The Transfer Carousel - 2020-21

[ramster]

You should cut Depaul loose and replace with St Louis, Dayton or another
DePaul is always at the bottom and they have a loser Head Coach and the Athletic Director is way past her time to get fired.

That’s your Fordham. Cut bait.

I don't want to go too far down this rabbit hole, but I did want to address this statement. I do think there is a large difference between DePaul and Fordham.

I don't endorse DePaul's play in the last decade plus, but for a pretty strong conference like the Big East has been, it's kind of nice to know there is a cupcake at the bottom (although that cupcake has fared pretty well against PC). Using KenPom for quick reference, in the past 5 years, there have been 5 teams with a KenPom higher than 100, so essentially one per season.

That is very different than a team like Fordham. If my KenPom math was correct, there have been 44 A10 teams over 5 years which have had a KenPom higher than 100, or essentially nine per season. So finding ways to get teams more consistently in the Top 100 for the A10 is a much more important task, which is why people talk about a school like Fordham who has never had a Top 100 KenPom in the history of his metric (1997) and has only had one Top 200 season since 2009.

It’s easy to suggest that other conferences should stop their bottom team(s) but quite another when it’s suggested for your own conference as I did with DePaul. I figured you would be defensive on the suggestion.

DePaul is well below the other 9 of 11 BE teams, and St Johns isn’t too hot either but the gave the NYC market.

I don’t expect the BE to jettison DePaul any more than I expect the A10 to jettison Fordham - it just doesn’t happen that Conference get rid of the bottom teams. But it gets a ton of discussion every year.

[rjsuperfly66]

It’s easy to suggest that other conferences should stop their bottom team(s) but quite another when it’s suggested for your own conference.

DePaul is well below the other 9 teams, and St Johns isn’t too hot either.

I don’t expect the BE to jettison DePaul any more than I expect the A10 to jettison Fordham - it just doesn’t happen that Conference get rid of the bottom teams.

I understand where you are coming from and also agree that it's unlikely to happen.

I also agree DePaul is well below their other BE foes.

But as I said, I do think there is a big difference between having one perenially bad team in a conference of 10 (now 11), and having 6, 7, 8, or 9 bad teams in a conference of 14.

If the Big East was in a situation where DePaul, St. John's, Georgetown, and ___ (insert team 4) were all really bad year after year, I think the Big East would have to have their own dialogue on how to improve the conference strength.

[rambone 78]

The A10 should be having a dialogue to discuss how to improve the conference's strength.

Maybe they are, but NOTHING has been done to address it.

The longer it goes on, with so many weak programs, the less at large bids.

[SGreenwell]

You should cut Depaul loose and replace with St Louis, Dayton or another
DePaul is always at the bottom and they have a loser Head Coach and the Athletic Director is way past her time to get fired.

That’s your Fordham. Cut bait.

I don't want to go too far down this rabbit hole, but I did want to address this statement. I do think there is a large difference between DePaul and Fordham.

I don't endorse DePaul's play in the last decade plus, but for a pretty strong conference like the Big East has been, it's kind of nice to know there is a cupcake at the bottom (although that cupcake has fared pretty well against PC). Using KenPom for quick reference, in the past 5 years, there have been 5 teams with a KenPom higher than 100, so essentially one per season.

That is very different than a team like Fordham. If my KenPom math was correct, there have been 44 A10 teams over 5 years which have had a KenPom higher than 100, or essentially nine per season. So finding ways to get teams more consistently in the Top 100 for the A10 is a much more important task, which is why people talk about a school like Fordham who has never had a Top 100 KenPom in the history of his metric (1997) and has only had one Top 200 season since 2009.

I would agree with this. To me, DePaul is a program that's been managed badly, but can still compete if the circumstances line up correctly. I haven't gotten any real indication that Fordham can compete consistently in the Atlantic 10, and at this point, the period of time has been so long (20+ years) that I assume it is something environment or administrative-related that isn't going to change.

[ramster]

You should cut Depaul loose and replace with St Louis, Dayton or another
DePaul is always at the bottom and they have a loser Head Coach and the Athletic Director is way past her time to get fired.

