Poll: Does Dan Hurley arguing calls help or hurt the team?

Joe · Unread post by **Joe** » 9 years ago

It seems that Hurley argues literally every single call that refs make against Rhody -- Does this benefit us or hurt us?

Unread post by **SGreenwell** » 9 years ago

Joe wrote:It seems that Hurley argues literally every single call that refs make against Rhody -- Does this benefit us or hurt us?

Seems odd to not include a third option for "no effect" or "evens out," which would probably be my vote. Certain refs probably react poorly to a coach getting on them, while others probably do react with make-up calls. My assumption would be that it tends to wash out over the course of a season. Screamers have managed to win titles, and so have guys who barely seem to talk to refs at all.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 9 years ago

This is a dumb poll.

bressler3south · Unread post by **bressler3south** » 9 years ago

bigappleram wrote:This is a dumb poll.

Joe has posted three times. He's getting his feet wet.
Welcome to KeaneyBlue, Joe.

theblueram · Unread post by **theblueram** » 9 years ago

Neither. He hasn't really cost us a game so this is a non starter. Dan told me at Quidnessett he knows he goes overboard and needs to tone it down.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

I think he has cost us a couple of games.
He's getting a bad reputation and that's never a good thing.
A guy like Knight could get away with it, because he had
big talent to overcome fouls called against his teams.

theblueram · Unread post by **theblueram** » 9 years ago

Well it's not like the ref's are competent.

bressler3south · Unread post by **bressler3south** » 9 years ago

theblueram wrote:Well it's not like the ref's are competent.

When the focus of the game isn't on the play on the court, then all show levels of incompetence…..

theblueram · Unread post by **theblueram** » 9 years ago

Not sure what your saying Bress.

Rhody74 · Unread post by **Rhody74** » 9 years ago

It probably hurts, but not enough to cost of us games so far.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

Once you have a bad reputation with the refs, it's hard to shake it. The refs will anticipate things happening before they do. That's already happened at times imo.

If Dan does really tone it down some this season, I think things will be OK.

If not, especially with the new rules, there could be problems.

If we were to lose a couple of key games because of this, well....

Joe · Unread post by **Joe** » 9 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:Once you have a bad reputation with the refs, it's hard to shake it. The refs will anticipate things happening before they do. That's already happened at times imo.

If Dan does really tone it down some this season, I think things will be OK.

If not, especially with the new rules, there could be problems.

If we were to lose a couple of key games because of this, well....

Yeah, it seems to me like the majority of the refs already dislike Hurley, and him getting on their backs over everything certainly doesn't help his case...

Joe · Unread post by **Joe** » 9 years ago

SGreenwell wrote:
Joe wrote:It seems that Hurley argues literally every single call that refs make against Rhody -- Does this benefit us or hurt us?
Seems odd to not include a third option for "no effect" or "evens out," which would probably be my vote. Certain refs probably react poorly to a coach getting on them, while others probably do react with make-up calls. My assumption would be that it tends to wash out over the course of a season. Screamers have managed to win titles, and so have guys who barely seem to talk to refs at all.

Probably should have added that in there, but regardless it appears that the arguing causes the refs to dislike him, and subsequently a toss-up call will go the other way.

Seawrightspostgame · Unread post by **Seawrightspostgame** » 9 years ago

The best thing for Dan's sideline deal is the fact the team will be his best yet.

4 of the top 5 are back and a year better. I know ppl are saying temper expectations bla bla... got it.

A starting 5 and a solid 6th man can get a team into the field of 64. Damn near most teams play around 7 guys.

If his team is winning and each game doesn't feel like a mountain they have to climb things will be different.

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 9 years ago

And of course the refs know about Dan's reputation. That's why it seemed he got a bench warning in the first 10 minutes of almost every game.

bressler3south · Unread post by **bressler3south** » 9 years ago

theblueram wrote:Not sure what your saying Bress.

When the refs make mistakes, everyone knows it, and the situation is magnified by constant harping by coaches, which in turn creates a bitching match amongst the coach and refs….The focus of the game is no longer the two squads of players. In my opinion, the negative behaviors of the "adults" constitute levels of incompetence.
A coach has to pick his spots. He can't be raging against every-single-slight, real or imagined, because it's a negative behavior, absolutely antagonistic, and 99.9% of the time will result in negative outcomes.
There are better ways to communicate.
Sneering, swearing, rolling of the eyes, mocking, whining, and emoting do nothing but leave a negative impression, a pathetic sideshow.
That's all……..

