Great news on Tom Ryan gift to URI

[Brian Forster]

There two aspects to State support for URI:
. BTW, very few states use voter approved bond issues for higher ed

Obadiah-brilliant !!= no vote,push a button,give them the money

[ramster]

There two aspects to State support for URI:
. BTW, very few states use voter approved bond issues for higher ed

Obadiah-brilliant !!= no vote,push a button,give them the money

But how do you know the button will get pushed? Who will push it?

How do we know whether it would be better, worse or no difference if voter approved bond issues were not utilized here?

Fact is that they are typically getting approved - so maybe that is better than not having the bond issues at all?

Would we have the new $175 million Engineering Complex were it not for Bond Issue Voter Approval? If not Voter Approval would the Engineering Compex be better in scope, worse in scope, non existent or still a dream?

[ramster]

Someone should check .... who gives more money to URI the state of R.I. or the Ryans?

I am laughing so hard I'm crying. I did a quick google and found this budget link: https://web.uri.edu/budget/files/URI-FY ... .12.18.pdf

Without combing through it right now.... the state gives URI ~6% of its operating budget from what I know. Tom and Cathy donate $53 million, if URI's operating budget is $530 million (I think it's got to be less than that?), then yes, Tom and Cathy just gave more to URI than the state does.

How does state support compare over the last 50 years? Better? Worse? The same?
Taylor, you are mixing up different subjects here, let me clarify using the current year budget as shown in the link you provided.

1. The unrestricted URI revenue budget is $443 million. URI's overall budget is much larger, closer to $700 million when you add in all the restricted revenue. For example, if a corporation gives URI $1 million to study the best design in the use of plastics for automotive instrument panels, this is considered restricted revenue which cannot be used for anything else. The $1 million does help to pay the salaries of the professor, grad assistants, travel, other expenses etc and, as such, it does provide relief to the unrestricted budget.

2. The State's contribution to URI this year is $80 million, or some 18% of the unrestricted budget. The state's also supports URI through payment of the debt service on bonds which amounts to another $23 million. Adding the two figures brings the total state contribution to $103 million, some 23% of the budget. This is important facet in comparing URI support to another schools. UMass, for example, pays their own debt service out of their total state appropriation.

3. The state appropriation is a yearly event and as you see in the link, URI is requesting the appropriation be increased to $90 million next year. The Ryan $35 million gift is generous, but it is not a yearly gift.

4. All factors considered the state support for higher ed and its flagship university lags behind most other states.

[Brian Forster]

Ramster-you are right. The engineering bldg. never would have happened if not the vote. That required intense lobbying by Ray Wright to the football boosters and they took it from there. All the state is doing is passing the bill to people pre-disposed to paying for it.
There are buttons being pushed-needle exchanges,drug addiction as a disability. Did these go to vote? How is this under achieving segment of the population more entitled than URI's engineering students or track athletes? Some have commented that is too bad that charismatic figures like Ray Wright and Fleming have to constantly ask for $$. The state has a responsibility to bring in revenue. Maybe Fleming and Wright should be in charge of this for the state. They can get the job done.

[RhowdyRam02]

Shouldn’t the new $175 million Engineering Complex be included as state support?
The Bike Path extension?
The new dorms by the football field?
Improvements to other buildings?
Engineering building was a humongous undertaking and will have. Significant impact on recruiting better Engineering Students and obtaining more research grants

No,that was a bond referendum. That would be like Keaney Blue members voting on what local bar to go to for a get together and wondering if there would be a bill. All the state did was push the bill for engineering bill onto the taxpayers.

True state support comes in one form=from the budget period.
Just push a button,give URI the $$. Instead of stupid entitlements like needle exchanges and drug addiction as a disability.
[/quote]

This is not accurate. Bond referendums are money the state takes out to make capital improvements. For the bond to even get on the ballot for voters to have a say the General Assembly and Governor have to allow it to happen. It's not the most efficient method, it's not the method most states use, but it is still absolutely state support.

