David Cox

[RhowdyRam02]

Cox will be back next year. (I give a 2% chance he's not.) It's just wishful thinking that he'll be shown the door after this season. As stated before, coaches are generally given 4 years to prove it...unless the program is in a colossal state of disrepair, NCAA violations, etc.

Sorry 10-13 and 7-9 in the A-10 doesn't qualify as colossal state of disrepair.

Jerry D's record qualifies.
Gene Cross at Toledo from 2008-10 qualifies. (Cross went 11–53 in 2 years...plus other baggage.)
Gordie Chiesa qualifies based a player mutiny.

I would say the massive amount of transfers qualifies as a player mutiny

[Jersey77]

Yeah, the feeling is mutual. We're 11th place and we're losing our best player. We're already rebuilding, so I'd prefer having a competent coach here to do it. It's time to ditch Cox

I guess you must have a competent coach in mind, your checkbook out, and also a list of recruits that are ready to sign on the dotted line, because we will be starting from scratch.

Roster building is very different now. If you fire a coach, you no longer have to scramble and sign high school kids in the late signing period. There will be tons of transfers available. The new coach would have to attract some transfers and be able to make them a cohesive unit. Cox was able to attract transfers, but was unable to make them a unit. It can be done more quickly than in the past. The 5 or 6 year thing you're talking about is wrong. 4 year players are mostly a thing of the past. You just have to do a better job of coaching the kids once you get them here.

There will always be a transfer market (even more so now) and you have the same # of kids leaving the high school and prep ranks so you need to try and find the right fit. This year because of the pandemic made it extra difficult to recruit, especially when the kids weren't able to visit or see them work them out. Once the coaches were able to sign them and get them here, practice time was very limited because of Covid.
So the coaches were at a huge disadvantage this year, especially us with a relatively new and young staff and so many new players.

[theblueram]

Totally agree. Four years to prove themselves in a non-Covid year to boot is usually the norm. We all know URI doesn't have a "break the glass for fire extinguisher" buyout fund that can be used at will. Cox gets next year and maybe even a couple more on a short leash extension if they improve over this year. I hope he can turn it around. Thorr and URI would have to get really lucky to get another Hurley level candidate though.

Huh? Improve over this year? We are in 11th place in the A10. I think I could roll a ball out and possibly get to 10th. This team needs to be in the top 4 next year or Cox is, well, you know. Also, we offered DH $2 million plus. The buyout fund for Cox is like $300K a year.

No way top 4. No way. But top half, I bet Cox gets extension.

If Cox gets an extension for finishing in 7th place next year, I will not renew my season tix.

[RhowdyRam02]

Cox will be back next year. (I give a 2% chance he's not.) It's just wishful thinking that he'll be shown the door after this season. As stated before, coaches are generally given 4 years to prove it...unless the program is in a colossal state of disrepair, NCAA violations, etc.

Sorry 10-13 and 7-9 in the A-10 doesn't qualify as colossal state of disrepair.

Jerry D's record qualifies.
Gene Cross at Toledo from 2008-10 qualifies. (Cross went 11–53 in 2 years...plus other baggage.)
Gordie Chiesa qualifies based a player mutiny.

Totally agree. Four years to prove themselves in a non-Covid year to boot is usually the norm. We all know URI doesn't have a "break the glass for fire extinguisher" buyout fund that can be used at will. Cox gets next year and maybe even a couple more on a short leash extension if they improve over this year. I hope he can turn it around. Thorr and URI would have to get really lucky to get another Hurley level candidate though.

Extension? What the hell are we even talking about?

[RhowdyRam02]

I guess you must have a competent coach in mind, your checkbook out, and also a list of recruits that are ready to sign on the dotted line, because we will be starting from scratch.

Roster building is very different now. If you fire a coach, you no longer have to scramble and sign high school kids in the late signing period. There will be tons of transfers available. The new coach would have to attract some transfers and be able to make them a cohesive unit. Cox was able to attract transfers, but was unable to make them a unit. It can be done more quickly than in the past. The 5 or 6 year thing you're talking about is wrong. 4 year players are mostly a thing of the past. You just have to do a better job of coaching the kids once you get them here.

There will always be a transfer market (even more so now) and you have the same # of kids leaving the high school and prep ranks so you need to try and find the right fit. This year because of the pandemic made it extra difficult to recruit, especially when the kids weren't able to visit or see them work them out. Once the coaches were able to sign them and get them here, practice time was very limited because of Covid.
So the coaches were at a huge disadvantage this year, especially us with a relatively new and young staff and so many new players.

Fine, so we should have started off slowly and gotten better. Why are we getting worse instead of better? Because we're a poorly coached team

[theblueram]

Cox will be back next year. (I give a 2% chance he's not.) It's just wishful thinking that he'll be shown the door after this season. As stated before, coaches are generally given 4 years to prove it...unless the program is in a colossal state of disrepair, NCAA violations, etc.

