URI @ Harvard Saturday Nov 7

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 10 years ago

Well, if massive turnovers were present in the two scrimmages,
that's not a good sign.
We have three guards on the floor in the main offense. You would expect
better ball handling.
Nothing gets you out of a game quicker than turning the ball over.
When this happens on the road, it has a way of really getting the crowd into it.
Again, we don't know which players were at fault.
Exhibition, scrimmage, whatever the case, the turnovers are killers.
Hopefully, it's something that can be addressed before we hit our real schedule
after the first two games.

Ram Stampede!!! · Unread post by **Ram Stampede!!!** » 10 years ago

I like these scrimmage games. The staff can see what they need to fix to get things moving more smoothly. But really, we start our season in a week. Hopefully the nature of our schedule is just what this team needs to grow. What I'm talking about is the sequential increase in strength following each opponent from Pace < Umass Lowell < Nebraska < Kansas.

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 10 years ago

BPR2010 wrote:I think what you have to take away from these scrimmages is that we've faced 2 teams that were NCAA tournament attendees last year. Harvard is almost a lock to return this year. Although Manhattan lost most of their team to graduation, their style of play is breakneck speed and you're running for 40 minutes. The fact that we were exposed to a high level team in Harvard before anything actually counts, I feel, is a positive. Regardless if we "lost or won". These are bigger tests than the Pace and Lowell games will be. THOSE will be glorified scrimmages too. Yet, because we'll be able to see that with our own eyes, we can draw more conclusions in what will be a more structured game too. I saw this weekend the UCLA-UNLV scrimmage was 55 minutes! Great for conditioning and getting all rotations in, but that shows what these closed scrimmages can entail.

This is it. They aren't meaningless because we didn't see them. Its great competition against teams that are better right now without the losses counting. They'll grow from it, especially the young kids.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 10 years ago

Gonebarongone wrote:
BPR2010 wrote:I think what you have to take away from these scrimmages is that we've faced 2 teams that were NCAA tournament attendees last year. Harvard is almost a lock to return this year. Although Manhattan lost most of their team to graduation, their style of play is breakneck speed and you're running for 40 minutes. The fact that we were exposed to a high level team in Harvard before anything actually counts, I feel, is a positive. Regardless if we "lost or won". These are bigger tests than the Pace and Lowell games will be. THOSE will be glorified scrimmages too. Yet, because we'll be able to see that with our own eyes, we can draw more conclusions in what will be a more structured game too. I saw this weekend the UCLA-UNLV scrimmage was 55 minutes! Great for conditioning and getting all rotations in, but that shows what these closed scrimmages can entail.
This is it. They aren't meaningless because we didn't see them. Its great competition against teams that are better right now without the losses counting. They'll grow from it, especially the young kids.

Exactly. They definitely aren't meaningless to the team, but they should be meaningless to how fans feel about the team. They definitely serve a purpose, but that purpose is not to shed any light on what kind of a team we have based on third-person descriptions of how they went.

theblueram · Unread post by **theblueram** » 10 years ago

I don't think they are meaningless to the fan's perception of the team. If we have issues with turnovers or free throws or breaking a press 1 week before the season starts, that is meaningful. And if it's signifcant deficiancies, they won't be corrected in one week.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 10 years ago

theblueram wrote:I don't think they are meaningless to the fan's perception of the team. If we have issues with turnovers or free throws or breaking a press 1 week before the season starts, that is meaningful. And if it's signifcant deficiancies, they won't be corrected in one week.

How do you know they have deficiencies with turnovers?

theblueram · Unread post by **theblueram** » 10 years ago

I don't. I wasn't there.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 10 years ago

Right. That is my entire point about these scrimmages. Dan knows if they had problems with turnovers, so the scrimmage has some meaning for him. But we don't have any idea. Even if we saw it reported somewhere, the reporters weren't there either. I just won't put any stock into third-hand information about a game that we played in that we didn't care whether we won or lost. Its just too flimsy for me. I want to wait until a real game to make a judgment.

theblueram · Unread post by **theblueram** » 10 years ago

We will have that chance on friday. I would expect we kick the crap out of Pace. I will be watching turnovers and free throws. They killed us last year.

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 10 years ago

While I'm not encouraged by the leaks from each scrimmage, please remember these are teams that each have things they want to accomplish and work on with each game, and if they win...great. I assume there was little to no scouting or game planning for the opponent in either game; they were more about things we wanted to work on...that is my assumption and what keeps me from going nuts about the outcome of these games.