Ramulous · Unread post by **Ramulous** » 9 years ago

When and if he wins big over a few seasons the refs will cut him more slack....they always favor the big-shot coaches....

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

Winning big will be a little tougher if he keeps up the sideline sideshow, however....

I'm sure he knows this, but hopefully his assistants can reign him in a little more.....he says he wants to tone it down, but then he tends to forget in the heat of the moment and off we go.........

URI_IEP · Unread post by **URI_IEP** » 9 years ago

bigappleram wrote:This is a dumb poll.

That should be a third option in the poll...

All fan bases think the refs are either out to get them and cost them the games they lost, or had to be overcome in the games they won. Go read any pro or amateur fan page and you'll see the same thing, "The refs don't like *name a player/coach/gm/mascot/city/whatever*, which is why we lost the game." The refs are just people trying to do their jobs (sometimes poorly) in an effort to make money. They aren't trying to screw anyone due to a personality conflict.

Rhody15 · Unread post by **Rhody15** » 9 years ago

It does hurt, and probably has cost us a game here or there, with the amount of fouls being called on us. Think about it, how many bench warnings did we get this year? I honestly cannot think of another team that I watched multiple times this past year where a coach received even ONE bench warning.

jro44 · Unread post by **jro44** » 9 years ago

I think you guys are over analyzing this. I really don't think his actions during a game are A. that bad and B. effect any decisions made by officials. If you watch any NCAA game you will constantly see coaches prodding and sometimes even riding the officials all game long, Danny is no different than 90% of those coaches. I think the change we have seen with Danny is the aggressiveness of the D, I am sure most officials are used to the crap man and crap zones played before and just aren't used to the in your face man we started to see last year. I think we will see a big change this year because as officials get used to the D URI plays we will see less ticky tack touch calls. I think that in itself will let Danny calm down. It's frustrating when you teach the kids to play up that tight and when you see good D get crap calls you almost have to let your kids know that they aren't doing anything wrong. I think at those times it's ok for a coach to get on the officials and let your kids know, "hey I got your back". Yes, some coaches don't stop there and get officials upset and it's not good for anyone, but I didn't see that too much this year. I think there were times he could have backed off, but in the end the D got better each game and the kids responded to that firey attitude.

BornNBred33 · Unread post by **BornNBred33** » 9 years ago

I feel that in no way this is hurting the team. Dan is emerging as a high level coach and refs are starting to see that. This year will be a lot different, since more people know of him and he will receive greater respect in all fascits of the game. I mean would you rather have CFL stomping his dress shoe into the floor??

BornNBred33 · Unread post by **BornNBred33** » 9 years ago

I feel that in no way this is hurting the team. Dan is emerging as a high level coach and refs are starting to see that. This year will be a lot different, since more people know of him and he will receive greater respect in all fascits of the game. I mean would you rather have CFL stomping his dress shoe into the floor??

Shaolin Swat · Unread post by **Shaolin Swat** » 9 years ago

jro44 wrote:I think you guys are over analyzing this. I really don't think his actions during a game are A. that bad and B. effect any decisions made by officials. If you watch any NCAA game you will constantly see coaches prodding and sometimes even riding the officials all game long, Danny is no different than 90% of those coaches. I think the change we have seen with Danny is the aggressiveness of the D, I am sure most officials are used to the crap man and crap zones played before and just aren't used to the in your face man we started to see last year. I think we will see a big change this year because as officials get used to the D URI plays we will see less ticky tack touch calls. I think that in itself will let Danny calm down. It's frustrating when you teach the kids to play up that tight and when you see good D get crap calls you almost have to let your kids know that they aren't doing anything wrong. I think at those times it's ok for a coach to get on the officials and let your kids know, "hey I got your back". Yes, some coaches don't stop there and get officials upset and it's not good for anyone, but I didn't see that too much this year. I think there were times he could have backed off, but in the end the D got better each game and the kids responded to that firey attitude.

I agree with this 100%. I think the fact that Dan fights for these calls and fights for the players is a huge reason why they would run through a wall for him. Sure Dan can be demonstrative at times, but I don't think that it has been excessive or different from any other coach. Dan is a fiery guy and the players respond to it. Saying that he needs to change or need to dial it back could bring some negative effects to the intensity that the players bring every game.

PeterRamTime · Unread post by **PeterRamTime** » 9 years ago

It shouldn't matter because the refs should do their job withot bias to another team.

But I don't know why he'd argue every call. I don't think he does argue every call. I remember in that Stanford game the color commentator was mystified at Hurley and kept calling him out, but one of the times the other guy said "No he was yelling at Biggie Minnis that time."
So perhaps he's yelling at our guys more than we think.
Or maybe it was just Biggie a lot of the time...