Sorry 10-13 and 7-9 in the A-10 doesn't qualify as colossal state of disrepair.

Jerry D's record qualifies.
Gene Cross at Toledo from 2008-10 qualifies. (Cross went 11–53 in 2 years...plus other baggage.)
Gordie Chiesa qualifies based a player mutiny.

Totally agree. Four years to prove themselves in a non-Covid year to boot is usually the norm. We all know URI doesn't have a "break the glass for fire extinguisher" buyout fund that can be used at will. Cox gets next year and maybe even a couple more on a short leash extension if they improve over this year. I hope he can turn it around. Thorr and URI would have to get really lucky to get another Hurley level candidate though.

Extension? What the hell are we even talking about?

Heh, extension.

[RI_Bred]

Huh? Improve over this year? We are in 11th place in the A10. I think I could roll a ball out and possibly get to 10th. This team needs to be in the top 4 next year or Cox is, well, you know. Also, we offered DH $2 million plus. The buyout fund for Cox is like $300K a year.

No way top 4. No way. But top half, I bet Cox gets extension.

If Cox gets an extension for finishing in 7th place next year, I will not renew my season tix.

I agree. I'm just saying, current financial state at the university, covid madness and excuses, etc. I don't see them looking elsewhere if he finishes top half.

Unless Thorr can find the next "Hurley in the rough".

Let me be clear, I'm not advocating for a Cox extension. I'm just trying to be realistic as a long-time fan, like all of you. URI doesn't typically have the resources at hand to make drastic changes quickly. If Cox shows "improvement" next year, they will strongly consider extending him. My opinion.

[Jersey77]

Cox will be back next year. (I give a 2% chance he's not.) It's just wishful thinking that he'll be shown the door after this season. As stated before, coaches are generally given 4 years to prove it...unless the program is in a colossal state of disrepair, NCAA violations, etc.

Sorry 10-13 and 7-9 in the A-10 doesn't qualify as colossal state of disrepair.

Jerry D's record qualifies.
Gene Cross at Toledo from 2008-10 qualifies. (Cross went 11–53 in 2 years...plus other baggage.)
Gordie Chiesa qualifies based a player mutiny.

I would say the massive amount of transfers qualifies as a player mutiny

Not even close. There was one major University (which I choose not to name) where the players got together and met with the AD to complain about the coach. One of the players who was on that team is currently an NBA head coach.

This also isn't a Wichita State or Rutgers under Mike Rice situation

[theblueram]

No way top 4. No way. But top half, I bet Cox gets extension.

If Cox gets an extension for finishing in 7th place next year, I will not renew my season tix.

I agree. I'm just saying, current financial state at the university, covid madness and excuses, etc. I don't see them looking elsewhere if he finishes top half.

Unless Thorr can find the next "Hurley in the rough".

Let me be clear, I'm not advocating for a Cox extension. I'm just trying to be realistic as a long-time fan, like all of you. URI doesn't typically have the resources at hand to make drastic changes quickly. If Cox shows "improvement" next year, they will strongly consider extending him. My opinion.

URI was willing to pay DH over $2 million a year. So your resources point don't hold water. The alums (mainly Tom Ryan, who is my favorite human being for being such a supporter of this basketball program) disagree with you.

[Jersey77]

Roster building is very different now. If you fire a coach, you no longer have to scramble and sign high school kids in the late signing period. There will be tons of transfers available. The new coach would have to attract some transfers and be able to make them a cohesive unit. Cox was able to attract transfers, but was unable to make them a unit. It can be done more quickly than in the past. The 5 or 6 year thing you're talking about is wrong. 4 year players are mostly a thing of the past. You just have to do a better job of coaching the kids once you get them here.

There will always be a transfer market (even more so now) and you have the same # of kids leaving the high school and prep ranks so you need to try and find the right fit. This year because of the pandemic made it extra difficult to recruit, especially when the kids weren't able to visit or see them work them out. Once the coaches were able to sign them and get them here, practice time was very limited because of Covid.
So the coaches were at a huge disadvantage this year, especially us with a relatively new and young staff and so many new players.

Fine, so we should have started off slowly and gotten better. Why are we getting worse instead of better? Because we're a poorly coached team

Finally we agree on this, I said many times in several threads that this staff needs to up their game as much as the players.

[RI_Bred]

If Cox gets an extension for finishing in 7th place next year, I will not renew my season tix.

I agree. I'm just saying, current financial state at the university, covid madness and excuses, etc. I don't see them looking elsewhere if he finishes top half.

Unless Thorr can find the next "Hurley in the rough".

Let me be clear, I'm not advocating for a Cox extension. I'm just trying to be realistic as a long-time fan, like all of you. URI doesn't typically have the resources at hand to make drastic changes quickly. If Cox shows "improvement" next year, they will strongly consider extending him. My opinion.

