ESPNU A-10 Update

CT Rhody · Unread post by **CT Rhody** » 11 years ago

Watching the St Joe's game on ESPNU and the halftime show was all about the BE 7. ESPN (Andy Katz) that forming their own league would be a legal mess so the most likely scenerio has those seven schools joining the A-10.

Interesting comment was Dino Gaudo (X Wake Forest Coach) said he is hearing from his sources the same thing as Andy Katz that the seven teams going to the A-10 is the most likely scenerio but he is hearing these school would want the bottom teams eleminated from the A-10 so it is a 16 team league. So that would be 5 teams cut and the one benchmark he mentioned is that these teams have been playing in all these big arena's and he mentioned Fordham's and Lasalle's gym's won't cut it. Who thought that the Ryan Center might be our only saving grace at the moment if all of this reporting is accurate. What 5 teams would go besides those two based on their facilities? I think 3 might be a more realistic number but I'm just stating what Dino said during the halftime show.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

Would be awesome!! A great way to add better hoops-focused teams and drop the cruft of the league... hopefully with Rhody making the cut due to Hurley and the Ryan Center.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Makes sense to have the BE 7 join the A10, and eliminate the bottom 3 or 5 teams, making it a 16 or 18 team league.

Fordham, LaSalle and StBonnies would go, along with possibly GW and Duquesne. The first 3 have rat holes for gyms, and the other two have seating capacities less than 6000 I think.

Imagine if JB was still here. Ryan Center or not, we might have been in deep trouble.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Wonder what Sean thinks of all this?

PC and URI in the same league could happen. I'm sure he thought that would never happen.

I think it would be awesome. Then Cooley could stuff a sock in it.

seanmc94 · Unread post by **seanmc94** » 11 years ago

I do t think it will happen; 21 is too many.

Cooley would just kick your ass twice a year.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Sean, on the first point you are correct.

On the second, it will be fun watching him try!

College hoops in RI is due for a renaissance. This [PC and URI in the same league] would only raise it another level. One thing's for sure, since Hurley was hired, both schools are going after the same level of recruit for the first time.

The overall talent level will be roughly equal. Then we'll find out who the better coach is.

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

I would love a merger as it would solidify our situation for the foreseeable future. On a side note, How interesting would it be to see how URI and PC fare in the same league. I'm not sure their fans would know how to act without BE membership, and all of a sudden being on a level playing field with us.

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 11 years ago

RIFan wrote:I would love a merger as it would solidify our situation for the foreseeable future. On a side note, How interesting would it be to see how URI and PC fare in the same league. I'm not sure their fans would know how to act without BE membership, and all of a sudden being on a level playing field with us.

Oh My!! Somewhere Dave Gavitt is weeping...

ElmCityRhody · Unread post by **ElmCityRhody** » 11 years ago

PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE!

ElmCityRhody · Unread post by **ElmCityRhody** » 11 years ago

Could you imagine all these great teams coming to the Ryan center ?!?

WoW!

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

Could be Thorr's second huge test coming up. This is one could be as big as it gets.

URI96 · Unread post by **URI96** » 11 years ago

I sort of like the mega conference idea versus dumping the bottom feeders. Means there is no way we get screwed in the end

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

If Hurley's recruiting is intense, wait until this happens, if it does.

Whole new ball game. The new A10 would turn into something akin to the old BE.

Six to 8 bids a year?

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

A mega 20 team conference would be wild, but I don't see it.

The bottom feeders in the A10 will be the hangup.

Not just the BE 7, but TV isn't going to want to show games from places like Rose Hill Gym. Way too small time.

With success, URI might even need to think about increasing the Ryan's capacity down the road.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Another thing:

URI will really have to go "all in" as in improving their BB facilities to be on par with the bigger programs that will become part of the league.

That includes the coaching staff's compensation packages.

Forget football. If this is all about BB, spend the money needed to be the BEST they can be in BB.

