KeaneyBlue - The URI Basketball Forum

Am I missing something here or is our front court next year really going to be

Cyril
Layssard
A Berry
Tertsea

????????

Let's get into this year's conference play before we start talking about next year ...?

just asking - not much of a front court

2016-2017 or bust

You are missing Akele 6'8" Forward only a Sophomore.

There is also one more Scholarship to fill for next year.

I addition the offense is now 3 guards all the time, sometimes 4. Like that with most teams......playing 3-4 guards with the 3 point shot becoming a more frequent part of the game

I think people are dismissing Layssard and Tertsea based on their not being contributors immediately upon stepping foot on campus. I think that is a mistake.

We will find a JUCO or transfer to supplement.... no worries.

.......with those listed.....I think I need to make a last minute addition to my Santa list......a center......

I intentionally left out Akele

he is not a front court player

Yea Akele is just tall. Wish he was Delroy James.

Idk why that front court is considered bad? Haven't seen The 2 guys play but I think Langevine is out playing Hassan Martin's freshman year to this point. Not saying anything besides that.

I love Andre Berry and I have given up on waiting for the Berry brigade. His name will live on in my heart.

On paper it's looks bad only because we don't know about 2 of the bigs...but you could also say...if they are any good why aren't they playing now? Not sure how 2 guys who don't play their frosh year will be expected to be significant contributors next year. I can already hear the, give them time...rust, blah blah blah...

Do they expect Tertsea to be better than Layssard? If not, why are they wasting a year of eligibility, for him to sit on the bench?

RIFan wrote:...if they are any good why aren't they playing now? Not sure how 2 guys who don't play their frosh year will be expected to be significant contributors next year.

Because that's how college sports works.

Silly me, I thought the players that can help you win, play...I understand there is a numbers issue and that's why Tertsea is RS, but with injuries and foul problems there is playing time available for Berry or Layssard if good enough. We are not Duke, we don't have blue chip studs sitting on the bench because the guys in front of them are all american's.

I am having a hard time envisioning players who are not even bit role players jumping to significant roles the next season. For the teams sake I hope I am wrong. Nobody from last years class has made a big leap, and they played last year.

Right, every guy is not guaranteed to make a big jump, but guys do all the time. In college, guys are at an age where they can make big leaps year to year, whether it is because of physical maturity or skill development. That's especially true for big men. As far as this year's guys, I actually think Thompson has looked good when he's been able to get on the court, but obviously they aren't going to rely on him for a ton of minutes even when healthy because the backcourt is so crowded.

But that's the life cycle of college sports - guys come in and are behind most of the players they go against who are older and stronger, more experienced and more developed. Then those guys graduate and the young guys get older and stronger and more experienced and develop their games, and they become the guys that are hard for the incoming guys to compete against.

Let's get Austin Nichols
The ex Memphis guy who transferred to Virginia and then got dismissed from the team after two games...
But he's really good!

TruePoint wrote:Right, every guy is not guaranteed to make a big jump, but guys do all the time. In college, guys are at an age where they can make big leaps year to year, whether it is because of physical maturity or skill development. That's especially true for big men. As far as this year's guys, I actually think Thompson has looked good when he's been able to get on the court, but obviously they aren't going to rely on him for a ton of minutes even when healthy because the backcourt is so crowded.

But that's the life cycle of college sports - guys come in and are behind most of the players they go against who are older and stronger, more experienced and more developed. Then those guys graduate and the young guys get older and stronger and more experienced and develop their games, and they become the guys that are hard for the incoming guys to compete against.

Guys do make large jumps like that in college but I wouldn't say it's the norm except for guys who were highly rated recruits and had better players in front of them. The fact that Layssard has played only 9 minutes means the odds are most likely against him to make a significant jump. I think he can definitely be a decent role player and contribute to the team but like I said, the odds are not in our/his favor that he'll end up being as skilled as the average starting big man on an NCAA tournament team.

I'm thinking if we make the tournament this year we have a pretty good shot of landing a decent big man grad transfer. Pretty much guaranteed starting spot, we'd be coming off a tournament appearance and he could be a key part in possibly another tournament appearance. Only issue is I'm not sure how many big men out there will be available as grad transfers.

I think it's the exact opposite. Highly rated guys that aren't playing right away signifies a problem. Most guys need time to develop into D1 players. Your typical very good high school player isn't ready to be a contributing player on a good D1 team. This is especially true for big guys who, beyond the very elite recruits, are taken for their size and athleticism more than their skill because of the rarity of that size and athleticism among humans. A lot of them have to learn how to be good basketball players. If they had D1 size and athleticism and plus basketball skills, they'd be at North Carolina or Kansas, realistically.