URI was willing to pay DH over $2 million a year. So your resources point don't hold water. The alums (mainly Tom Ryan, who is my favorite human being for being such a supporter of this basketball program) disagree with you.

Apples and oranges comparison though. Unless Thorr and Ryan can find the next great upcoming coach to replace Cox, they will extend him with an improved season next year from this current one. Retaining a great coach that was coming off back to back NCAAs is a lot different money-wise than extending the current coach for likely the same sort of money he is making now. Not like they would offer a big (if any) salary raise, just a couple years extension I would think. Maybe I'm totally off. I just don't see radical changes after next year if Cox "improves"...

[eli#10]

Here is part of Cox's rationale for today's debacle in the ProJo article "there were a lot of unknowns here obviously. We did not know necessarily who was playing for them and we haven't seen them play a game in a month, so we had no idea what they were going to run". Huh?
He also used the word "lackluster" to describe how we played the first 8 minutes of the game. I know one way to stop that--play guys that want to be out there.

[DeanDome88]

Watched the game on DVR. Are we depositing unused timeouts into a bank?

Fatts is looking quicker again, maybe 95% healthy. Ish is a player, but not sure he is our point guard of the future. Coach Cox needs to figure things out. Coaching in the Atlantic 10 is no joke.

[JimSidd]

Cox will be back next year. (I give a 2% chance he's not.) It's just wishful thinking that he'll be shown the door after this season. As stated before, coaches are generally given 4 years to prove it...unless the program is in a colossal state of disrepair, NCAA violations, etc.

Sorry 10-13 and 7-9 in the A-10 doesn't qualify as colossal state of disrepair.

Jerry D's record qualifies.
Gene Cross at Toledo from 2008-10 qualifies. (Cross went 11–53 in 2 years...plus other baggage.)
Gordie Chiesa qualifies based a player mutiny.

I would say the massive amount of transfers qualifies as a player mutiny

Not even close. There was one major University (which I choose not to name) where the players got together and met with the AD to complain about the coach. One of the players who was on that team is currently an NBA head coach.

This also isn't a Wichita State or Rutgers under Mike Rice situation

Speaking of Wichita State, an amazing job by their long time assistant turned interim head coach Isaac Brown. Massive player turnover and Marshall resigns just prior to the season beginning and they’re in first place in the AAC, with an upset over number 6 Houston the other night. The AD still hasn’t given Brown the permanent job. Hard to believe he won’t get a multi year once the season ends.
Here’s an example of an assistant moving to the head job and making it work. I did read where they brought in long time head coach Billy Kennedy to help out. Maybe that’s where Thorr dropped the ball. Of course, then you get into the whole assistant coach salary pool discussion. I also realize that the John Carroll situation was in play at that time.

[reef]

Yeah Witchita is clearly on the bubble now

Just say no to an extension for David C worse comes to worse let him coach the contract out or most like sever ties at end of year 4 unless something strange happens like if we go to the big dance

[Blue Man]

Yeah Witchita is clearly on the bubble now

Just say no to an extension for David C worse comes to worse let him coach the contract out or most like sever ties at end of year 4 unless something strange happens like if we go to the big dance

If you don’t extend him this year you might as well fire him. You pretty much have to do one or the other.

[PlayMikeMotenMore]

Cox will be back next year. (I give a 2% chance he's not.) It's just wishful thinking that he'll be shown the door after this season. As stated before, coaches are generally given 4 years to prove it...unless the program is in a colossal state of disrepair, NCAA violations, etc.

Sorry 10-13 and 7-9 in the A-10 doesn't qualify as colossal state of disrepair.

Jerry D's record qualifies.
Gene Cross at Toledo from 2008-10 qualifies. (Cross went 11–53 in 2 years...plus other baggage.)
Gordie Chiesa qualifies based a player mutiny.

I would say the massive amount of transfers qualifies as a player mutiny

Not even close. There was one major University (which I choose not to name) where the players got together and met with the AD to complain about the coach. One of the players who was on that team is currently an NBA head coach.

This also isn't a Wichita State or Rutgers under Mike Rice situation

Jersey77 is correct...there has not been a player mutiny. Transfers are happening everywhere at record numbers. You've got to put this transfer thing in context. This is not a URI problem. Plus, the players transferring are not throwing Cox under the bus.

Wichita State and Rutgers with Mike Rice...those are player mutinies. URI is in the same boat as teams like: Missouri State (3 transfers after last season), Rice (3 transfers after last season), Mississippi State (4 transfers after last season), Purdue (2 starters), Pitt (2 starters), and Duquesne (lost count).

Cox will be back next year. Not all the players will be back...and like URI, you'll be hard-pressed to a find a team that returns its entire roster. This is the college basketball era in which we live.

[ramster]

Here is part of Cox's rationale for today's debacle in the ProJo article "there were a lot of unknowns here obviously. We did not know necessarily who was playing for them and we haven't seen them play a game in a month, so we had no idea what they were going to run". Huh?
He also used the word "lackluster" to describe how we played the first 8 minutes of the game. I know one way to stop that--play guys that want to be out there.