An A10/BE hybrid league will demand total committment going forward. Most of the other programs will not have football in any form. URI will simply not be able to afford both.

CT Rhody · Unread post by **CT Rhody** » 11 years ago

If the A-10 does drop lets say three bottom feeders (I'm thinking Fordham, Lasalle, and St Bonnies), I would personally love to see them grab George Mason and Creighton to truly be a great league but I know that is just getting greedy.

I honestly can see some of these Big East teams just move from the bottom of the Big East to the bottom of the redesigned A-10 conference. Teams like PC, Seton Hall, & Depaul only come close to sell outs when a Uconn or Sryacuse come visit and being in a BCS conference allowed them to recuit at that level. I know the Big East fans think that they would be seven of the elite teams in the new conference but reality says something else.

We shall see how this all turns out but its far from a done deal obviously and things might change 50 more times before anythings official.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

The Ryan can add few thousand by blowing out the corner where it's attached to Tootell.
This could get capacity to 10,000 or so.
There's also alot of space between the baseline and the stands. You could put seats like the ones in
the Dunk, behind both baskets.
Most new construction is made with a view to building up and/ or out.

Native · Unread post by **Native** » 11 years ago

In the following link (which has both text and video), Andy Katz discusses the meeting between Big East commissioner Mike Aresco and the Big East's seven Catholic, non-FBS schools: Future Of Big East's Catholic Schools

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Not a shock that this expanded A-10, is being roundly pooh poohed on the PC board.
One idiot said PC should join, only if URI is voted out.
Just mini-minded thinking.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

I can't think of many things I care less about than what the PC board is saying. Their world is starting to crumble around them; they're likely to say all kinds of crazy crap. (Although it isn't as if we didn't try to warn them and they responded to such acts of kindness by calling us delusional.)

Andrew · Unread post by **Andrew** » 11 years ago

Just playing devil's advocate: What if we're the outlier of the A-10 teams?

CT Rhody · Unread post by **CT Rhody** » 11 years ago

Andrew I was worried about that too but if the benchmark truly is going to be facilities aka your home arena, then I like our chances! This realignment is really boom or bust for URI since they wouldn't be one of the teams taken to a new catholic only league obviously.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

Andrew wrote:Just playing devil's advocate: What if we're the outlier of the A-10 teams?

Yeah, thats why I said earlier that this could be Thorr's biggest test. I would have guessed that the Hurley hire was going to be his defining moment at URI, but it could just be a warm-up compared to navigating this conference thing.

At the end of the day, though, it seems like most of the empirical factors would indicate that URI would be in the top 2/3 of the league - facilities, school size, history, etc. I think anyone in the lower 2/3 (i.e., anyone not Xavier, Dayton, Butler, VCU and MAYBE Richmond) would have to be at least a little nervous if they're going to boot five programs.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Fordham, St. Bonaventure, Duquesne, Lasalle, and GW.
None have a good post-joining A10 history, except GW.
GW plays in a Keaney like Smith Center. Duquesne has a nice new
arena. Lasalle has a brand new, but fairly small gym. Bonnies are too remote.
Fordham has been the last place team, almost since joining, and has substandard (but interesting)
playng facility.
We have a history, a nice arena, and are the only State school in the bunch I mentioned.
Where does St. Louis wind up?

daytonflyerfan · Unread post by **daytonflyerfan** » 11 years ago

If they are talking about merging the A10 and Big East and then dropping 5 of the A10 schools, then how about dropping Duquesne, Fordham, LaSalle, and St. Bonaventure. I think Charlotte is getting ready to leave for CUSA, so that makes 5.

You'd then have the BE-7 + the A10-9 for a 16 team league. Maybe add in Temple as #17 for basketball only. Let Temple's football team play in another conference. Also, maybe add in George Mason if you wanted to get to an even numbered 18 teams.

I feel bad for the 4 A10 teams being left out, but they've had a lot of time to improve their performance and facilities, and they just haven't done it.

