

I’m sorry but I can not let this level of fallacy go unanswered.

The Big East was formed in 1979, so I’m going to go through the 70s. This should be seen as reasonable given that it is a 10 year sample size, and also not an arbitrary cutoff since neither URI or PC had made an NCAA tournament since 1966.

URI
1969-70 – 16-10
1970-71 – 10-17
1971-72 – 15-11
1972-73 – 7-18
1973-74 – 11-14
1974-75 – 5-20
1975-76 – 14-12
1976-77 – 13-13
1977-78 – 24-7 (NCAA – Lost 1st round)
1978-79 – 20-9

PROVIDENCE
1969-70 – 14-11
1970-71 – 20-8 (NIT – Lost 2nd round)
1971-72 – 21-6 (NCAA – Lost 1st round)
1972-73 – 27-4 (NCAA Final Four)
1973-74 – 28-4 (NCAA Sweet Sixteen)
1974-75 – 20-11 (Lost NIT Final)
1975-76 – 21-11 (Lost NIT Semifinal)
1976-77 – 24-5 (NCAA – Lost 1st round)
1977-78 – 24-8 (NCAA – Lost 1st round)
1978-79 – 10-16

In addition, PC went 13-7 in head to head matchups against URI during the decade. If you want to say you had the best season in the year before the formation of the Big East, sure you did. No argument. To say you were the best program in New England at that time is just wrong. You can’t look at future results and craft a retrospective argument, particularly when URI’s results in the early-mid 80s are just about as piss poor as PC’s.

In 1978-1979 URI lost in triple OT at Cole Field House to Maryland in the NIT.
Maryland had Albert King, Ernest Graham, Buck Williams, Greg Manning

URI had a 1 point lead and we were trying to run out the clock. Our All American Sly Williams got called for an offensive foul and was out because it was his 5th foul. Maryland made 1 of 2 FTs to send it to the first OT.
URI has Center Irv Chatman was hurt for this game and didn’t play.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/ ... b5fd06814/

[PCFriars]

My error on that. I have corrected the post

[Billyboy78]

Never.....Dave Gavitt. As far as consistency, when the Big East formed, URI was the best team in New England, better than PC, better than UConn.

I’m sorry but I can not let this level of fallacy go unanswered.

The Big East was formed in 1979, so I’m going to go through the 70s. This should be seen as reasonable given that it is a 10 year sample size, and also not an arbitrary cutoff since neither URI or PC had made an NCAA tournament since 1966.

URI
1969-70 – 16-10
1970-71 – 10-17
1971-72 – 15-11
1972-73 – 7-18
1973-74 – 11-14
1974-75 – 5-20
1975-76 – 14-12
1976-77 – 13-13
1977-78 – 24-7 (NCAA – Lost 1st round)
1978-79 – 20-9 (NIT - Lost 1st round)

PROVIDENCE
1969-70 – 14-11
1970-71 – 20-8 (NIT – Lost 2nd round)
1971-72 – 21-6 (NCAA – Lost 1st round)
1972-73 – 27-4 (NCAA Final Four)
1973-74 – 28-4 (NCAA Sweet Sixteen)
1974-75 – 20-11 (Lost NIT Final)
1975-76 – 21-11 (Lost NIT Semifinal)
1976-77 – 24-5 (NCAA – Lost 1st round)
1977-78 – 24-8 (NCAA – Lost 1st round)
1978-79 – 10-16

In addition, PC went 13-7 in head to head matchups against URI during the decade. If you want to say you had the best season in the year before the formation of the Big East, sure you did. No argument. To say you were the best program in New England at that time is just wrong. You can’t look at future results and craft a retrospective argument, particularly when URI’s results in the early-mid 80s are just about as piss poor as PC’s.

My quote was " When the Big East formed, URI was the best team in New England, better than PC, better than UConn." How is that a fallacy? The Big East was conceived in 1978 and began in 1979. Show me a team that was better?

[rjsuperfly66]

The problem is we don't typically base those conversations off of one or two year samples -- It'd be like me saying I'd rather be Dayton or San Diego St than UNC or Kentucky because Dayton had a better season.

URI was basically a .500 (.508) team in the 70s. PC was .713. UCONN was .578. They were obviously peaking at the end of the decade but that shouldn't eliminate all prior accomplishments from other teams.

