Big East - Basketball Only Schools Leaving

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 11 years ago

I'm not trying to justify that PC is this secret juggernaut ...

The point was "Why would Xavier want to go play with that junk," and the answer is because "that junk" brings those schools at least triple the money and better competition. That is all. They could keep going to those elementary school gyms you call part of your conference opponents, or play against teams whose bball programs are not of high interest or they can go be part of a conference where basketball is first everywhere. PC being a (insert adjective here) program would still beat half the A-10 on any given day on any given year. So if PC is the bottom of the Big East, what does that say about the bottom half of the A-10?

urirx · Unread post by **urirx** » 11 years ago

PC doesn't have a secret agenda. they got there first. unless X and GT decide to create a league from scratch, PC is going to play in the more prestigious conference, no matter what history says, because their friends are bigger then our friends.

hrstrat57 · Unread post by **hrstrat57** » 11 years ago

Why would Butler throw in with a Catholic league....SLU, Xavier etc. sure but Butler? In a catholic league? Makes no sense to me. Help me understand.....

Brutus · Unread post by **Brutus** » 11 years ago

hrstrat57 wrote:Why would Butler throw in with a Catholic league....SLU, Xavier etc. sure but Butler? In a catholic league? Makes no sense to me. Help me understand.....

The media is calling it a "catholic league" not any of the 7 have said such a thing. The deciding factor, like anything else, will be the extra money the new conference can offer over the A10.

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

so what happens first....do the schools join the new conference blind, and then see what kind of deal they get, or do they wait and see what kind of deal the conference gets and then join? But without additional teams, the contract would probably not be that great.

This new conference will basically be the A10 minus the crappy 3-4 schools. So why would that conference get 3X the TV contract? Are there that many compelling match ups in that league? Someone else showed the attendance figures for the games against other C7 schools and they drew about half as much as they did against the old BE FB schools. Even their owns fans aren't interested in those games, why would they command so much for TV rights? I really am not trying to state why the A10 should stay together, I am just wondering if, when all is said and done, they will really get that much revenue per team. If they do, then we had some crappy negotiators.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

If these schools think they're going to get anything close to the contracts the old Big East of any of the BCS conferences are getting,
they must be doing peyote.
Mainly a bunch of small schools that nobody outside their fanbases care about.
The football schools will put them about where the A-10 has been. A game here and there on odd nights.

Rhody74 · Unread post by **Rhody74** » 11 years ago

RIFan wrote:so what happens first....do the schools join the new conference blind, and then see what kind of deal they get, or do they wait and see what kind of deal the conference gets and then join? But without additional teams, the contract would probably not be that great.

This new conference will basically be the A10 minus the crappy 3-4 schools. So why would that conference get 3X the TV contract? Are there that many compelling match ups in that league? Someone else showed the attendance figures for the games against other C7 schools and they drew about half as much as they did against the old BE FB schools. Even their owns fans aren't interested in those games, why would they command so much for TV rights? I really am not trying to state why the A10 should stay together, I am just wondering if, when all is said and done, they will really get that much revenue per team. If they do, then we had some crappy negotiators.

To paraphrase Rick Pitino, Syracuse isn't coming through that door. UConn isn't coming through that door. Pitt isn't coming through that door. ....

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

I agree, they now become the A10. Thus, their contract should be about the same. They are now the best non-BCS league (in theory). Their recruiting will now take a hit since they will not be on TV as much and they will not be playing any Big Time national teams in conference. They will have to sell themselves not the conference, just like the rest of us.

Unread post by **SGreenwell** » 11 years ago

I think the defecting seven, plus Xavier and Butler, that's still a tough sell for a great TV contract. Would it fetch more than the A-10's contract? Sure, but the A-10 contract is something people on this board, in all of its various formulations, have been complaining about since 2003. I also think that best case scenario, it's a modest to good improvement for X, Butler and Dayton, but as time goes on and the issue drags - if the realignment gets brought into court in some fashion, for example - then the "brand" gets devalued.

