Game #16: @ Massachusetts - Saturday 2:30pm

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 9 years ago

So when we do poorly it's an indictment of our team, but when we do well then it's just because the other team is worse or we're lucky? Unbelievable.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

Yeah, and we could just as easily be on a four game losing streak.
We have only played well against VCU, and that was for 35 minutes.
We are negative, not by the losses per se, but how we lost, and
when the game was lost.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

True, Rod. The 2 games we've won in the last 4, were against the 2 worst teams in the league, with one at home no less. By the skin of our teeth also.

I look at more than just the W-L record.

We have yet to beat a top 100 RPI team. That speaks volumes about where we are.

11-5 is truly fool's gold. If we don't improve, 20 wins has no chance of happening.

Running Ram · Unread post by **Running Ram** » 9 years ago

We are not even negative, we are critical and with good reason, we are 0-2 in the past two winnable games and if they were winnable there has to be something the coach could have done better, nobody is calling for DH's job or cross with where the program is, I'm sure we all realize we are working towards something great, but to brush it off and be okay with losing to UMass for the fourth time in a year because "we could easily be 4-0" in the past 4 games instead of 2-2 doesn't make sense to me, we are critical because we are not 4-0 when we easily could be. We come here to talk about, amongst various other things, strategy and execution. I'm sure anyone paying attention with any basketball acumen at all would question going 5 guards against UMass, I'd bet BH sr. would ask DH to explain the wisdom in it, but we here are too negative and shouldn't ask those kinds of questions...

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 9 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:True, Rod. The 2 games we've won in the last 4, were against the 2 worst teams in the league, with one at home no less. By the skin of our teeth also.

I look at more than just the W-L record.

We have yet to beat a top 100 RPI team. That speaks volumes about where we are.

11-5 is truly fool's gold. If we don't improve, 20 wins has no chance of happening.

Best road win is Duquense (#241). Best neutral is Santa Clara (#196). Best home is Nebraska (#96). I didn't think this was the NCAA year but you need to knock down the door on some good wins this year and, as Yogi said, it's getting late early. I am OK with the natural progression of the young guys but you'd like to see the staff progress, too. And would definitely love to see another 2015 big.

RAM67 · Unread post by **RAM67** » 9 years ago

I have seen both games, one in person, and the other on TV. I do agree that the last 5 minutes of those games were tough, but to criticize the entire program from game prep, to game situations, to recruiting over and over again is beyond ridiculous. I think Dan is smart enough to watch film and make any necessary changes that are needed. Most of you probably had us losing to VCU and Umass in your preseason predictions and that included a player at the 5. By the way my statement about being 4-0 was in response to someone saying we could be 0-4. It works both ways. Also I am not saying it's OK to lose to anyone, especially Umass in a game we could have won. I don't mind criticism or calling the coach out, but nearly every thread turns into a negative discussion, including the one on Butts, where no one has seen him play or know his situation.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

I'm not critizing the entire program. I am not happy with the strategy employed by the coaching staff late in games, in regard to who's on the court, and what kind of play calling is going on.

As for the VCU game, yes we blew a lead late, but since I didn't see that game, I don't know if that was more on us or if it was VCU taking it from us. Graham took over the game late. He's pretty good, so I've heard.

The UMass game, it was all us blowing it. It's what we didn't do, much more then what they did.

Losing leads late to teams we should beat is the worst way to lose. That's what has got our panties in such a big bunch lately.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

Nobody is criticizing the entire program. That's absurd.
We know how far Dan has taken this program on and off the court.
We're criticizing the five guard and four guard strategy, which
has turned two games into losses.
That dovetails with the recruiting discussions and the dire
need for additional size, and better use of the size presently on the roster.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

Rod, I think it just comes down to Dan not trusting Gil and Earl.

But for the life of me, why would he bring JR in? You would think he trusts him even less than the other two.

I really hope we see some changes starting Thursday. Anybody with a pair of eyes can see what he's doing isn't working.

Go with your best until they foul out or drop. Give the freshmen a chance to take control late in games. They are the future.

If we are going anywhere in the future, they have to lead the way. There is nothing to lose. A few more losses, and we're playing for next season anyway. Maybe if things turn around, there is still some hope for THIS season.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 9 years ago

Rambone, you can say you're not criticizing the entire program, but in various threads during the last week you have criticized X's and O's, strategy, substitutions and recruiting (past and future), plus you have questioned the overall direction, current status and future prospects of the program. Is that not true? You may not feel like you are generally upset about the entire program, but your posts can come across that way and you post about a hundred times a day and it is always relentlessly and hysterically negative.