I also feel bad for Duquesne coach Jim Ferry and Fordham coach Tom Pecora, they haven't been on the job very long, and they may get left out.

reef · Unread post by **reef** » 11 years ago

Great news I hope it happens

I want Fordham out of our league

EasyEdBrown · Unread post by **EasyEdBrown** » 11 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:The Ryan can add few thousand by blowing out the corner where it's attached to Tootell.
This could get capacity to 10,000 or so.
There's also alot of space between the baseline and the stands. You could put seats like the ones in
the Dunk, behind both baskets.
Most new construction is made with a view to building up and/ or out.

I actually don't think you can add seats on the baseline for egress reasons.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

daytonflyerfan wrote:If they are talking about merging the A10 and Big East and then dropping 5 of the A10 schools, then how about dropping Duquesne, Fordham, LaSalle, and St. Bonaventure. I think Charlotte is getting ready to leave for CUSA, so that makes 5.

You'd then have the BE-7 + the A10-9 for a 16 team league. Maybe add in Temple as #17 for basketball only. Let Temple's football team play in another conference. Also, maybe add in George Mason if you wanted to get to an even numbered 18 teams.

I feel bad for the 4 A10 teams being left out, but they've had a lot of time to improve their performance and facilities, and they just haven't done it.

I also feel bad for Duquesne coach Jim Ferry and Fordham coach Tom Pecora, they haven't been on the job very long, and they may get left out.

I believe Temple and Charlotte are already considered gone in these calculations. We have 16 this season - those two = 14 + BE 7 = 21 -5 = 16

ramfan85 · Unread post by **ramfan85** » 11 years ago

Why should we have to take all of the BE teams? I'd like to see us select the ones we want. We've already got a league. They're the ones looking for a home. Seems like they (BE) teams are calling the shots. It's like: I'll come over your house for dinner, just be sure your that your kids aren't there.
I'm also nervous about URI making the cut.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

I would be a lot more nervous, if JB was still the coach.

Of course, would we even care that much?

If they were to drop 3, no worries at all. Drop 5, and maybe a little, but I still think we would win out over GW and Duguesne. GW has a better recent history than we do, but overall they don't, and our facilities are considerably better.

Possibly there would be a compromise also. The A10 is calling the shots if the BE 7 want in, not the other way around.

I'm sure Thorr is watching this closely. There is going to be some serious hard feelings, if some schools are voted out, just so some others can get in. But in the end, the almighty dollar will rule the day.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

Rod, Duquesne doesn't have a new arena, but they did give it a little facelift last year. Also, LaSalle's Tom Gola Arena is just a box on top of a pool. High School feel to it. What do you mean by using words "nice" and "new" for these two venues?

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

Coaches change. I don't think that matters as much as institutional factors. The leverage the C7 schools have is coming together or not at all. If the A10 rebuffs them because they don't want SH, for example, and none of them join, then the A10 has to worry about them coming after its marquee schools. At the end of the day, as bad as SH, DePaul and PC have been, they're clearly more attractive to a league than Duquesne.

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 11 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:I would be a lot more nervous, if JB was still the coach.

Of course, would we even care that much?

If they were to drop 3, no worries at all. Drop 5, and maybe a little, but I still think we would win out over GW and Duguesne. GW has a better recent history than we do, but overall they don't, and our facilities are considerably better.

Possibly there would be a compromise also. The A10 is calling the shots if the BE 7 want in, not the other way around.

I'm sure Thorr is watching this closely. There is going to be some serious hard feelings, if some schools are voted out, just so some others can get in. But in the end, the almighty dollar will rule the day.

No way the A10 is calling the shots. The BE7 have the muscle and the ESPN relationship. If anyone is calling the shots, it will ESPN or whatever network ponies up the most dough when this goes down. Most likely scenario is what has been discussed, I think. BE7 plus 9 A10 teams. Rhody is right on the cusp. Good facilities but closer to the bottom than top when it comes to marginal TV revenue. There is going to be market overlap with multiple schools in DC, Philly, NYC. I'm just not sure if having two Rhode Island teams is palatable for the eventual decision makers.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Well, what ISN'T going to happen, will be the BE 7 throwing Rhody out, if they join the A10. Dave Gavitt isn't walking thru that door!