Or, if you want to get very "what have you done for me lately?" - Georgetown is the only team of the seven ranked right now, at No. 15. Marquette got eight votes in the latest poll. The other five got nothing. Last year, Georgetown finished the year ranked No. 14, and Marquette was No. 9, with no one else in the year-end Top 25 poll. At the end of 2010-11, Georgetown was ranked No. 22, St. John's No. 18 and Villanova received votes. Georgetown is obviously a good program year in and year out, as are Butler and Xavier if they're added. But it strikes me as lacking a top-heavy "talent" team, like a Kentucky or Duke or UNC, to anchor it.

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

I agree. But Butler and X have been successful as the underdog. G'town has had all the advantages in the world-same with all the C7 teams. I am expecting a drop off for all of them, as they get used to not being in a power conference. In a way, that is why they need Butler and X, for them it improves (in theory) their situation so they should continue to do well, while the others get used to this shock to their system and adapt to doing more with less.

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 11 years ago

Personally, Id be shocked if the new conference got anything more than 1.2 million. Based on what I have heard that is reasonable. But it's the crazy guys like Pete Thamel of SI who have the real outrageous estimates saying $1.5 million and even $2 million are possible annually per team. I'm hoping for that as a Friar fan, but I'd honestly be shocked by that.

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

even 1.2 is about 3x what the A10 get's...am I right? Is this new league going to be 3x better than the current A10. That would mean it gets 9-12 NCAA bids every year!

Brutus · Unread post by **Brutus** » 11 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:If these schools think they're going to get anything close to the contracts the old Big East of any of the BCS conferences are getting,
they must be doing peyote.
Mainly a bunch of small schools that nobody outside their fanbases care about.
The football schools will put them about where the A-10 has been. A game here and there on odd nights.

Rod, Seth Davis said just the opposite of what you said. He thinks the BE7 can get at least as much as they received in the Big East, and he also said he thinks it's great for college basketball that these schools plus the add ons would form another "POWER" conference.

So who should I believe Seth Davis or "I have an agenda" Rod?

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

interesting...power conference. The only way it becomes a power conference is if the TV execs want to make it one. Now if that is their agenda then it will happen. They control air-time and money...if they want to anoint this new league a power conference and give it air time and lots of TV money, then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

But if they look at it and see a bunch of small to mid sized private schools without BCS football and the 100,000's-millions of fans and alumni that the large schools have, and give them a TV deal that they really deserve then it won't.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 11 years ago

go away assclown

there is no way it can go up, that would defy logic and even basic economics

the product got worse, the audience will get smaller, the value will reflect that

syracuse vs uconn/pitt/louisville is much more valuable from a media perspective than gtown vs xavier.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Well, if Seth Davis (who the hell is he, and ESPN hack?) said it, then it must be true.
Let's see, you eliminate Syracuse, UConn, Pitt, West Virginia, and Louisville from those who signed the existing TV contract and you come here and think we're all so damned dumb, that we're going to believe the all knowing Seth Davis and Brutus The Troll, that
this new league of national yawners, is going to get more money?
HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

Brutus · Unread post by **Brutus** » 11 years ago

bigappleram wrote:go away assclown

there is no way it can go up, that would defy logic and even basic economics

the product got worse, the audience will get smaller, the value will reflect that

syracuse vs uconn/pitt/louisville is much more valuable from a media perspective than gtown vs xavier.

Wow assclown? How old are you BAR?

Look 5 years ago there were rumors in the media that what is now happening, the breakup of the Big East, could happen. I remember reading the URI board and the URI fans here were elated that PC was dead, and they wouldn't have a decent conference to play in all because of your hatred for PC. Well anyone with half a brain would have known that if the Big East were ever to breakup, then the bball schools would stick together and then add teams with a few coming from the A10. Well you all got what you wished for but it's not turning out like you all planned. PC is going to end up in a pretty solid conference while URI's conference is going to become significantly weaker. Not what you all expected. You all should have prayed the Big East would stand pat so that URI would still be in a pretty good conference. Now that's not going to happen.

BTW BAR, officials at Dayton are praying they get a call from the BE7, Butler and X have already given thier blessing to joining the BE7, St. Louis is contacting the BE7 to sell themselves and Creighton is ready to come aboard if they get the call. But remember I know nothing.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Who the hell cares about St. Louis?
They were Rick Majerus. Period. He's dead.
Ray Meyer is dead. The Big East is dead.
You act as if you're doing us a favor with your pearls of wisdom.
We don't care.
It's not in our control, so why worry about it?
You're just here to bust balls.
C-YA!