[RhowdyRam02]

Ramster-you are right. The engineering bldg. never would have happened if not the vote. That required intense lobbying by Ray Wright to the football boosters and they took it from there.

To clarify, you're stating that the Dean of Engineering, when needing funding for a $150 million academic building consulted a group of people who haven't been able to get a $30 million project done, and the people who can't get the $30 million project done got the $150 million project accomplished?

[Brian Forster]

Rhowdy,did you mean not most efficient or not effective? Perhaps both.
You are correct,by not efficient like Obadiah and I you mean half ass?

[TruePoint]

1. Are you under the impression that the money the state spends doesn’t come from the taxpayers if it is included as a line item in the state budget? Whether it’s a bond measure or a budget line item, ultimately the cost is borne by the taxpayers - and that’s a good thing! The taxpayers should be investing in their state university. The distinction here is with the method of approving that investment, either through direct democracy (ballot measure for a bond) or representative democracy (legislature providing for the expenditure in the state budget).

2. Are you really making the argument here that treatment and rehabilitation for people dealing with addiction issues - which is a national epidemic with super costly local impacts - is not a good use of state resources? That’s the thing out of all the things the state spends money on that you think is wasteful?

I acknowledge that it can be hard to have the very important discussion of URI’s funding without veering slightly into politics. That being said, ATP has made clear his preference that the discussion here does not become a political shit throwing exercise, so out of respect I’m asking that if we want to continue this discussion we make sure not to get too far away from the original topic or we’ll have to take posts down. Just a preemptive warning.

[Obadiah]

For the record, Rhode Island ranking on funding for higher education has been in the 40's for decades - ranging a high of 41 to a low of 48. In all fairness to RI, all the NE states have poor ranking and Vermont and NH have historically kept RI from falling to #50. Only New England state to change that metric is Connecticut which has ranked in the top 10 over the last several years. RI's funding has been especially problematic in capital investment despite recent gains. The bond/voter process is cumbersome, wasteful and adds uncertainty, costs, and misallocates university resources as officials run around the state giving talks to support the projects to various Chambers Of Commerce, etc., etc.

[Brian Forster]

Obadiah-thank you !! You took the words right from my mouth.
I (and others) think Dooley and Thorr having to go to the state and ask for anything is insulting as hell.
The pols should be getting off their arses and get down and see the facilities first hand.
People write like the engineering building,Ryan center ,football renovation and condemned track are like elective,cosmetic surgery.
Like a supermodel getting lipo suction,70 year old women getting her lips done or a 70 year old man getting a face lift.
These projects were at or beyond the breaking point.

[TruePoint]

For the record, Rhode Island ranking on funding for higher education has been in the 40's for decades - ranging a high of 41 to a low of 48. In all fairness to RI, all the NE states have poor ranking and Vermont and NH have historically kept RI from falling to #50. Only New England state to change that metric is Connecticut which has ranked in the top 10 over the last several years. RI's funding has been especially problematic in capital investment despite recent gains. The bond/voter process is cumbersome, wasteful and adds uncertainty, costs, and misallocates university resources as officials run around the state giving talks to support the projects to various Chambers Of Commerce, etc., etc.

We agree on all of this, and based on what both of us have said here for a better part of a decade or more, I don’t think there is much daylight between us on this. But complaining about using the bond referendum process because it shifts the burden to the taxpayer makes no sense. The burden is on the taxpayer regardless. There are problems with bond referendums as the only mechanism to secure state funding for URI capital projects, as you articulated, but the idea that they are bad because they “push the bill onto the taxpayers” is just weird. The taxpayers are on the hook either way, and you could argue (if you were so inclined) that putting it up as a ballot measure gives taxpayers more direct control over whether they want to make that investment. The taxpayers of Rhode Island should be investing in URI. It’s a worthwhile investment.

[theblueram]

If you correlated state funding over the years to tuition increases, I think it would be statistically significant..

