General Recruiting Discussion/Comments 2022 and before

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 8 years ago

That's great, but as Rod just said, we need a couple of bigs and a PG that can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Getting those players in here for 2016 is absolutely critical to keep the momentum going.

Hassan will be a junior this season. After him, who we got?

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 8 years ago

The two best recruits we've got so far were signed before Dan ever coached a game here. I was hoping the trend would be upward for 4 year players. You could argue that each class of 4 year recruits has been slightly less talented than the one before. It's still TBD for the class of Thompson, Butts and Akele, but my expectations aren't as high as they were for Terrell and Garrett. I think we all thought that by the 4th recruiting class, the 16s, we would be getting some elite type players. We will see. I know you can't dismiss the transfers. I love that we got Iverson. I just hope we're involved with and can sign a couple of very talented 4 year players during this recruiting period. BTW, this might sound like a criticism of Dan. It's not. I'm as thrilled now that he is our coach than I was the day he was introduced to us over 3 years ago.

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 8 years ago

That first sentence is simply not true. Terrell was more highly regarded out of high school then Matthews and Martin. And if you combine the rankings, Terrell and Garrett were probably a more highly regarded combo.

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 8 years ago

Martin wasn't ranked as high as he should have been because of his injury. Terrell did commit somewhere else first. That is probably not significant to this conversation though. I'm just glad he changed his mind.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 8 years ago

It's going to be a big deal if Dan can sign a couple of big talents for the frontcourt.

As he now knows, it's not easy to recruit here, especially when it comes to large types who can play.

Is he going to have to take chances on guys who haven't blown up yet? It's beginning to look like it. A10 schools don't get many commits once they've been targeted by the likes of Kentucky or Duke.

Usually, as we've seen so far, when someone does commit, there's a previous connection somewhere.

Even Shaka found it hard to get good big men, even after VCU's big run a few years ago. We still haven't even Danced yet. We might need that "big run" before we're able to land who we need.

That's putting the cart before the horse, but it might have to be done that way. The hard way.

reckless jake · Unread post by **reckless jake** » 8 years ago

Adding to the seemingly endless difficulty of recruiting, you just know that coaches of other schools are telling prospective URI recruits that Hurley is leaving after this year, probably even citing Shaka Smart as an example of a successful A10 coach who moved on.

RAM67 · Unread post by **RAM67** » 8 years ago

My gut tells me Thompson is going to be an impact player.

Seawrightspostgame · Unread post by **Seawrightspostgame** » 8 years ago

I am impressed by all the classes. The last class with Thompson you have to consider that the starting 5 is set with young talent and its hard to sell elite guys on sitting for an A10 team like ours has been.

I think Thompson is a coup and he reminds me of A10 guards we play that aren't hyped but by their junior/senior years they hardly can be stopped on any floor. Specifically in the A10 these guys take games over and win them at the end. He is a great bridge player.
between the original star guys and whoever comes in down the line.

All that said, I thought we would be grabbing at least 1 front court guy that we could be excited about in 2016. Also that we would have guys committed in the fall of 2015..... still time of course.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 8 years ago

Recruiting at URI will always be difficult, until you see 8-10 years of continued success which we have never enjoyed in my lifetime. We will have to get lucky with high 3/4 star guys, either through a unique connection or forming a relationship early and having all the chips fall into place. And we will always have to find diamond in the rough/fringe guys (2-3 star) who blossom under good coaching and with the opportunity to play. As someone just said, even with VCUs success Shaka was just recently starting to land the occasional 4-star players...and that is after a decade of success and a Final Four run. The big boys will always be able to come in late and trade on their history and conference affiliation to trump URI and all other non P5 schools.

bressler3south · Unread post by **bressler3south** » 8 years ago

All quiet on the Kingston Front…..

bressler3south · Unread post by **bressler3south** » 8 years ago

Nichts neues in Kingston…..

bressler3south · Unread post by **bressler3south** » 8 years ago

Interesting observation….Certainly related to and how it affects URI situation? Wish he'd expand upon this.