Rhody74 · Unread post by **Rhody74** » 11 years ago

I'm thinking the A10 should invite Georgetown, Marquette and Villanova to join the league. The others would do nothing to improve the A10.

Brutus · Unread post by **Brutus** » 11 years ago

Rod, add the A10 to your death list.

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

I do agree...I was not ever happy about the demise of the BE, as I was afraid what appears to be happening-would.

Brutus · Unread post by **Brutus** » 11 years ago

RIFan wrote:I do agree...I was not ever happy about the demise of the BE, as I was afraid what appears to be happening-would.

RIFan I agree with you. I could see this coming from a mile away. The A10 has always been a respectible conference and a conference I always felt URI could be very successful in. Now it will be considerably weakened when all the dominos have fallen. URI was in much better shape if the Big East had stayed intact, and the A10 had remained what they were. Especially with Hurley ready to have URI in the penthouse.

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 11 years ago

Per Pete Thamel of SI:

"There had been a perception the past few years that a basketball-only league would offer little financially in the open market. The schools in the Atlantic-10, for example, currently make less than $400,000 annually in television revenue.
The Big East basketball schools make about $1.6 million annually ($26 million divided among the 16 schools), but that number was tied to strong brand names like Syracuse, Louisville and Pittsburgh. Conversations with multiple consultants and television executives about the future of a 12-team Catholic conference have yielded a range of figures. The Big East schools could easily get their current financial number and likely get $2 million annually with a new deal. At the most optimistic ceiling, the teams could get $3 million per year, although that's considered Pollyannaish. The ironic part is that by the Big East leaving its exclusive television negotiating window with ESPN and CBS this fall, it essentially opened up the basketball schools to test the market. There are multiple interested television suitors in this more competitive environment and a number of strong potential markets -- Washington, Philadelphia, New York, Chicago."

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/colleg ... z2FAmzO6hq

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Except, nobody in Chicago has cared about Depaul since Meyer stopped coaching and the Bulls took over the city.
Nobody in NYC gives a crap about St. John's. It's like Boston. A pro town, Knicks, Nets, Rangers, Islanders.
Washington? More people watch Maryland play Duke and UNC than GTown playing Seton Hall or PC. It's really in ACC
country, between MD and Virgina.
So, that leaves Philly. A true college basketball town. But you won't have Temple and you won't have St. Joe's.
You market is based on a fading Villanova program.
Can you say, "House of Cards"?

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

This is obviously why I am not a TV exec. I just do not understand how a conference with this expected composition can fetch that much money. Didn't the A10 just due their contract? I am sincere in wanting to know why this possible conference would get 5-7x more for TV than the current A10- a conference that many experts expected to be a 4-6 bid league going forward? One that is in every market the new BE is(minus Chicago)! In fact it's in the Boston market too, with UMass. Please, someone explain to me...what could be the reason?

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

BECAUSE, THEY'RE SOOOOOOOO much smarter than anyone else!
Because PC is in that conference.
Because the Illuminati are behind having TV execs sign a giant contract for teams in
markets that don't care about them.
Don't you get it? We're all just to damned stupid to understand the
POWER and THE GLORY that this new conference encompasses!
John Wooden is going to ask God to send him back to earth, just so he can coach in this
otherworldly league!
IT'S THAT INCREDIBLE! EASILY the greatest conference in the history of the universe!

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

Is the A10 being penalized for the 2-4 crappy bottom teams...

Brutus · Unread post by **Brutus** » 11 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:BECAUSE, THEY'RE SOOOOOOOO much smarter than anyone else!
Because PC is in that conference.
Because the Illuminati are behind having TV execs sign a giant contract for teams in
markets that don't care about them.
Don't you get it? We're all just to damned stupid to understand the
POWER and THE GLORY that this new conference encompasses!
John Wooden is going to ask God to send him back to earth, just so he can coach in this
otherworldly league!
IT'S THAT INCREDIBLE! EASILY the greatest conference in the history of the universe!

Keep talking Rod, because I love it. When all is said and done everyone here will see how truly petty and foolish you really are. Got to love it.

