Scrap the Offense

Mark Macon · Unread post by **Mark Macon** » 5 years ago

This is the worst shooting basketball team in the history of organized basketball.

However, they are athletic. Scrap the offense, start pressing and see what we can do forcing turnovers and in the transition game.

See Nolan Richardson/Arkansas.

What do we have to lose at this point? Obviously, the shooting of said basketball is not going to improve and teams have the simplest of game plans for us. Junior high game plan.

I've never seen a team shoot this poorly. Maybe Dan knew what he had coming back (besides all that UConn offers etc. etc) and got out of dodge.

I just can't get over watching these guys miss so many open shots. It's in their head now and it 'aint' going away. It's like these kids have never shot at an actual basket before??? How can D-1 players miss this much (open/contested/awake/sleeping/eyes open/eyes closed).

Just my 2 Euros.

Peace.

RhodyRam86 · Unread post by **RhodyRam86** » 5 years ago

I'd say we get Mark Macon circa 1990. He was a great Owl.

That being unlikely, how about a little movement on offense? We have to be the easiest team in the country to guard. One guy posts up. One guy in one corner. Another in the other corner and Jeff and Fatts stand around dribbling up top looking for the open guy. This is nothing against Coach Cox. This has been the RAM way forever. I'm also going to single out Martin. While I think he is going to be a star, watch him move on offense. He slowly goes through the motions. My grandmother could stay with him. Nobody cuts hard to the basket or through the lane. We just don't put any pressure on opposing defenses.

SmartyBarrett · Unread post by **SmartyBarrett** » 5 years ago

Believe it or not (and I was surprised), URI's adjusted offense - per KenPom - is ranked in the upper half of the A-10. Sixth, to be exact, ahead of UMass, Duquesne, VCU, La Salle, Fordham, Saint Louis, St. Bonaventure, and George Washington. They've dipped slightly (to eighth) in A-10 play. They've shown positive signs... they hung 83 on West Virginia. They dropped 50 in the second half against VCU and 47 in the second half on the road at La Salle.

Is their offense struggling? Does it have issues? Of course. No sane person would say otherwise. And if you want to come back with negative stats and bad halves/games they've had, you certainly have a decent sample to pick from. But let's keep some perspective here... If you go by KenPom, this year's offense is statistically similar to the 2014-15 team.

sandman012 · Unread post by **sandman012** » 5 years ago

At the very least have a Plan B

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 5 years ago

The Oliver type stats support Macon's comments.

Player ratings are through Dayton game and they show us exactly what we are seeing and feeling about this team.

As a reminder, in the Offensive % category, a 100 rating is average and anything well below that number is very bad. The higher the usage number, the more the player is involved in possessions on the offense. The players are sequenced based on Overall Offensive Rating from highest to lowest.

Silverio was included because he is part of our Freshman class, but his stats are biased given his low PT. I did not include Preston for the same reason.

I don't show here the defensive % data, but a brief scan shows the stats for practically all the players are above 100 which tells us the Rams are a better defensive team overall other than Saturday's bad effort.

1. Offensive % - All Games
2. Offensive % - A10 
3. Usage % - All Games
4. Usage % - A10

Dowtin	        113.5	110.0	21.8	21.5
Tate          	105.1	101.4	14.3	14.1
Martin	        104.0	112.7	17.6	19.2
Langevine	103.2	105.6	24.9	25.1
Thompson 	 97.5	 84.7	14.6	14.2
Harris	         95.6	 78.3	15.1	16.2
Russell	         90.8	 89.3	26.5	24.9
Silverio	 81.5	118.5	17.7	17.2

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 5 years ago

I've re-done the stat chart to include the Defensive rating for A-10 games only. Ironically the defensive % is better per player in the A-10 versus the stats for all games.

