Big East - Basketball Only Schools Leaving

seanmc94 · Unread post by **seanmc94** » 11 years ago

Rumor is ND joins for one year to bridge until the ACC.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

RIFan, what worries me most, is what it could mean for the Hurleys. If we end up a glorified NEC, would they stay? A worse TV deal, tougher to recruit, less tourney bids, less money to pay them?

It would dramatically increase the odds that they leave sooner rather than later.

I know some have downplayed it, but conference affiliation is VERY important. This is NOT what they came here for.

We need reassurance, somehow. All eyes will be on the A10 offices this spring/summer.

If we go into next season minus X and Butler, which we will, and not knowing anything about what will be done to save the A10, it's going to put a BIG damper on next season.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Sean, I know, but who cares? Doesn't change anything regarding us.

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

I have the same concerns. But I have been glass is half empty on this the whole time. I wish I was as optimistic as Rod.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

Very upsetting to think how the league will be weakened by the time Dan hoped tto make his first NCAA run. Sickening.

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 11 years ago

seanmc94 wrote:Rumor is ND joins for one year to bridge until the ACC.

You would think ND's preference is just to get out of dodge while the fireworks are going on. I doubt the 2013-14 ACC schedule is done yet and, of course, the ACC would take them a year early in heartbeat.
I think this probably shakes down as sort of a game of chicken between the CAA and the A10. I still think the A10 plus the cream of the CAA is better than the converse and that wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. It's still a good basketball league. As it always does, some TV exec is going to step in and offer a pile of cash on their terms and that will carry the day. Exactly, like it did with the C7. What was it Rod said about the how it was impossible that the new C7+ was going to get $3MM/school per year. Well, he was right. Sounds like they are getting closer to $4MM. Fox said we want you to break off. They did. Fox said we want it to be 2013 for inventory. Now, it is 2013. The same thing will happen on a smaller scale. These networks are desperate for inventory and will pay for it. Hopefully, Bernadette McGlade is up for the battle.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

True, GBG. We have to hope that A10 can draw in good programs and maintain some level of desireability, and maybe there's another desperate TV network willing to pay the NEW market price for college hoops.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

You and me both. It's our right as URI fans. Hope for the best, expect the worst.

Seems strange that VCU, with all their success, will end up in the same leaky boat as URI.

Somehow, they and us, along with Richmond and a couple others, will have to work together to form a league that won't be that inferior to the C7 + 5.

If it means breaking up the A10, then I'm all for it. We will NOT be able to compete with the new BE, if our league has teams like StBonnies, Duquesne, and Fordham in it. Can't be done. Those programs can't/won't compete at that level.

We will, or want to at least. URI currently is in the process of making the committment needed to get to that next level. Will they follow thru, if the worst happens?

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

ATP, the gloom and doomers are out in force, and we're among them. Very hard to see right now where this will lead. I don't like the looks of it at all. Sorry Rod, but even you have got to see that things won't be the same, unless some VERY positive actions are taken by the A10, or it's best remaining teams.

Wouldn't you know this all comes out during Dan's last radio show. Did anyone get to ask him any questions about this?

I think I'm going to need to find a couple of old friends that are a lot closer to the program, and pick their brains. I know this is changing as we speak, but things should settle down a little once the announcements are made about the new BE.

We need to hear from the A10 and soon, also.

rhodyras · Unread post by **rhodyras** » 11 years ago

From the article:

As it stands, Connecticut, Cincinnati and South Florida remain the only holdovers not committed to either the new "Big East" or another conference.

what becomes of them?
can A-10 grab any??

BFC · Unread post by **BFC** » 11 years ago

ATPTourFan wrote:True, GBG. We have to hope that A10 can draw in good programs and maintain some level of desireability, and maybe there's another desperate TV network willing to pay the NEW market price for college hoops.

Unfortunately, I don't think this deal changes the market. Remember the rest of the Big East's new ESPN deal only pays $1.2 million a year per team and that includes football. Fox is willingly overpaying because they're lauching this new sports network and they must see the C7 product helping them get on cable providers in some of these major markets.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

Talk about rolling out of bed following a decades long slumber and finding a freakin fridge full of gold bullion in your filthy studio apartment.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

I doubt what's left of the A10, even if they add some good programs from the CAA or other leagues, is going to command a lot of money in the TV market, unless they cut out the dead weight, meaning Fordham and maybe a couple of others.

Going to have to be a lot of arm twisting to get things done. Unfortunately, the A10 isn't, or won't be in the flush cash position that the C7 is in, to offer buyouts or the like to programs wanting out of their own conferences to join the A10.

