New A10 - URI Basketball's Conference Future

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 11 years ago

Knowing the low standards on investigative reporting and quality at ProJo, the two independent sources this article cited were probably the Xavier message board and this one.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

RIFan wrote:Regarding CSU, I don't think the A10 can afford too many teams with "potential" to try and replace the teams we are losing. Maybe one, but the rest need to be as established as possible.

They've been pretty good for a while now. I know they play in a tiny gym, but I still like them compared to a lot of what else is out there.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Um, CSU plays in a bigger arena than the Dunk:
"On November 1, 1991, the ribbon was cut, officially opening the Wolstein Center. The beautiful $55,000,000 state-of-the-art, full-service, multi-purpose facility means many things to many facets of the Cleveland community.

To the Cleveland State athletics, it means fruition of a dream- - a home for CSU's basketball teams which had been envisioned almost since the day that a state university was born from the seeds of little Fenn College in downtown Cleveland.

The dream came true in 1991 in the form of the largest college-owned basketball arena in the State of Ohio with a seating capacity of 13,610."

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

You're right, Rod. I looked up their attendance and saw that they only average around 3K per game, and then saw the attendance figures for the Woodling gym (which they apparently replaced a while ago) which only fit about 3600 people.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

They must've had big plans for basketball, because that's one
huge on campus arena!

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 11 years ago

theblueram wrote:Whoever signed the A10 media deal should be fired. Being one of the top conferences and watching away games via shitty streaming is a joke. This league was really strong when that contract was signed. To accept the money offered is ridiculous as we now know. As far as new teams, it would be wise to look inside first and set some serious standards(attendance,budget,facilities,scheduling) and hold members accountable. We all know who needs to step up so set the bar and if they don't comply, see ya. Then we can look at new members.

smartest comment on this matter, somebody somewhere allowed the weak to swallow the strong. the A10 was in a position of strength for once in my lifetime and in 1 year they got robbed. someone is holding a bad tv contract, that is getting even worse by the second with defections. it continues to baffle me that the league had to sit back and do nothing, or at least it appeared that way.

wakefield · Unread post by **wakefield** » 11 years ago

Correct me if I am wrong but the new contract for A10 gives them digital rights to games which are not picked up by their national network partners. They are working on a digital network and will have inventory for it.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

Without knowing for sure if X and Butler (or even more teams) were to leave after this season, I don't see how the A10 would have had any OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENTS regarding their contingencies. The types of moves they are making at this point are of the UNannounceable variety. Until X and Butler officially declare themselves members of the new Big East as of July 1, the A10 really cannot announce anything.

As of today, there are 14 members of the A10 for next season (officially, after planned departures of Charlotte and Temple). How can the A10 make an official announcement regarding new membership when there have officially been no unexpected changes to its membership for next season?

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

I agree with ATP. I usually find myself agreeing with BAR on most things, but I don't get the criticism of the A10 here. Not sure what you wanted them to do about the realignment thing, and I'm not sure how much better they could have done with the TV deal. We'll see how the deal changes in light of the departures, if at all, but unless it is completely voided I think it was a good deal for us. Everyone knew that losing the top A10 teams was possible when they were negotiating the deal. If that wasn't the case, maybe they could have gotten a better deal. But if they didn't do the deal then, what kind of a deal could they get now?

wakefield · Unread post by **wakefield** » 11 years ago

CBS New York Webpage

"- Realignment chatter continues to focus on the Atlantic 10 targeting George Mason, possibly for as early as the 2013-14 season, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the situation. With Butler and Xavier set to join the new Big East and Temple set to begin play in “America 12″, George Mason gives the Atlantic 10 another strong basketball school in a solid market. The other school we’re hearing that the league could target? Siena."

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 11 years ago

It's hard to blame the A-10. You are worth what people are willing to pay you.

The Mountain West agreed to a deal that basically the basketball share of the deal is $375,000 on the heels of having the #1 conference RPI this season (in the old Big East the basketball portion was always usually divided by 4 which is where I got that number since the football/basketball MWC number was $1.5 million). So in hindsight, was the A-10 getting $400K a good deal?

I just looked at the conference RPI numbers. Over the past 3 years (MWC - 3.3; A-10 7.7), 5 years (MWC - 4.6; A-10 - 7.6), and 10 years (MWC - 6.6; A-10 - 9.2), the MWC has put up better conference strength ratings via RPI, and they really aren't even close. So I would say in comparison, the A-10 deal was a pretty good one.