Rhody72 · Unread post by **Rhody72** » 9 years ago

We are not going to go very far with just an inside scoring game and short inside players, no matter how tenacious a defense we play. URI will have trouble against average A10 teams. Perhaps, we can recruit more shooters in future years. For this year, we need to either be content with mediocrity in the A10 or develop outside shooters. If we develop outside shooters, then EC will get better as well. The offensive strategy we are using will not get us beyond where we are. Our PGs and wings need to work on their outside shooting, and take these shots when open rather than always looking to penetrate.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

TP, like I told Rod, I've been laid up at home thinking of things to complain about. Too much time on my hands.

I'll hopefully be going back to work in a couple of days, and stay off this board and give you guys a break.

Give myself a break also. I want this team to win now, and I should realize it's not ready to happen yet, for various reasons which we all know about.

Someday, somehow.

P.S. TP, I'm not hysterically negative. I'm overly pessimistic.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 9 years ago

Haha Bone. I know how it is to be laid up and prisoner in your own head! You don't have to take a break from the board, just hate to see someone so passionate about the program being so down on it. The last two games were tough for every Rhody fan to take, no question about it.

Hope you're feeling better, BTW.

Seawrightspostgame · Unread post by **Seawrightspostgame** » 9 years ago

Hard week, when you lose close ones it invites critiques and things like that.

Starting the UMASS game I was so grateful for dan hurley. End of the game I bemoaned the era.

Luckily the book isn't closed and it is a long season.

GY=URI · Unread post by **GY=URI** » 9 years ago

We have outside shooters but when you scout URI you know that there will be infrequent passes inside and you can stay on you man.
When we do pass inside it never comes back out because the big man is so happy to finally get a pass that he forces his shot at the basket.
Even if your big is not great you still have to teach him to make a move to the basket then dish out to an open man. Open man has to be ready to catch and shoot. This is not complicated. Guards have to limit their dribble. Much harder to defend a pass than a dribble. To much dribbling leads to
other players without the ball standing around and watching the dribbler. Passing the ball around the outside and not passing inside also gives the opponents inside men time to rest. The concept of passing around and including ALL players works in all TEAM sports.

Running Ram · Unread post by **Running Ram** » 9 years ago

Addressing 72's last bit of commentary, I agree we can't reach the next level without either a deep game or a post game, for sure we're not a team of knock 'em down shooters, so I don't see us pulling a Dayton and I don't see us winning consistently at this point by stretching the defense with the 3 ball, results for half the season are in and I'm confident in that assessment. However, I don't know just what we could do if we were to roll with two forwards in a slightly more traditional format, mainly because it hasn't been advanced as viable. I love TJ and don't want to see his minutes suffer, but I'm also soooo very tired of hearing how match-ups dictate our line-up, I don't believe TJ is the best option to sub for Gil or Has! Perhaps in a bind he or Jarrell can help when we have guys in foul trouble and the match-ups aren't just ridiculous, or as a part of our arsenal as a way to dictate pace in spurts, but as our go to strategy, well, I'm baffled. I'm not down on any one person, coach, player, director or otherwise, I just want to see what it looks like if we try to dictate tempo with at least two forwards on the court, so my opinion of what that looks like can be informed with observation.

Running Ram · Unread post by **Running Ram** » 9 years ago

In other words, 4 times out of 5, Watson should be the guy to sub for either Gil or Has!!!

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

Funny, that which is so plainly obvious to us,
seems lost on the staff.
Why would you not use Watson as first off the bench big?
Why would anyone consider Reischel as a suitable replacement
for a PF/C?
You're replacing Gil or Hassan with a guy who is not physically strong,
doesn't set picks and shies away from contact.
Is this playing favorites or is it really a logical basketball substitution?
The Watson thing is starting to remind me of former All Pro NFL WRs,
who "can't get the system", and don't play much after coming to
New England.
Is any of this all that complicated? It's basketball, no brain surgery.

RAM67 · Unread post by **RAM67** » 9 years ago

What would be the ideal match ups with Lalane and Esho?

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

Last year's UMass games Gil had 7, 10,
and 17 against UMass and foul trouble in all 3 games.
Yet his best game was against a formidable LSU front court.
I guess it would be Hassan and Gil, if he decided to show up.
Lalanne and Esho are both long and agile.
Esho was a bench player last year, playing behind Putney.

