Da_Process_Survivor wrote:Blue Man wrote:gorhody89 wrote:Blue Man some good points about DH playing and actually beating ranked teams in fewer years (although Nebraska was a fraud).
However, we have all heard about how intense Hurley's practices are, what exactly do they practice?
Players off top of head under Baron i think showed significant growth as players over their time at URI...Will Martell, Seawright, Daniels, Delroy, Cothran, Hellenga, marquies, Bitee, Ulmer, D Robinson, Baron Jr. I am sure there are more but off top of my head those players as freshmen compared to the end of their career were very different players.
Now looking at Hurley's group (most much higher rated recruits), has anyone really drastically improved since they were a freshmen. Hassan Martin is a really nice player but he still has not developed a single post move other than his swim into the lane hook shot thing. (definitely improved his mid range jump shot)...EC absolutely gets a pass from his injury as he is definitely not fully there, but he was actually less efficient his soph year compared to fresh year.
I just don't see any drastic improvement from any of the players throughout their time here which to me is very frustrating and confusing when we all have heard about how amazing Hurley practices are.
I can tell you from being friends with a good chunk of those aforementioned players that Baron barely coached in practice. He would say unintelligible and contradictory things, and then the players would look to Skerry or another coach to figure out what to actually do.
I am not sure what you're saying with the list of those players...but you think their improvement was because of their coach? Cat Mobley came back to URI many times. He said Ben Eaves had the most raw talent on our roster - but what does Cat know? Jim Baron never played Eaves. Just like Jim Baron never played Chris Holm who was stuck behind Jon Clark. Chris Holm who transferred to UVM made a tournament and led the nation in rebounds after he left.
Cat also tried to work with Delroy on putting an arc on his shot...which he never did. Delroy had probably the flattest jumpshot I've ever seen. So great coaching by Baron there.
Cat came into the locker room to give a pump up speech going down the stretch during one of the late Feb runs. Baron would keep interrupting his inspiring speech to talk about the importance of school. I thought that was wild considering the APR mess we were left with.
Will Daniels was a gift of natural talent. The strongest finisher I've ever seen in my 25+ years of consciously watching URI basketball. Everytime he got into the lane he drew contact and scored. Baron sat him on the bench to lose an NIT game. Baron didn't develop SHIT about Will Daniels. That kid was NBA if he had a legitimate coach.
Jimmy Baron is the greatest shooter to ever play for URI. Possibly one of the greatest pure shooters in the NCAA. It's a god damn insult to his work ethic that you are giving his coach credit for his shooting. As far as player development...um...what player development? If he had a half competent coach he'd be in the NBA right now. Jimmy never learned to create his own shot off the dribble. He was so ineffective at it that he had to develop a range that extended to half court. Jimmy never learned to play defense. What was worse, is that Jimmy very rarely, if ever, had a screen set for him or his number called. It was literally give the ball to #20 and hope he drains it from 40 feet. Not sure about the coaching there.
Dustin Hellenga? Like Jim Baron's first recruit who averaged like 10 points and Baron kicked off the team after 2 years? Wow great example.
This whole line of thinking where Jim Baron did shit great and Dan sucks is what's making this board unreadable.
Jim Baron was the absolute worst. Period. If Jerry D had stayed longer it would have been him. At least Jerry sucked so bad that we could get him out quick. Baron was mediocre enough to allow for a contract extension to drag out the misery.
Dan Hurley is not the greatest coach in the world. He's also not worse than Jim Baron. So now all of a sudden the people who understand that are being painted as blind fanboys for pointing that out.
I would LOVE to be able to talk about the issues I have with Hurley's coaching - substitution patterns, game flow management, style of press/defense, transition offense...all of that. But all of the jamokes on here need to be kept honest about what is and isn't happening with this program.
Hurley > Baron. URI Basketball now > URI basketball 2001-2011. Those are facts and if you're denying that you're just being a miserable hater who will never be satisfied with this basketball program no matter who the coach is.
newsflash for you, in the only metric that counts, wins and results, Baron > Hurley.
you talk about games one hasnt gotten to? Baron actually beat PC, routinely...
you talk about player development? you mean like Daniels, Delroy, Cothran, Ulmer, Seawright, Martell, Parfait all being dramatically better players as seniors vs what they came in as?
who exactly has Dan developed? EC has flatlined, he has yet to take the next step from this freshman year.
you want to talk about what they inherited? why the hell are you acting like Baron was handing the keys to a Ferrari? He took over a program with sanctions, zero talent and in a free fall. btw, all those super facilities that Hurley has gotten, hasnt made a bit of difference in the talent recruited. Without Preston, his classes are average at best.
finally, you are off your rocker about Baron's scheduling. do yourself a favor and actually go look at the old schedules.