I still think there will be a compromise of some sort.

Keaney.Blue · Unread post by **Keaney.Blue** » 11 years ago

I'm nervous about this situation. Overlapping TV market with Providence could spell doom to us. Remember, the architects are worried about TV money more than anything. Facilities, tradition, and geography are secondary.

On top of that issue, URI will have to commit to numerous facilities upgrades to make the cut in this new conference. I hope we have the money.

daytonflyerfan · Unread post by **daytonflyerfan** » 11 years ago

TruePoint wrote:I believe Temple and Charlotte are already considered gone in these calculations. We have 16 this season - those two = 14 + BE 7 = 21 -5 = 16

Yes, I screwed up the math on that. 16-2-5=9+7=16

IMO, the weakest 4 A10 schools are Duquesne, Fordham, LaSalle, and St. Bonaventure. IMO, the 5th weakest would be one of GW, Rhody, SLU, or UMass. I guess I'd have to pick GW partially because Georgetown is already in DC, and GW's arena is somewhat small. Unfortunately, Rhody seems to be right on the edge of all of this. Rhody's proximity to Providence may be a problem.

I don't know, maybe St. Joseph's(because of proximity to Villanova)and Richmond(because of proximity to VCU)are in danger of being left out also. Heck, maybe Dayton(because of proximity to Xavier)is in danger of being left out too.

This whole thing is nerve racking. I wonder how much mistrust/nervousness there is out there among the leadership of all of these schools? I bet a lot of schools are very nervous.

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 11 years ago

Keaney.Blue wrote:On top of that issue, URI will have to commit to numerous facilities upgrades to make the cut in this new conference. I hope we have the money.

I don't get all the comments about facility upgrades. URI has a better on campus arena than every one of the Big East Catholics. The only facility Rhody lacks is a basketball only practice facility that a FEW of them have (namely SJU and Marquette).

It may be the Catholic basketball schools that have the bigger concerns with regards to facilities. With all the big name conference opponents vanishing off the schedule, can these schools continue to play most all their games in large off campus arenas? These schools are going to see a big drop in tv and ticket revenues. Does their existing financial model of renting these large arenas make sense? The only school where it may not matter is Marquette. Take a closer look at the attendance of the others (Georgetown, Seton Hall, St. John's, Depaul, PC) and one has to wonder. Perhaps a blended appraoch to game siting (most games on campus with only a few big games off campus) such as Villanova and St John's currently employ will be the approach for most.

My take is that URI's financial concern for a league with Big East cast offs would be more related to operating expenses (salaries, travel, recruiting budget, admin costs).

ramfan85 · Unread post by **ramfan85** » 11 years ago

There are a lot of variables here. Personally, I don't like ESPN dictating our conference. They haven't exactly been kind to the A10. We may have a great facility, but it hasn't been full in a long time (Thanks, Baron).
One thing I am certain of is that whoever is left out is screwed. If we're not in, I can't see the Hurleys staying.

BFC · Unread post by **BFC** » 11 years ago

TV markets are the biggest thing to ESPN, not arena size, it gives them leverage when they negotiate with cable providers. Duplicating the market is useless to them. PC wouldn't want to share the market either, it's just bad for business. Unfortunately, most of the power teams in the A-10 at this point are teams with little history or connections to URI. If the Big East 7 are truly united, I'm worried.

Brutus · Unread post by **Brutus** » 11 years ago

Never going to happen. Read what the Marquette AD said about the A10 yesterday.

