Big East - Basketball Only Schools Leaving

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

This non starter isn't because of RPI, it's because of
geographical and other considerations.
If those Western schools wanted to band together, why would they need the A-10???
You're just grabbing names. It sounds like a Felix Hernandez trade
proposal on Boston.com
Totally without logic or merit.

CT Rhody · Unread post by **CT Rhody** » 11 years ago

If basketball lightweights like Providence, Depaul, Seton Hall, and St John's can steal the top A-10 teams than anything can happen in conference realignment these days. The reason why the East/West breakout works so well is because of the TV money it would be able to produce, I think it would demand more than the Catholic League would by far due to the amount of markets and land it covers. And we know how money talks which is why teams are leaving the A-10 in the first place.

Playing in the #1 ranked Basketball conference in the land and securing a 3-5Million dollar TV contract anually would be why these teams would join to force one big national conference.

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 11 years ago

The East/West deal doesn't work at all, for the sole purpose that most of the Western schools listed are football schools.

If realignment has taught us anything, it's that football drives the bus, and you are either going to chase the money or get left behind.

The odds on those schools is that they end up with the old BE schools in a national football conference, not in a national basketball conference. There is no money in that.

Ramblinrose · Unread post by **Ramblinrose** » 11 years ago

If I had to bet, I think the new Catholic conference would probably land X, Butler and Dayton, almost certainly Butler, maybe GW, St. Joe and Saint Louis. and maybe others from the A-10. URI would end up fending for itself in a weakened A-10, unfortunately.
Regrettably, the Baron years made URI something of a nonentity for the last decade, not like Fordham or La Salle but not X, either. Hurley looks like he will transform things but would stronger teams want to align with URI based on speculation?

Ramulous · Unread post by **Ramulous** » 11 years ago

We would have to have been a perennial Sweet 16, Elite 8, Final 4 kind of team to be invited into that league....they won't have pc and URI in the same league...there was and is no way it is happening......X and Butler hold our future in their hands and I think they will bail on the A-10

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

Just don't see why Dayton gets in since they share the Ohio market and aren't exactly NCAA perennial invites. They do have strong fanbase and facilities but why take then if you have X to own the Ohio market?

Brutus · Unread post by **Brutus** » 11 years ago

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/colleg ... itter_feed

Ramblinrose · Unread post by **Ramblinrose** » 11 years ago

ATP. Ohio is a big state and a big market. Dayton is not the powerhouse of X or Butler. But the team draws well in a hoops-mad area. I don't see Dayton as a lock but X and Butler are probably gone if they want to be.
Obviously there's no loyalty, as we've seen with the Big East downfall. Ramulous. I don't think the Catholic is going to see URI as a good fit and there's really no advantage to having both PC and URI. I don't think someone in New York saying, "Wow. We could get fans both in Cranston AND in South County.'

RhodeRule · Unread post by **RhodeRule** » 11 years ago

I don't think the CYO 7 is going to see the money they hope to.

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 11 years ago

The basketball schools are going to want more than $1 million. They will probably get that, if most of the "experts" are correct.

What comes next is the expected bidding war. NBC Sports really wants their hand in a solid basketball conference, top to bottom. They were salivating at the chance of catching the old Big East on the open market, where they were reportedly willing to throw over $200 million annually, about $80 million more than ESPN.

So that didn't happen, and they are still left with a basketball stable of what, the A-10 (likely weakening), the MWC (collapsing), and the Ivy League (tissue paper). If they want to get relevant in the college athletics scene, they would have to make a run at not only the C-7, but the remaining BE schools and their follow-up conference as well.

That would provide them with a national football conference (average, but better than nothing), and two solid basketball conferences.

How much they overpay remains to be seen, but they want to battle ESPN, and making a powerplay and getting some conferences in the fold is the only way they can. It would not surprise me to see the C7+3 overbid on at $1.5 million or maybe slightly more. Because let's be honest, if ESPN and NBC were to give you similar, or even slighly more, who would you choose? I'd take ESPN in a landslide.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 11 years ago

rjsuperfly66 wrote:The basketball schools are going to want more than $1 million. They will probably get that, if most of the "experts" are correct.