Without Fox's money, NONE of this would be happening. Remember that.

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

I'm not sure if this was mentioned but the article states that Fox contacted the C7 about breaking away...an offer they couldn't refuse.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

I'm just kind of surprised, that UConn and Cincy didn't at least lobby to be included into the new league, for all sports except football.

It's going to be a hell of a lot better BB conference than the one they'll be in, that's for sure.

Maybe the C7 didn't want them, figuring they wouldn't be staying for long. But who knows?

wakefield · Unread post by **wakefield** » 11 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:I doubt what's left of the A10, even if they add some good programs from the CAA or other leagues, is going to command a lot of money in the TV market, unless they cut out the dead weight, meaning Fordham and maybe a couple of others.

Going to have to be a lot of arm twisting to get things done. Unfortunately, the A10 isn't, or won't be in the flush cash position that the C7 is in, to offer buyouts or the like to programs wanting out of their own conferences to join the A10.

Without Fox's money, NONE of this would be happening. Remember that.

I think the A10 will have between 6 and 8 million from the teams leaving and those teams will leave behind all their ncaa tourney units.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

True, wakefield. NCAA units are huge. Redistributed to remaining teams in addition to exit fees... I wonder if Thorr knew there would be a multi year influx of funding from these units given it was certain X and Butler would be leaving. Thanks, X!

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

That's a lot of units from X. Just one year's worth from Butler.

As for the money, they are going to need it, to lure new programs.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

OMG!! THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!!
BUCK BUCK BACAW!!!
Oh, the last Hurley show was knocked off for 15 mintues because of the impact of the Holy 7 story!
Are we going to join The Little East, with RIC?
Are the Hurley's packing for any job that they're offered?
Wow!
"IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs you'll be a Man, my son!"
Lots of money in exit fees, to help coax new schools to the A-10.
Stop the insane panic, please!

Rhode_Island_Red · Unread post by **Rhode_Island_Red** » 11 years ago

Just heard from my source again. Says Alaska-Anchorage, Chaminade, University of Eastern Finland and, for geographic balance, Boston Bartenders School are joining the Sacred Seven.

sf2010 · Unread post by **sf2010** » 11 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote: "IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs you'll be a Man, my son!"

Rod, as an English Lit major, love the Kipling reference

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

I don't think this is the worst thing to ever happen, honestly. The league won't be quite as good, but it'll still be a good league and much more winnable. Recognize this as an opportunity.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Actually, RRR, aren't they joining the A10?

Maybe we can dump the Bonnies, and add Canisius. Heh heh.

hrstrat57 · Unread post by **hrstrat57** » 11 years ago

I must be thick but I still don't understand Butler throwing in with the holy 7.
Must admit didn't quite get them joining the A 10 either......

Is Notre Dame fully committed to the ACC for hoops? This group really needs them to come along IMHO......

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

TP, you're right I guess. You've got to figure that the A10 will be proactive in adding or possibly subtracting schools, or whatever happens.

Just looks bleak right now, but it'll get better, I know.

Hey, if nothing else changes, the A10 will be just that, all eastern schools.

Let's see, take Fairfield, Siena, then NE and George Mason from the CAA. Could be worse I guess.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

sf, one of my favorite poems."If"
I spliced the first and last lines together, to make
my point.
Who wants Fairfield or Northeastern? What, no Canisius, Niagara and St. Peters?

hrstrat57 · Unread post by **hrstrat57** » 11 years ago

This was posted a couple hours ago re Butler.

I still don't get it.

http://www.indystar.com/article/2013022 ... ext-season

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Any suggestions Rod?

What choices do we have?

Does the A10 stay an eastern conference, or add midwest schools, which in 2 years we won't have after Dayton and StLouis go?

If they choose to go back to the Midwest, they will need at least 2 additions, to keep each other company.

Ther aren't a lot of good choices out there.

Whoever suggested UConn joining, is obviously smoking something really good.

hrstrat57 · Unread post by **hrstrat57** » 11 years ago

I think U Conn is pretty screwed with the whole deal.....odd considering they have been on top of the world for over 10 years.

The Dude · Unread post by **The Dude** » 11 years ago

Oops...posted a link, but just realized it was on other page.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

57, I get it perfectly.

It's called TV M-O-N-E-Y. Butler is a small school. They've made plenty from their NCAA success, but by going to the C7+, they'll make even more, and without the pressure of having to Dance every year to keep making that money.

And they won't Dance every year going forward. Going to the new BE, it's about to get a LOT tougher to make the Dance, although there will be more bids, there won't be as many cupcakes as the A10 has at the bottom of their league.