That’s your Fordham. Cut bait.

I don't want to go too far down this rabbit hole, but I did want to address this statement. I do think there is a large difference between DePaul and Fordham.

I don't endorse DePaul's play in the last decade plus, but for a pretty strong conference like the Big East has been, it's kind of nice to know there is a cupcake at the bottom (although that cupcake has fared pretty well against PC). Using KenPom for quick reference, in the past 5 years, there have been 5 teams with a KenPom higher than 100, so essentially one per season.

That is very different than a team like Fordham. If my KenPom math was correct, there have been 44 A10 teams over 5 years which have had a KenPom higher than 100, or essentially nine per season. So finding ways to get teams more consistently in the Top 100 for the A10 is a much more important task, which is why people talk about a school like Fordham who has never had a Top 100 KenPom in the history of his metric (1997) and has only had one Top 200 season since 2009.

I would agree with this. To me, DePaul is a program that's been managed badly, but can still compete if the circumstances line up correctly. I haven't gotten any real indication that Fordham can compete consistently in the Atlantic 10, and at this point, the period of time has been so long (20+ years) that I assume it is something environment or administrative-related that isn't going to change.

The point I’m trying to make us that no matter how much posters talk about it Conferences do not cut the bottom dweller teams. They do it in European Soccer and bring teams up from lower leagues

It’s never going to happen to Fordham or to DePaul

[rjsuperfly66]

Conferences cannot simply remove teams, I think that is fairly obvious unless teams decided to split, which could, but is unlikely to happen.

But, don't conferences have mandatory expense thresholds? or mandatory facility thresholds? It's not as publicized in basketball, but in football, don't different leagues require different stadium sizes in addition to the mandatory FBS attendance requirements?

I guess my point is, can't conference teams just come together with a vote requiring certain mandatory expenditures, basketball stadium requirements, etc. that if a team cannot meet, they have to ask themselves to leave?

[ramster]

I don't know.
I agree that the A10 has several teams at the bottom holding the Conference back while the BE has DePaul and maybe St Johns.

But if you can't even get rid of Fordham then the conversation about jettisoning 3-4 teams is impossible.

URI would be better to focus on building their own facilities, their own brand and if/when new conference realignments take place then URI has gotten themselves in a position of power/leverage.

The Pandemic is going to have Schools looking to be more geographic in nature, Maybe go back and explore previous rivalries. Schools closer together.

What sense does it make to travel to Creighton, St Louis? Too far away.

But Football drives the bus.

[steviep123]

I do know at some point, the A10 was making sure their teams were playing a strong OOC schedule, though I don't recall how it could possibly be enforced. This helped them get an extra bid or two some years. I am going back and I don't know if that's still in place (probably not).

[RIFan]

One more possible unintended impact of all these transfers on schools like URI is all time records may be safe, probably will not have as many 1,000 point or X assists ceremonies. Sad...

[ramster]

10 Teams to benefit most from transfer rule includes 3 BE Teams Marquette, DePaul and PC

https://www.cbssports.com/college-baske ... lity-rule/

[rambone 78]

We should be at the top of that list....

[Dino611]

We should be at the top of that list....

Agreed notice how there isn’t one team outside the P5, like cmon do some more research

[RamStock]

This talks about the transfer rule and what might happen now and going forward.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-baske ... rs-2020-21

[SmartyBarrett]

NCAA is gonna be FLOODED with waiver requests. Will be interesting to see how it all goes down.

[Rhody15]

I’d say there’s a 99.9% chance McClung wiggles his way into a waiver.

He’s a big name, going to a big time program, with his coach at his previous school getting the virus. Even though McClung announced he was transferring between Ewing even announced he was sick, I’m sure he’ll use it in his reasoning.

No reason he should get a waiver, but I’d bet a pretty hefty sum he’s somehow eligible next year.

[bigappleram]

I just saw Johnny Juzang a Kentucky transfer to UCLA was granted a waiver to play immediately, a few minutes ago. So clearly they will be granting waivers, and are already reviewing them. And of course the process will be secretive, random and subjective to stay on brand for the NCAA.