[Billyboy78]

Once again, I said when the Big East was formed.....with the recruits Kraft was still getting, Pappy Owens, Marc Upshaw, I believe it would have continued. Is that a stretch? I don't think it is.

[Rhode_Island_Red]

Once again, I said when the Big East was formed.....with the recruits Kraft was still getting, Pappy Owens, Marc Upshaw, I believe it would have continued. Is that a stretch? I don't think it is.

Clearly, URI was on the way up and Pee-C was on the way down. Just compare the players each was getting -- while we were landing recruits like those Billyboy mentioned, Gavitt was hauling in the likes of Rich Hunger and Sam Lucas.

[CHICO 78]

URI was on the way up for another year or 2 and then Jack Kraft got sick and
Claude English took over had one good season and the bottom fell out for a while.
Hard to say we would have continued to have the same success without Kraft.

[RF1]

If we want to examine many years of history, I believe that URI may only trail UConn in all-time wins for the D1 Men's basketball programs of New England. Rhody has an all-time win total of 1541. It used to be listed as a blurb in game notes.

[Rhode_Island_Red]

URI was on the way up for another year or 2 and then Jack Kraft got sick and
Claude English took over had one good season and the bottom fell out for a while.
Hard to say we would have continued to have the same success without Kraft.

We also got a new president and a new AD, neither of whom lifted a finger to help Claude or the basketball program.

[rjsuperfly66]

If we want to examine many years of history, I believe that URI may only trail UConn in all-time wins for the D1 Men's basketball programs of New England. Rhody has an all-time win total of 1541. It used to be listed as a blurb in game notes.

That's kind of a longevity statistic, no?

It's neat, but it's how I feel about a lot of statistics now-a-days.

I mean, whose scoring mark is more impressive, Ernie Calverley or EC Mathews?

But whose higher in the record books?

[Billyboy78]

If we want to examine many years of history, I believe that URI may only trail UConn in all-time wins for the D1 Men's basketball programs of New England. Rhody has an all-time win total of 1541. It used to be listed as a blurb in game notes.

That's kind of a longevity statistic, no?

It's neat, but it's how I feel about a lot of statistics now-a-days.

I mean, whose scoring mark is more impressive, Ernie Calverley or EC Mathews?

But whose higher in the record books?

That was my point. I stated that when the Big East was started, URI was the best team in New England. That's a fact. The other PC poster decided to include the entire decade for some reason. Why is that relevant to what was specifically going on the 1978-1979? I didn't say anything about 1970-1977. It was irrelevant to the start of the Big East, which is what we are discussing.

[ramster]

If we want to examine many years of history, I believe that URI may only trail UConn in all-time wins for the D1 Men's basketball programs of New England. Rhody has an all-time win total of 1541. It used to be listed as a blurb in game notes.

That's kind of a longevity statistic, no?

It's neat, but it's how I feel about a lot of statistics now-a-days.

I mean, whose scoring mark is more impressive, Ernie Calverley or EC Mathews?

But whose higher in the record books?

That was my point. I stated that when the Big East was started, URI was the best team in New England. That's a fact. The other PC poster decided to include the entire decade for some reason. Why is that relevant to what was specifically going on the 1978-1979? I didn't say anything about 1970-1977. It was irrelevant to the start of the Big East, which is what we are discussing.

BillyBoy,
You are right, URI was very talented. Best team in New England and Dave Gavitt knew it. Gavitt wasn't looking at the last 10 or 20 years, he was looking at what was happening at the time and URI was surging.

Just look at this line up!! Gavitt never got over losing All American Sly Williams to URI. It drove him nuts. Gavitt was losing the State Basketball #1 Status and the New England #1 Status to URI - he knew it.

