New A10 - URI Basketball's Conference Future

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 11 years ago

Thanks, Gonzo, for catching that omission. I have gone back and edited the original post to include all present A-10 schools by category. Go to that post to see the data in one spot.

RhodyRam2011 · Unread post by **RhodyRam2011** » 11 years ago

TruePoint wrote:
RhodyRam2011 wrote:Just a general point, but I don't know how people are trying to pretend like this isn't a BAD thing. It is a very unfortunate situation. We will no doubt be regulated to a LOWER conference standing, CAA/MVC level maybe? You can't sit here for months talk the absolute best case scenerio -- saying we got Hurley, wait for the transfers, we're going to the tourney in three years -- and than knock people for saying that this is a HUGE blow for the situation overall because it isn't a positive outlook. It is painful to read all the delusion sometimes. Let's try to stay realistic. You don't lose 6-7 of your programs to other conferences over a three year period and pretend like everything is going to be okay. We are taking a significant step back, and it is going to be difficult to recover from. Realism is sanity.
I don't think anyone is claiming that this is a "best-case" for the league or for URI. As you said, though, lets try to stay realistic. Anyone paying attention to the bigger college athletics landscape saw this coming years ago. We used to talk about it on the freaking Projo board. To me, "staying realistic" doesn't mean curling up in the fetal position and weeping myself to sleep, or lighting my own head on fire like Rambone, who seems to have been reduced to firing off whatever fear-induced thought is presently going through his mind like a tourrette's patient overcome by hysterical paranoia.

Today is the first day of the new college basketball reality for URI. For anyone that didnt see it coming: welcome to the party. My preference is to take stock of the landscape, formulate a plan that will deliver Rhody to its best possible basketball scenario, then go about executing that plan.

It's hard for me to imagine what scenario the people melting down here had envisioned for Rhody - within the constraints of reality - that would have left us considerably better off than we are now. An invitation to a 16 team superconference? Why? So we could be the 10th best program in the league in our up years? Instead, we're in a conference that is respectable but not daunting, and which we have a legitimate opportunity to become the class of as long as we are focused on that objective and not preoccupied with licking our wounds.

This is where we are today. How we respond could very well determine the next 50 years of the program. So lets look forward and not back. Lets figure out how to dominate this new league, not bitch about how mean Dave Gavitt was to us almost 40 years ago.

TP -- I am at work and don't really have time to respond. But I agree 100% with you. At the end of the day, it is not "best-case" by any means. However, we are still in a respectable mid-major conference.

After Hurley arrived, I think a lot of people around here had visions of us on the fast track to being the next Gonzaga, Butler, Xavier, etc (which I don't think was realistic anyway -- and at the same time don't discount that there is a small possibility it could happen, i.e. Butler in Horizon) and they don't want to believe that this is not very likely anymore.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

I'm sure all those big time schools in the WAC, Horizon League and CAA prevented Gonzaga, Butler and VCU from doing what the accomplished.
URI is pondscum, and can never do anything special. Think small. WE DON'T!

RhodyRam2011 · Unread post by **RhodyRam2011** » 11 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:I'm sure all those big time schools in the WAC, Horizon League and CAA prevented Gonzaga, Butler and VCU from doing what the accomplished.
URI is pondscum, and can never do anything special. Think small. WE DON'T!

Rod, I said ... After Hurley arrived, I think a lot of people around here had visions of us on the fast track to being the next Gonzaga, Butler, Xavier, etc (which I don't think was realistic anyway -- and at the same time don't discount that there is a small possibility it could happen, i.e. Butler in Horizon)

I said there is a SMALL pssibility it could happen. No one is saying it couldn't. But those programs are outliers compared to the 100's that haven't reached their success. This is what I mean about being realistic. You don't have to fire back every time somebody says a realistic comment that doesn't agree with your emotions.

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 11 years ago

I'll be glad when we can start talking about games and recruits again.

twisted3829 · Unread post by **twisted3829** » 11 years ago

I'd look at George mason, Davidson, Detroit, Cleveland st, and college of Charleston as replacements

neil · Unread post by **neil** » 11 years ago

A final point about attendance. I know it was Keaney but we sold out every home game no matter who the competition was during the Harrick years. People will come to see a winner regardless of the opponent.