Seawrightspostgame · Unread post by **Seawrightspostgame** » 9 years ago

Chad Johnson? Quiet, no problems, and clearly at the time the biggest receiver and most athletic???
Doesn't matter anymore.

Earl Watson!!! Earl has gotten better at the free throw line while Gil has become worse.

I like them all. Earl deserves minutes(I understand he was injured) he competes regardless of what they say.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

Joey Galloway, too.

RAM67 · Unread post by **RAM67** » 9 years ago

As you said Rod, both players are agile, and Esho played a lot on the perimeter. I don't think any of our bigs could have kept up with him. He certainly was a one man wrecking crew before he went out .

Seawrightspostgame · Unread post by **Seawrightspostgame** » 9 years ago

Yeah they ended Galloway's career really.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

Well, if Dan is serious about Watson getting more minutes, then we will see less of 4 guards and more traditional 2 forward-3 guards.

Who gets more minutes between Gil and Earl, should depend on who's bringing it that particular game.

Guess it depended on Earl playing better on defense. It's all about trust, according to Dan.

We don't have an Esho type player on our roster. That's the stretch 4 that Dan wants, but can't seem to get, at least yet.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

Hassan Martin is athletic enough to stay with anyone.
Esho is nothing special.
Martin is stronger and has longer arms.
Esho averaged 5 ppg in his first two years,8.9 last year, and 13.9 this year.
He had 18 points against us.
How is he a stretch player, when he's made 10 3's in his entire career?
You guys are making him sound like Kevin Durant.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

I know he's not that great, Rod, but he made a difference against us.

Anyway, Esho didn't beat us. WE beat us.

56 points, with 3 coming in the last 6+ minutes, beat us.

That should be the focus of any improvement. Offense. I guess you could add getting defensive rebounds in crunch time too.

That's it.

It's a shame really. Here we are, giving up an average of less than 60 pts. a game, yet having to struggle to go life and death with mediocre teams just to win a game. Of course, VCU isn't mediocre. But the others we've played in conference so far have been, or worse.

Unread post by **SGreenwell** » 9 years ago

Re: Watson starting, he had 3 fouls in 15 minutes. Two came within one minute. While Biruta isn't immune to this issue either, it's hard for me to see Watson playing more than 20 MPG as is with his fouling issues. He has 26 fouls in 145 minutes - one every 5.5 minutes - and that's with him coming off the bench, and not always matching up with the opposing team's starters. I agree with others who are frustrated that sometimes URI decides to go super-small instead of playing him, but I also don't think he has shown enough ability to avoid fouling to justify starting.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

So what? Play him until he fouls out.
Beats the hell out of not playing him.

hrstrat57 · Unread post by **hrstrat57** » 9 years ago

Never quite understood the " if a guy has 2 fouls he has to sit the whole first half " rule.

I read Dean Smith's whole book and couldn't find that one anywhere......

I'm with you Rod play "em till they foul out and next man up in many cases especially with our forwards except perhaps Martin.

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 9 years ago

1foul every 5.5 minutes = 27.5 minutes of playing time.....what's wrong with that?

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

EXACTLY.

At least put Earl in 2nd half until he fouls out.

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 9 years ago

I'm confused by everyone's confusion on why Watson wasn't the first one off the bench. He dislocated his shoulder Thursday, couldn't practice Friday, and they didn't know what he could do in game action Saturday. I'm sure they were hoping that they wouldn't have to use him at all and that he would have a week to get better. It turns out there was an emergency, they had to break the glass, and he was solid in the 15 minutes he played. What's confusing about this?

Also, you can't just say he'd have 27.5 minutes of playing time because right now he averages one foul every 5.5 minutes. It's one thing to do that in 9.7 minutes a game that are carefully selected. It's another as his minutes per game will ramp up and he's not as hidden. Fatigue and being more likely to play against the other team's better players means if he continues to play the same way he'll probably foul at a faster rate than once every 5.5 minutes.

Finally, having a bunch of players that foul a lot is one thing on an individual basis. However, if you get a few of these guys that foul a lot doing it early and often it gives the other team far more foul shots. That's bad, we probably want to avoid doing that.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

That taking players out with 2 first half fouls, is a
relatively new strategy.
They used to leave guys in until they got 3.
As for Watson, yes, I get he was injured Saturday.
How about the games where he didn't play at all?
Fatigue, playing 15 minutes? As someone said the other night,
these kids played in AAU ball, where there's sometimes multiple games on one day.
Not getting treating Watson like he's a glass figurine,
when lack of size is such an issue.