15h
Jerry Meyer @jerrymeyer247
In the 12 years I've been in this business, shoe company influence over recruits is greater (by a large margin) than I've ever seen it.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 8 years ago

That could be a factor with recruiting with us for sure.

We're on our last year with adidas.

Ramulous · Unread post by **Ramulous** » 8 years ago

Probably why EC and Hassan were invited to those Adidas summer programs

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 8 years ago

100% that is the connection pretty sure every one of those kids is at an Adidas school, Dunn was at the Nike one.

bressler3south · Unread post by **bressler3south** » 8 years ago

For those interested in watching some talented high school hoops from AdidasNations….

Some URI targets (past and present) involved.

Ronnie Flores
#adidasNations title game is Team Rose (US 2016s) vs. Team Wall (US 2016s) on @ESPNU at 6 p.m. PT #grassroots
about 5 hours ago
Paul Biancardi retweeted

RonMFlores Ronnie Flores
#adidasNations 3rd place game is Team Lillard (US 2017s) vs Team Africa on @ESPNU ESPNU at 4 p.m. PT #hsbb #grassroots

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 8 years ago

Not buying the reason for not getting players is the
"Hurley might leave" crap.
So, Larry Brown could die tomorrow or leave like he always does.
Doesn't seem to stop him from recruiting.
Boeheim is in all kinds of hot water, and he's recruiting.
Kevin Ollie is always rumored to be going to the NBA, No problem
loading up with players.
Calipari is always in the NBA rumors.
Pitino is always looking at other jobs.
Yes, these are all P5 coaches, but we should still be able to
land 3 star players at URI.
This is another imagined excuse. I don't buy it.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 8 years ago

Don't buy it either, our friends to the north are having an equally hard time making final lists -- and they are coming off 2 NCAA tourney appearances, in a conference with more brand value and with a coach that by most opinion is in it for the long haul. Bottom line it has, is and will always be difficult to recruit to URI and/or PC. That said, I have no doubt Dan is going to bring more talent to Kingston, he has done it since Day 1.

Dre3000 · Unread post by **Dre3000** » 8 years ago

I absolutely buy it... especially on the heels of Shaka Smart going to Texas. The fact is Hurley has been here for 3 seasons and is going on his 4th. By the time this 2016 class are seniors in college it is not far-fetched to think that he'll be gone. Also unless there are early departures, there's really not a lot of minutes available over the next two years except for at the 4/5.

Syracuse has a coach in waiting so they're not the same. Larry Brown has NBA experience kids like that. Kentucky is Kentucky and has program prestige nationally as does UCONN. I think a closer comparison would be like an Xavier but even they have a good recent history of making the NCAA tournament.

Don't get me wrong i do think we will get players just as we have each of the last 3 recruiting cycles, but we have to be patient for the better 3-star guys.

bressler3south · Unread post by **bressler3south** » 8 years ago

If you look at the article I posted a few days ago, PER CAPITA, coaches have a WORSE RECORD for transferring/switching jobs than players do!
That doesn't even include coaches getting fired.
Recruiting is recruiting.
Up until this year/now the talent base has been improved step-by-step.
The expectations and lack of the BIG 5-START RECRUIT is what is alarming at this point, because it was all a part of the "Hurley Mystique/Hype Machine."
I'm still all in, yet as I also posted a while ago, St. Benedict's rosters were littered with 5-star recruits and future pros, and that was a more passive recruiting/reputation-deal.
Now?
As J.H. said: "Recruit, recruit, recruit…."
Also, Kabongo's younger brother/cousin is out there in the future...