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

Look, if someone yells at you (ref) once, you'll pay attention to what he's
bitching about.
If he yells at you (ref) on every play, it becomes white noise,
so when a real mistake is made, the yelling is the same as every other
call or non call.
Dan has to learn to pick his fights for maximum affect.
He does holler at his players, so, sometimes it's hard to distinguish
what he's going on about.
We saw in the VCU game, after he exploded, and VCU got every 50-50 call
after that.
He needs to tone it down with the refs. It doesn't help one bit.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 9 years ago

Dan is intense and I love it. He is not Brad Stevens and I dont want him to change who he is because some fans think that will endear him to the refs. Jim Harbaugh complains on every call as well, certainly hasn't prevented him from having success. In my talks with Div 1 basketball refs they admit to missing calls and using make up calls to even things out, not bc they have an axe to grind. Go to other teams message boards after games and there refs are complaining that we got all the 50/50 calls, its human nature as someone alluded to earlier. No one is out to get Dan or URI because of his sideline behavior. I think with winning will naturally come a slightly more calm sideline demeanor but I want Dan to be Dan, that is what we hired him for. As I said, this poll is dumb.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

So, 20 of us are drooling idiots, right?
Guess we're not entitled to an opinion.

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 9 years ago

Refs are human. I bet some hold grudges, as unprofessional as that might be. Dan made a comment last year, "The bald guy sucks". I'm guessing this ref knows about this. I can't remember who the ref was, but do you think he gives Dan the benefit of the doubt next time he refs a URI game and there's a 50/50 call?

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 9 years ago

Didn't call anyone an idiot, just said IMO the poll was dumb.

jro44 · Unread post by **jro44** » 9 years ago

The one thing we don't see in this whole conversation is how Dan relates to this officials before games or off the court. As a coach there are plenty of officials that do hold grudges against you, as Billyboy said "they are human", however most do not and most coaches and officials have good relationships off the court. There are numerous officials that I get frequently who I would actually consider myself to be very friendly with, however, once the ball gets tossed up they are the last people I want to see in the gym. Often times those officials that I feel I have good relations with often get my rants more because I know I can get away with more. Either way their consistency(for better or worse) never changes because of my actions. But, there are also officials who I had an issue with 5 years ago that will come into our gym and every call goes against us, it's like 8-0 in fouls in the first 4 minutes no matter what I do.

Joe · Unread post by **Joe** » 9 years ago

bigappleram wrote:Didn't call anyone an idiot, just said IMO the poll was dumb.

The poll is dumb because your answer is that it has no impact/evens out?

Ram1019 · Unread post by **Ram1019** » 9 years ago

Billyboy78 wrote:Refs are human. I bet some hold grudges, as unprofessional as that might be. Dan made a comment last year, "The bald guy sucks". I'm guessing this ref knows about this. I can't remember who the ref was, but do you think he gives Dan the benefit of the doubt next time he refs a URI game and there's a 50/50 call?

Exactly why I believe it hurts the team. We are all human. If I was ref and even if my intentions were good, I would still have a hard time keeping things even after dealing with 40 minutes of contesting every call.

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 9 years ago

Refs don't help the situation at all. It seems in all sports, but especially basketball and baseball, the referees have been more prone to escalating situations as opposed to trying to diffuse them as of late. Also, as a ref, when you're practically giving Hurley a bench warning during pregame introductions you're wasting one of your tools to cool him off. He knows that unless you're completely incompetent that you're not going to T him up unless he crosses a line, and you've already wasted the warning, so now he can go up to the line pretty much the whole game and as a ref there's nothing you can do to calm things down if you intend to call the game properly.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 9 years ago

Yes and secondarily because it's impossible to quantify whether it does or doesn't have an impact. Should this guy start or that guy start is also an opinion based poll but you can actually back up your opinion with data to support (stats, +/- percentages, etc). There is no stat that points to us getting screwed by refs, we had more fouls called against us b/c we played more aggressive defense than 99% of our opponents and refs tightened up on hand check calls.

Joe · Unread post by **Joe** » 9 years ago

bigappleram wrote:Yes and secondarily because it's impossible to quantify whether it does or doesn't have an impact. Should this guy start or that guy start is also an opinion based poll but you can actually back up your opinion with data to support (stats, +/- percentages, etc). There is no stat that points to us getting screwed by refs, we had more fouls called against us b/c we played more aggressive defense than 99% of our opponents and refs tightened up on hand check calls.