[Brian Forster]

True Point-on the hook for what ?? Where is the liability??
Name one URI major investment risk in recent memory-Hurley's contract,new tennis courts,Meade renovation,Mackal indoor track facility,new weight room,Ryan Center,engineering building etc.,etc., ad infinitum that was done poorly?

[TruePoint]

I think I kind of agree with the point you appear to be trying to make in this post (truthfully I’m having a little trouble following you), but this seems different than the point you made earlier when you complained that using the bond measure pushed the bill for the project onto the taxpayer. Shouldn’t the taxpayer be footing a lot of more of URI’s capital improvement costs than they are, whether thru bond measures or state budget items? This seems like the exact point that you were making in this recent post, so I’m pretty confused what you’re even arguing here.

[Rhody83]

Did this thread get off topic

[TruePoint]

Did it? I mean I guess it has drifted somewhat from the title, but the larger discussion around funding URI seems pretty related to the original topic, right? I think we probably can move this thread out of the basketball section, though.

[rhodylaw]

Deferred maintenance or lack of graduated improvements as the result of inadequate annual funding results in the need for more bonding then would have otherwise been necessary. Letting the infrastructure reach the point of near condemnation also increases the cost to rehabilitate the infrastructure. The taxpayers wind up paying more for not appropriately funding in an annual budget as the actual costs and the finance costs increase. For some projects there is no choice but to borrow. Others could have probably been budgeted for and cost the taxpayers less, but hey since when do the politicians really care about saving us money.

[RF1]

Knowing how some of the idiots on Smith Hill operate, don't be surprised if one of them calls for the state contribution to URI's operating budget to be cut due to the Ryan's gift.

[ramster]

Knowing how some of the idiots on Smith Hill operate, don't be surprised if one of them calls for the state contribution to URI's operating budget to be cut due to the Ryan's gift.

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[Rhode_Island_Red]

Obadiah-thank you !! You took the words right from my mouth.
I (and others) think Dooley and Thorr having to go to the state and ask for anything is insulting as hell.
The pols should be getting off their arses and get down and see the facilities first hand.
People write like the engineering building,Ryan center ,football renovation and condemned track are like elective,cosmetic surgery.
Like a supermodel getting lipo suction,70 year old women getting her lips done or a 70 year old man getting a face lift.
These projects were at or beyond the breaking point.

The university having to go to the state and ask for stuff has been happening for decades. In the 70s Mo Zarchen had some success doing that because he was a better politician than most of the clowns in the legislature, and he had a friendly governor in Phil Noel.

Asking the liars, frauds, cronies and mental-hospital alumni who populate the General Assembly to visit URI would be asking most of them to take an overnight trip.

[Obadiah]

When The Providence Journal editorializes about the $35 million you know its a big deal. I must agree with the tone and content of this editorial. Well done, Tom and Cathy, well done.

https://www.providencejournal.com/opini ... ode-island

[Taylor Swift]

When The Providence Journal editorializes about the $35 million you know its a big deal. I must agree with the tone and content of this editorial. Well done, Tom and Cathy, well done.

https://www.providencejournal.com/opini ... ode-island

Excellent to see this written.

[section(105)]

Obadiah-thank you !! You took the words right from my mouth.
I (and others) think Dooley and Thorr having to go to the state and ask for anything is insulting as hell.
The pols should be getting off their arses and get down and see the facilities first hand.
People write like the engineering building,Ryan center ,football renovation and condemned track are like elective,cosmetic surgery.
Like a supermodel getting lipo suction,70 year old women getting her lips done or a 70 year old man getting a face lift.
These projects were at or beyond the breaking point.

The university having to go to the state and ask for stuff has been happening for decades. In the 70s Mo Zarchen had some success doing that because he was a better politician than most of the clowns in the legislature, and he had a friendly governor in Phil Noel.

Asking the liars, frauds, cronies and mental-hospital alumni who populate the General Assembly to visit URI would be asking most of them to take an overnight trip.

.......yeah, but I’ll bet many of them can get to their student rental business homes in Gansett without an overbite trip......