[Rhody15]

I just saw Johnny Juzang a Kentucky transfer to UCLA was granted a waiver to play immediately, a few minutes ago. So clearly they will be granting waivers, and are already reviewing them. And of course the process will be secretive, random and subjective to stay on brand for the NCAA.

He’s from the LA area so at least there’s something tangible to go off of with him.

I am surprised how quickly they got it done though

[rhodylaw]

Martin may have a shot at a waiver to play closer to home.

[RamStock]

Martin may have a shot at a waiver to play closer to home.

Cmon. It is less than 60 miles from URI to Uconn. This had nothing to do with Martin leaving URI for Uconn.

[bigappleram]

i assumed he meant Malik Martin

[RamStock]

i assumed he meant Malik Martin

Oh yeah-you are probably right. Either way this could get ridiculous with anyone traveling even 2 miles closer to home looking for a waiver. Neither Martin should get one in reality

[rjsuperfly66]

“He didn't talk about his role. He didn't talk about style of play.

He didn't say a single word about basketball.

When asked to explain the reasoning behind his transfer, McClung kept it simple and just said there were a "number of different events" that made him feel he had "no choice" but to leave Georgetown. Then he added that he "really wanted to stay" but that there were things that made him realize he "couldn't."

It was a perfect statement -- vague enough to not box himself in to any one story but clear enough to get it on record that McClung didn't want to transfer as much as he felt like he had no choice but to transfer. Whether it's sincere or not, I'll let others decide. But what McClung clearly did is give the NCAA absolutely nothing to use against him when he ultimately applies for a waiver to play next season.

Other transfers should be so smart.

Based on countless conversations with coaches, I've been banging this drum for years: the best way for a student-athlete to give himself a good chance to receive a transfer waiver is to never speak of basketball when asked about his decision to transfer. Yet time and time again, a player will announce his intention to change schools and publicly talk about his desire to play point guard or compete on a bigger stage or get more playing time. I can appreciate the honesty, I guess. But if the goal is to actually obtain a waiver to play immediately, it's just about the dumbest thing a basketball player can do.

Mac McClung avoided the dumb.

He played it right.

None of it guarantees it'll definitely lead to him getting a waiver to play immediately, of course. And, as I've said and written many times, it's a shame that McClung or anybody else is required to get a waiver. Hopefully, the NCAA will change that ridiculous rule in January and start treating basketball players the same way most student-athletes are treated. As always, we'll see. But there's no denying McClung has at least laid the groundwork for a successful waiver request. And if he really does have examples of "a number of different events" that made him feel he had "no choice" but to leave Georgetown, odds are he'll be suiting up next season for Texas Tech, a year before most other transfers will be allowed to play again.”

https://www.cbssports.com/college-baske ... ty-waiver/

[CHICO 78]

I guess we will find out if it is indeed the blue print. If he gets his waiver everyone will try to copy it.
If the NCAA says sorry that is not an acceptable reason please take a seat for 12 months then it is not.
He may have avoided the dumb but still not made a compelling enough case. Only time will tell.

[Rhody72]

His new school will make the request, not the athlete.

[Rhody72]

Institutions of higher education would be better off if they eliminated the scourge of athletic scholarships, TV contracts, and national championships with payouts to participants. The notion of student-athlete is a joke; they are athlete students. The IRS should assess UBIT taxes on all athletic revenue.

Create minor leagues for those who want to pursue a career in athletics rather than attend college.

[rhodylaw]

Institutions of higher education would be better off if they eliminated the scourge of athletic scholarships, TV contracts, and national championships with payouts to participants. The notion of student-athlete is a joke; they are athlete students. The IRS should assess UBIT taxes on all athletic revenue.

Create minor leagues for those who want to pursue a career in athletics rather than attend college.

Boooooo!!!!

[Rhody72]

...
Boooooo!!!!

Thanks for not arguing the facts or the truth!