I've pissed and moaned about next years front court.
My problem is, why isn't anyone but Langevine being developed?
Are Berry and Laysard are so deficient as players that the can't get
off the bench, even against lesser talented opponents?
Plus, that being the case, why were they recruited in the first place?
Laysard is rotting on the bench. He's played 9 minutes in garbage time
in their first two blowouts.
Instead of wasting his eligibility, since he's got less time than the
walk-on, RED SHIRT HIM!
Is Hurley so guard-centric that anyone over 6'7" doesn't interest him?
"OK, we recruited three bigs, so STFU!"
So, how about playing them? Hassan's absence is a great
opportunity to experiment, against the Holy Crosses and W&Ms of the world.
Nope!
Also, Akele isn't 6'8". He's hardly taller than EC.
Besides subbing for Iverson, what is his role?
OK shooter with nobody on him, doesn't ever put the
ball on the floor and drive.
Will he be force fed next year to be a starter, by default?
This four guard stuff is insane.
Watch the big boys and tell me which ones use four guards.
My guess is, we go into next season with Langevine and Akele,
with Berry, Tertsea and Laysard being bascically practice players.
Look at the list of 2018 players. Are there any centers or power forwards offered?
No, again.
Or, maybe we'll just play five guards, which is probably
a dream of Dan's.
Who knows?

OK, story time.....
PC had a kid who was kind of an under recruited forward.
They figured on red-shirting him.
PC was playing South Carolina, on a night when there
was a shortage of frontcourt players.
Tim Welsh put the player in. He'd not played a minute
and it was December.
The new guy dominated the game.
The player was Ryan Gomes, the rest is history.
Coaches can be wrong, even about their own players.

TruePoint wrote:I think it's the exact opposite. Highly rated guys that aren't playing right away signifies a problem. Most guys need time to develop into D1 players. Your typical very good high school player isn't ready to be a contributing player on a good D1 team. This is especially true for big guys who, beyond the very elite recruits, are taken for their size and athleticism more than their skill because of the rarity of that size and athleticism among humans. A lot of them have to learn how to be good basketball players. If they had D1 size and athleticism and plus basketball skills, they'd be at North Carolina or Kansas, realistically.

Honestly I was really only thinking of Cuse guys because that's my other team so I could be completely off. Off the top of my head both Michael Carter Williams and Dion Waiters didn't play much as freshman and both got drafted in the first round after they were sophomores. Also I think you see this more at schools like Cuse who are very good and will get decent recruits but they aren't a blue blood school who's getting a lot of one and dones.

I agree though that the main issue is most likely that Layssard needs to learn the game at this level and improve his basketball IQ. Although it's very tough to do that when sitting on the bench. That's also one of the tough things about not winning big against teams like Holy Cross or Brown. Those should be games where Layssard can get around 5 minutes to get some experience but because they're closer than they should be Hurley probably doesn't feel comfortable putting him in.

I'm not going to disagree with you that they should be finding ways to sneak Layssard onto the court for a few minutes here or there to accelerate his acclimation process (and as Rod is saying, see if maybe he shocks you). But I also don't think we should lose sight of the fact that only a very small portion of the basketball minutes these guys have every year is during games. There are plenty of opportunities for guys to work on things and get better.

Better hit the recruiting line for a quality big DH

In a game where Marin is not available and Iverson fouls out playing 20 minutes, berry gets 3 minutes. And save the match-up bull shit arguments! Here's a novel idea, put Berry in, use him in a way that stresses his strengths and create match-up problems for other teams.

......I realize the real big talented bigs go to the annual Top 10 powerhouse programs.....but if we are building, according to DH, to be a national program that sniffs around and in the Top 25, annual power in the A-10, etc; so with that emerging profile I expect by now the recruiting pipeline would have delivered a center type player that gives us that position player that is more immediately impactful than bench sitting.....no?.....tell me.....

I think a legit center that is capable of playing and contributing in a meaningful day 1 in college is a sure shot future NBA player, and I don't know if there are enough of those that URI is ever going to get them regularly. That's just my opinion, maybe I'm wrong.

You can do some serious damage with a good power forward.
See Kenny Green.
Shot blocking, rebounding and scoring.
Bonzie Colson was the center in those years.
Laysard was touted as us finally getting a true
stretch four.
So, is he or isn't he worthy of some playing time,
with a view towards next season?
Langevine seems to be groomed as a traditional center.
I'd love to see both play at the same time.