XU to the new Big East.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

I think having two RI schools in the same league would help both teams in the RI market and make it one of the best CBB around. An arms race between PC and Rhody would capture the state's attention like neither team has been able to do individually in quite some time. Actually, I think pairing teams up for some built-in rivalries makes some sense. The most notable thing about the ACC is the UNC/Duke rivalry; hell, they have four teams in North Carolina. The A10 would have URI/PC, St. Joes/Nova, GW/GTown (not sure if those schools ever even play each other or not, but the potential is there), SH/St. John's, Richmond/VCU, Dayton/Xavier, DePaul/Marquette, and Butler/St. Louis.

Teams out would be UMass, Fordham, LaSalle, Duquesne and Bonnies. UMass is the only real question in that group, but depending on how things go with their football it may just work itself out. I wonder if Thorr has it in him to angle against UMass to save URI if he had to.

Brutus, it certainly isn't set in stone that this will happen, but that you're convinced it will "never" happen only proves that you're still living in a bubble and haven't accepted or don't yet grasp the new reality. One way or the other, the world you have lived in for the last 30 years is over.

BFC · Unread post by **BFC** » 11 years ago

UNC/Duke has a national audience, URI/PC does not. We're talking about it from a local fan experience perspective but that's not the perspective the decisions are going to be made from. Providence is a mid-size media market, it's not big enough to split and still be viewed as valuable. Do you really think ESPN or St. John's/Georgetown/Xavier for that matter are going to care about energizing the college basketball fans in RI?
PC wants to be the dominant sports attraction in this market, and they should (URI should too), PC is too small to compete long-term with the top programs otherwise.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

ATP, the Palumbo Center in Duquesne was built in 1988 and had a massive renovation in 2011, which to me, makes it
a new building.
Lasalle's gym is new. Period.
Oh, and Qunnipiac has a very nice arena, not that QU has to do with this discussion.
NICE! NICE! NICE! NICE!
NEW! NEW! NEW! NEW!
See I used those offensive words, again.
PPPPPPPPPPPLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

I think making college basketball more popular and energizing the audience would improve ratings for both teams. A casual fan is going to watch either team if they are playing similar opponents; fans either team are more likely to watch the other team play if there are implications for their team.

I understand that ultimately none of that may matter, and if the market is too small, its too small. But there aren't exactly bigger markets being pushed out, either. UMass isn't in the "Boston market" for all intents and purposes. They aren't even on TV here. Bonnies doesn't offer much, LaSalle is redundant, Duquesne is in a different market but has never really been good. Fordham is in a great market but they are completely irrelevant. I get that Duke/UNC is now a rivalry with national interest, but it hasn't been that way since the beginning of time. Besides, you could make the same argument about the market being large enough to handle two teams in a number of instances - namely Richmond.

Keaney.Blue · Unread post by **Keaney.Blue** » 11 years ago

It seems more likely to me that the 7 BE schools would pluck select A10 members and create a new conference. We'd be left out in that case.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

Maybe. That is certainly their first choice, but there doesn't seem to be a way for the C7 to extract themselves cleanly from the Big East at the moment. They don't have the votes to dissolve the league.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Plus massive exit fees, come into play with those wanting to leave the Big East.
Lots of Chicken Little talk here. THE SKY IS FALLING!

daytonflyerfan · Unread post by **daytonflyerfan** » 11 years ago

It appears that the BE exit fees are not going to be an issue. If the BE7 all exit together, there is a clause that says that they don't have to pay the exit fees.

http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=4202

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

The latest batshit crazy idea, is Gonazaga in the Big East for basketball!
Yeah, let's fly out to Spokane for a game!
I'm sure Mark Few would love going to Providence on a weekday.
Just grasping at straws.

BFC · Unread post by **BFC** » 11 years ago

In comparison to St. Bonaventure, Fordham, LaSalle, and Duquense, yes we look golden. UMass is in the Boston media market.
I just can't imagine the powers that be sitting at the table saying if we put URI and PC in the same conference, we can build a national audience for both schools. Based on what?
Truthfully, I don't know where URI or PC lies on the power list here but neither program's dream scenario includes the other one.