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 9 years ago

I don't think he can't handle it, I'm just saying as he plays more minutes he'll suffer from more fatigue than what he does now and players commit more fouls as they get tired. I'm excited to see him play more, I just don't think you can automatically say that he does this in 10 minutes, so extrapolate that out and you have his 15, 20, 25, 30 minute numbers.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

You're right. His numbers would flatten out with greater time.
I'm just thinking of the option of Reischel or Watson,
when Hassan or Gil goes out.
Unless we're playing Dayton or a team of munchkins,
logic say to put a big man to replace a big man.
This five/four guard strategy just goes against conventional wisdom.
We can easily get away with the three guard concept, because EC is a very good rebounder.
Four or five is just looking for trouble.

Seawrightspostgame · Unread post by **Seawrightspostgame** » 9 years ago

Give me more Swatson until he hurts us.

For some reason I bet Earl can impose his will in a basketball game more than Reischel.

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 9 years ago

I would definitely choose Watson over Reischel in that scenario, and I'm ready to see Watson more than Biruta if Biruta can't pick things up here.

Another note from the coaches show, when he was going player by player, he said that he's really looking for more out of Biruta. That he's got 13 conference games left in his career, it's time to let it rip. He also thinks a big problem with Biruta when it comes to picking up fouls is that he's thinking about fouling too much, which leads to him doing it more. He thinks if Biruta can just get after it and not worry about fouling so much that he'll actually do it less.

Shinze88 · Unread post by **Shinze88** » 9 years ago

RhowdyRam02 wrote:Finally, having a bunch of players that foul a lot is one thing on an individual basis. However, if you get a few of these guys that foul a lot doing it early and often it gives the other team far more foul shots. That's bad, we probably want to avoid doing that.

1 of the many reasons to employ some zone defense.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

What about Gill's rushed shot-put free throws?
Don't get that, either. It looks like he can't
wait to get the ball out of his hand.
Dan would probably rather face a pit of scorpions
than play zone.

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 9 years ago

RhowdyRam02 wrote:I don't think he can't handle it, I'm just saying as he plays more minutes he'll suffer from more fatigue than what he does now and players commit more fouls as they get tired. I'm excited to see him play more, I just don't think you can automatically say that he does this in 10 minutes, so extrapolate that out and you have his 15, 20, 25, 30 minute numbers.

I agree, generally. But, it's not like he is going to play 30 minutes. Even 20-25 minutes shouldn't break you down to the point where you are reaching and lazy with your feet which leads to fouls. Also, maybe some consistent minutes will let him get into the flow of the game which might actually decrease fouls. In any event, can't have JR patrolling the paint.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

His FT shooting form is bad. Too much arc on his shots also.

You would think the staff would have some input on that with him.

Damn it. My doc says I'm not ready to go back to work for another week, so I'm here to bug everybody some more....

I told him being home to watch or listen to URI games is bad for my blood pressure. He wouldn't listen.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

Rambone, you're kind of the anti-Ace.
She doesn't post when there's criticism of Hurley or the team.
You make up for her and then some.
Not that there isn't cause for critiquing these losses, or
substitution patterns.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 9 years ago

Some of us, myself included, do go overboard on the negative side.

Believe me, I'd like to do it a lot less. I should anyway.

Do you think Dan actually reads any of our rants? I doubt it, but I know some in the program do.

Just like almost any board, we have some here that really know their basketball.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 9 years ago

Dan's wife, Andrea, told me he doesn't read us.
He also doesn't like it when people like Jon Rothstein put
out overly optimistic stuff.
I do know from personal experience, that someone reads
us in the Athletic Department.
Speaking of the program, no news is good news on a particularly
potentially disrupting front. Hope it stays that way.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 9 years ago

Registration deadline is Jan. 24 FWIW

giovanni · Unread post by **giovanni** » 9 years ago

Hopefully Earl gets some minutes, while his production most certainly will level out in proportion with extra minutes played, it obvious Earl has skills that should be able to help us given more minutes. With the fouls and a couple other things he does out there that the staff may not like, in his position it could partly due to the fact he knows he isn't going to receive a lot of minutes and it pressing. As a player, knowing you are going to get limited minutes, you tend to push and try to make things happen which at times can result in mistakes you make because you are unable to get into the flow of the game. In probability Earl will probably still get his fouls, but like Rod say, big deal, let him foul out. Right now in very limited time he typically shows flashes of something good, so if can translate some of that good with more time and he fouls out, big deal, let him play.