Sly Williams - what can I say. What a basketball player!! He could rebound, dribble, pass, shoot, defend - he could do it all.
Jimmy Wright was Stan's younger brother and a solid power forward
John Nelson could shoot the lights out - wish they had the 3 Point shot when John was playing
Nick Johnson was an excellent guard
Irv Chatman was a solid center, transferred to URI from Tennessee
Phil Kydd was an excellent player, great leader and continues to be a great leader in society
Gilson DeJesus was a good player from Brazil
Roland Houston was a Freshman - excellent recruit by Kraft
Kevin Whiting was a Freshman who could shoot the lights out from Durfee High School

Sly Williams F 6-7 23.9 Pts, 8.4 Reb, 3.5 Ast
Jimmy Wright F 6-8 12.9 Pts, 7.9 Reb, 1.0 Ast
John Nelson G 6-4 10.4 Pts, 2.2 Reb, 1.6 Ast
Nick Johnson G 6-1 6.9 Pts, 1.4 Reb, 3.1 Ast
Irv Chatman C 6-8 6.8 Pts, 7.0 Reb, 0.5 Ast
Phil Kydd F 6-4 5.6 Pts, 2.1 Reb, 0.7 Ast
Gilson DeJesus F 6-6 4.2 Pts, 2.3 Reb, 0.2 Ast
Roland Houston C 6-8 2.8 Pts, 2.0 Reb, 0.4 Ast
Kevin Whiting G 6-2 3.4 Pts, 0.8 Reb, 0.7 Ast
Ed Bednarek G 6-0 1.6 Pts, 0.9 Reb, 1.9 Ast
Victor Berguglio G 5-11 1.8 Pts, 0.6 Reb, 0.6 Ast
M. Brooks 2.2 Pts, 0.4 Reb, 0.0 Ast
_ Grooms 1.3 Pts, 1.7 Reb, 0.1 Ast
_ Hollis 1.1 Pts, 0.4 Reb, 0.2 Ast

[RF1]

If we want to examine many years of history, I believe that URI may only trail UConn in all-time wins for the D1 Men's basketball programs of New England. Rhody has an all-time win total of 1541. It used to be listed as a blurb in game notes.

That's kind of a longevity statistic, no?

It's neat, but it's how I feel about a lot of statistics now-a-days.

I mean, whose scoring mark is more impressive, Ernie Calverley or EC Mathews?

But whose higher in the record books?

Longevity as to when the programs first started play is a factor. Keep in mind however that most of the D1 schools in New England are fairly old and many first started play in the early 1900's. Also consider that schools played very short schedules of just 10-15 games most seasons in the early years. URI for instance didn't first play more than 20 games until the 1936-37 season.

[hrstrat57]

@Ramster don’t forget my friend Percy Davis from Warwick who could jump through the roof!

[ramster]

@Ramster don’t forget my friend Percy Davis from Warwick who could jump through the roof!

Percy wasn’t on the 1978-1979 team but you are right, Percy Davis was great. And so was Willie Middlebrooks. Imagine those two guys on the same Rhode Island High School Team? Jack Kraft was a master at identifying and developing talent

[Jersey77]

Randy Hughes had unbelievable hops, best leaper I have seen in a Rhody uniform, Carlton Smith was also right there and he was smooth.

[Billyboy78]

Randy Hughes had unbelievable hops, best leaper I have seen in a Rhody uniform, Carlton Smith was also right there and he was smooth.

Carlton was there when I got there. He was from Boston. Yes, he was smooth and a leaper, but not a leaper like Percy. When I was in school, they had a sub-varsity team. They weren't called Jayvee for some reason. IIRC, both Percy and Willie played sub-varsity for a couple of years. Percy really blossomed his last couple of years. Ramster, Warwick Vets, right?

[Jersey77]

Willie had a great jump shot, and yes Percy had hops, but you missed Randy Hughes in the early 70's who could jump out of the gym. He couldn't shoot but can finish around the rim. Steve Rowell was an excellent shooter and scorer, one of the best ever at Rhody, and also a great person.

[Billyboy78]

I remember Hughes and Rowell. I wasn't there yet, but both of my sisters were. I've been a fan since I was a kid when Art Stephenson and John Fultz played around 68?

[ramster]

Randy Hughes had unbelievable hops, best leaper I have seen in a Rhody uniform, Carlton Smith was also right there and he was smooth.

Carlton was there when I got there. He was from Boston. Yes, he was smooth and a leaper, but not a leaper like Percy. When I was in school, they had a sub-varsity team. They weren't called Jayvee for some reason. IIRC, both Percy and Willie played sub-varsity for a couple of years. Percy really blossomed his last couple of years. Ramster, Warwick Vets, right?