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 8 years ago

Expectations need to be tempered if you are waiting for a 5-star recruit. Hurley's time at Benedicts is only relevant for the number of elite recruits and future pros he developed, not for the type of player he is going to bring in to URI, at least at this stage. If he stays here for the next decade and goes to a bunch of sweet 16s maybe that will change. Recruiting isn't a just about the coach. The schools that compete for the elite recruits have so much more to offer a recruit than URI at this point that no coach is going to make up the difference. Facilities, exposure, ego fulfillment, etc. The hope should be that Hurley can turn this into one of those programs, not that he would make it one overnight. It's a process (a real process, though, not an imaginary one designed only to buy a mediocre coach more time). Having said that, we should definitely be able to compete with Big East and mid-tier Power 5 teams for the right players. I still have confidence that we will, but even so the reality is you miss more than you hit in recruiting.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 8 years ago

That is why its crucial we build a "Program" and not be tied to the fortunes of any one coach...you only do that by showing years of success and surviving coaching succession. In my lifetime we have yet to show that Xavier-esque ability to weather a great coach leaving and keeping things moving in an upward trajectory...we always have taken a step back, some bigger than others (ie Skinner vs Jerry Duh).

In this day and age almost every coach is for sale, as Bressler indicates, anyone will jump. Billy Donovan had one of the most plum gigs in America and bolted for the NBA. There will always be a bigger challenge for the alpha male, ego-centric types that are Head basketball coaches, and besides a very small few like Izzo or Coach K there aren't a lot of coaches out there who it isn't at least a possibility they will leave. Another example Fred Hoiberg who was seemingly building something special in Ames, IA.

Also agree with TP that if you are holding out for 5 star recruits you are going to lose your breath....we have to make our magic with 4-year 3 star guys, just like we always have, sprinkled in with the occasional 4-star. Not sure how anyone can say Hurley hasn't exceeded expectations on the recruiting front, based on our likely starting 5 this year we have never had a team with so many highly regarded players (Terrell, EC, Iverson + Garrett, Hassan).

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 8 years ago

100% right, BAR.
The history at URI is, successfull coaches followed by
failure or mediocrity.
Ernie Calverley and his 2 NCAAs followed by Tom Carmody.
Jack Kraft, possibly our best coach ever, followed by
Claude English and Brendan Malone.
Tom Penders, followed by Al Skinner. Skinner had one winning season
in his first three. Big fall off from a Sweet 16 and an NIT in Penders'
only two seasons.
Skinner to Harrick was the most successful handoff.
Harrick to Jerry D was the worst.
Jerry D to CFL set the bar pretty low.
It's now Hurley following CFL. So far, so good.
Again, our history shows good-great coaches, followed by
mediocrity or failure.
When Hurley does leave, it'll be key to hire a good one.
The program will be on solid ground and the people in charge
at URI are head and shoulders better than ever before.
I'm optimistic about our future.

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 8 years ago

So, what is the reason that we haven't been able to put together good back-to-back coaches? Was it just bad hiring?

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 8 years ago

Rod, even allowing for Skinner's rough start, the overall success of Penders-Skinner-Harrick was easily the program's best (modern) run, and not coincidentally the program was at its pinnacle at the end of that period. It is almost depressing to think about what if we had not followed it up with our worst hire ever, and then followed THAT up by bringing in a safe guy with no upside for a full decade. We were *that* close to turning the corner, and we literally could not have done a better job squandering it. If we'd made a good hire in 1999 and then followed that up with opening the Ryan....

It really is infuriating to think about. But alas, here we are. The guy we have now has the potential to become one of the all-time greats here. Hopefully however it eventually ends, when it is time we stick the landing on our next move.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 8 years ago

Jerry D was clearly the biggest screw up, which gave birth to fear and desperation, which lead to Baron -- Penders to Skinner to Harrick, as Rod alludes to, isn't a bad lineage. All 3 are brand name, successful coaches who had NCAA success at URI to varying degrees...albeit Al really built his brand after leaving Kingston. It comes down to having the right people and protocol in place to make the personnel decision, and having a product that is a good sell. Confident with what is in place now we will be in a much better position the next time it becomes necessary....if I had to bet my life on it I would say we have 2 more seasons of Dan. I say that with zero knowledge of his personal feelings or aspirations, just a hunch. I think a lot with Dan will have to do not only with his situation at URI but also the situation that presents itself, he isn't just going to jump for more $$$.