[SGreenwell]

Institutions of higher education would be better off if they eliminated the scourge of athletic scholarships, TV contracts, and national championships with payouts to participants. The notion of student-athlete is a joke; they are athlete students. The IRS should assess UBIT taxes on all athletic revenue.

Create minor leagues for those who want to pursue a career in athletics rather than attend college.

I'm oddly on-board with you, in some ways, for once. Like, I can't deny that I enjoy watching college basketball and college football. However, they're both essentially feeder or minor leagues for professional sports. There isn't much justification for why kids can be pro tennis players at 18 (or younger), but not basketball or football players, besides "well that's how we've always done it in this country."

[phipsiGD'11]

I believe these rules are in place more to save the pro leagues more than anything else.

The NBA was signing HS kids in the first 2 rounds and paying them millions before seeing them play any games at a level outside AAU (which is INSANE on a management level).

College football is much different than basketball in college though. That will be interesting to see develop.

[Rhody15]

In no way shape or form should a high school kid be able to go straight to the NFL.

Physically it just couldn’t done. Obviously there are a few who could probably hold their own.

High to the NBA is totally different. We’ve seen it been done before.

[RamStock]

This could be another player we should pursue

[PeterRamTime]

This could be another player we should pursue

Come hither grad transfer!

Come to an even smaller, much prettier state!

[PeterRamTime]

In no way shape or form should a high school kid be able to go straight to the NFL.

Physically it just couldn’t done. Obviously there are a few who could probably hold their own.

High to the NBA is totally different. We’ve seen it been done before.

MAYBE a kicker or a punter could make it in the NFL out of high school.

Otherwise it is not possible.

[rhodylaw]

...
Boooooo!!!!

Thanks for not arguing the facts or the truth!

No problem! I agree with your sentiment that they are basically minor league teams now, but I still love college sports atmosphere and rooting for your school means so much more than rooting for the Kingston Rams. Will people come out to see the Ann Arbor Wolverines at the same level? Would a minor league football team even exist in Ann Arbor? Would these teams still be recruiting or are we doing a high school draft?

There is a lot to be fixed in college sports, kids should be able to market themselves while they have the attention of the fanbase, etc.

[Rhode_Island_Red]

This could be another player we should pursue

How could a grad transfer have two years of eligibility left?

[RamStock]

This could be another player we should pursue

How could a grad transfer have two years of eligibility left?

They said that he finished school in 3 years. One of the years I think he sat. Combination of summer school and completing curriculum in the three years with only two years playing. It is pretty rare

[sevegny7]

This could be another player we should pursue

How could a grad transfer have two years of eligibility left?

They said that he finished school in 3 years. One of the years I think he sat. Combination of summer school and completing curriculum in the three years with only two years playing. It is pretty rare

Yeah your right. He started at high point as a freshman. He then transferred to Delaware. He sat out one year then played one year for Delaware. As Ramstock mentioned he completed the curriculum fast by the summer courses most bball players take. Definitely rare and takes a smart kid.

[Rhody72]

No problem! I agree with your sentiment that they are basically minor league teams now, but I still love college sports atmosphere and rooting for your school means so much more than rooting for the Kingston Rams. Will people come out to see the Ann Arbor Wolverines at the same level? Would a minor league football team even exist in Ann Arbor? Would these teams still be recruiting or are we doing a high school draft?

There is a lot to be fixed in college sports, kids should be able to market themselves while they have the attention of the fanbase, etc.

How you knew I was a big "GO BLUE" fan I'll never know. As long as UM is competing against other BIG10 schools, 100K+ fans will show up at Zingerman's for every game. The NCAA's post season tournament and multi-million coaching salaries has made a mess of college athletics. Competing for a conference championship should be the final goal.

[rhodylaw]

No problem! I agree with your sentiment that they are basically minor league teams now, but I still love college sports atmosphere and rooting for your school means so much more than rooting for the Kingston Rams. Will people come out to see the Ann Arbor Wolverines at the same level? Would a minor league football team even exist in Ann Arbor? Would these teams still be recruiting or are we doing a high school draft?

There is a lot to be fixed in college sports, kids should be able to market themselves while they have the attention of the fanbase, etc.