1. Offensive % - All Games
2. Offensive % - A10 
3. Usage % - All Games
4. Usage % - A10
5. Defensive % - A10

Dowtin	        113.5	110.0	21.8	21.5   105.0
Tate          	105.1	101.4	14.3	14.1   101.4
Martin	        104.0	112.7	17.6	19.2   103.7
Langevine	103.2	105.6	24.9	25.1    98.7
Thompson 	 97.5	 84.7	14.6	14.2   105.7 
Harris	         95.6	 78.3	15.1	16.2   108.7
Russell	         90.8	 89.3	26.5	24.9   107.0
Silverio	 81.5	118.5	17.7	17.2   109.3

Rhodymob05 · Unread post by **Rhodymob05** » 5 years ago

I agree completely, let’s get something new out of the play book. We’ve seen enough.

section(105) · Unread post by **section(105)** » 5 years ago

........it seems we like to throw a lotta stuff at the offense/defense wall under the “what do we have to loose”......and hope something sticks.....changing and installing an offense plan at this point in the season is a challenge......not sure, from what I have seen that we actually something to scrap......maybe teach emphasize some player movements without the ball concepts......making the defense work and get out of position......the force the action, trap, press, up tempo defense for much of the game takes conditioning and deep rotations.......we got those on this bench?

SmartyBarrett · Unread post by **SmartyBarrett** » 5 years ago

Good stuff, Obadiah. That data seems to back up what I saw on KenPom -- Rhody's offense is pretty middle-of-the-road... there are some guys below the 100 line and some below. As a team, they're somewhere between 6th and 8th in the A-10. They need to improve for sure, but they're not historically bad and they're not in need of a complete blow up.

The Dude · Unread post by **The Dude** » 5 years ago

RhodyRam86 wrote: ↑5 years ago I'd say we get Mark Macon circa 1990. He was a great Owl.

That being unlikely, how about a little movement on offense? We have to be the easiest team in the country to guard. One guy posts up. One guy in one corner. Another in the other corner and Jeff and Fatts stand around dribbling up top looking for the open guy. This is nothing against Coach Cox. This has been the RAM way forever. I'm also going to single out Martin. While I think he is going to be a star, watch him move on offense. He slowly goes through the motions. My grandmother could stay with him. Nobody cuts hard to the basket or through the lane. We just don't put any pressure on opposing defenses.

Yup. This. Exactly. They looked even more stagnant against Dayton. When Fatts tossed the ball off Martin's back in that game it was apparent that guys aren't locked in at all. Most would blame Fatts. I blame both. Fatts should've saw he wasn't looking in his direction, but Martin wasn't even trying to look for a pass and was just jogging to a spot. It was pretty bad all around. Too lazy, too loose, too little tenacity. Although I will give Martin a bit of credit for waking up a bit in the 2nd half and for diving for a ball near the bench.

UCH21377 · Unread post by **UCH21377** » 5 years ago

I agree a change of pace is needed. If for no other reason than to get the guys focused and more aggressive. Maybe it will spill over into their shooting. Get them easier shots. Also, why not a zone? Zone press? The pre-tweet RP might be effective in a pressing situation. Plus, the guys that struggle so much in their defensive principles may be more successful in a zone (Yes, Silverio, maybe Preston too). Screw it play Leviton too. We need to shake things up a little bit, don't we? Nothing to lose at this point, best I can tell.

Rhode_Island_Red · Unread post by **Rhode_Island_Red** » 5 years ago

Here's the problem: We have one ballhandler, AND HE NEVER HANDLES THE GODDAMN BALL!

Fatts Russell is not a 30-minutes-a-game point guard -- in fact, he shouldn't be starting, period. Jeff Dowtin is one of the best point guards we've had in my 45-ish years of following URI basketball. The fact that Jeff can also score doesn't mean you take him off the ball. If anything, give him the ball for 32 minutes and let the other team decide whether to try to take away his playmaking or his scoring.

section(105) · Unread post by **section(105)** » 5 years ago

.......would love to see a Fatts not starting.......probably not going to happen, not so much his three attempts, but to to see what the offense would like like with Tate starting.....

DC_Rams · Unread post by **DC_Rams** » 5 years ago

section(105) wrote: ↑5 years ago .......would love to see a Fatts not starting.......probably not going to happen, not so much his three attempts, but to to see what the offense would like like with Tate starting.....

The last time Fatts didn’t start, we struggled in the half court offense. We need another shifty guard to take the pressure off Jeff.

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 5 years ago

Don't we always struggle in the half court offense?

DC_Rams · Unread post by **DC_Rams** » 5 years ago

Billyboy78 wrote: ↑5 years ago Don't we always struggle in the half court offense?

lol I knew that was coming. We don’t want Jeff double teamed, then he can’t score.