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 11 years ago

neil wrote:A final point about attendance. I know it was Keaney but we sold out every home game no matter who the competition was during the Harrick years. People will come to see a winner regardless of the opponent.

And I'm guessing that the capacity of Keaney is probably about what we average now at the RC.

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 11 years ago

neil wrote:A final point about attendance. I know it was Keaney but we sold out every home game no matter who the competition was during the Harrick years. People will come to see a winner regardless of the opponent.

I just think it's hard to compare attendance of 2013 to attendance of 1998. For adults, it's economics. For students, with phones becoming a permanent appendage, technology. I know I have to budget a lot more than I did 15 years ago. And teens/young adults are much less interested in sports than they were as recently as 15 years ago. Their new appendage has everything they need.

spookydog · Unread post by **spookydog** » 11 years ago

Billyboy78 wrote:
neil wrote:A final point about attendance. I know it was Keaney but we sold out every home game no matter who the competition was during the Harrick years. People will come to see a winner regardless of the opponent.
And I'm guessing that the capacity of Keaney is probably about what we average now at the RC.

I think capacity was around 3400.

Rambone65 · Unread post by **Rambone65** » 11 years ago

Charlotte, Temple, Dayton, Xavier, St Louis, Butler and UMass.....that's a lot of SOS and RPI firepowwer gone in an average year....you can't dispute that. Rod, I don't disagree that the A10 will react -- they have to. But I just feel like their options are very limited at this point. We are headed to be a conference resembling something closer to the MAAC than to the top 7 conferwence we are today. There are real implications for us from a scheduling point of view. To get more RPI and SOS traction, we're going to have to play more games against higher tier opponents, and those games will amost certainly be mostly on the road as they will not want to come to RC. Its going to make for a lot of changes to the program downstream.

section(105) · Unread post by **section(105)** » 11 years ago

The predictable surprise ahead for the A-10 is that we/ll end up having raided another conference or two, to fill the expected vacancies created by the CYO 7++. Those raids(predictable) will result in teams that we would currently view as solid A-10 caliber hoop programs and probably some lesser programs(surprise)from conferences we view as below the A-10.

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

My qustion is what happens to our current TV contract now that the league is not the same one that the TV execs paid for. Will it remain the same; which means we can entice new schools or will it be cut?

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 11 years ago

If you look at the data I posted earlier, you don't have to a be rocket scientist to know that the A-10 biggest arenas and fan bases are departing the league. If the A-10 has any aspirations it MUST NOT add schools who havea similar profile to the bottom A-10 schools in facilities and fan base. That means no to Drexel, Iona, Stony Brook, Fairfield, etc.

Also, geography should not dominate thinking on a new A-10. URI's marquee program is men's Basketball. It is the only sport that generates more money than it spends. You do not sacrifice your best program to keep your olympic sports happy on travel costs. Thinking big means expanding the scope and reputation of your school. Playing in one small region is a passe' idea. That is why URI agitated to get out of the Yankee Conference years ago and this concept got its real beginning with Arkansas leaving the old Southwest Conference back in 1991 In the expansion game the league must go west. I don't want to sound harsh, but I think persuading Fordham, LaSalle, and St. Bona to find another affiliation would be a sweet start.

I would keep Duquesne because they have some strengths which using a comparison to PC clearly shows. Duquesne is a school of some size and prestige, a university granting doctorates. Duquesne has bigger endowment than PC. The Palumbo Center provides a better practice facility than Alumni Hall, the new Pittsburgh arena is larger, nicer and technologically more advanced than the Dunk, and greater Pittsburgh is a larger market than Providence despite the Dukes having to share it with Pitt.

The new A-10 and URI can prosper in the future. Keep the faith, all is not lost.

RhodyRam2011 · Unread post by **RhodyRam2011** » 11 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:I think you mean relegated.. Where do you get 6-7 from??? THAT's unrealistic and untrue.
So, what do you and all the other chicken little gang propose?
We fire Hurley and join the Little East in D3?
It is what it is. It's done. The A10 WILL Soldier on and deal with it.
All this whining and crying isn't going to change anything.