Yes. Percy Davis and Willie Middlebrooks both played for Warwick Vets at the same time.

Carlton Smith was from Boston and had amazing talent and potential.

Randy Hughes was an incredible leaper.

[damram]

Eddy and Chuckran killed any momentum URI had in athletics.

[ramster]

If we want to examine many years of history, I believe that URI may only trail UConn in all-time wins for the D1 Men's basketball programs of New England. Rhody has an all-time win total of 1541. It used to be listed as a blurb in game notes.

That's kind of a longevity statistic, no?

It's neat, but it's how I feel about a lot of statistics now-a-days.

I mean, whose scoring mark is more impressive, Ernie Calverley or EC Mathews?

But whose higher in the record books?

That was my point. I stated that when the Big East was started, URI was the best team in New England. That's a fact. The other PC poster decided to include the entire decade for some reason. Why is that relevant to what was specifically going on the 1978-1979? I didn't say anything about 1970-1977. It was irrelevant to the start of the Big East, which is what we are discussing.

Sly Williams was the best player in the Northeast in 1978-79. Dave Gavitt never got over losing Sly to URI
Consensus All-America Teams
1st Team
David Greenwood (UCLA)
Larry Bird (Indiana State)
Magic Johnson (Michigan State)
Mike Gminski (Duke)
Sidney Moncrief (Arkansas)

2nd Team
Bill Cartwright (San Francisco)
Calvin Natt (Louisiana-Monroe)
Jim Paxson (Dayton)
Jim Spanarkel (Duke)
Kelly Tripucka (Notre Dame)
Mike O'Koren (North Carolina)
Sly Williams (Rhode Island)

[ramster]

If we want to examine many years of history, I believe that URI may only trail UConn in all-time wins for the D1 Men's basketball programs of New England. Rhody has an all-time win total of 1541. It used to be listed as a blurb in game notes.

That's kind of a longevity statistic, no?

It's neat, but it's how I feel about a lot of statistics now-a-days.

I mean, whose scoring mark is more impressive, Ernie Calverley or EC Mathews?

But whose higher in the record books?

That was my point. I stated that when the Big East was started, URI was the best team in New England. That's a fact. The other PC poster decided to include the entire decade for some reason. Why is that relevant to what was specifically going on the 1978-1979? I didn't say anything about 1970-1977. It was irrelevant to the start of the Big East, which is what we are discussing.

Here were the standings of all New England D1 Teams in 1978-1979. There were only 256 D1 Schools then:

Rk School Conf W L
43 Rhode Island Ind 20 9
82 Connecticut Ind 21 8
104 Boston College Ind 21 9
115 Fairfield Ind 17 9
121 Holy Cross Ind 17 11
125 Boston University Ind 17 9
166 Maine Ind 14 10
170 Yale Ivy 11 15
176 Dartmouth Ivy 14 12
190 Northeastern Ind 13 13
211 Brown Ivy 8 18
212 Providence Ind 10 16
218 Harvard Ivy 8 21
220 Massachusetts EAA 5 22
228 New Hampshire Ind 10 16
242 Vermont Ind 8 18

[rjsuperfly66]

I guess it's all a matter of perspective ... When I hear "Best Team" I think "Best Program." When I think "Best Program," I typically am thinking about a sustained period, not a one or two season sample size.

Yes, I will acknowledge that URI team was the best team in NE during the 78-79. I don't think that made them the better program at that time, but the team was set-up to have a nice run.

I also don't begrudge the pursuit of money back then, but that is a different conversation.

[ramster]

Here is 1977-1978 with URI also the best team in New England. This was BillyBoy’s point. As he said he doesn’t understand why anyone would want to go back 10 or 20 years when he was making the point that at the time Dave Gavitt formed the Big East (to help reduce his Losing of Sly Williams nightmares) URI was the Class of New England.