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

what ever the new composition of the A10 is, it should not include LaSalle, Duquesne and Fordham. That would be addition by subtraction.

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

Brutus, you seem to enjoy poking Rod, but could you please take a stab at answering my question? I am not trying to stir the pot...If these are in fact the numbers, and you in fact have inside knowledge, I would appreciate your thoughts as to why they think it can get that much money.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

I'm petty because I'm not buying the bullshit you're selling?
Wow!
Why are you on this board? Just to act like a two year old?
"Oooh! I know something that youuuuu don't! Nya! Nya! Nya! You don't know who I am!
I KNOW THE UNKNOWN SOLDIER!!!"
ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rhody72 · Unread post by **Rhody72** » 11 years ago

The demise of the Big East is NOT good for the A10. The A10 can only get weaker and this is NOT good for URI. I've heard of no serious scenario where the A10 gets stronger. If you are not getting stronger then you are falling behind. I sense that those who are happy with the BE crumbling are people who dislike PC. I care about URI rising as a basketball program nationally than taking any joy in PC falling. Both PC and URI have stunk for several years and neither have much to offer a new conference. Sorry. but this is reality.

seanmc94 · Unread post by **seanmc94** » 11 years ago

RIFan wrote:I do agree...I was not ever happy about the demise of the BE, as I was afraid what appears to be happening-would.

That's the equivilant of the fat chuck from science class asking the captain of the fball team to prom

Shinze88 · Unread post by **Shinze88** » 11 years ago

I dont blame pc for being ecstatic about being part of the newest non bcs mid major conference, they can continue to contribute zero to the conference and take in the revenue from the tv contract... its a perfect situation for the friars.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Actually, with the talent the Friars will have the next couple of years, they will likely be a major factor in the new league, at least for a while.

They will be better than most of the other 6 teams leaving. Now, if Louisville, UConn, Syracuse, Pitt, etc. were to remain, then no.

Of course, UConn doesn't look like it's going anywhere for a while. They've got problems. Found out today why they weren't invited into the ACC. Thought all along that it was Duke that didn't want them. Wrong. It was BC, not Duke, that voted no to their inclusion.

As long as BC is in the ACC, UConn ain't going there. Guess there won't be too many Xmas cards exchanged between those two schools, eh?

ramfan85 · Unread post by **ramfan85** » 11 years ago

Calhoun and Boeheim(?) made some vicious comments about BC when they had the "nerve" to leave the BE. What goes around, comes around.

Brutus · Unread post by **Brutus** » 11 years ago

Shinze88 wrote:I dont blame pc for being ecstatic about being part of the newest non bcs mid major conference, they can continue to contribute zero to the conference and take in the revenue from the tv contract... its a perfect situation for the friars.

Shinze, I hope you enjoy the scraps that you wished for in what will become of the A10.

Rhode_Island_Red · Unread post by **Rhode_Island_Red** » 11 years ago

Let them go. As I've been saying for years there are two classes of schools--the BCS cartel and everyone else. The Sacred Seven may get a few dollars more going on their own, but that will only last a couple of years until the cartel membership settles. Once that happens, the cartel will vacuum up all the available television time and the Sacred Seven will be fighting for the same few scraps the rest of us are.

Unread post by **SGreenwell** » 11 years ago

Here's the thing about TV sports contracts - They're all insane right now. The TV rights for the Dodgers are estimated at anywhere from $4 billion to $8 billion for (IIRC) a 15 to 25 year period. I'm not sure if it's just a market correction from years and years of the product not being properly valued, or if networks are just overpaying for the pro leagues now. So, if you frame it that way, you might be able to talk me into the fact that maybe the "new" Big East will get a good contract because they'll be free agents in terms of a media contract at just the right time.

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

Maybe timing is everything as you say. Because by this logic...you lose your best teams and your conference is now worth more seems backwards. If this is in fact the new reality...then we should thank the new BE if this happens....we can probably renegotiate our contract for more than $1.5 per school easily.

I see Brutus has been here and not made an attempt to explain the reasoning behind these numbers.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

In order for the A10 to get a lot more $ for their schools via TV contracts, they've got to get leaner and stronger. They will need to add GOOD programs to replace the ones that will leave, and jettison the bottom few, that add nothing to the conference.