What comes next is the expected bidding war. NBC Sports really wants their hand in a solid basketball conference, top to bottom. They were salivating at the chance of catching the old Big East on the open market, where they were reportedly willing to throw over $200 million annually, about $80 million more than ESPN.

So that didn't happen, and they are still left with a basketball stable of what, the A-10 (likely weakening), the MWC (collapsing), and the Ivy League (tissue paper). If they want to get relevant in the college athletics scene, they would have to make a run at not only the C-7, but the remaining BE schools and their follow-up conference as well.

That would provide them with a national football conference (average, but better than nothing), and two solid basketball conferences.

How much they overpay remains to be seen, but they want to battle ESPN, and making a powerplay and getting some conferences in the fold is the only way they can. It would not surprise me to see the C7+3 overbid on at $1.5 million or maybe slightly more. Because let's be honest, if ESPN and NBC were to give you similar, or even slighly more, who would you choose? I'd take ESPN in a landslide.

Bernadette McGlade has done wonders as Commissioner of the A10. I would not count her out in being able to make the A10 come out strong in this environment once all the dust settles.
“The Atlantic 10 is proud of and serious about our conference commitment to being the best Division I basketball-centric conference in the country,” she said. “Our focus and mission will not change going forward and we will continue to make decisions that enhance the strength and brand of this league.”

http://blogs.gwhatchet.com/courtside/ta ... e-mcglade/
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketb ... basketball
http://www.gazettenet.com/home/3431175- ... tic-market

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 11 years ago

I think the A-10's long-term survival is based a lot on the Big East's short-term approach.

If they grab 3 schools (say Xavier, Dayton, and Butler), that takes away two of the power schools from the top, but could leave VCU with potential additions George Mason and Creighton which lessens the blow significantly. Heck, shorterm you would probably be better off since X is rebuilding and Dayton is average. This option is salvagable to build a very good basketball conference out of, and probably best case at this point.

If they grab 5 schools (say those 3 with two of VCU/GMason/Creighton), I think that changes the picture drastically. The A-10 would have to get really creative, and the survival plan would not be as instananeous. If you need to fill three spots, but can't include George Mason or Creighton, where do you go? It's a pretty big gap, at least from a consistency standpoint. It's not football schools, so cross them off. Perhaps Old Dominion, schools of that quality. It's a tougher road, and a noticable drop.

Honestly, if the BE took the 5, I think the A-10 would be wise to do two things:

1) Try to break apart and create a merger with the best of the MVC and CAA. Maybe 10 or 12 teams tops.

2) Try to create a 12 or 16 team with western teams. That would probably be 6 or 8 from the East/West. Gonzaga, St. Mary's, Maybe BYU jumps on, maybe with Witchita, Denver (or another mountain time zone team that isn't football), and Santa Clara.

If it's three, pick up Mason and Creighton, and call it a day.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 11 years ago

xavier
butler
dayton
gtown
marquette
pc
villanova
seton hall
st johns
rutgers

xavier
butler
dayton
vcu
st louis
rhode island
umass
richmond
st joes
duquesne
gw
TBD

i do not see how the latter (12 team) from a TV standpoint isn't of comparable value. gtown is the only true national brand of either bunch, that i give the C7. HOWEVER, top to bottom it is arguable the latter league is stronger, more geographically dispersed, has a few national brand name coaches in stevens, smart, hurley, 3 programs that have competed at an elite national level over the last 5 years (X, VCU, Butler) and a bunch of programs trending upward. either way if there is a difference it is marginal, i just dont understand why its not feasible for our league to be pro-active, drop some obv dead weight and make a move first.

Ramblinrose · Unread post by **Ramblinrose** » 11 years ago

I think historically the A-10 has been reactive more than pro-active. This past year it became aggressive in landing Butler. But that may be divorce proceeding.

adam914 · Unread post by **adam914** » 11 years ago

Ramblinrose wrote:I think historically the A-10 has been reactive more than pro-active. This past year it became aggressive in landing Butler. But that may be divorce proceeding.