How you knew I was a big "GO BLUE" fan I'll never know. As long as UM is competing against other BIG10 schools, 100K+ fans will show up at Zingerman's for every game. The NCAA's post season tournament and multi-million coaching salaries has made a mess of college athletics. Competing for a conference championship should be the final goal.

So under your scenario, the schools would still house the “minor league” teams but the players would not have to be students and get paid like a minor leaguer. I guess that kind of works in a weird way.

[SandorClegane]

Seems like the NCAA has handed out a number of waivers for no particular reason. I hope they’re pretty lenient this year as far as requirements. The Johnny Juzang one has me perplexed.

[Rhody15]

Seems like the NCAA has handed out a number of waivers for no particular reason. I hope they’re pretty lenient this year as far as requirements. The Johnny Juzang one has me perplexed.

Going to UCLA and he’s from LA. Not surprised with that one at all.

[ramster]

Seems like the NCAA has handed out a number of waivers for no particular reason. I hope they’re pretty lenient this year as far as requirements. The Johnny Juzang one has me perplexed.

Going to UCLA and he’s from LA. Not surprised with that one at all.

Juzang grew up in Tarzana, a section of Los Angelas. He went to Kentucky but didn't play a lot of minutes. Soon after the season ended he announced he would transfer and seek a waiver. It's the typical go to the Big Time School, not play as much as hoped, gets homesick for family, returns back to Los Angeles to play for the hometown school, UCLA. Not perplexing and is a good reason for gaining a waiver, unlike some others that are inexplicable.

[Billyboy78]

The twins' mom should move up here. They could then say they want a waiver to be close to their mom.

[ramster]

That would be a lot better than whatever story they are trying to tell now.

[SmartyBarrett]

This could be another player we should pursue

Rhody can certainly compete with most of these schools recruiting-wise.

[Running Ram]

The twins' mom should move up here. They could then say they want a waiver to be close to their mom.

I've heard worse ideas. I mean, it's also not the worst area to live in.

[rhodyfan3000]

Calling it now, Mutts to Wake Forest, for the same reason we lost Antonio to them. At least this time, we don't get the build up of it coming down to a "final two" that doesn't include Wake Forest, only for it to be WF in the end.

That's ok, no offense to our Dayton board member, but at least he isn't going to Dayton.

Still on the hunt for an impact grad transfer frontcourt player.

[Rhody15]

With only 7 eligible players as of now, why aren't we one of those teams listed who have reached out to Mutts? I'd think it would be a no brainer to at least reach out to gauge interest.

[rhodylaw]

With only 7 eligible players as of now, why aren't we one of those teams listed who have reached out to Mutts? I'd think it would be a no brainer to at least reach out to gauge interest.

I see four potential reasons:

1. Coaches are asleep at the wheel (I don't think this it).
2. We are going into stealth mode to get the player
3. We aren't recruiting him because there is another option we do not know publicly
4. Staff (or Fatts) do not like the player - Cox/Fatts should have an idea about his skills playing with Fatts and Cox scouting Fatts.

[rjsuperfly66]

With only 7 eligible players as of now, why aren't we one of those teams listed who have reached out to Mutts? I'd think it would be a no brainer to at least reach out to gauge interest.

I see four potential reasons:

1. Coaches are asleep at the wheel (I don't think this it).
2. We are going into stealth mode to get the player
3. We aren't recruiting him because there is another option we do not know publicly
4. Staff (or Fatts) do not like the player - Cox/Fatts should have an idea about his skills playing with Fatts and Cox scouting Fatts.

5) Cox put out feelers and didn't like what he heard (whatever that happened to be.)

Delaware coach is Martin Ingelsby. Ingelsby played high school basketball at Archbishop Carroll, graduated in 1997. David Cox was an assistant coach at Archbishop Carroll from 1996-1999. They were also both Big East assistant coaches at the same time, Ingelsby at Notre Dame and Cox at Georgetown and Rutgers (2009-2013). So there is likely a pretty strong relationship there where Cox could reach out and ask what Ingelsby thought.