TruePoint wrote:I think a legit center that is capable of playing and contributing in a meaningful day 1 in college is a sure shot future NBA player, and I don't know if there are enough of those that URI is ever going to get them regularly. That's just my opinion, maybe I'm wrong.

Agreed.....up front, I do not at all follow the recruiting threads; however In the limited supply of "sure shot furture NBA player" type players, I am thinking there are center type players a skill level below that and not NBA lottery picks we can get with the developing profile of our program....especially because I view that role/position player is vital to continued success in the A-10.....

We have been involved with some pretty good bigs but haven't been able to get them. Guys like Tyrique Jones or Kevin Marfo would have looked good in Keaney Blue. We were close on them. We saw what Kyle Washington looks like when we played Cincinnati. We were close when he transferred from NC State. But close is not good enough. Any one of them would be playing decent minutes right now. Bigs play a very small role in our offense. I'm thinking that's a factor in why we can't land better ones. Obviously we're a guard oriented team. Could that be hurting our recruiting of bigs like Jones, Marfo and Washington?

Exactly! There are plenty of non elite schools with good centers.
So, even if the top 10 schools get the cream of the crop,
there are still plenty of players with skill, to go around.
Some schools, like Gonzaga and St. Mary's go the foreign player route.
Look at all the Euro bigs who go in the NBA draft every year.
As I said, plenty of schools think outside the box on bigs.
How close were were really with Washington?
He never visited here, and scratched us off early.
The fact that a guy like Hassan Martin gets limited touches,
would make a recruit think twice about how he'd be used here.
Other coaches would remind a kid about how guard-centric
Hurley is.
I was listening to Bilas saying, "Good things happen when
you go inside on offense."
We just pass around the perimeter, never looking to the post
for inside-outside offense.

Once Langevine develops a legit offensive game he is going to be an absolute force.

Rhody15 wrote:Once Langevine develops a legit offensive game he is going to be an absolute force.

I'm not sure that's going to happen. I definitely think he's going to be a good player here, but more as a shot blocker/rebounder guy. When he shoots the ball, even on layups, the ball comes off the palm of his hand rather than his fingertips. He'll have to get his points mostly on putbacks anyway. I don't see him ever having a mid-range game like Hass has developed over the years. Hass couldn't do much offensively as a freshman either, but you could see he at least had pretty good form and technique on his shot. Cyril has a much longer way to go in that area than Hass did.

Hassan has good hands. A must for any post player.
I don't think Langevine has good hands.
Seen dropped passes and rebounds.
It's a quality that can't be taught.
I agree 100% with Billyboy's assessment of Langevine,
so far.

I agree with the comments made about the recruiting of bigs here......

It's hard to get the good ones to come here if they aren't going to be utilized properly.....

I mean, it's hard to get them anyway at our level.

Marfo is getting minutes at GW, not a lot....11 minutes, 4 pts., 3 Reb a game. But he is being developed. He's 6'8", 240, a true PF. He certainly wasn't out of our reach. Tyrique Jones stats are similar at Xavier...11 minutes, 3 pts., 3 Reb. He was being recruited by Murray to come here and Murray convinced him to go to Xavier when Murray went there. Two misses on true PFs who both will be very good. Jones is 6'9", 240, another true PF.

Running Ram wrote:In a game where Marin is not available and Iverson fouls out playing 20 minutes, berry gets 3 minutes. And save the match-up bull shit arguments! Here's a novel idea, put Berry in, use him in a way that stresses his strengths and create match-up problems for other teams.

Just wondering...how would Berry create "match-up problems" ?? isn't this phrase usually applied to players that have a skill set not usually found in the position that they play?? For example say Lamar Odom, 6'10 with the ball handling skills of a guard ???

I'm assuming they mean that the player he'd be going against wouldn't be able to deal with his size/strength/weight, but he would have trouble dealing with their speed.

I feel bad for Andre actually as it appears he made a huge mistake coming here.

Was he recruited by any other local/NE D1 clubs like Bryant/UVM/HC etc?

A bit of a poach but curious.

I think half court sets could be more effective with a pair of soft hands on the block but DH doesn't want to roll that way. Until Martin comes back he seems content to toss the ball around the perimeter of the defense...especially if Iverson hits the pine with 2 fouls.