bressler3south · Unread post by **bressler3south** » 8 years ago

I concur with everything everyone has written. I will add, to clarify my position, that at this point, the facilities -- including the Ryan Center, locker room, student-athlete center, etc., -- here are vastly improved. The strength and conditioning, academics, etc., are beyond my wildest dreams compared to even 5-20 years ago.
THE PROGRAM -- COACH HURLEY'S PROGRAM -- is on a solid foundation, and as it takes the next leap forward, an NCAA bid, where is that BIG-TIME PLAYER who sees the vision and COMMITMENT to be part of something big and make it bigger? That is what I meant by the proverbial 5-Star player…..
If and when Coach Hurley leaves the next coach will be entrusted to keep that program prospering, a la Xavier, Butler, and Gonzaga.
All in all, it's just summer frustration on my part in the vast Media Age……
Thank you for listening.

Ramulous · Unread post by **Ramulous** » 8 years ago

Everything is in place to be successful in recruiting to Rhody......the next steps are to get into the NCAA tournament.....do so on a consistent basis....and perhaps keep a coach for a stretch of 6 or 7 years until the school becomes a brand beyond the coach.....

.....our coaches identify good talent early....they proceed to blow up and get courted by BCS schools and they fall in love with those coaches and schools....it is going to take a special kid that we identify and establish a relationship with him as a HS sophomore to decide to come to a mid-major after the big boys are wooing him......that will be a big step for us....

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 8 years ago

Updated New England rankings for '16s. http://www.newenglandrecruitingreport.c ... ss-of-2016

bressler3south · Unread post by **bressler3south** » 8 years ago

24/7 update……

http://rhodeisland.247sports.com/Season ... all/Visits

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 8 years ago

La grande goose egg.....

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 8 years ago

Last year, Butts committed in June and Thompson committed in September.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 8 years ago

Well, let's hope that Dan has a wave of recruit visits starting fairly soon......

Just seems odd that there haven't been ANY visits as of late. I would guess that more programs than not, at least at our level, have had visits by now.....

I mean, we have 3 or 4 open scholarships, not just one or two.

Where is this vaunted Jersey pipeline? Drier than a desert it seems.....

Unread post by **SGreenwell** » 8 years ago

Re: recruiting, there is sooooo much noise out there that I generally find it unproductive to evaluate anything except who the coach lands. Ultimately, that's all that matters. If Hurley only lands three guys on three visit, but they all become All A-10 level talents, then it ultimately doesn't matter much that he only got three visits. I'm positive that if you calculated his landed-to-offered ratio for the past couple years according to threads on the board, it's less than 25 percent, but the talent he has recruited has been pretty damn good.

BFC · Unread post by **BFC** » 8 years ago

Most of our official visits the past few years have happened in September. Marfo visited (unofficially) right before the July period so I understand disappointment there that we weren't mentioned on his most recent list but I don't get any of these other guys. "Offers" in some cases years ago does not mean we lost out on them.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 8 years ago

There's always going to be more balls than strikes when it comes to the recruiting game, but sheesh, we need to hear of at least a couple of pending visits, especially bigs.

Of course, to use the baseball analogy again, we're not even getting NEAR the strike zone when there aren't even any visits.

More like wild pitches.

ace · Unread post by **ace** » 8 years ago

The only thing Hurley promised when he was hired was that he would get good players, referencing that they got A10 talent at an NEC school. The idea of a specific region has kind of taken on a life of its own- first, there was criticism that there was too much Jersey, now not enough. He promised talent, not Jersey kids. I've talked before about the specifics of St. Anthony and won't repeat myself. They're learning what works, and it's going to be more Thompson/Akele like.

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 8 years ago

Last year we had visits from Enoch, Falzon, Aflakpui and Silva, all 6'8" or bigger. We were even on the final lists of two of them, and I believe final two of either one or two of them.

BFC · Unread post by **BFC** » 8 years ago

ace wrote:The only thing Hurley promised when he was hired was that he would get good players, referencing that they got A10 talent at an NEC school. The idea of a specific region has kind of taken on a life of its own- first, there was criticism that there was too much Jersey, now not enough. He promised talent, not Jersey kids. I've talked before about the specifics of St. Anthony and won't repeat myself. They're learning what works, and it's going to be more Thompson/Akele like.