Unread post by **SGreenwell** » 10 years ago

One thing that caught my eye - I believe it was said that the team played even minutes. That's typically something that happens in the preseason / exhibition games too, where pretty much any scholarship player will get minutes. In the regular season, Matthews is probably playing 30+ minutes, etc. So, if the playing time distribution information is true, it also makes pretty much all the stats taken from the game useless.

Rhody72 · Unread post by **Rhody72** » 10 years ago

It is good to scrimmage against better teams who make you pay for your mistakes. Since TJ wasn't at Harvard, I assume the TOs were from JG and BM - not a surprise at all. They shouldn't keep score at scrimmages. The score is meaningless - coaches are more concerned about offensive and defensive sets rather than outplaying their opponent. Win or lose, the bus ride home should be the same.

Iggy1979 · Unread post by **Iggy1979** » 10 years ago

So it was 37-25 at half, not 37-12. URI struggled offensively, with too many turnovers and EC having to force up some shots. Disappointing that Gil only had 7 points. He needs to be more of an offensive force. I agree with Roady Jay: outside shooting and turnovers are concerns at this point.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 10 years ago

Why do I believe URI had a problem with turnovers during the Harvard game?
Because I trust Chris Disano.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 10 years ago

I trust Chris also, but I don't think he was there either.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 10 years ago

I'm betting his source was the URI coaching staff.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 10 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:I'm betting his source was the URI coaching staff.

I think you are right. I also think people have all sorts of reasons for leaking information. I don't know what the agenda is, but that is kind of the point. I'm sure the scrimmages were very valuable for the coaches and players, I just think that the combination of the nature of what a scrimmage is and the fact that we really only have third-hand information about how it went in a general sense makes the overall value of the information minimal.

I'm not saying what was reported is wrong, I'm just saying I don't know how good the information is so I don't value it. I'd rather just wait until I can watch myself to make observations about what this team will or won't do well and how good it can be.

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 10 years ago

I don't think there is an agenda. Fans love getting leaked info so the coaches/SID/whoever was there give it out to reporters in return for stuff down the line. That relationship is always a two way street. DH is not thinking "let me make something up about turnovers to hide something else". Why is a young team losing to a better team because of turnovers and bad outside shooting so unbelievable? It's more likely than not how it went down. So what.

Ram Stampede!!! · Unread post by **Ram Stampede!!!** » 10 years ago

I really hope you're right TP. For the sake of our entire season. I really am hoping that these games don't mean a thing as fans because if not. Come thanksgiving, we are headed to the wood chipper vs Kansas on nat'l tv. Just a reality that I hope doesn't come to fruition.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 10 years ago

GBG - I don't know how many different ways I can say it, but somehow I'm obviously not explaining myself well. I'm not accusing anyone of lying or of grand media conspiracies. I just think that because scrimmages and exhibition games are virtually meaningless for fans looking for clues about the team (not for coaches and players), and because we didn't see it and don't have any context, I am just completely agnostic about the information from the scrimmages. I'm not saying it is good or bad, accurate or inaccurate. I'm saying I don't KNOW what to make of it or why it exists or how accurate it is, so I just don't value it one way or the other.

We very well may turn it over 30 times against Nebraska, or we may do a much better job of protecting possession than we did last year. But I'm not going to make any guesses about that based on what are essentially rumors about a glorified practice.

My assumption is that overall we will be improved but we will still have some bad games. Nothing I could possibly hear about a scrimmage is going to change that for me at this point.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 10 years ago

Dan is known for speaking without a censor.
He never ducks a question, either.
I'm sure if asked a question of what went on, Dan spoke candidly, as usual.

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 10 years ago

TruePoint wrote:GBG - I don't know how many different ways I can say it, but somehow I'm obviously not examining myself well. I'm not accusing anyone of lying or of grand media conspiracies. I just think that because scrimmages and exhibition games are virtually meaningless for fans looking for clues about the team (not for coaches and players), and because we didn't see it and don't have any context, I am just completely agnostic about the information from the scrimmages. I'm not saying it is good or bad, accurate or inaccurate. I'm saying I don't KNOW what to make of it or why it exists or how accurate it is, so I just don't value it one way or the other.

We very well may turn it over 30 times against Nebraska, or we may do a much better job of protecting possession than we did last year. But I'm not going to make any guesses about that based on what are essentially rumors about a glorified practice.

My assumption is that overall we will be improved but we will still have some bad games. Nothing I could possibly hear about a scrimmage is going to change that for me at this point.