Rhodymob05 · Unread post by **Rhodymob05** » 5 years ago

Our offense=Cyril offensive rebounds for a bucket.

79RhodyFan · Unread post by **79RhodyFan** » 5 years ago

We only pass the ball to someone who is standing around. If someone cuts hard or sets a pick and rolls to the basket they never get the ball. Its no wonder why everyone stands around in our half court offense. Every game numerous time Harris will come up to top of the key set a pick and roll to the basket and call for the ball, no one ever even looks at him never mind pass him the ball.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 5 years ago

Obadiah wrote: ↑5 years ago I've re-done the stat chart to include the Defensive rating for A-10 games only. Ironically the defensive % is better per player in the A-10 versus the stats for all games.

1. Offensive % - All Games
2. Offensive % - A10 
3. Usage % - All Games
4. Usage % - A10
5. Defensive % - A10

Dowtin	        113.5	110.0	21.8	21.5   105.0
Tate          	105.1	101.4	14.3	14.1   101.4
Martin	        104.0	112.7	17.6	19.2   103.7
Langevine	103.2	105.6	24.9	25.1    98.7
Thompson 	 97.5	 84.7	14.6	14.2   105.7 
Harris	         95.6	 78.3	15.1	16.2   108.7
Russell	         90.8	 89.3	26.5	24.9   107.0
Silverio	 81.5	118.5	17.7	17.2   109.3

For the season, Fatts has the higher usage on the team and the worst offensive rating of anyone receiving regular minutes by a good amount.

I feel really bad blaming everything on Fatts because I really like the kid. But there is no way you can say that’s not a big part of the problem. For this team to improve, need his usage to come down and his rating to go up - even one or the other won’t help a lot unless the usage goes all the way down or his rating skyrockets in a way that isn’t even possible.

One other thought: Dana should be playing more. I’ve thought this for a while anyway, but this data is a useful reminder of that.

SmartyBarrett · Unread post by **SmartyBarrett** » 5 years ago

Even more horrifying than the usage rate (which can sometimes be skewed) is the percentage of shots taken.

Percentage of shots taken (%Shots): This is the percentage of a team’s shots taken, while the player is on the court. It is PlayerFGA / (%Min * TeamFGA).

Pretty straightforward and easy to calculate. Here are URI's season numbers:

Russell - 27.2%
Dowtin - 23.7%
Langevine - 21.2%
Martin - 19.2%
Silverio - 17.6%
Tate - 17.4%
Thompson - 14.8%
Harris - 12.2%
Preston - 12.0%

hrstrat57 · Unread post by **hrstrat57** » 5 years ago

SmartyBarrett wrote: ↑5 years ago Even more horrifying than the usage rate (which can sometimes be skewed) is the percentage of shots taken.

Percentage of shots taken (%Shots): This is the percentage of a team’s shots taken, while the player is on the court. It is PlayerFGA / (%Min * TeamFGA).

Pretty straightforward and easy to calculate. Here are URI's season numbers:

Russell - 27.2%
Dowtin - 23.7%
Langevine - 21.2%
Martin - 19.2%
Silverio - 17.6%
Tate - 17.4%
Thompson - 14.8%
Harris - 12.2%
Preston - 12.0%

Interesting numbers, eye test would have had Thompson a lot higher %.

This is a useful stat for the coaching staff, hopefully they have it. Some easy adjustment could result in a bit of a quick fix leading to extra buckets

Good post, thx.

adam914 · Unread post by **adam914** » 5 years ago

SmartyBarrett wrote: ↑5 years ago Even more horrifying than the usage rate (which can sometimes be skewed) is the percentage of shots taken.

Percentage of shots taken (%Shots): This is the percentage of a team’s shots taken, while the player is on the court. It is PlayerFGA / (%Min * TeamFGA).

Pretty straightforward and easy to calculate. Here are URI's season numbers:

Russell - 27.2%
Dowtin - 23.7%
Langevine - 21.2%
Martin - 19.2%
Silverio - 17.6%
Tate - 17.4%
Thompson - 14.8%
Harris - 12.2%
Preston - 12.0%

Harris simply has to be higher than that at this point in the season.

theblueram · Unread post by **theblueram** » 5 years ago

Does anyone think Martin can handle the 2G?