What results!? Everyone is bitching about Hurley not making the NCAA's? It's the middle of year 5. Jim Baron never made the NCAA's in 11...why does it seem like people on here are giving a pass to Baron on that fact and laying 11 years of Baron's ineptitude on top of Hurley's 1. Hurley's 1 year of underachieving that isn't finished yet.
Dan Hurley has been to the NIT. Jim Baron has been to the NIT. Dan Hurley took 1 NIT-caliber team to the NIT. Jim Baron took 5 NCAA-caliber teams to 5 NIT's. I thought we were thinking big? Isn't that what we're bitching about right now?
Wins and results are the only metric that counts? Holy shit if I didn't have a god damn job or social life and I sat on this board or dug up the old one I could find no less than 5000 posts that contain the words "cupcake schedule" and "20 win season" as a fucking punchline because of Baron. Anyone with a brain understands that 20 win seasons mean dick if you play everyone outside of the top 150.
So let me get this straight - for Hurley: run him out of town for no NCAA births in his first 5 years before the completion of his 5th year, while decrying that the only metric that matters is NCAA births. Jim Baron had none in almost 3 times as many attempts but somehow Baron > Hurley? That's your logic?
Games one hasn't gotten to. You are completely misunderstanding that. Pre-season tournaments. Games with national exposure, an RPI boost for the schedule, and a chance to play a great team. PC is on the schedule every year. Yes it is a black mark that Hurley is 0-5 against a rival like PC. If we're thinking big why isn't your goal beating someone better than a traditional middle to bottom of the Big East program? The PC of Hurley's era sure as SHIT isn't the PC Baron got to waltz against.
As for player development with the players you're listing...again, ignoring the revisionist styling of every post about Baron all of a sudden and pretending that those guys were astronomically better playing under Baron and not just their own development... I will repeat myself. That sure as shit wasn't Baron. That was Skerry.
I saw improvement from a whole host of Baron holdovers when Dan first got here. I've seen improvement on Garrett, until he got sick this year. EC got injured but it seems like he's coming back. EC's defense has also improved.
Hass martin has developed a shot from the elbow and a greatly expanded range from when he first got here, as well as his free throws. Hass' moves with his back to the basket and in the post were most definitely not here when he showed up.
As far as the keys to a Ferrari...um no, but still enough of a roster to fill out a bench and get to the NIT at least by year 2. Baron's holdovers were leading scorers and key pieces. Yes CFL may have done a "great" coaching job that year by getting those holdovers to play to their average...but by that same token aren't we just saying Baron is better than Jerry D? Yeah no shit. So is the basket of trash next to my feet.
Dan Hurley had to deal with a criminal hold over (who was a stud that got kicked off after the recruiting period and after Hurley signed). A malcontent holdover who Hurley had to cater to to fill a roster spot who never ended up playing. A lying asshole son of the former coach who committed to Hurley and waiting until after the recruiting period to reneg and follow his dad.
FIJI Baron got us closer to the NCAA's than Dan has? It took Baron 7 years to get to that point, and once again the season isn't over yet and with how inconsistent and talented this team is, you cannot say with absolute certainty that we don't win the A10 tournament.
To make matters worse for Dan...he couldn't even go after the recruits he wanted because the APR issues that Baron left him with were a handcuff for 2 years.
The super facilities Hurley's gotten? HE GOT THEM HIMSELF. They weren't given to him. Learfield buying the Ryan Center as a property? All the upgrades? Hurley. The weight room that has contributed to still the 2 highest touted HS recruits we've had since Odom, as well as the #1 recruiting class in the CAA this year? Hurley.
And as for me being off my rocker? Yeah you're god damn right I am because I'm king leonidas to an army of persian idiots who are misplacing their frustration on 17 years of bad basketball on a guy who isn't responsible for 1 full underachieving season yet.
As for Baron's schedule? Your reading comprehension sucks ass. I literally have posted on this same page and at least 4 other times in this thread about Baron's schedule. Considering all you can talk about is the OOC, since that is all the coach has control over, Jim Baron went SIX FUCKING YEARS without playing a ranked team. That's fucking ridiculous. He played a total of 7 OOC ranked opponents in 11 years. Dan Hurley put 8 on the schedule in 5. Oh yeah and in those OOC ranked games? Hurley actually won fucking 2 of them.
Like the most obvious criticism of Baron was always his scheduling. His soft ass scheduling was the reason we didn't dance.
Jesus just someone admit Hurley banged your wife or something so I can make sense of this argument. You are literally sitting here trying to defend the worst thing to happen to our basketball program to take it out on the guy who has at least given you a chance to be a relevant program again.
Again NO ONE on this board is saying Dan is the greatest X's and O's coach of all time, but you are high on fucking paint thinner if you can type "Baron > Hurley" without vomiting your soul out of your face.