Charlotte, Temple, Dayton, Xavier, St Louis, Butler and UMass ... is that not 6 or 7? Did I forget how to count?

BFC · Unread post by **BFC** » 11 years ago

Stop whining about people whining. If people want to talk about the positive things happening in our program (ex. Coaching Staff), start a thread about it and go ahead. But the conference threads are about our conference situation which isn't positive at the moment. Less good programs, less money, less positive. We can disagree about the impact but the foot stomping every time someone dips under the sunshine measuring stick is silly.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

When did Dayton, UMass and St. Louis leave? I must've not gotten the memo.
Obidiah, Fordham has a bigger endowment than anyone.
What does it mean, regarding basketball comittment? Not much.
"Adapt or die!", as they said after the Russian Revolution. Taking a fetal position
isn't my deal.

URIGONZO · Unread post by **URIGONZO** » 11 years ago

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketb ... ng-sources

URIGONZO · Unread post by **URIGONZO** » 11 years ago

At the end of the article Katz says he "expects" Dayton and SLU to joing them after next year.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Well, I guess that's it, then.
If Andy Katz says it, then hell, it must be gospel.
He also said Jerry D was doing a good job and deserved to be retained.

URIGONZO · Unread post by **URIGONZO** » 11 years ago

I'm not saying it's a done deal, but that's where the speculation comes from.

And Rod, if you were SLU or Dayton....what would you do?

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 11 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:Well, I guess that's it, then.
If Andy Katz says it, then hell, it must be gospel.
He also said Jerry D was doing a good job and deserved to be retained.

Honestly, Rod, why do you even click on these threads? No one is forcing you. People are talking in probabilities. Of course the A10 will soldier on. It has no choice. Of course, there will still be games. But, people like to have discussions about most likely outcomes. You've been utterly wrong with your head in the sand every step of the way. A realistic outcome is Umass going to the big east with the football teams, SLU and Dayton going to the basketball big east in a few years.

So, people want to talk about options. It is entirely your right to think how you do but why click on these threads when all you are going to add is "everyone is chicken little, the sky is falling!" Some folks, myself included, enjoy the back and forth and projections. Therefore, I clicked on this specific thread to participate.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Well isn't that just good for you!

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 11 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:Well isn't that just good for you!

Just saying you bring nothing to this particular discussion, unless you count belittling others thoughts as constructive.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

I've suggested alternative schools to put into the conference.
What else could anyone suggest? Do tell us.
I think idiotic hysteria is what brings nothing to the table.
Better go back and read this thread again.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

What if Dayton doesn't actually go? It wouldn't surprise me if they stay in the A10, but if I had to pick right now they're gone after next season as ESPN reported earlier.

Also, Stony Brook is in the middle of a nice $21 million renovation of their basketball facility. Not really big, but respectable and will look good on TV, unlike LaSalle/Fordham/Bonnies, etc.

http://www.goseawolves.org/facilities/s ... arena.html

twisted3829 · Unread post by **twisted3829** » 11 years ago

i question also, do we need to bring anyone in? the A10 would be at 12 if X and Butler leave and 10 if Dayton and SLU leave. Do they add 2 to get to 12 (first choices for me a George Mason and Davidson) or stay at 10?

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 11 years ago

I was actually thinking Stony Brook last night. They are a big school and, for whatever reason, are sinking a boat load of money into athletics. They beat Army in football and gave Cuse a game. Not saying much but they are a program on the rise. Wouldn't be the worst idea betting on an athletic department wanting to go big time in a big TV market.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Nice looking arena.
Why not Quinnipiac, which also has a brand new arena, and is spending loads of money in
a very ambitious athletic program?
Their hockey team was number one in the nation for a while this year.

BFC · Unread post by **BFC** » 11 years ago

ATPTourFan wrote:What if Dayton doesn't actually go? It wouldn't surprise me if they stay in the A10, but if I had to pick right now they're gone after next season as ESPN reported earlier.

Also, Stony Brook is in the middle of a nice $21 million renovation of their basketball facility. Not really big, but respectable and will look good on TV, unlike LaSalle/Fordham/Bonnies, etc.

http://www.goseawolves.org/facilities/s ... arena.html

Do you mean it wouldn't surprise you if they weren't invited?