Comment was bizarre. GW doesn't play for 35 days and plays without 2 starters, Paar and Moyer (both 6'9") and then it sounds like we did not know how to prepare for GW because we didn't know who would be on the floor.
Sounds a bit like playing UMASS when Mitchell was not going to be playing but we didn't know it.

[RhowdyRam02]

I would say the massive amount of transfers qualifies as a player mutiny

Not even close. There was one major University (which I choose not to name) where the players got together and met with the AD to complain about the coach. One of the players who was on that team is currently an NBA head coach.

This also isn't a Wichita State or Rutgers under Mike Rice situation

Jersey77 is correct...there has not been a player mutiny. Transfers are happening everywhere at record numbers. You've got to put this transfer thing in context. This is not a URI problem. Plus, the players transferring are not throwing Cox under the bus.

Wichita State and Rutgers with Mike Rice...those are player mutinies. URI is in the same boat as teams like: Missouri State (3 transfers after last season), Rice (3 transfers after last season), Mississippi State (4 transfers after last season), Purdue (2 starters), Pitt (2 starters), and Duquesne (lost count).

Cox will be back next year. Not all the players will be back...and like URI, you'll be hard-pressed to a find a team that returns its entire roster. This is the college basketball era in which we live.

OK, let's put it in context then. Under Cox we've had double the national average in transfers. Double. After last off season people were positively comparing the amount of transfers to what was happening at Wichita State, before anyone knew what was going on there, saying if it can happen there than we're fine.

If it walks like a player mutiny and it talks like a player mutiny, it probably is a player mutiny

[RhowdyRam02]

Yeah Witchita is clearly on the bubble now

Just say no to an extension for David C worse comes to worse let him coach the contract out or most like sever ties at end of year 4 unless something strange happens like if we go to the big dance

If you don’t extend him this year you might as well fire him. You pretty much have to do one or the other.

I've frankly never believed in the whole a coach needs a certain amount of years on their contract, they all seem to be able to recruit just fine when they can break their contract immediately for what they perceive to be greener pastures but on the other end they need security to properly recruit? Sounds like spin and not a real problem. All that said, if it really is extend or fire, the choice is absolutely obvious, we can't do anything that increases Cox' buyout at this point in time

[rambone 78]

If Cox gets an extension for top half next year, I'm out.

It's bad enough that he will likely be here next season, but anything short of a MAJOR improvement he needs to go. I just don't see Cox becoming a good bench coach all of a sudden.

Yes, it will likely take major donors to step up again to have URI make a change...same as it took with Baron.

[PeteRI]

Looks like Dave already has his excuse ready for another L at Duquesne:

“It’s been tough,” Cox said. “It’s been tough for the league to schedule these games as well. But for us to have to go on the road here and then go back on the road again to play somewhere we’ve already played — that's tough sledding.” 

Nothing like showing confidence in yourself and your team.

[Rhody15]

Looks like Dave already has his excuse ready for another L at Duquesne:

“It’s been tough,” Cox said. “It’s been tough for the league to schedule these games as well. But for us to have to go on the road here and then go back on the road again to play somewhere we’ve already played — that's tough sledding.” 

Nothing like showing confidence in yourself and your team.

Funny thing is, they haven’t even played at Duquesne’s new arena.

[Rhode_Island_Red]

Not even close. There was one major University (which I choose not to name) where the players got together and met with the AD to complain about the coach. One of the players who was on that team is currently an NBA head coach.

Ooh! Ooh! I know! I know!

[rhodyruckus]

Cox will be back next year. (I give a 2% chance he's not.) It's just wishful thinking that he'll be shown the door after this season. As stated before, coaches are generally given 4 years to prove it...unless the program is in a colossal state of disrepair, NCAA violations, etc.

Sorry 10-13 and 7-9 in the A-10 doesn't qualify as colossal state of disrepair.

Jerry D's record qualifies.
Gene Cross at Toledo from 2008-10 qualifies. (Cross went 11–53 in 2 years...plus other baggage.)
Gordie Chiesa qualifies based a player mutiny.

Totally agree. Four years to prove themselves in a non-Covid year to boot is usually the norm. We all know URI doesn't have a "break the glass for fire extinguisher" buyout fund that can be used at will. Cox gets next year and maybe even a couple more on a short leash extension if they improve over this year. I hope he can turn it around. Thorr and URI would have to get really lucky to get another Hurley level candidate though.

Extension? What the hell are we even talking about?

I read this in Jim Mora Sr's incredulous voice while doing the "PLAYOFFS?!" press conference rant.

[Rhodymob05]

This is the most talented 10-13 team in URI history.

[PeteRI]

This is the most talented 10-13 team in URI history.

And I'm the most successful failure in my family.