If URI had their success, you can bet that they would be on that short list to be invited too. Would URI go? You betcha.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Dude, that's the same article we've been talking about all night.
Detroit and Cleveland State are a lot more appealing than Fairfield and Manhattan.
George Mason and Siena here in the Northest. Old Dominion would have been a good choice, but
the bottom just dropped out of their program.
Siena having a rough year has a great facility and a solid fanbase.
I'd rather see Quinipiac than Northeastern. Nice new arena, with the number one hockey team
in the US, and big ambitions. Fordham needs to go. Unambitious and not wanting to spend any money. C-YA!
I'd grab UConn for a few years. So they leave? To where? Not going ACC, not good enough in football for Big Ten.
They'd be like Temple, who I'd also try to get back, if I were the A-10.

The Dude · Unread post by **The Dude** » 11 years ago

Just saw it on other page...oops

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

You're fired! You have to post on Golocalprov. LOL!

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Dude, where you been? We've been thrashing over that article for several hours now. There's been some updates earlier, but it looks pretty set now.

The Dude · Unread post by **The Dude** » 11 years ago

In my defense this topic is 25 pages long. It took a bit to find the post. People usually post a link to the article, so I was browsing for new links. Apparently it's content was pasted or mentioned within peoples replies with no link. I hang my head in shame. Woah is me.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 11 years ago

Here is a very recent update from USA Today...............
a key paragraph is who possible adds are for the A-10. Looks like the CAA could get hit hard.

If the A-10 wants to replace schools, it will have options in the Horizon League (Detroit Mercy), the Metro Atlantic (Siena, Fairfield, Manhattan), the Colonial (George Mason, James Madison) or the Southern Conference (Davidson, College of Charleston).

If Creighton leaves, the Valley would love to add St. Louis, but it appears the Billikens are likely headed to the Catholic 7. The replacement would likely come from a pool of Midwestern schools such as Valparaiso (Horizon), Oakland (Summit) or perhaps Oral Roberts (Southland).

http://www.hoopsworld.com/catholic-7-co ... n-reaction

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Yeah Rod, Temple must be kicking themselves over what has happened. The football money pile that they were already counting, has shrunk big time.

I doubt they come back though, they will probably be very competitive in that totally mediocre conference in both BB and FB. Of course, back in the A10 they would be fighting us and VCU for top honors, as usual for them.

I agree about Siena, the A10 needs another good northeast program with good facilities, and Q sounds intriguing. George Mason would be a good fit with VCU and Richmond.

If we were going after Midwest teams, both Detroit and Cleveland State would make sense, sure.

Now, git r' done!

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Can't see Fairfield, Manhattan, James Madison, CofC, Davidson. Guy's just naming names.
Detroit and Cleveland State make the most sense, to replace Xavier and Butler in the Midwest.
Decent programs with good facilities, and new markets.
I'm sure the A-10 folks haven't been sitting back and waiting for this C-7 stuff, to act.
This has been going on for awhile. Lots of back channel stuff, to gage possible new schools.
I think now, you'll see some movement from the A-10 to act on this. I wish I was a fly on the wall there.
Can someone tell me the logic of this conference being based in Newport News, VA?
Is somebody married to someone in The Navy? Never heard of a conference based where there was no school for 100s of miles!

wakefield · Unread post by **wakefield** » 11 years ago

How about Hoftra and Iona?

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Ramster, good find. I would just add Cleveland State to that list, and subtract Manhattan and possibly Fairfield. Rod, you're right about Fairfield, too small. NE, local [for us] but no facilities.

Wow, I'm starting to feel a little better already.

I say, let's kick Dayton and StLouis out next season, screw them! Haha.

Interesting question: why are those two waiting another year to join? Anybody know?

Is it due to ND and possibly Louisville staying another year?

Maybe when all the dust settles, we'll be the next best thing to the new BE, with 3-4 bids a year. Could do worse. Might even get a slightly better TV deal.

I'd take that. With the Hurleys that is.

wakefield · Unread post by **wakefield** » 11 years ago

Dayton and St. Louis can take turns playing Fordham for the whole season next year.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

NO to Iona and Hofstra. Lousy facilities and little tradition.
Here's one outside the box. Grab Holy Cross, make them play
all league games at the DCU Center.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Rod, all this sounds good, but for one thing. What makes us think that all these schools would want to join the 9 sisters of the poor [sorry VCU], after those 4 teams leave.

What do we have to offer? More money? What's to become of any TV deal?

Again, what's left, VCU and us [soon] and maybe Richmond, and then what?