It's going to be tough, to vote out schools that have been members for a long time. But it HAS to be done.

You're not going to get 1.5 mil a year televising games at Fordham and the Bonnies, that's for sure.

Brutus · Unread post by **Brutus** » 11 years ago

RIFan wrote:Maybe timing is everything as you say. Because by this logic...you lose your best teams and your conference is now worth more seems backwards. If this is in fact the new reality...then we should thank the new BE if this happens....we can probably renegotiate our contract for more than $1.5 per school easily.

I see Brutus has been here and not made an attempt to explain the reasoning behind these numbers.

RIFan, go see what Seth Davis said about why the BE7 will make the same or more than they have been receiving.

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 11 years ago

Seth Davis is not an oracle and many here have as valid opinion on this subject as his. No matter what happens, the best BB players will continue to gravitate to the large, well financed BCS schools that play football. All other conferences will be below that level including the new Catholic conference, the A-10, and others. Their TV compensation packages will ultimately reflect that. Brutus should be happy with that as in that environment PC has a better chance of making the NCAA.

Brutus · Unread post by **Brutus** » 11 years ago

Obadiah wrote:Seth Davis is not an oracle and many here have as valid opinion on this subject as his. No matter what happens, the best BB players will continue to gravitate to the large, well financed BCS schools that play football. All other conferences will be below that level including the new Catholic conference, the A-10, and others. Their TV compensation packages will ultimately reflect that. Brutus should be happy with that as in that environment PC has a better chance of making the NCAA.

Obadiah, I have always loved reading your posts. Makes me realize how clueless you really are. Don't let your hatred for all things Providence College make you look like a fool.

BTW Seth Davis believes the new conference will be a "POWER" conference and will be great for college basketball.

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 11 years ago

My opinion of PC comes directly from all kinds of people in knowledgeable positions in RI.

And I have a news flash for you, don't call me out for hatred when you are the one hating. The evidence is clear on that. You don't see me on the PC board like you are here with many many posts. Why?? No matter what the answer is to that question, it will not be flattering to you as a person. Get lost, chump.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

So PC is officially leaving. Fr Shanley spoke to KMac in the projo:
http://digital.olivesoftware.com/Olive/ ... w=ZW50aXR5

Brutus · Unread post by **Brutus** » 11 years ago

Obadiah wrote:My opinion of PC comes directly from all kinds of people in knowledgeable positions in RI.

And I have a news flash for you, don't call me out for hatred when you are the one hating. The evidence is clear on that. You don't see me on the PC board like you are here with many many posts. Why?? No matter what the answer is to that question, it will not be flattering to you as a person. Get lost, chump.

Just trying to spread some knowledge my friend.

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 11 years ago

Me too - truth and knowledge all the way.

Sweep The Leg · Unread post by **Sweep The Leg** » 11 years ago

Brutus, are you Seth Davis? I'm not sure who was in the studio with Seth Davis yesterday, but he stated that if they were to poach the A-10, they'd be foolish not to invite Rhody and St. Joe's as they would bring in instant rivalries in URI/PC and Nova/St. Joe's.

Ramulous · Unread post by **Ramulous** » 11 years ago

Depending on the timetable for exodus.....it looks like it will be 2014-15 before the jump off of the new conference....it could happen sooner but there are questions about money left on the table, conference names, venues left to be negotiated and that could take 27 months to resolve....we are talking big money issues in the defection of the C7.

The money is the issue driving the whole conference realignment crisis...I doubt these C7 want to leave 5 or 6 Million$ on the table and leave today....

If that is the case.....we have two more seasons with X, Butler, and any other schools who will leave to join with the C7..two more seasons of getting their shares of NCAA shares....two more seasons for the bottom schools of the A-10 to bring their programs up...two more seasons with much higher RPI's for the remaining schools....two more seasons of 5,6,7 bids each year to the NCAA's for A-10 teams....two more seasons to show that mid-majors are mid-majors...

...and as Red has said, and I also.....if you don't have Big Time BCS football you are a mid-major...I don't care what conference you are in....

There will be 4 major conferences and the rest are mid-majors.