Rambone65 · Unread post by **Rambone65** » 11 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:I've suggested alternative schools to put into the conference.
What else could anyone suggest? Do tell us.
I think idiotic hysteria is what brings nothing to the table.
Better go back and read this thread again.

Obadiah has the right idea....think big...don't just try to add lesser schools...blow things up, get rid of dead weight (see ya Bonnies) in bad geographies, try to form something new and better. But it requires thinking outside the box at this point. Adding the likes of Fairfield or BU to the current lot (minus Dayton and St Louis too -- multiple sources now reporting that, not just Katz) is not the answer.

Rhody74 · Unread post by **Rhody74** » 11 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote: Why not Quinnipiac, which also has a brand new arena, and is spending loads of money in
a very ambitious athletic program?

Unfortunately Quinnipiac's arena only holds 3200 or so, though Stonybrook's isn't much bigger at 4,000. I'm thinking Siena might be a better fit. My first choice, though, is George Mason.

BFC · Unread post by **BFC** » 11 years ago

George Mason makes alot of sense. The CAA will be down to 9 members, Old Dominion is leaving for Conf. USA, Georgia State - Sunbelt, and Charleston - Southern Conf. Unfortunately, none of us know the legalities of dropping dead weight.
It would be nice to get in a conference with VCU, George Mason, and a few of these other large publics who are unfortunately looking elsewhere. Old Dominion is having a terrible year but they were battling with VCU year in and year out and their facilities are ridiculous.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Agree with Rambone65, 100%.
I'd love to see then just form a new league entirely.
Get rid of Duquesne, Fordham and Bonaventure.
Bonnies can go to the MAAC, Fordham back to the Patriot League,
Dukes to the CAA.
Problem is, we've never seen this kind of outside the box thinking
from our or any other administrators.
You need a leader with some vision to accomplish this. Is Dr. Dooley that man?
Time will tell.
I like the idea of George Mason. I was a visitor to his plantation home in Virginia.
Very impressive.

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 11 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:Agree with Rambone65, 100%.
I'd love to see then just form a new league entirely.
Get rid of Duquesne, Fordham and Bonaventure.
Bonnies can go to the MAAC, Fordham back to the Patriot League,
Dukes to the CAA.
Problem is, we've never seen this kind of outside the box thinking
from our or any other administrators.
You need a leader with some vision to accomplish this. Is Dr. Dooley that man?
Time will tell.
I like the idea of George Mason. I was a visitor to his plantation home in Virginia.
Very impressive.

You have to think that someone has thought of it. The devil is always in the details. What does the league charter have to say about liquidation? Unanimous? Majority? Super-majority? Are there ethical issues (I know, I know silly to even think about that). What is the potential cost of litigating this?

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

Right, cost of the more destructive sweeping change options may be prohibitive, since we don't have the pot of gold being dangled in front of us from Fox, like C7 did. No way they would have done all that work so aggressively (expensively) if they didn't know they'd be getting $3M+ a year for a decade... EACH!

ramfan85 · Unread post by **ramfan85** » 11 years ago

Of all these departing teams, I'm going to miss Temple the most. Throughout our league's history, we've always been able to at least say that we had them to carry the banner.
I think we ought to seriously look into forming a western division. It may help with St.L and Dayton. I can't see either of them staying the way the league is constituted now (with these defections). I always liked WSU, for one option. When I was in Kansas in the sixties, they were a big deal. They had a fan base that rivaled KU and KSU in BB.
But, as long as we have the dead-weight schools holding us back, we're never going to be taken seriously.

Ramulous · Unread post by **Ramulous** » 11 years ago

Quinnipiac is an interesting situation....the school is making tremendous strides academically....their law school has jumped in the ratings over the past several years....they are very generous in their scholarship offers to students with excellent LSAT scores to the point where is almost tuition-free for those prized students who make the mean scores go up....which pleases those rating services...and the ratings matter to many....

.....they are also starting a medical school in the near future....almost another guarantee to quickly raise a school's academic standing and profile...

....the campus is virtually brand new and most buildings are state of the art....

.....I must assume their administration is very ambitious and aggressive.....probably in athletics too...

.....and Stony Brook is good academically also...