[ramster]

Looks like Dave already has his excuse ready for another L at Duquesne:

“It’s been tough,” Cox said. “It’s been tough for the league to schedule these games as well. But for us to have to go on the road here and then go back on the road again to play somewhere we’ve already played — that's tough sledding.” 

Nothing like showing confidence in yourself and your team.

It's time to man up and stop with the Baron-like excuses
Green home games
Red away games

Dec 18 Davidson LOSS (58-67)
Dec 31 St Bonaventure WIN (63-57)
Jan 3 St Joseph's WIN OT (85-77)
Jan 6 @ Richmond LOSS (73-80)
Jan 9 @ VCU WIN (83-68)
Jan 13 @ UMASS LOSS OT (78-80)
Jan 16 George Mason WIN (80-60)
Jan 20 @ Duquesne LOSS (69-71)
Jan 24 George Washington Postponed
Jan 24 Fordham WON (52-42)
Jan 27 @ LaSalle WON (73-60)
Jan 30 @ Dayton LOSS (56-67)
Feb 3 VCU LOSS (62-63)
Feb 6 UMASS LOSS (63-75)
Feb 10 @ St Louis LOSS (60-67)
Feb 13 @ Davidson Postponed
Feb 16 Dayton WON (91-89)
Feb 21 @ George Washington LOSS (70-78)
Feb 27 @ Duquesne
Mar 2 @ St Joseph's Cancelled

[rjsuperfly66]

If it wasn't your team, the Cox keep/fire argument is actually rather interesting ....

The rule of thumb used to always be to give a coach 4 seasons to get his guys in the system, let them mature in the system, and see them develop. You could then assess trajectory when you saw a team of 13 of Coach X's guys play and what that looked like.

The reason I say this is interesting is because Cox wasn't brand new to the program -- He recruited many guys to this team as an assistant, and had familiarity with others as an assistant, so it's not like he came in brand new with no knowledge on these guys.

On the other hand, outside of the transfers out, it's not like the program has hit rock bottom, where had the team gone something like 6-20 this year, you could say it's clearly a sinking ship and get out now.

The inner-fan in me says if it were my guy, I'd probably want him out now, but the outsider perspective says he should probably get one more year to see if things click with a more normal offseason.

I just hope there isn't an impulse decision if multiple guys transfer in early April to do it then, that's the worst thing that could happen since by that point, most quality coaching prospects may have already moved around.

[bigappleram]

If it wasn't your team, the Cox keep/fire argument is actually rather interesting ....

The rule of thumb used to always be to give a coach 4 seasons to get his guys in the system, let them mature in the system, and see them develop. You could then assess trajectory when you saw a team of 13 of Coach X's guys play and what that looked like.

The reason I say this is interesting is because Cox wasn't brand new to the program -- He recruited many guys to this team as an assistant, and had familiarity with others as an assistant, so it's not like he came in brand new with no knowledge on these guys.

On the other hand, outside of the transfers out, it's not like the program has hit rock bottom, where had the team gone something like 6-20 this year, you could say it's clearly a sinking ship and get out now.

The inner-fan in me says if it were my guy, I'd probably want him out now, but the outsider perspective says he should probably get one more year to see if things click with a more normal offseason.

I just hope there isn't an impulse decision if multiple guys transfer in early April to do it then, that's the worst thing that could happen since by that point, most quality coaching prospects may have already moved around.

Think of this scenario, which feels entirely feasible.

Cox doesn’t get it done next year and is let go. Ed Cooley hires him as an associate HC. Book it.

[Jersey77]

As I previously said this offseason will be huge for Cox and we will have a better understanding of where this program is going, it may be his defining moment.
Who stays and who leaves, for any success he must keep his core players here: Ish, Walker, twins.
Curious to see how Makhi recovers from his knee surgery and what impact he will have.
What will the freshman bring to the table: Ileri, Tres, Samb
We will need to see drastic improvement from both Carey and AB.
How this staff will improve the team's chemistry, and have them operate as a team rather than individuals
Who will replace the energy and firepower of Fatts and scoring of Shep
Who will they bring in to fill in the open scholarship and gap at guard, maybe a slight chance Shep returns.
Most of all the staff needs to really up their game, look back at game film observe mistakes and make corrections going forward.
They just can't continue to make excuses, because ultimately wins/losses defines their success and accountability.

[Blue Man]

I would say the massive amount of transfers qualifies as a player mutiny

Not even close. There was one major University (which I choose not to name) where the players got together and met with the AD to complain about the coach. One of the players who was on that team is currently an NBA head coach.

This also isn't a Wichita State or Rutgers under Mike Rice situation

Jersey77 is correct...there has not been a player mutiny. Transfers are happening everywhere at record numbers. You've got to put this transfer thing in context. This is not a URI problem. Plus, the players transferring are not throwing Cox under the bus.