I never understand opinions like this. Unless we have inside knowledge of whatever negotiations are or are not happening behind the scenes how do we know who is being proactive or reactive? Seems to me that anytime something good happens that means they were proactive and anytime something either doesnt happen or its not the best outcome that means they were reactive.

Its possible to be proactive but to just not get what you want. You cant force other schools to come/stay sometimes no matter how proactive you are.

seanmc94 · Unread post by **seanmc94** » 11 years ago

You are completely insane. SJU alone makes the first group more appealing bc of ny

Ramblinrose · Unread post by **Ramblinrose** » 11 years ago

Adam: I have no idea how aggressive the A-10 is being. But the results have been that it's often been considered an also-ran conference. It made big strides with Butler and JCU. We'll see how that holds up. I wouldn't hold your breath waiting to see Butler at the RC in this lifetime, probably see them at the Dunk against PC someday. That's a shame for URI.
Sean: I agree that St. John's will always have some clout based on location.

wakefield · Unread post by **wakefield** » 11 years ago

The A10 has to wait and see which teams are leaving before they can add new ones. For example if Dayton stays they can try to add Cleveland St. I read somewhere they should also add Davidson.

reef · Unread post by **reef** » 11 years ago

over 500 posts and close to 11 k views, this thread amazing

URI96 · Unread post by **URI96** » 11 years ago

The presidents of the CYO7 are meeting face to face ths week.

UCH21377 · Unread post by **UCH21377** » 11 years ago

Now the entire Big East football thing may fall apart. Boise not coming, SDSU trying to get back into the Mountain West, Navy reconsidering.

ElmCityRhody · Unread post by **ElmCityRhody** » 11 years ago

if football falls apart will the C7 get back into the big east ?

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

UConn is welcome to join A10 for a while

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 11 years ago

C7 wants nothing to do with the football schools. If a football school or two was able to show and illustrate a basketball-first commitment, maybe the basketball schools would consider partnering with them, but even that would seem unlikely. Eventually, these football schools are going to break into two groups, the major conferences and "the others."

The goal is to get away from the money chase of the football schools as they chase super conferences and mega-TV deals. They are going to stay far away from any school chasing that dream after how it destroyed the Big East. Why would you want to re-partner with them after leaving? The situation would only be the same -- Watch the football schools publically beg day after day for an invite to the ACC or B10 while pretending to care about the basketball schools. How do you ever have a stable conference when you have members publically begging every day for a better football opportunity? That's why they left in the first place, stability. The Big East football conference was becoming a joke, and that was hurting basketball.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Agree with your post superfly.
What I find odd is, until BC bolted, everyone, including the football schools,
seemed pretty content.
Then everyone started looking to better deal themselves into other conferences.
With BSU , SMU, and San Diego State, at least, having second thoughts on the Big East,
this is getting weirder by the day.
I wonder how it will all shake out?

sandman012 · Unread post by **sandman012** » 11 years ago

merging the C7 with what's left of the A10 obv won't happen ... who would want a 21 team conference of the teams that hold the cards (the C7 plus the top A10 programs)

silver lining ... we'll have a better shot at the conference title of the new new A10

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 11 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:Agree with your post superfly.
What I find odd is, until BC bolted, everyone, including the football schools,
seemed pretty content.
Then everyone started looking to better deal themselves into other conferences.
With BSU , SMU, and San Diego State, at least, having second thoughts on the Big East,
this is getting weirder by the day.
I wonder how it will all shake out?

Right now, the "Big East" football conference has no leverage. When Boise and all those teams joined, the BE was still a BCS football program. It was clearly a step up from where they were, and it was a risk they had to take. Now it is not. They are lumped in with "the other guys," when it comes to the big games under the new playoff system. The best of the rest of those conferences gets an "automatic" invite. Whoever gets ranked the highest out of the MWC, CUSA, BE, they get in, so what real benefit is there for Boise to play in that national conference?