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 5 years ago

theblueram wrote: ↑5 years ago Does anyone think Martin can handle the 2G?

Of course
Starting line up should be, imho.

Langevine
Harris
Tate
Martin
Dowtin

Martin and Tate take on the rolls on the wings similar to Mathews, Terrell, Robinson, Thompson

3 Freshmen in the starting line up
Dowtin PG

Harris 30 mpg as foul situation permits

Russell 1st off bench

Nothing to lose at this point

theblueram · Unread post by **theblueram** » 5 years ago

Yeah I agree Ramster. Something has to give because what's being rolled out there doesn't give me a warm, NCAAT type feeling for next year.

wpbrown8267 · Unread post by **wpbrown8267** » 5 years ago

ramster wrote: ↑5 years ago
theblueram wrote: ↑5 years ago Does anyone think Martin can handle the 2G?
Of course
Starting line up should be, imho.

Langevine
Harris
Tate
Martin
Dowtin

Martin and Tate take on the rolls on the wings similar to Mathews, Terrell, Robinson, Thompson

3 Freshmen in the starting line up
Dowtin PG

Harris 30 mpg as foul situation permits

Russell 1st off bench

Nothing to lose at this point

Agreed, this is spot on

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 5 years ago

Plus why even wait til next year. Try something different. Let the freshmen loose. Never know when the A10 Tournament comes around. There are no dominating teams. Strangely enough, we could win it. But not with the current line up. Need unselfish play, good rebounding which Tate, Martin and Dowtin would provide from the guards, better potential 3 point shooting, better passing, better defense.
Have to take chances now - can’t afford to stay status quo and hope to win the A10 Tourney.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 5 years ago

I think that is our best lineup right now, but I do worry that if you move Fatts to the bench if he just checks out on you. He’d have to buy in, because like it or not you need him. On the other hand, if we think morale is already so low that it has nowhere to go but up then maybe it doesn’t even matter.

RhodyKyle · Unread post by **RhodyKyle** » 5 years ago

ramster wrote: ↑5 years ago Plus why even wait til next year. Try something different. Let the freshmen loose. Never know when the A10 Tournament comes around. There are no dominating teams. Strangely enough, we could win it. But not with the current line up. Need unselfish play, good rebounding which Tate, Martin and Dowtin would provide from the guards, better potential 3 point shooting, better passing, better defense.
Have to take chances now - can’t afford to stay status quo and hope to win the A10 Tourney.

This ^^^^ this is the correct answer.

Shinze88 · Unread post by **Shinze88** » 5 years ago

ramster wrote: ↑5 years ago
theblueram wrote: ↑5 years ago Does anyone think Martin can handle the 2G?
Of course
Starting line up should be, imho.

Langevine
Harris
Tate
Martin
Dowtin

Martin and Tate take on the rolls on the wings similar to Mathews, Terrell, Robinson, Thompson

3 Freshmen in the starting line up
Dowtin PG

Harris 30 mpg as foul situation permits

Russell 1st off bench

Nothing to lose at this point

Agree that there is nothing to lose at this point and things need to be shaken up, but that could be cringe worthy watching that starting 5 in the half court offense. I dont see how Fatts is not a starter on this team. Yes, he needs to stop shooting and play more to his strengths, but I just dont see how you can keep him on the bench to start the game. Langevine, Harris, Tate & Martin combined have 60 assists this year to 81 for Fatts. Not sure how this team would be able to function with only 1 ball handler on the floor, such a contrast to last year where you had at least 6 capable ball handlers on the roster

section(105) · Unread post by **section(105)** » 5 years ago

........if Fatts checks out as suggested might happen, then that’s all you need to know about a Fatts......

theblueram · Unread post by **theblueram** » 5 years ago

It's a tough decision, but at this point DC needs to be thinking about next year. CL and Jeff will be seniors. We need a team that will fight for the NCAAT next year.

URI2006_Andy · Unread post by **URI2006_Andy** » 5 years ago

There’s no rule against having one of your best players come off the bench. It’s whatever works.

We lack a dynamic player coming off the bench. Fatts would be that guy.

We lack an identity. And a big starting lineup with a dynamic guard off the bench may be it.