Wichita State and Rutgers with Mike Rice...those are player mutinies. URI is in the same boat as teams like: Missouri State (3 transfers after last season), Rice (3 transfers after last season), Mississippi State (4 transfers after last season), Purdue (2 starters), Pitt (2 starters), and Duquesne (lost count).

Cox will be back next year. Not all the players will be back...and like URI, you'll be hard-pressed to a find a team that returns its entire roster. This is the college basketball era in which we live.

Definitely not a "player mutiny" but I haven't seen any program not in the midst of a coaching change lose multiple starters and key pieces like we did.

When you look at the overall picture, DC has one player left from the famed class that we wanted to keep together. Now before someone puts this in a vacuum and tries to explain away all the individual transfers, it is indicative of one of these two things: DC is not a great recruiter like we all surmise and cannot identify players without character issues or players that can play at the A-10 level, OR he is not a good enough coach to keep talented guys. Or potentially both.

Yes transfers are happening at a higher rate than ever before, but URI isn't the type of "stepping stone" program for players that this happens to. It happens to Fordham's and lower level conferences, but URI and the "bar" that we set should ensure that players who start here will have enough exposure to compete at the highest level of the conference. That should ensure national exposure, late A10 tournament runs, and NCAA appearances.

David Cox is a phenomenal human being. Players love him. Of course they're not going to trash him after they leave. It doesn't mean they love playing for him though, or that they think he's a good enough coach to get them where they need to go. Actions speak louder than words.

The level of program Hurley left us with was a pre-eminent power in the A-10, poised to make that a constant reality.

In 3 short years we are trending backwards. We are currently 4th from the bottom in a 2-3 bid A-10 that doesn't even look that strong.

The last time we finished 4th from the bottom was Hurley's 2nd year of a post-nuclear rebuild. That was also in one of the strongest A10s we've ever had. 6 bids, 2 ranked teams, and an elite 8 finalist who wasn't ranked that season. Shaka. Archie.

Every Hurley season was an improvement conference-wise.

2nd from the bottom, 4th from the bottom, then a jump up to 2nd place in year 3. Year 4 was a .500 record in 7th place, but you lost your best 2 players to season ending injuries. Then 3rd place with an NCAA birth and win, then first place with an NCAA birth, win, and conference title.

With Cox? 3 years in and the best we can hope for of 10th place with a sub .500 record. On a team with a pre-season all-american candidate.

This is the third year. That means your system and your players should be taking hold and you should be able to make a reasonable prediction on how that system will work in the conference.

Even if you ignore the trend and the numbers, the eye test should tell you all you need to know. You could see the potential coming with Hurley's teams. As someone who was onboard from the jump, I at least had solid evidence that I could point to - player development of guys who were clearly not meant to be in the A-10. Defense. Intensity. Effort.

All I have heard from the 2-3 Cox freinds who post on this board are meaningless platitudes about how great a person he is so we should trust that he'll figure it out.

Yes, DC is a phenomenal guy. Absolutely someone you want interacting with young men to help turn them into better men. But that is only one part of coaching. There are plenty of great, positive role models in the world. But if you're going to be a head coach, you probably need to be good at the basketball stuff too.

DC is a phenomenal assistant. Great recruiter. Great "nice guy" if your HC is a whip cracker like Hurley.

The jump to the next chair is a very hard one, and some people can do it. Other people can't. It's not a "bad" thing, it just means that DC will be a great associate HC or assistant somewhere. I just don't think he's a head coach based on the on-court product, his lack of adjustments during the game, and his seemingly clueless responses in press conferences.

[steviep123]

If it wasn't your team, the Cox keep/fire argument is actually rather interesting ....

The rule of thumb used to always be to give a coach 4 seasons to get his guys in the system, let them mature in the system, and see them develop. You could then assess trajectory when you saw a team of 13 of Coach X's guys play and what that looked like.

The reason I say this is interesting is because Cox wasn't brand new to the program -- He recruited many guys to this team as an assistant, and had familiarity with others as an assistant, so it's not like he came in brand new with no knowledge on these guys.

On the other hand, outside of the transfers out, it's not like the program has hit rock bottom, where had the team gone something like 6-20 this year, you could say it's clearly a sinking ship and get out now.

The inner-fan in me says if it were my guy, I'd probably want him out now, but the outsider perspective says he should probably get one more year to see if things click with a more normal offseason.

I just hope there isn't an impulse decision if multiple guys transfer in early April to do it then, that's the worst thing that could happen since by that point, most quality coaching prospects may have already moved around.

The one thing I'll add to this that may or may not matter is we do have to remember that he was recruiting players for Hurley his previous four years to play for Hurley and Hurley's system. These may or may not have been the same players he would recruit for his own system, so maybe his system doesn't quite work because he doesn't yet have the right players for his system. Conversely, one could argue that the system of "point guard by committee" or whatever it is, needs a lot of work (to be kind), and at least with the current roster, should not have been considered (shaking my head at not having Jeff Dowtin running the point).