When you factor in travel expenses which would triple + all the school these kids would miss as a result, was it really worth the "nationally conference" model, or staying more local? The new Big East football conference could only have a marginally higher TV contract, something easily negated by travel. If the BE schools hit an agreement to make $10 million per season, than it makes sense. But why do USF, Cincy, UCONN, Houston, SMU, Tulane, UCF, and Memphis deserve much more than the MWC?

Ramulous · Unread post by **Ramulous** » 11 years ago

When Tranghese was the head of the big east he managed to parlay his acumen and connections into getting the big east included with the big time football conferences....

....unfortunately the product on the field couldn't overcome the political connections of Tranghese, which they lost after he retired....Marinatto didn't possess Tranghese's skill set....and the other conferences in conjunction with TV saw the future as having 4 big conferences and all the other conferences at the kiddie table...

.....what would have saved all the other conferences would have been to push for a national championship playoff that was like Division 1-AA.....all conference champs get an automatic invite and a few at-larges to make 16 teams....then every school has a chance to win the national title....but they all stuck with greed and the bowl game system which has one meaningful bowl and every other one as an exhibition game, essentially.....

....I haven't watched a single bowl game.....I won't until I watch Notre Dame and Alabama....I don't know the stats like attendance and television ratings of these exhibition bowls....someday...if the numbers are poor....the sponsors will say we no longer want our name associated with these games.....

....we all know that X and Butler hold the future of the A-10 in their hands....go with Georgetown and the other C7's...many of whom are relying on past glory....or stay with the A-10.....I think they go even though if they stay the A-10 would be stronger than the C7 and whomever they get to fill out their conference.....who is left for the C7 to invite that would excite them?

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 11 years ago

Ramulous wrote:what would have saved all the other conferences would have been to push for a national championship playoff that was like Division 1-AA.....all conference champs get an automatic invite and a few at-larges to make 16 teams....then every school has a chance to win the national title....but they all stuck with greed and the bowl game system which has one meaningful bowl and every other one as an exhibition game, essentially.....

....we all know that X and Butler hold the future of the A-10 in their hands....go with Georgetown and the other C7's...many of whom are relying on past glory....or stay with the A-10.....I think they go even though if they stay the A-10 would be stronger than the C7 and whomever they get to fill out their conference.....who is left for the C7 to invite that would excite them?

Ram, read this article: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nc ... a/1799121/. Just looks at how attendance to the bowl games are terrible. College football should have gone to 16 teams, or at least 8. The way the system is set up, it will still favor stronger conferences. SOS is everything, and I can't say I disagree, but when you take a small amount of teams, it hurts more.

As for the C7, there are various options that excite the fans. The first one is the obvious get Xavier, Dayton, and a 3rd team. The 2nd option if they backed out would be to chase down George Mason, Creighton, and a 3rd team. The 3rd option would be to get interesting and partner up with western teams (Gonzaga, St. Mary's) and go to the two division model. I mentioned it earlier in this thread as a possible A-10 model, and I'm still not opposed to seeing the BE visit this.

Ramulous · Unread post by **Ramulous** » 11 years ago

Georgetown would probably oppose George Mason.....Creighton, Gonzaga, and St. Mary's pose travel problems for the lesser sports if they are members for all sports.....the money for C7+ is going to be less than they currently get in the hybrid big east....it will be more than X and Butler earn in the A-10 however, and this may be enough for them to bolt the A-10...

UCH21377 · Unread post by **UCH21377** » 11 years ago

If UConn cannot get a major conference all-sports invite, would they consider going with the c7 schools for all other sports and try to cut themselves a deal for football only? It's not out of the question. Do they really want to send their soccer, track, baseball, etc, mens and women's teams all over the country to play sports with SMU Houston UCF etc when there is no football payoff?

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

the A10 needs to somehow rid themselves of the weak bottom teams, and somehow redo their TV deal to make more money for the remaining programs, making the league more attractive to join. Or for schools like X and Butler to stay.

Otherwise, they will most likely leave for better TV money. Whatever it takes. As long as URI isn't one of the schools dropped!

sandman012 · Unread post by **sandman012** » 11 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:the A10 needs to somehow rid themselves of the weak bottom teams,

Is there any precedent for a conference kicking teams out?

gorhody89 · Unread post by **gorhody89** » 11 years ago

sandman012 wrote:
rambone 78 wrote:the A10 needs to somehow rid themselves of the weak bottom teams,
Is there any precedent for a conference kicking teams out?