I also think Harris should get more minutes with Langevine on the bench. Harris’ best half was vs WV when Langevine was in foul trouble. Not a knock against Langevine, I just feel it would be better for the team as a whole. I felt the same 2 years ago as I thought Cyril should take more of Hassan’s minutes. Sometimes relying on a post player to get a touch slows the whole team down no matter how good that player may be.

DC_Rams · Unread post by **DC_Rams** » 5 years ago

theblueram wrote: ↑5 years ago Does anyone think Martin can handle the 2G?

Absolutely NOT. He is not a good ball handler, and I love the kid.

URI2006_Andy · Unread post by **URI2006_Andy** » 5 years ago

DC_Rams wrote: ↑5 years ago
theblueram wrote: ↑5 years ago Does anyone think Martin can handle the 2G?
Absolutely NOT. He is not a good ball handler, and I love the kid.

We don’t have 2G on this team. We’re either giving up shooting and height or giving up ball-handling. We’ve tried one way. Why not give the other a try?

theblueram · Unread post by **theblueram** » 5 years ago

DC_Rams wrote: ↑5 years ago
theblueram wrote: ↑5 years ago Does anyone think Martin can handle the 2G?
Absolutely NOT. He is not a good ball handler, and I love the kid.

I hope DC has a list of potential grad transfers in his hand then. Cause we are going to need a 2G next year.

DC_Rams · Unread post by **DC_Rams** » 5 years ago

theblueram wrote: ↑5 years ago
DC_Rams wrote: ↑5 years ago
theblueram wrote: ↑5 years ago Does anyone think Martin can handle the 2G?
Absolutely NOT. He is not a good ball handler, and I love the kid.
I hope DC has a list of potential grad transfers in his hand then. Cause we are going to need a 2G next year.

I pray the same. I highly doubt he’s sitting on his hands. He sees what we all see, a dozen times over when they watch film.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 5 years ago

DC_Rams wrote: ↑5 years ago
theblueram wrote: ↑5 years ago
DC_Rams wrote: ↑5 years ago

Absolutely NOT. He is not a good ball handler, and I love the kid.
I hope DC has a list of potential grad transfers in his hand then. Cause we are going to need a 2G next year.
I pray the same. I highly doubt he’s sitting on his hands. He sees what we all see, a dozen times over when they watch film.

DC Rams,
I remember when Jeff Dowtin came here his freshman year and several said no way was he a point guard. Earlier this year someone posted Martin was ok but should never shoot a 3 pointer.

Last year Stanford played some PG when almost nobody would have thought he could play that position.
I get confused in today’s game the difference between a 2 and a 3. To me they are about the same. Need to be able to handle the ball, shoot the 3 effectively, pass well, rebound, an all around game.
Terrell, Mathews, Robinson were all similar in height and all around ability. Seems Tate and Martin are now expected to take on roles similar to Mathews, Terrell and Robinson, true?

If Dowtin goes to PG like he should, then another guard position opens up. I think Fatts is not tall enough to be long term effective in the 2 or 3 slot but can play this 2 spot at times.

ElmCityRhody · Unread post by **ElmCityRhody** » 5 years ago

I will never understand how you take a GREAT PG and change his position

It’s idiotic at best

theblueram · Unread post by **theblueram** » 5 years ago

ramster wrote: ↑5 years ago
DC_Rams wrote: ↑5 years ago
theblueram wrote: ↑5 years ago

I hope DC has a list of potential grad transfers in his hand then. Cause we are going to need a 2G next year.
I pray the same. I highly doubt he’s sitting on his hands. He sees what we all see, a dozen times over when they watch film.
DC Rams,
I remember when Jeff Dowtin came here his freshman year and several said no way was he a point guard. Earlier this year someone posted Martin was ok but should never shoot a 3 pointer.

Last year Stanford played some PG when almost nobody would have thought he could play that position.
I get confused in today’s game the difference between a 2 and a 3. To me they are about the same. Need to be able to handle the ball, shoot the 3 effectively, pass well, rebound, an all around game.
Terrell, Mathews, Robinson were all similar in height and all around ability. Seems Tate and Martin are now expected to take on roles similar to Mathews, Terrell and Robinson, true?

If Dowtin goes to PG like he should, then another guard position opens up. I think Fatts is not tall enough to be long term effective in the 2 or 3 slot but can play this 2 spot at times.