Rk
▲ School Conf W L
62 Rhode Island Ind 24 7
70 Providence Ind 24 8
75 Holy Cross Ind 20 7
92 Fairfield Ind 22 5
130 Massachusetts EAA (East) 15 12
141 Boston College Ind 15 11
190 Maine Ind 17 8
197 Connecticut Ind 11 15
205 Harvard Ivy 11 15
208 Dartmouth Ivy 10 16
215 Northeastern Ind 14 12
224 Yale Ivy 8 16 64.1
238 New Hampshire Ind 7 19
239 Boston University Ind 10 15
241 Brown Ivy 4 22 67.9
243 Vermont Ind 11 15

[Billyboy78]

Here is 1977-1978 with URI also the best team in New England. This was BillyBoy’s point. As he said he doesn’t understand why anyone would want to go back 10 or 20 years when he was making the point that at the time Dave Gavitt formed the Big East (to help reduce his Losing of Sly Williams nightmares) URI was the Class of New England.



Rk
▲ School Conf W L
62 Rhode Island Ind 24 7
70 Providence Ind 24 8
75 Holy Cross Ind 20 7
92 Fairfield Ind 22 5
130 Massachusetts EAA (East) 15 12
141 Boston College Ind 15 11
190 Maine Ind 17 8
197 Connecticut Ind 11 15
205 Harvard Ivy 11 15
208 Dartmouth Ivy 10 16
215 Northeastern Ind 14 12
224 Yale Ivy 8 16 64.1
238 New Hampshire Ind 7 19
239 Boston University Ind 10 15
241 Brown Ivy 4 22 67.9
243 Vermont Ind 11 15

Right. That's my point. We were on the rise, getting talent like we never had before (like Sly and Jiggy from CT). IMO opinion, that's the best team we've ever had. Why couldn't that have continued? Kraft then recruited 2 more great players in Pappy and Upshaw. Then it stopped. Was it a coincidence that we were now recruiting against the shiny new league? Of course not. And as far as best record during those 2 years, was it because we didn't play a tough schedule? No, we played a great schedule. Look it up.

[Ramulous]

My totally biased belief is that Rhody was excluded for reasons personal to Dave Gavitt....with him having an out by saying it was due to television markets....that didn't stop Boston College and Holy Cross....all within an hour's ride from Providence...being invited...

Seton Hall and St John's shared the same vicinity geographically, albeit in a huge television market...

Connecticut didn't bring in a huge television market either...

All these schools had been long-standing traditional rivals for Rhody.....some people believed Gavitt made his invites based somewhat on the racial, ethnic, and religious backgrounds of the key administrators of the schools....together with diminishing his closest rival that he was frequently recruiting against...

[hrstrat57]

The “perspective” is simple and crystal clear.

When the big east was formed URI was the best team in the region and on a upward trend.

Crystal clear and indisputable.

Fast forward 41 years and we have the finest on campus arena in the region and are once again on a upward move.

Go Rhody.

[rjsuperfly66]

The “perspective” is simple and crystal clear.

When the big east was formed URI was the best team in the region and on a upward trend.

Crystal clear and indisputable.

Fast forward 41 years and we have the finest on campus arena in the region and are once again on a upward move.

Go Rhody.

They had the best season. They did not have the best program. Again, slight distinction. Perspective.

[rjsuperfly66]

My totally biased belief is that Rhody was excluded for reasons personal to Dave Gavitt....with him having an out by saying it was due to television markets....that didn't stop Boston College and Holy Cross....all within an hour's ride from Providence...being invited...

Seton Hall and St John's shared the same vicinity geographically, albeit in a huge television market...

Connecticut didn't bring in a huge television market either...

All these schools had been long-standing traditional rivals for Rhody.....some people believed Gavitt made his invites based somewhat on the racial, ethnic, and religious backgrounds of the key administrators of the schools....together with diminishing his closest rival that he was frequently recruiting against...

I'm not going to rule out your theory, but there is a big difference between the Providence media market (some 550,000 households that would have been shared by PC/URI), the Hartford market (some 900,000 households that UCONN grabbed), the Boston Market (some 2.3 million households that BC and HC would have shared), and the New York market (some 7 million households that SJU/SHU share).

[ramster]

Highest ranked team in New England for 1977-1978 and for 1978-1979. Not one season, but two seasons as the indisputable best team in New England - then in May 1979 Gavitt had had enough of the Sly Williams saga and founded his Big East.

Indisputable

[Ramulous]

Think about what history would have been if Rhody was the architect of the big east and providence had been left out of the equation....

they would be with holy cross and fairfield and other smaller catholic schools in that level of conference...