Nobody seems to have an answer for that, I cannot think of a case where a school was kicked out of a conference.

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 11 years ago

gorhody89 wrote:
sandman012 wrote:
rambone 78 wrote:the A10 needs to somehow rid themselves of the weak bottom teams,
Is there any precedent for a conference kicking teams out?

Nobody seems to have an answer for that, I cannot think of a case where a school was kicked out of a conference.

The Big East kicked Temple out for football. If I remember correctly, though, I believe it was because they had some type of marker they failed to hit that was part of their initial invite (attendance, stadium size, something like that).

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 11 years ago

If I had to guess, I would say you probably need some sort of 75+% majority.

But if it goes the same way most conferences go, newer teams don't have the votes for a few years, and teams leaving don't have votes.

So take out Butler, VCU, Charlotte, and Temple, and that leaves 12 teams.

Using that barometer, 9 teams could vote out 3 teams. If it required an 80+% majority, 10 teams could vote out 2.

I'm sure it isn't that simple though, but that would be my best guess.

BFC · Unread post by **BFC** » 11 years ago

"• The Catholic 7 have the familiar names, the tradition and the media markets, but the schools had better start playing well to make offering a lucrative television deal sensible.

• I still think if Butler and Xavier get an offer from Marquette, Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's, Seton Hall, Providence and DePaul, then they'll both take it."

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketb ... basketball

section(105) · Unread post by **section(105)** » 11 years ago

Conferences shedding programs is no doubt a legal due process deal, where a school would had to have failed to live up to an exisitng contract, agreement or condition to maintain its standing in the conference. It seems this would apply to a conference that remains itself active, if a conference votes itself to end then................?? In the case of Temple, football, I think it was their failure to have increased their football home venue stadium to an conference required mimimum capacity by a certain agreed upon date.

Ramulous · Unread post by **Ramulous** » 11 years ago

But when the big east needed Temple to help save their conference there was no longer a problem.

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 11 years ago

Honestly, all that shows is how much money matters in the scheme of things. The Big East could kick Temple out, tell them to go screw for being a terrible program, end up in the MAC, get decent under Al Golden and make two bowl games, and get invited back in because it was all crumbling.

There is no such thing as loyalty. If the ACC came to Villanova and/or Georgetown and say "Hey guys, I know you came out and said you are basketball first, but we got a sweet deal for you: Upgrade your football to D1 and let's rock and roll. Join us!" they would be there in a flash. The odds of that happening are basically slim to none, but any school with a football program and a decent endowment and capabilities always has the ability to jump, and 'Nova and G'town because of their rich basketball tradition would probably be up on the list.

That is what makes the realignment even more of a pain in the ass. You really can't trust anyone. Your friends for decades will stab your back, and even when they "share the best interests", what the hell does that really mean anyway?

Ramblinrose · Unread post by **Ramblinrose** » 11 years ago

Loyalty is a matter of convenience. BC jumped the ACC, even though it made no sense from a rivalries standpoint. And it's gone on and and on.
The A-10 did a great job landing Butler. But I firmly believe Butler is gone, baby, gone.

daytonflyerfan · Unread post by **daytonflyerfan** » 11 years ago

I don't know if this was posted on here already or not.

It's a spreadsheet with the profiles of all the candidates for the new BE conference.

Some interesting information.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... utput=html

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

sandman012 wrote:
rambone 78 wrote:the A10 needs to somehow rid themselves of the weak bottom teams,
Is there any precedent for a conference kicking teams out?

You wouldn't really "kick" them out like they were the unpopular kid in the tree house. The rest of the members would vote on new bylaws that the unwanted programs would find untenable (i.e., a certain amount of financial commitment to a sport on an annual basis) and the unwanted programs would leave of their own volition (or, alternatively, they would come into compliance and hopefully that would have the welcome effect of having their program not be a drag on the rest of the league).