If the A10 can get them, in conjunction with getting a better TV deal done at the same time, a la the C7, then we're OK. Without money and the promise of more exposure, they won't come. It's got to be better than what they've got, for sure.

For teams like Siena, I don't see a problem. For a team like George Mason or the midwest teams mentioned, maybe a problem.

Remember, all our marquee teams will be gone, with the exception of one: VCU. They right now, are the flagbearer of this conference. Good programs will HAVE to be added, or TV won't want us. Who the hell will want to watch Fordham play Duquesne?

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

What have they got that's better than a league that will have multiple bid this year?
Xavier won't get one of those bids. Butler left the Horizon league for the A-10. VCU left the CAA
for the A-10. Detroit, and Cleveland State are Horizon League members. Mason is a CAA member.
What's changed besides the Temple leaving, from when Butler and VCU decided to join the A-10 other than X leaving?
Is the glass always half empty for you?
Lasalle could well go to the NCAAs this year. Are they crap?
Bonaventure did well, and Schmidt has gotten their program going upward.
UMass isn't a bad program.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 11 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:Can't see Fairfield, Manhattan, James Madison, CofC, Davidson. Guy's just naming names.
Detroit and Cleveland State make the most sense, to replace Xavier and Butler in the Midwest.
Decent programs with good facilities, and new markets.
I'm sure the A-10 folks haven't been sitting back and waiting for this C-7 stuff, to act.
This has been going on for awhile. Lots of back channel stuff, to gage possible new schools.
I think now, you'll see some movement from the A-10 to act on this. I wish I was a fly on the wall there.
Can someone tell me the logic of this conference being based in Newport News, VA?
Is somebody married to someone in The Navy? Never heard of a conference based where there was no school for 100s of miles!

Rod,
Here is the article that describes the A10 move from Philly to Newport News.
Newport News is only 80 miles from Richmond - a little over an hour. Interesting that the CAA Headquarters is located in Richmond.
Strange indeed - if these were corporations then the merger of the CAA and the A10 would seem to make a lot of sense.
A10URI
Atlantic 10 Conf Gone: St Louis, Butler, Dayton, Xavier, Temple, Charlotte. The Midwest is now completely gone
There could be 6 openings if the A10 wants to stay at 16 teams - which I would recommend and like to see 6 teams added - maybe 7 if UMASS departs.

Possible Northeast Division
1 La Salle
2 Massachusetts
3 St. Joseph's
4 St. Bonaventure
5 Rhode Island
6 Fordham
7 Open
8 Open
Possible Mid Atlantic Division
1 Duquesne
2 VCU
3 Richmond
4 GW
5 Open
6 Open
7 Open
8 Open

Additions could come from merging with the CAA which has had 2 teams depart :
Colonial Athletic Conf All - Departing: Old Dominion, Georgia St,
Northeastern
Towson
Delaware
George Mason
James Madison
Drexel
William & Mary
N.C. Wilmington
Hofstra
College of Charleston

http://www.atlantic10.com/genrel/081309aad.html

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Drexel, George Mason, maybe Delaware. Screw the rest of that list.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Rod, right now that's great, but all those schools except VCU are LEAVING next year and the year after.

What's left would be lucky to get 2 bids next year.

Right now, A10 teams are each getting $400K a year from TV, which is the 2nd highest take in the mid major world.

That's also great, but what about a year or two from now?

It's not about what's happening now, but about what WILL happen soon.

I'm going to try and stay as positive as I can, and hope the A10 comes out of this OK. But in the meantime, color me worried.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Get a grip.
I like our chances at getting to the NCAA's in this league.
Better than battling Temple, Xavier and Butler.
A-10 should still be a two or three bid league at worst.
If we aren't one of the two or three best in the league, then we
don't deserve to complain.
I'm not losing any sleep over this.
My ex wife used to drive me nuts with, "Haven't you ever thought about if the pipes burst or the roof
leaks?" What, you're not worried about a meteor falling on you while you're walking?
NO! Worry about things worth worrying about.
The A-10 has survived bigger hits and will continue, as they always have.
End of story.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Ramster, what you're speculating about, I've said the same thing. A merger between the CAA and A10, with 2 divisions, makes a ton of sense.

I would take it just a little farther, and that this would be an opportunity to dump certain teams, and add a few stronger programs from other areas, like the Midwest.

To create a new conference, the only limitation would be, there would have to be a group of at least 7 teams from the A10, to keep the autobid and NCAA tourney units per NCAA rules. Just like what the C7 did.

Say take the 7 from the A10, the best 5 from the CAA, and 4 from the Midwest, East, or South.