That's fair. But, let me ask you a question, if there was a tweet from a reliable reporter that Garrett went for 12 points, 9 assists, and zero turnovers against Siyani Chambers, would you be still a dyed in the wool agnostic? I just don't think there is anything wrong with adding this one little point of information to the pie of how we look at this team or the expectations one has. Again, I realize in the grand scheme of things this discussion will be long gone in days. But, these were two good tests and I like hearing what came out of them, good and bad.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

The thing that makes me feel a little better about the 2 scrimmages, is that the minutes were evenly split, more or less. Everybody is getting a chance to show what they can or can't do at this point.

That, in turn, doesn't help the "flow" of the games, which might explain the sloppy play that was described.

Obviously a large part of what went on was experimenting with different combinations, etc. I'm not surprised if JT or JG are turning it over, they are freshmen and playing against good teams will cause that.

I'm NOT surprised if Biggie or JR are turning it over, it's what they do.

It's going to take a while to gain a cohesive half court offense. JG should be the answer for that in time, along with EC.

Our backcourt is very young, but talented. It's going to take time to gel. Terrell and JG will play, and play a lot very soon, just like EC and Hassan did last year. The faster their development is speeded up, the better.

Outside shooting is going to be a question, no doubt about it. Last year, we had games where nobody could hit an outside shot. That shouldn't happen that often this year, hopefully, as long as JG is as advertised in that regard.

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 10 years ago

Good point, rambone. They couldn't hit from the free throw line either.

HASwatTeam · Unread post by **HASwatTeam** » 10 years ago

A player on the team is in a few of my classes. I talked to him after the manhattan scrimmage and he explained it went "okay". Today he in so many words implied the Harvard scrimmage was a little rough. He knows they have a lot of work to do. But, from talking to him, he explained these scrimmages are not structured with plays but instead more of a pick up game. Just seeing what the players can do. My knee jerk reaction is the same as everyone else's, discouraged, but today is November 10th, not March 10th. Its big to remember that.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 10 years ago

Welcome, Matthew. Thanks for posting. We will see how it goes but my thoughts are that you should hold your discouragement for a game that counts and that you can actually see.

adam914 · Unread post by **adam914** » 10 years ago

Friday can't get here soon enough...

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 10 years ago

matthew_luca wrote:A player on the team is in a few of my classes. I talked to him after the manhattan scrimmage and he explained it went "okay". Today he in so many words implied the Harvard scrimmage was a little rough. He knows they have a lot of work to do. But, from talking to him, he explained these scrimmages are not structured with plays but instead more of a pick up game. Just seeing what the players can do. My knee jerk reaction is the same as everyone else's, discouraged, but today is November 10th, not March 10th. Its big to remember that.

Nice to see a student here. We need you guys. Let's fill the than Ryan Center this year and go crazy!!!

Iggy1979 · Unread post by **Iggy1979** » 10 years ago

I think turnovers could be a problem for EC in some games. Munford and EC had the most turnovers on the team last year because they handled the ball the most. This year, EC will handle it even more, so it will be interesting to see how well he protects the ball. And the freshmen will have their share. But any upperclassmen, particularly Minnis, that can't take care of the ball will end up sitting a lot.

Smokinjimit · Unread post by **Smokinjimit** » 10 years ago

If I'm coaching against us every time EC puts the ball on the floor he would be double and triple teamed. Collapse down so he cant get an easy dish off to the bigs. Make URI hit open jumpers. Don't let EC beat you.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 10 years ago

I hope I'm wrong, but with all the buzz around EC, I don't think he'll
sneak up on anyone this year.
Like him or not, Munford drew most of the opponent's attention
last year.
We'll see.

Iggy1979 · Unread post by **Iggy1979** » 10 years ago

I agree with Smokin and Rod. But EC is a better passer than Munford and potentially a much better ballhandler. Hopefully, when he draws a double team he hits the open guy. Make a team pay for double teams and they'll quickly stop doing it.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 10 years ago

I think it is a given that we are going to need at least one guy to step up to be a strong second option (similar to what EC was last year), and preferably have more guys step up to be viable third, fourth and fifth options. EC is great and we are lucky to have him, but nobody is good enough to be the only legitimate option on a good team. Good teams need more than one good player. Will be interesting to watch as the season unfolds if someone steps up and who that someone will be. I do think there are some interesting potential candidates.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 10 years ago

"Hard to guard". Harrick's mantra.
You need to score from three different players from different spots on the floor
at a given time.
This is why I think Jarvis Garrett is going to be a big boost to the offense, eventually.
A PG who can keep the defense honest and not sag down low.
Minnis is a guy who a team could almost ignore on the perimeter.
Gil and Hassan down low, and hopefully Terrell on the wing.
If these guys can help EC, it will make his life much easier, and make the team much better.