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 11 years ago

Schools like Fairfield, Quinnipiac, Stony Brook have lots of potential, but right now the A-10 needs some real beef to replace the strong fan followings and facilities of the departing schools. We might be able to take one of these schools, but not when in the league you already have four smallish schools with poor facilities, small fan bases and no recent record of achievement. Otherwise we morph into the MAAC, America East, or the NEC.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

While I'm still very concerned about the future of the A10 and what that means for Rhody [and the Hurleys' future here], I realize that it's not too contructive to be wailing and knashing my teeth at every opportunity.

So.....this thread has some great theories about what could happen with the league. What's done is pretty much done with the new BE, so it's time to focus on what the A10 can do to keep it's standing as the 2nd best non BCS BB league out there, if that's possible.

Hopefully we will hear very soon about the A10's intentions and whatever direction they go in. My hope is, is that they find a way to drop the dead weight, and add a few more GOOD programs. They are out there. How successful the A10 will be in luring other schools, will depend in large part on TV money like everything else going on in the college BB world right now.

I will no longer speculate on what we can and can't do. The sky ISN't falling, I know that. But things right now look very uncertain, and no matter what happens, the A10 won't end up as strong as they were when this season started. That much is obvious, or should be. What happens because of that, we'll all find out pretty soon.

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

The worst thing is to be in a one bid league...I believe that that is why Dan left Wagner... a great season cut short by a stumble in the conference tourney. We must look for teams that can help us be a 2-3+ bid league. If we cannot start from scratch, I would like to merge with the MVC and have an East and Central division. They are much stronger than the CAA. Realtime RPI has the CAA ranked #24 out of 31...the Patriot League is 18.

Rhody Blue · Unread post by **Rhody Blue** » 11 years ago

I believe and have heard George Mason and Creighton are the A10s primary targets.

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

I thought Creighton was going to the BE 2.0 either in wave 1 or 2. Is that not the case? Those 2 would be solid additions. I would feel a lot better with them in the fold. But why would Creighton want to leave the MVC which now finds itself better than the A10?

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Yes they are. While they would be a great get, with StLouis and Dayton leaving, we have no other Midwest teams as of yet. They would need company.

But, they are going to the BE.

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

Has anyone mentioned Belmont? 5,000 seat arena RPI 25...

Or Akron 5,500 seats RPI 38

Or Ohio U 13,000 seats RPI 76

All 3 of these teams have had multiple NCAA appearances in the last 5-10 years. I know, the last 2 play D1 Football, but maybe they would like to upgrade BBall.

Iggy1979 · Unread post by **Iggy1979** » 11 years ago

RamJam wrote:College of Charleston and Davidson would be a great fit for the new league. Both have strong athletic programs have strong basketball tradition, good academics, and would help market the A10 to the southern region. Charleston just built a brand new arena and that town and school is basketball crazy. Kinda a shame what Butler did to the A-10, but I dont see many schools in the north you could add. Perhaps if you add COFC, Davidson, George Mason and can pair that with VCU, St Louis and a few other teams, the A-10 could morph into having a north and south division that could help offset some of the travel concerns.

I'm also impressed with Siena's attendace. Bring them on.

Iggy1979 · Unread post by **Iggy1979** » 11 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:Well, I guess that's it, then.
If Andy Katz says it, then hell, it must be gospel.
He also said Jerry D was doing a good job and deserved to be retained.

Rod: I'm confused. Are you saying this is not happening or it is but it's not a big deal?

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Ohio U sounds good. Would have the biggest arena in the A10 after Dayton leaves. They would be instantly competitive.

Again, the biggest issue might be, what can the A10 offer to intice schools like that?

That's a good point. With what's left, the MVC would be better than us.

Lots of work to do, as they say on the Bubble Watch.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Iggy, if the A10 gets it's butt in gear, it might not be such a huge deal. If they don't, it will.

Or, as has been said, maybe the presidents and AD's of the top A10 schools get together, and form another league.

With all the changes to come when it comes to realignment, by the time it's done, we might not recognize some of these conferences.

wakefield · Unread post by **wakefield** » 11 years ago

The best way to get rid of Fordham is to change how the TV money/NCAA units are shared among the A10 members.