Ramblinrose · Unread post by **Ramblinrose** » 11 years ago

Dayton fan: What surprised me is that Butler averaged 6,500 in a 10,000 seat arena. Not what I had imagined.

daytonflyerfan · Unread post by **daytonflyerfan** » 11 years ago

I've been to Hinkle Fieldhouse to see a game. It's a neat, old school gym.

Butler's attendance actually decreased last year, the year after 2 straight Final 4's. That is very surprising. I guess there is too much competition from Indiana, Purdue, Notre Dame, and the Pacers.

Butler 2009 5,897
Butler 2010 6,852 Final 4 year
Butler 2011 7,178 Final 4 year
Butler 2012 6,599

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 11 years ago

daytonflyerfan wrote:I've been to Hinkle Fieldhouse to see a game. It's a neat, old school gym.

Butler's attendance actually decreased last year, the year after 2 straight Final 4's. That is very surprising. I guess there is too much competition from Indiana, Purdue, Notre Dame, and the Pacers.

Butler 2009 5,897
Butler 2010 6,852 Final 4 year
Butler 2011 7,178 Final 4 year
Butler 2012 6,599

This is just a trend in college hoops in general. Unless you are a blue blood or a team having an above average season, attendance is going down pretty much across the board. Students, for the most part, are less amped up to go than a generation ago. The quality of the TV experience has led to regulars not showing up as much. It's sad because a great college hoops game live is tough to beat. It's also why attendance really means very little in the conference merry go round.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

The variety of entertainment choices available to people in their living rooms has also led to less attendance among casual fans. It isn't just that you can enjoy the game as much from your couch: you can also enjoy a variety of other things you may be more interested in than the game.

Rhode_Island_Red · Unread post by **Rhode_Island_Red** » 11 years ago

rjsuperfly66 wrote:
Ramulous wrote:what would have saved all the other conferences would have been to push for a national championship playoff that was like Division 1-AA.....all conference champs get an automatic invite and a few at-larges to make 16 teams....then every school has a chance to win the national title....but they all stuck with greed and the bowl game system which has one meaningful bowl and every other one as an exhibition game, essentially.....

....we all know that X and Butler hold the future of the A-10 in their hands....go with Georgetown and the other C7's...many of whom are relying on past glory....or stay with the A-10.....I think they go even though if they stay the A-10 would be stronger than the C7 and whomever they get to fill out their conference.....who is left for the C7 to invite that would excite them?
Ram, read this article: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nc ... a/1799121/. Just looks at how attendance to the bowl games are terrible. College football should have gone to 16 teams, or at least 8. The way the system is set up, it will still favor stronger conferences. SOS is everything, and I can't say I disagree, but when you take a small amount of teams, it hurts more.

As for the C7, there are various options that excite the fans. The first one is the obvious get Xavier, Dayton, and a 3rd team. The 2nd option if they backed out would be to chase down George Mason, Creighton, and a 3rd team. The 3rd option would be to get interesting and partner up with western teams (Gonzaga, St. Mary's) and go to the two division model. I mentioned it earlier in this thread as a possible A-10 model, and I'm still not opposed to seeing the BE visit this.

Attendance at bowl games is only a concern for the participating schools that have to buy a minimum number of tickets. Several years ago ESPN began buying up all the second- and third-rate bowls because as television programming they're money-makers. On average, even the New York System Bowl, the Salad Bowl, the Soup Bowl, the Ty-d-bol and the Manute Bol attract more viewers than college basketball. The BCS Cartel Championship will draw at least twice as many viewers as the NCAA basketball final. That's why the Sacred Seven can do whatever they want, because when the cartel asserts itself and vacuums up all the television time the Sacred Seven will be just as invisible as everyone else.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

Love the Manute Bol! I think I missed it this year, though.

Ramulous · Unread post by **Ramulous** » 11 years ago

I agree with Red.....you are either BCS football.....or you are on the outside looking in....even the C7 and whichever A-10 schools go with them will be making less than they would with the hybrid big east....they may make more than the other mid-major conferences...and then have to compete with BCS schools for the top high school talent...