Who was our point guard when Murph got injured?

SmartyBarrett · Unread post by **SmartyBarrett** » 5 years ago

Feel free to start another thread with this, but it's worth mentioning that the offense is just *one* of the problems. URI has gone from a Top 50 defense in non-conference play to currently 111th in the nation. That's a hell of a drop. They're 10th out of 14 in the A-10 in conference play, and their vaunted 3PT defense is 13th out of 14 in A-10 only games.

15 Year Lurker · Unread post by **15 Year Lurker** » 5 years ago

theblueram wrote: ↑5 years ago Does anyone think Martin can handle the 2G?

I would love to see him at the 2 and Tate at the 3.

theblueram · Unread post by **theblueram** » 5 years ago

15 Year Lurker wrote: ↑5 years ago
theblueram wrote: ↑5 years ago Does anyone think Martin can handle the 2G?
I would love to see him at the 2 and Tate at the 3.

6'3
6'6
6'7
6'8
6'8

Big line up.

McRam · Unread post by **McRam** » 5 years ago

79RhodyFan wrote: ↑5 years ago We only pass the ball to someone who is standing around. If someone cuts hard or sets a pick and rolls to the basket they never get the ball. Its no wonder why everyone stands around in our half court offense. Every game numerous time Harris will come up to top of the key set a pick and roll to the basket and call for the ball, no one ever even looks at him never mind pass him the ball.

I'll say it again, Just get Jermaine the ball in the low post 6-8 times a game. Is there something I am missing? Why not?

McRam · Unread post by **McRam** » 5 years ago

theblueram wrote: ↑5 years ago
15 Year Lurker wrote: ↑5 years ago
theblueram wrote: ↑5 years ago Does anyone think Martin can handle the 2G?
I would love to see him at the 2 and Tate at the 3.
6'3
6'6
6'7
6'8
6'8

Big line up.

And with the length might make for an effective zone- Doubt Tate can play the 3 or the 3rd guard that most teams play, but could be different in a zone.

ElmCityRhody · Unread post by **ElmCityRhody** » 5 years ago

McRam wrote: ↑5 years ago
79RhodyFan wrote: ↑5 years ago We only pass the ball to someone who is standing around. If someone cuts hard or sets a pick and rolls to the basket they never get the ball. Its no wonder why everyone stands around in our half court offense. Every game numerous time Harris will come up to top of the key set a pick and roll to the basket and call for the ball, no one ever even looks at him never mind pass him the ball.
I'll say it again, Just get Jermaine the ball in the low post 6-8 times a game. Is there something I am missing? Why not?

agreed - and have him face the rim

KevanBoyles · Unread post by **KevanBoyles** » 5 years ago

Didn’t DH slow doe the offense the first couple of years to make sure the focus was on defense? Does anyone else remember this? If so, what specifically did he stop them from doing on the offensive end? My recollection is not specific.

RhodyFanNotAlum · Unread post by **RhodyFanNotAlum** » 5 years ago

You guys can believe KenPom, I’ll believe my eyes.

reef · Unread post by **reef** » 5 years ago

Do we have room for a grad transfer ?? Find a knock down shooter

the_one_mike · Unread post by **the_one_mike** » 5 years ago

Rhode_Island_Red wrote: ↑5 years ago Here's the problem: We have one ballhandler, AND HE NEVER HANDLES THE GODDAMN BALL!

Fatts Russell is not a 30-minutes-a-game point guard -- in fact, he shouldn't be starting, period. Jeff Dowtin is one of the best point guards we've had in my 45-ish years of following URI basketball. The fact that Jeff can also score doesn't mean you take him off the ball. If anything, give him the ball for 32 minutes and let the other team decide whether to try to take away his playmaking or his scoring.

ramster wrote: ↑5 years ago

Of course
Starting line up should be, imho.

Langevine
Harris
Tate
Martin
Dowtin

Martin and Tate take on the rolls on the wings similar to Mathews, Terrell, Robinson, Thompson

3 Freshmen in the starting line up
Dowtin PG

Harris 30 mpg as foul situation permits

Russell 1st off bench

Nothing to lose at this point

So much yes to both of these posts. This change needs to happen now.