Just because there is no "data" does not mean that people can't have an opinion as to whether or not it impacts the game. The NCAA doesn't track "blown calls" statistics -- even though everyone knows that they exist.

Every single person who was at the VCU vs. Rhody home game knows that the refs were extremely biased against Rhody. Fan or not, it was pretty damn obvious.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 9 years ago

I added the third option and that reset the previous poll results. Let's all submit a new vote on the 3 available options.

Joe · Unread post by **Joe** » 9 years ago

Sounds like a plan!

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 9 years ago

Here are the Statistics for Fouls Called for URI and for Opponents for past 5 years.

Year URI/OPPONENT
HURLEY 2014 - 694/668 URI +26
HURLEY 2013 - 651/648 URI +3
HURLEY 2012 - 561/526 URI +35
BARON 2011 - 559/583 URI -24
BARON 2010 - 607/617 URI -10

Year URI/OPPONENT
In Conference Only
HURLEY 2014 - 360/361 URI -1
HURLEY 2013 - 328/322 URI +6
HURLEY 2012 - 327/287 URI +40
BARON 2011 - 225/252 URI -27

twisted3829 · Unread post by **twisted3829** » 9 years ago

I'd say it's little effect, may not get all the 50-50 calls but refs don't go out of their way against us

Shaolin Swat · Unread post by **Shaolin Swat** » 9 years ago

Looking at the raw numbers, it doesn't look like DH is really losing calls for being so fiery on the sidelines. I'd think that the difference in fouls called is related more to Dan's high motor style of defense compared to CFL's "defense" and how the game is called now by the refs.

Da_Process_Survivor · Unread post by **Da_Process_Survivor** » 9 years ago

I say its a net zero.

Does it cost them some benefit of the doubt calls? Sure

But it also fires up the team. A team will reflect their coach's demeanor and attitude. Hurley being so amped up and fiery makes the team that way too.

I can live with missing out on a few calls if it means we get a team that plays with an edge and all out intensity.

edit: in terms of the fouls stats above, that is more about the team playing a tight aggresive man-2-man defense vs Baron's softer than baby poop brand of defense.

twisted3829 · Unread post by **twisted3829** » 9 years ago

ramster wrote:Here are the Statistics for Fouls Called for URI and for Opponents for past 5 years.

Year URI/OPPONENT
HURLEY 2014 - 694/668 URI +26
HURLEY 2013 - 651/648 URI +3
HURLEY 2012 - 561/526 URI +35
BARON 2011 - 559/583 URI -24
BARON 2010 - 607/617 URI -10

Year URI/OPPONENT
In Conference Only
HURLEY 2014 - 360/361 URI -1
HURLEY 2013 - 328/322 URI +6
HURLEY 2012 - 327/287 URI +40
BARON 2011 - 225/252 URI -27

the raw number from last year is a little misreading until you realize that it comes out to less than a foul a game difference

bressler3south · Unread post by **bressler3south** » 9 years ago

It's not the number of calls, it's the timing and the quality of the calls that should be measured as to how they affect the results.

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 9 years ago

bressler3south wrote:It's not the number of calls, it's the timing and the quality of the calls that should be measured as to how they affect the results.

I think you're right, but it's impossible to measure that, which makes this whole thing kind of a fool's errand.

Running Ram · Unread post by **Running Ram** » 9 years ago

I'm waiting for the "it doesn't matter to me what the refs think of Dan Hurley, because I don't think much of the refs" choice. I don't think there would be any way to ever say if DH's behavior has ever cost a game because if it did it would be on the refs to admit bias and that's never happening. Look, the quality of the reffing for our games is often infuriating and I'm probably not as excitable as DH but I'd have to imagine losing my shit over some of the non-sense that gets to pass for officiating.

This discussion should be about what any of us could do about the putrid officiating we get stuck with.

Ramblinrose · Unread post by **Ramblinrose** » 9 years ago

Not only are the refs incompetent they all belong to a cult that hates URI. All of them.

theblueram · Unread post by **theblueram** » 9 years ago

Has there ever been a game when the entire crowd stood up and booed off the officials? I think we did that once last year. In fact, we booed them when they came back on the court after halftime. In the NIT on national tv no less.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

Which game did Cox have to be restrained at half time?
I don't remember a crowd booing that load at the refs at the RC.

Shaolin Swat · Unread post by **Shaolin Swat** » 9 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:Which game did Cox have to be restrained at half time?
I don't remember a crowd booing that load at the refs at the RC.

I think that it was the NIT game vs Iona, but I'm not 100% sure

Does Dan Hurley arguing calls help or hurt the team overall?