Now, going forward, the only player left after this season that he recruited for Hurley is Jermaine Harris. Everyone else is a David Cox recruit for a David Cox as head coach, so if he's still around, then next year is that make or break season.

[KingstonLane]

If it wasn't your team, the Cox keep/fire argument is actually rather interesting ....

The rule of thumb used to always be to give a coach 4 seasons to get his guys in the system, let them mature in the system, and see them develop. You could then assess trajectory when you saw a team of 13 of Coach X's guys play and what that looked like.

The reason I say this is interesting is because Cox wasn't brand new to the program -- He recruited many guys to this team as an assistant, and had familiarity with others as an assistant, so it's not like he came in brand new with no knowledge on these guys.

On the other hand, outside of the transfers out, it's not like the program has hit rock bottom, where had the team gone something like 6-20 this year, you could say it's clearly a sinking ship and get out now.

The inner-fan in me says if it were my guy, I'd probably want him out now, but the outsider perspective says he should probably get one more year to see if things click with a more normal offseason.

I just hope there isn't an impulse decision if multiple guys transfer in early April to do it then, that's the worst thing that could happen since by that point, most quality coaching prospects may have already moved around.

This is more or less my thoughts. Next year there are zero excuses after a full offseason and a roster full of “his guys”. I know it’s easier to jump off the sinking ship than try to keep it afloat. But my opinion is it’s worth the risk, worst case in both scenarios you still end up in the middle of the ocean without a boat. This one just takes longer, and at least there’s some sort of hope it could work out

[rjsuperfly66]

Think of this scenario, which feels entirely feasible.

Cox doesn’t get it done next year and is let go. Ed Cooley hires him as an associate HC. Book it.

Can you fire him tomorrow then? I'd be all on on DC to PC.

[rhodylaw]

Looks like Dave already has his excuse ready for another L at Duquesne:

“It’s been tough,” Cox said. “It’s been tough for the league to schedule these games as well. But for us to have to go on the road here and then go back on the road again to play somewhere we’ve already played — that's tough sledding.” 

Nothing like showing confidence in yourself and your team.

In fairness - the fact that we have not been on pause has forced more games on us than other teams. WE SHOULD HAVE WON THEM, but we have gotten a kind of raw deal by following protocols. Also, with the high NET ranking we are technically a good win for any team in league despite the abysmal record. It is like being the top-dog without actually being the top-dog. Teams are chasing that "good" win against us because it helps the metrics. Really odd. Again, should have won most of these games but Cox's comment is not completely in left field.

[rambone 78]

Blue Man, maybe that's part of the problem.

The "players love him" part.

The players loved Jerry D. too.

[RhowdyRam02]

Looks like Dave already has his excuse ready for another L at Duquesne:

“It’s been tough,” Cox said. “It’s been tough for the league to schedule these games as well. But for us to have to go on the road here and then go back on the road again to play somewhere we’ve already played — that's tough sledding.” 

Nothing like showing confidence in yourself and your team.

That is so tremendously weak. Next he'll pull out the Baron, the traffic was bad so we got there later than we wanted, excuse

[theblueram]

Looks like Dave already has his excuse ready for another L at Duquesne:

“It’s been tough,” Cox said. “It’s been tough for the league to schedule these games as well. But for us to have to go on the road here and then go back on the road again to play somewhere we’ve already played — that's tough sledding.” 

Nothing like showing confidence in yourself and your team.

That is so tremendously weak. Next he'll pull out the Baron, the traffic was bad so we got there later than we wanted, excuse

wasn't there a women's basketball excuse at some point as well?

[RhowdyRam02]

I don't remember a women's basketball excuse, but I do remember he also blamed a loss on the ball being underinflated

[ramster]

Looks like Dave already has his excuse ready for another L at Duquesne:

“It’s been tough,” Cox said. “It’s been tough for the league to schedule these games as well. But for us to have to go on the road here and then go back on the road again to play somewhere we’ve already played — that's tough sledding.” 

Nothing like showing confidence in yourself and your team.

That is so tremendously weak. Next he'll pull out the Baron, the traffic was bad so we got there later than we wanted, excuse

It’s horrendously weak. A Head Coach already making excuses for the game. What does this tell the players, the fans? Weak stuff.

[Blue Man]

Think of this scenario, which feels entirely feasible.

Cox doesn’t get it done next year and is let go. Ed Cooley hires him as an associate HC. Book it.

Can you fire him tomorrow then? I'd be all on on DC to PC.

I don't think he fixes Ed's shortcomings in the game management department. Or the scouting department.

[Blue Man]

Looks like Dave already has his excuse ready for another L at Duquesne:

“It’s been tough,” Cox said. “It’s been tough for the league to schedule these games as well. But for us to have to go on the road here and then go back on the road again to play somewhere we’ve already played — that's tough sledding.” 