It is a testament to Rhody to have survived the indignity of exclusion from their traditional rivals to survive over the years and be at a level which is not quite the big east but in a conference which in most seasons gets multiple bids to the NCAA tournament.....could providence have done that?

[steviep123]

My totally biased belief is that Rhody was excluded for reasons personal to Dave Gavitt....with him having an out by saying it was due to television markets....that didn't stop Boston College and Holy Cross....all within an hour's ride from Providence...being invited...

Seton Hall and St John's shared the same vicinity geographically, albeit in a huge television market...

Connecticut didn't bring in a huge television market either...

All these schools had been long-standing traditional rivals for Rhody.....some people believed Gavitt made his invites based somewhat on the racial, ethnic, and religious backgrounds of the key administrators of the schools....together with diminishing his closest rival that he was frequently recruiting against...

I'm not going to rule out your theory, but there is a big difference between the Providence media market (some 550,000 households that would have been shared by PC/URI), the Hartford market (some 900,000 households that UCONN grabbed), the Boston Market (some 2.3 million households that BC and HC would have shared), and the New York market (some 7 million households that SJU/SHU share).

This might be splitting hairs but is HC in the same market is BC or is Worcester considered a different market?

[RF1]

Think about what history would have been if Rhody was the architect of the big east and providence had been left out of the equation....

they would be with holy cross and fairfield and other smaller catholic schools in that level of conference...

It is a testament to Rhody to have survived the indignity of exclusion from their traditional rivals to survive over the years and be at a level which is not quite the big east but in a conference which in most seasons gets multiple bids to the NCAA tournament.....could providence have done that?

It is interesting to note that even with PC's inclusion in the Big East, it hasn't exactly translated to a lot of success in the NCAA Tournament. The Friars have the SAME number of NCAA wins (8) as URI since the BIg East was formed in the 1979-80 season.

[rjsuperfly66]

My totally biased belief is that Rhody was excluded for reasons personal to Dave Gavitt....with him having an out by saying it was due to television markets....that didn't stop Boston College and Holy Cross....all within an hour's ride from Providence...being invited...

Seton Hall and St John's shared the same vicinity geographically, albeit in a huge television market...

Connecticut didn't bring in a huge television market either...

All these schools had been long-standing traditional rivals for Rhody.....some people believed Gavitt made his invites based somewhat on the racial, ethnic, and religious backgrounds of the key administrators of the schools....together with diminishing his closest rival that he was frequently recruiting against...

I'm not going to rule out your theory, but there is a big difference between the Providence media market (some 550,000 households that would have been shared by PC/URI), the Hartford market (some 900,000 households that UCONN grabbed), the Boston Market (some 2.3 million households that BC and HC would have shared), and the New York market (some 7 million households that SJU/SHU share).

This might be splitting hairs but is HC in the same market is BC or is Worcester considered a different market?

I thought it was different but Worcester County is considered a part of the Boston media market.

[rjsuperfly66]

Highest ranked team in New England for 1977-1978 and for 1978-1979. Not one season, but two seasons as the indisputable best team in New England - then in May 1979 Gavitt had had enough of the Sly Williams saga and founded his Big East.

Indisputable

Yes, fine, not disputing that information. Doesn't translate to best program, sorry...

Creating the BE was a great decision he made. If he didn't do it, someone else would have.

As alluded to elsewhere in this thread, who knows what happens or how things shake out with others in command.

[ramster]

Highest ranked team in New England for 1977-1978 and for 1978-1979. Not one season, but two seasons as the indisputable best team in New England - then in May 1979 Gavitt had had enough of the Sly Williams saga and founded his Big East.

Indisputable

Yes, fine, not disputing that information. Doesn't translate to best program, sorry...

Creating the BE was a great decision he made. If he didn't do it, someone else would have.

As alluded to elsewhere in this thread, who knows what happens or how things shake out with others in command.

and this is what BillyBoy said..........he said URI was the best team in New England. He did not say Program or mean to go back 10 years. Then PCFriar and you both objected. Fact is URI was the best team in New England the 2 years before the BE was formed in May 1979.

Never.....Dave Gavitt. As far as consistency, when the Big East formed, URI was the best team in New England, better than PC, better than UConn.