I don't like the fact that Dan seems to put a label on his minutes, or I believe he has even mentioned "next year" for Watson. Like he said about Gil, there are 13 regular season league games left and another 6 weeks of so of practice, that's almost half a season. If Earl begins to improve whatever it is in practice the staff doesn't like, and he does get 15 minutes and produces bigger #'s let him play whatever, not 15 minutes not next season. It's bad enough that when Gil goes out we go to a 4 guard offense with either TJ or EC basically playing the 4, it makes absolutely zero sense to put Reischel in at the 5 when Hassan got in foul trouble. Sorry, like someone else mentioned, if Gil is also in foul trouble, it has to be Earl. If Earl is hurt, it has to be Iffy.

Dan doesn't seem to have a lot of trust in his big guys at all of the offensive end. I know Gil has had a disappointing year thus far, but he has had moments in his career where he has shown some decent offensive skills and has produced in spots. To me he looks somewhat uncomfortable on offense, as do the couple other forwards we have. A couple of times I have seen Gil at the top at the 3 point line get the ball and not even look toward the basket, but rather seemingly just wants to get rid of it as fast as possible. While I really don't want Gil taking 3 pointers, it looked to me on a couple of occasions he was totally unguarded and could have taken a step in and taking a 15 or 16 footer that would have been wide open. I've wondered why the staff hasn't found a way to get Hassan more touches, especially since he has continued to produce points in the few times he touches the ball. He shows a very nice touch around the basket and he has pretty good form on his jump shot. I believe give the opportunity he can fairly consistently knock down the 12-15 footer. There was one time in the UMass game that Watson got position pretty deep, received the ball and he was almost isolated with his defender in good position to score. What did he do, he took a dribble and passed the ball back out, did not even contemplate making an offensive move. And Earl, in my opinion has shown some nice ability to score the ball around the basket. I have to think this is a product of the lack of confidence in the coaching staff and probably quite a bit of yelling at these guys in practice for attempting to do something offensively that they deem totally ineffective. While I'm not saying any of these guys are going to look like Kevin McHale inside, I think there is a little bit more to offer if given the opportunity. Any offense we get down low can only help EC, Jared, Jarvis and all the guards. Confidence breeds confidence. I've seen a coach like Rick Pitino have some very good shooters over the years because he believed in them, let them shoot without pulling them out every time they missed a shot. It's obviously a fine line, but sometimes you have to give some rope to certain guys. Let's face it, its not like we have guys that are knock down shooters, or pure scorers creating on their own.

As far as match up, I am tired of hearing that too. Yes, you can use that in certain instances, a game here and there, but not basically every game. Watch every other team around the country that play a more traditional line up with a center and power forward. They don't take those players out every game because their opponent may be smaller, or playing a guard oriented team. While it may happen at certain times in certain games, it doesn't happen across the country as frequently as the "match up" problem is used here. Seems like more of crutch or excuse to limit Earl's minutes.

And as far as zones, I know Dan and many coaches across the country pride themselves in man to man. Dan's father certainly being one of them. We all agree our defense has been outstanding for the most part, so I don't have a problem with that. But I also don't see or have a problem if we occasionally played zone here and there. Players can rest a bit in a zone and you can certainly create problems for a perimeter challenged team like UMass. Even if you flash it a couple of possessions here and there. Coach K (999 wins) has used it this year. Jim Boeheim, over 900 wins, has made a pretty good living with it. Pitino over 700 wins has used it. Rick Barnes nearly 600 wins has resorted to it this year. I think that shows a lot about what the game is like today. I like us being a rock solid man to man team, I wouldn't see a problem using zone at times.

eli#10 · Unread post by **eli#10** » 9 years ago

OK Rod what the f'k are you referring to?

section(105) · Unread post by **section(105)** » 9 years ago

I suppose the basketball bible these days, taking players out in the first half upon getting their second foul is the norm. That makes sense, I guess, where the players off the bench can hold their own, Howver, we ain't got that kinda of quality developed depth on the bench....I mentioned earlier, play our bigs until they foul out. That is probably not in the basketball bible either, but....

ramfan85 · Unread post by **ramfan85** » 9 years ago

Being Gil's backup is almost like being a starter.
Get well soon, Rambone.