Actually what Hurley said was they recruited like an A10 school in the NEC and they would recruit like a Big East school in the A10 (his hiring was before the Big East became the "Big East"). Thompson and Akele might turn out to be Big East level players but they are not Big East level recruits.

ace · Unread post by **ace** » 8 years ago

BFC wrote:
ace wrote:The only thing Hurley promised when he was hired was that he would get good players, referencing that they got A10 talent at an NEC school. The idea of a specific region has kind of taken on a life of its own- first, there was criticism that there was too much Jersey, now not enough. He promised talent, not Jersey kids. I've talked before about the specifics of St. Anthony and won't repeat myself. They're learning what works, and it's going to be more Thompson/Akele like.
Actually what Hurley said was they recruited like an A10 school in the NEC and they would recruit like a Big East school in the A10 (his hiring was before the Big East became the "Big East"). Thompson and Akele might turn out to be Big East level players but they are not Big East level recruits.

I was making two separate points- about the types of players, not geography, and then about approach. The first was what he promised about getting players and that he could get good ones, with the example that he gave about getting above average for the conference players at Wagner. The second point was referencing the style and way in which Thompson and Akele were recruited and visited/signed. NA's was some calculated stuff- decoys, information suppression, threats of violence (hyperbole but there was a definite "don't talk" issued).

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 8 years ago

Ah, the old "stealth recruiting" thing again.

Hey, whatever works, as long as it brings us the necessary talent.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 8 years ago

Because we know, in this age of Twitter and Facebook, that
everyone can play CIA agents.
This isn't 1965, where nobody ever heard of Jimmy Walker
in prep school, and his aunt had to tell Joe Mullaney about him.
If there's talent, everyone knows about it.

ace · Unread post by **ace** » 8 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:Ah, the old "stealth recruiting" thing again.

Hey, whatever works, as long as it brings us the necessary talent.

And it has. When other people look at Rhode Island since March of 2012, recruiting's deemed a pretty clear win. Akele's visit was a complete secret. Thompson was publicly announced as a target, visited, and committed within three days. It's not the players themselves- anybody and everybody is known and can be seen and get a write-up about himself- it's an approach. It's interesting how the staff's approach has evolved over these last 3+ years. It's moved from getting the Rhode Island name out there as much as possible (tweeting about travel, texting the national recruiting guys to pass on info, etc) to just going about their business, even if that means downplaying involvement in specific cases. There's also quieter things happening, like growing their connections with some EYBL guys, that can pay off as this thing continues to develop. They tracked a few guys incredibly closely in July, and it barely gets any play except when it has to- but the players know. At the same time, the players in the program have become more important, and credible, in selling it. We know the facilities and the Ryan Center are solid. Non gameday visits go very well, gameday ones can still be inconsistent. Given recent program history, URI can sometimes still be an easy team to recruit against. I will say, though, that the conversations between current players and recruits when the idea of Hurley leaving comes up are funny. The current guys have been through that, and everybody's still here. If this team ends up being the conference favorite this season and making the tournament, the strategy will shift again.

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 8 years ago

When Preston left and Cox came in, we talked about how the pipeline would change from Michigan to D.C. After Cox got here, I think I remember a bunch of D.C. kids being offered including some bigs. Hampton is one I remember. What happened to this D.C. pipeline?

ace · Unread post by **ace** » 8 years ago

Billyboy78 wrote:When Preston left and Cox came in, we talked about how the pipeline would change from Michigan to D.C. After Cox got here, I think I remember a bunch of D.C. kids being offered including some bigs. Hampton is one I remember. What happened to this D.C. pipeline?

Cox has been here for just one year, and two players from that area have committed.