Nothing like showing confidence in yourself and your team.

In fairness - the fact that we have not been on pause has forced more games on us than other teams. WE SHOULD HAVE WON THEM, but we have gotten a kind of raw deal by following protocols. Also, with the high NET ranking we are technically a good win for any team in league despite the abysmal record. It is like being the top-dog without actually being the top-dog. Teams are chasing that "good" win against us because it helps the metrics. Really odd. Again, should have won most of these games but Cox's comment is not completely in left field.

I don't look at this as a "raw deal" at all. Everyone keeps talking about the "needing time to gel" with this new roster.

We had more games and more practice time than 70% of the teams in the country. We never had a pause. Any games that got cancelled we found better ones. We're only going to wind up one game short of our pre-pandemic planned schedule because the A-10 tournament is being moved up a week.

Teams that have been on pause look like wrecks. With all the gellin' we've been doing, you'd expect a significantly better product than what we have. That's on the coach - philosophy, game prep, scouting, substitutions, adjustments, rotations, time out usage - it's. on. the. coach.

A loss to the #246 ranked team after a 35 day layoff on the road, in a box, with a fox, in a plane, on a train is flat out inexcusable.

[theblueram]

A loss to the #246 ranked team after a 35 day layoff on the road, in a box, with a fox, in a plane, on a train is flat out inexcusable.

This is it in a nutshell. End of Feb and losing to that team is Baron 2.0.

[Jersey77]

Looks like Dave already has his excuse ready for another L at Duquesne:

“It’s been tough,” Cox said. “It’s been tough for the league to schedule these games as well. But for us to have to go on the road here and then go back on the road again to play somewhere we’ve already played — that's tough sledding.” 

Nothing like showing confidence in yourself and your team.

In fairness - the fact that we have not been on pause has forced more games on us than other teams. WE SHOULD HAVE WON THEM, but we have gotten a kind of raw deal by following protocols. Also, with the high NET ranking we are technically a good win for any team in league despite the abysmal record. It is like being the top-dog without actually being the top-dog. Teams are chasing that "good" win against us because it helps the metrics. Really odd. Again, should have won most of these games but Cox's comment is not completely in left field.

I don't look at this as a "raw deal" at all. Everyone keeps talking about the "needing time to gel" with this new roster.

We had more games and more practice time than 70% of the teams in the country. We never had a pause. Any games that got cancelled we found better ones. We're only going to wind up one game short of our pre-pandemic planned schedule because the A-10 tournament is being moved up a week.

Teams that have been on pause look like wrecks. With all the gellin' we've been doing, you'd expect a significantly better product than what we have. That's on the coach - philosophy, game prep, scouting, substitutions, adjustments, rotations, time out usage - it's. on. the. coach.

A loss to the #246 ranked team after a 35 day layoff on the road, in a box, with a fox, in a plane, on a train is flat out inexcusable.

I do agree Blue Man the loss to GW was terrible and can't discount some of the other bad losses: BC, Davidson, UMass (twice), Duquesne, and even VCU at home by one. Many of those teams overcame Covid pauses, key injuries, players leaving, and still managed to beat us.

As I said this staff needs to stop making excuses and start winning. I have given Cox a longer leash than many here, but he needs to start figuring it out and turning things around. I just hope he proves the administration correct in his hire, sooner than later.

I really try hard not to get too worked up over this Covid season, but many of our games have been unwatchable at times.

[ramster]

A loss to the #246 ranked team after a 35 day layoff on the road, in a box, with a fox, in a plane, on a train is flat out inexcusable.

This is it in a nutshell. End of Feb and losing to that team is Baron 2.0.

Plus George Washington played without 2 starters both 6’9” one of whom averaged very close to a double double on the season.

[section(105)]

....and add the SJU win, even though it felt like a loss for many........for me that was the what the hell is going on with the basketball program moment for me........

[theblueram]

A loss to the #246 ranked team after a 35 day layoff on the road, in a box, with a fox, in a plane, on a train is flat out inexcusable.

This is it in a nutshell. End of Feb and losing to that team is Baron 2.0.

Plus George Washington played without 2 starters both 6’9” one of whom averaged very close to a double double on the season.

I think we played many games with missing starters.

[ramster]

....and add the SJU win, even though it felt like a loss for many........for me that was the what the hell is going on with the basketball program moment for me........

Ryan Daly did not play that game for St Joe - their best player. Also game when Fatts heaved up the 3 pointer, St Joe fans were livid that a foul was called.

[ramster]

This is it in a nutshell. End of Feb and losing to that team is Baron 2.0.

Plus George Washington played without 2 starters both 6’9” one of whom averaged very close to a double double on the season.

I think we played many games with missing starters.

St Bonaventure played without Jared Holmes
Ryan Daly didn’t play for St Joseph’s in the OT win
Boston College played without their best player
UMASS played without Tre Mitchell and Fernandes.