As long as we win tonight and make some corrections that DH wants it really doesn't matter. If Martin comes back healthy for league play we should have the pieces in place to roll to the mandatory 15-3 for an at large bid.

......thank you all for filling in those gaps of mine on the recent recruitment, results, updates etc of center type players.....what I take away from this is that as long as we remain "guard centric" and the DH style of play remains the same(limited touches for the inside game players etc) the interest of bigs(centers) coming here will be the same......I really hope the DH is not so blind to the value of center type players, that the only way we get one is that one of the few blue chippers out there really, really, really wants to come to URI.....honestly, I guess I incorrectly thought DH would open a pipeline of recruiting that a talented big, and maybe the grade B big would come here along with the other positions.....

Running Ram wrote:In a game where Marin is not available and Iverson fouls out playing 20 minutes, berry gets 3 minutes. And save the match-up bull shit arguments! Here's a novel idea, put Berry in, use him in a way that stresses his strengths and create match-up problems for other teams.

This.

If we don't make the tourney this year...his recruiting mojo is going to take a huge hit. Based on what I have seen out of the last 2 classes, it looks like it was already on the decline. He won't have a vision and grand plan to sell them anymore...just lack of results.

Billyboy78 wrote:We have been involved with some pretty good bigs but haven't been able to get them. Guys like Tyrique Jones or Kevin Marfo would have looked good in Keaney Blue. We were close on them. We saw what Kyle Washington looks like when we played Cincinnati. We were close when he transferred from NC State. But close is not good enough. Any one of them would be playing decent minutes right now. Bigs play a very small role in our offense. I'm thinking that's a factor in why we can't land better ones. Obviously we're a guard oriented team. Could that be hurting our recruiting of bigs like Jones, Marfo and Washington?

I looked up Marfo's stats at GW so far; He had one good game of 18 points and 9 rebounds but many with low stats. Will be interesting to watch his career - saw him live several times in AAU and he was a beast of a rebounder. Not a good shooter or FT shooter from what I saw.

I looked up the Top 25 Team Starting 5's for their most recent game to see how our URI 3 Guard Line Up compares to today's Top 25 Ranked world:

9 teams are like URI with 3 Guards and 2 Forwards - most common line up
7 teams have 3 Guards, 1 Forward and 1 Center
6 teams have 2 guards and 3 forwards
1 team has 4 guards and a forward
1 team has 4 guards and a center
1 team has 2 guards 1 forward and 2 centers

So 16 teams start 3 guards and 2 teams start 4 guards
9 teams start a Center with one team starting 2 centers
No team has the traditional 2 guard, 2 forward, 1 center line up

1 Villanova 3 G 2 F 0 C
2 UCLA 3 G 2 F 0 C
4 Baylor 3 G 2 F 0 C
5 Duke 3 G 2 F 0 C
6 Kentucky 3 G 2 F 0 C
20 Oregon 3 G 2 F 0 C
23 USC 3 G 2 F 0 C
24 Cincinnati 3 G 2 F 0 C
22 South Carolina 3 G 2 F 0 C

8 North Carolina 2 G 3 F 0 C
10 Louisville 2 G 3 F 0 C
11 West Virginia 2 G 3 F 0 C
13 Butler 2 G 3 F 0 C
14 Wisconsin 2 G 3 F 0 C
25 Notre Dame 2 G 3 F 0 C

7 Gonzaga 3 G 1F 1 C
9 Creighton 3 G 1F 1 C
12 Virginia 3 G 1F 1 C
15 Purdue 3 G 1F 1 C
16 Indiana 3 G 1F 1 C
18 Arizona 3 G 1F 1 C
21 Florida State 3 G 1F 1 C

17 Xavier 4 G 1 F 0 C

19 Saint Mary's 2G 1 F 2 C

3 Kansas 4 G 0 F 1C

.....I like that breakdown Ramster thanks.....

Conveniently not mentioned with Kansas, two "guards" are 6'8"
and another at 6'5".
I'm sure if I bothered to look, any other team playing 3 guards,
has some sizable "guards" playing.

it's just logical you need inside players..

cyril looks promising, but he will need a lot more

you can't survive on just an outside game

i would sit iverson and start cyril next to hassan

I wonder, is Laysard's conditioning a problem?
Wasn't he once listed at 285lbs.?

rodfromcranston wrote:Conveniently not mentioned with Kansas, two "guards" are 6'8"
and another at 6'5".
I'm sure if I bothered to look, any other team playing 3 guards,
has some sizable "guards" playing.