Rhody74 · Unread post by **Rhody74** » 10 years ago

Like DH said to Rooke and Cordischi, EC will be replacing X. Now they need someone to replace EC. I think we've got two great candidates in Jarvis and Jared.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 10 years ago

Rhody74 wrote:Like DH said to Rooke and Cordischi, EC will be replacing X. Now they need someone to replace EC. I think we've got two great candidates in Jarvis and Jared.

I agree that those two guys are huge additions to our program and along with EC they will form a great backcourt for URI at some point. But I don't think we can expect those two freshmen to have as easy of a transition as EC did. If they do, awesome. But I think it will be important to get something from Gil, to see further development from Hassan on the offensive end, etc. I have no doubt that the freshmen will play roles, but hopefully we aren't depending on them to be our second and third best players - at least not in December or January.

adam914 · Unread post by **adam914** » 10 years ago

One of my concerns going into the season is definitely that we'll have too many possessions that end up being EC trying to make something happen on his own or being forced to dribble around and throw up a shot late like X did at times. Hopefully that's something that we can avoid this year.

I think defense will have alot to do with that as well. I have to imagine they'll look to pressure and push the ball more in transition.

Iggy1979 · Unread post by **Iggy1979** » 10 years ago

I just had a crazy thought: how about when he's on the floor, TJ is one of their top offensive options? We think of him as not a great shooter, but inside the 3 point circle in A10 games last year he shot nearly 47 percent. He needs to get better at FTs because he goes to the line a lot. But maybe it's not crazy to think that he could score in double figures coming off the bench.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 10 years ago

At the very least, TJ is one of a few guys who they will need to get 12-15 every once in a while. They probably won't have the same third guy getting buckets every night, but they will need at least three guys to win most games.

Seawrightspostgame · Unread post by **Seawrightspostgame** » 10 years ago

TJ doesn't excite ppl on this board, but he is right up there along with a few others that really need to perform for this team to be respectable.

Many teams have won with 1 good offensive option, there are many ways to win outside of the glory years of URI where the stars aligned and URI rolled out a top backcourt or a top player here and there.

This program needs a tourney birth regardless of how they play. If TJ brings the ball up then thats what it is.

If the team doesn't make the tournament by the end of EC's eligibility then we have problems.

I'm not sure how this team, which returns everyone except X can play at the same level as last year.

McRam · Unread post by **McRam** » 10 years ago

I think we are making an assumption that TO's are an indication of guard play. Maybe not---

I did a 4o min. calculation and last year the highest turnover per 40 minutes was BM 3.26

Number two was Gil 3.18

TJ was an amazingly low at 2.30 (Bryce Cotton 2.43)
Billy B was 3.04 last year.
EC 2.92 Iffy 2.72 Hare (previous year) 2.34 Holton when he was here- 3.26

I think we tend to remember the ball being thrown away on a fast break or a set; but tend not to remember the travels after a defensive rebound, the travels putting an offensive rebound up;

What a surprise, bb is a team game, even in turnovers.

adam914 · Unread post by **adam914** » 10 years ago

Another category in there is how many passes went right off a big man's hand and out of bounds or into the hands of a defender. Happened way too much.

Iggy1979 · Unread post by **Iggy1979** » 10 years ago

McRam, while that is true (Seawright led the team in turnovers one year) in this scrimmage it was the guards who turned the ball over

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 10 years ago

http://www.coxhub.com/articles/why-coll ... -important

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 10 years ago

We are sure determined to make sure #5 isn't true.

adam914 · Unread post by **adam914** » 10 years ago

#2 and #3 are just further proof that these are extremely important for the coaches and players, and mean absolutely nothing to fans trying to determine anything from the outcomes.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 10 years ago

adam914 wrote:#2 and #3 are just further proof that these are extremely important for the coaches and players, and mean absolutely nothing to fans trying to determine anything from the outcomes.

^ also flying up my rankings

McRam · Unread post by **McRam** » 10 years ago

Iggy1979 wrote:McRam, while that is true (Seawright led the team in turnovers one year) in this scrimmage it was the guards who turned the ball over

ugh!

Blue Man · Unread post by **Blue Man** » 10 years ago

I am looking forward to Friday night when everyone can talk about what was SEEN in a "real game" (against a D2 opponent).

Then at least people will be able to lose their collective minds over something that actually resembled a basketball game, rather than a fantasy story told by word of mouth, under circumstances no one is aware of, in situations no one can understand, that counted for nothing in the minds of the players actually playing it.

Iggy1979 · Unread post by **Iggy1979** » 10 years ago

Looking forward to Blue Man losing his mind after a poor performance