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 8 years ago

I doubt this post will be successful because who doesn't love a good internet message board pile on, but some of the other threads in here have gotten pretty bad and way off topic. I know some of you want to deride ace's contention that the coaching staff has changed their approach to how much information is released, but anyone that's followed recruiting during the Hurley era knows this to be a fact, and ace provided examples to prove it. Maybe it's just easier to be negative because there's not as much information to discuss as we'd like so we think that's a sign of lack of activity to people predisposed to that viewpoint. Maybe there's jealousy that someone who isn't a lifelong Rhody fan seems to have more information about what's happening because Preston isn't around to leak information. But whatever the sentiment behind the recent posts, people should probably wonder if turning this board caustic for one of the few people with real information and insight is really the wisest approach.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 8 years ago

I agree. I would like to be more tuned in to what is going on, and I'm not nearly as tuned in now as I've been in the past. But I also don't feel like I'm entitled to the information and don't really understand why anybody would feel that they are. A lot of the commentary about recruiting lately sounds like people feel they're entitled to info and are mad they aren't getting it. If the staff chooses to keep the information scarce because they feel it advantages them in some way, I'll gladly sacrifice my share of the insider info in return for letting them do their job the way they think is best.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 8 years ago

Jealousy? Give me a fucking break.
This is a message board, and some of us are having some fun.
There are no sacred cows here.
We're Rhody fans. We will be Rhody fans long after Dan is gone.
If you think Preston was our only source of information,
you are sadly mistaken.
Most of the information I broke last year, was after he left.
I haven't been on campus since May and haven't made any effort to
ask anyone anything.
How Hurley and staff choose to conduct their flow of information is
entirely up to them.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 8 years ago

ace wrote:
rambone 78 wrote:Ah, the old "stealth recruiting" thing again.

Hey, whatever works, as long as it brings us the necessary talent.
And it has. When other people look at Rhode Island since March of 2012, recruiting's deemed a pretty clear win. Akele's visit was a complete secret. Thompson was publicly announced as a target, visited, and committed within three days. It's not the players themselves- anybody and everybody is known and can be seen and get a write-up about himself- it's an approach. It's interesting how the staff's approach has evolved over these last 3+ years. It's moved from getting the Rhode Island name out there as much as possible (tweeting about travel, texting the national recruiting guys to pass on info, etc) to just going about their business, even if that means downplaying involvement in specific cases. There's also quieter things happening, like growing their connections with some EYBL guys, that can pay off as this thing continues to develop. They tracked a few guys incredibly closely in July, and it barely gets any play except when it has to- but the players know. At the same time, the players in the program have become more important, and credible, in selling it. We know the facilities and the Ryan Center are solid. Non gameday visits go very well, gameday ones can still be inconsistent. Given recent program history, URI can sometimes still be an easy team to recruit against. I will say, though, that the conversations between current players and recruits when the idea of Hurley leaving comes up are funny. The current guys have been through that, and everybody's still here. If this team ends up being the conference favorite this season and making the tournament, the strategy will shift again.

Good points about how the recruiting has changed and evolved.
Also has changed due to the caliber of player now on hand.
Consider we could be favorites to win the A10 and could end up being Top 25 at some point during the year. Starting 5 will likely be:
Mathews JR - Should be 1st team A10
Martin JR - Should be 1st team A10
Terrell SOPH - Should challenge for All A10
Iverson - Transfer - Could challenge for All A10
Garrett - SOPH - Could challenge for All A10

If any of these players were being recruiting last year for THIS Year's team 2015-2016 it would be a big stretch for DH to tell any of them that they stood a good chance to be int eh Starting Line up. Note at all like when he recruited them to the Baron legacy where he could and did commit to playing time and starting position likelihood.
Players in HS and AAU want instant playing time. It's not the same as it was so recruiting is tougher or at least different.

Summary of Offers last 5 years and when current starters arrived:
2012 - 6
2013 - 13 - First Recruiting Class for DH - Mathews and Martin
2014 - 27 - Second Recruiting Class for DH - Terrell and Garrett
2015 - 33 - Iverson
2016 - 30 and counting

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 8 years ago

Our PG target list seems to be getting smaller with Moseley, Carr and Ponds all gone. Like someone said, "on to the next one". Who is that guy now? Is it Dowtin?