No, wrong, it is not "conveniently not mentioned" as if I am trying to have some conspiracy going here or inventing crap. Quite the opposite.
The descriptions of the Players positions are taken directly from the Game Line Ups themselves. The guards could be 7'6" for all I know. The forwards could be 6'1" for all I know. Just taken straight from the Line Ups.

Draw your own conclusions, it just data.

Go ahead and bother to look at the heights. I mentioned Akele as a forward, he is in the line up as a forward, he is 6'8" but then told he is EC's height. So I will look closer tonight when they stand beside one another. Then I'm told Akele is not a forward at all. I have no idea what he is based on what people are saying.

I'm not using opinion here , only what it says in the line ups themselves.

rod-

what do you think .. cyril starting w/ hassan ?

iverson would be a good 6th man

and too many outside shooters w/ iverson in that starting lineup

i am down on iverson

could help him w/ foul trouble tho if 6th man

akele is not a forward in my book

too much of an outside game and can't bang w/ the big guys

ramster wrote:

rodfromcranston wrote:Conveniently not mentioned with Kansas, two "guards" are 6'8"
and another at 6'5".
I'm sure if I bothered to look, any other team playing 3 guards,
has some sizable "guards" playing.

No, wrong, it is not "conveniently not mentioned" as if I am trying to have some conspiracy going here or inventing crap. Quite the opposite.
The descriptions of the Players positions are taken directly from the Game Line Ups themselves. The guards could be 7'6" for all I know. The forwards could be 6'1" for all I know. Just taken straight from the Line Ups.

Draw your own conclusions, it just data.

Go ahead and bother to look at the heights. I mentioned Akele as a forward, he is in the line up as a forward, he is 6'8" but then told he is EC's height. So I will look closer tonight when they stand beside one another. Then I'm told Akele is not a forward at all. I have no idea what he is based on what people are saying.

I'm not using opinion here , only what it says in the line ups themselves.

Kansas has also played games starting only 3 guards. They last played Davidson who they probably matched up better with four guards but when they played Duke they only started 3.

josephski wrote:

ramster wrote:

rodfromcranston wrote:Conveniently not mentioned with Kansas, two "guards" are 6'8"
and another at 6'5".
I'm sure if I bothered to look, any other team playing 3 guards,
has some sizable "guards" playing.

No, wrong, it is not "conveniently not mentioned" as if I am trying to have some conspiracy going here or inventing crap. Quite the opposite.
The descriptions of the Players positions are taken directly from the Game Line Ups themselves. The guards could be 7'6" for all I know. The forwards could be 6'1" for all I know. Just taken straight from the Line Ups.

Draw your own conclusions, it just data.

Go ahead and bother to look at the heights. I mentioned Akele as a forward, he is in the line up as a forward, he is 6'8" but then told he is EC's height. So I will look closer tonight when they stand beside one another. Then I'm told Akele is not a forward at all. I have no idea what he is based on what people are saying.

I'm not using opinion here , only what it says in the line ups themselves.

Kansas has also played games starting only 3 guards. They last played Davidson who they probably matched up better with four guards but when they played Duke they only started 3.

For sure there will be differences based on which of the dozen or so games they played, who was injured, who they are playing, who is playing well, who is not playing well.............................I only put down the last game each of the teams played. It also is based ONLY on what the team calls the players in their own Roster. My data does not include height, weight, hair color, eye color, tattoos, left handed, right handed, jumping ability, what class they are in, age, shooting ability, rebounding ability, shot blocking ability, defensive ability, steals, assists.....................

It's only for the starting line ups for the last game played for the Top 25 Ranked AP Teams and what position they are listed for in that game - straight from ESPN Box Scores for the game itself.

That's it. I didn't think of everything.

Many players are hybrids.
You can call them SG,SF, swingmen, whatever.
VCU's center is 6'6". He's a real center, though.
We were told Akele was a swingman, when he signed.
As I've said, I've yet to see him put the ball on the floor
and drive.
Good standstill shooter if he's clear. He has value as a role player.
Garrett and Terrell are traditional PG and SG respectively.
I always felt EC was more of a swingman.
He rebounds very well for his size.
ECR- I think Iverson could be a valuable 6th man.
Kenny Green was our 6th man in the Sweet 16 1988 team.
Everyone couldn't wait for him to get in the game.
His was a matter of his bad knees, though.
Iverson's foul problems are his bugaboo.
He is very talented, and may do better at the next level,
where ticky-tac fouls aren't called.
He's pretty productive per minutes played.