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 11 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:They must've had big plans for basketball, because that's one
huge on campus arena!

The CSU arena has actually even hosted the opening round of the NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolstein_Center

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

So Notre Dame is going straight to ACC according to this report:
http://www.chicagonow.com/mayor-daily/2 ... -year-111/

Hopefully the new Big East stops at 10 teams (X, Butler and Creighton). That would be perfect for the A10.

ace · Unread post by **ace** » 11 years ago

Siena just fired their coach.

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 11 years ago

rjsuperfly66 wrote:It's hard to blame the A-10. You are worth what people are willing to pay you.

The Mountain West agreed to a deal that basically the basketball share of the deal is $375,000 on the heels of having the #1 conference RPI this season (in the old Big East the basketball portion was always usually divided by 4 which is where I got that number since the football/basketball MWC number was $1.5 million). So in hindsight, was the A-10 getting $400K a good deal?

I just looked at the conference RPI numbers. Over the past 3 years (MWC - 3.3; A-10 7.7), 5 years (MWC - 4.6; A-10 - 7.6), and 10 years (MWC - 6.6; A-10 - 9.2), the MWC has put up better conference strength ratings via RPI, and they really aren't even close. So I would say in comparison, the A-10 deal was a pretty good one.

People think that the TV networks care about results way more than they actually do. The fact that in 2013 so few of the games were televised and that people are scrambling for cruddy internet feeds is a pox on the A10 commish's office. Also, the other way to look at it is that the MWC got as much as the A10 despite having markets in the following hubs of commerce:

Laramie, WY
Colorado Springs, CO
Boise, ID
Logan, UT
Fresno, CA
Honolulu, HI
San Jose, CA
San Diego, CA

I mean, c'mon, $400k per team in an east coast conference with schools in DC, Philly, Richmond, etc. is ridiculous. Horrible. All around.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

ATP, I hope so too.

The problem is, is the uncertainty of the addition of Dayton and StLouis to the BE after next season.

If they are going to go [or stay], hopefully it's set in stone fairly soon, so the A10 can make it's own plans.

The A10 is going to have to be proactive, and not wait until they make up their minds.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

GBG, the problem is, the cruddy back half of the A10. We were part of that, but no more.

Yeah, NYC is a great market, but Fordham? Please!

StBonnies? Where the hell are they?

Fox has set the bar a lot higher with their ridiculous offer to the C7+. We'll see where that leads.

Iggy1979 · Unread post by **Iggy1979** » 11 years ago

Siena fires Buonaguro. This makes them more attractive in my eyes. If they join the A-10 they can get a a better caliber coach. They already have decent attendance.

Ramulous · Unread post by **Ramulous** » 11 years ago

Seems like Stony Brook (and Albany) would be good additions to the A-10..

OBRAM · Unread post by **OBRAM** » 11 years ago

I have heard rumbling about UMASS and Delaware to the yet un-named America 12 league with Uconn, and Cincy, and even JMU as they get 30k to their football games.

Iggy1979 · Unread post by **Iggy1979** » 11 years ago

The American 12 is a house of cards. UConn will get out as soon as they can.

steviep123 · Unread post by **steviep123** » 11 years ago

Delaware and JMU are FCS football - they would need to upgrade to FBS in order to go to the America 12

OBRAM · Unread post by **OBRAM** » 11 years ago

JMU already upgraded, they get near 30,000 at a game, UDel has plans to do the same, and maybe to expand to 40K+, but that plan has been on the drawing board and I don't know where it stands.

http://www.jmusports.com/ViewArticle.db ... =205241033

http://www.udreview.com/web-updates/har ... T-XCBz_l8E

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

MVC has stayed relatively small while we have expanded adding both good and bad teams (Duq and Fordham)

steviep123 · Unread post by **steviep123** » 11 years ago

OBRAM wrote:JMU already upgraded, they get near 30,000 at a game, UDel has plans to do the same, and maybe to expand to 40K+, but that plan has been on the drawing board and I don't know where it stands.

http://www.jmusports.com/ViewArticle.db ... =205241033

http://www.udreview.com/web-updates/har ... T-XCBz_l8E

I don't see anything in there about either schools football team upgrading to FBS from FCS. But their stadiums look great!

Ramulous · Unread post by **Ramulous** » 11 years ago

Only the big football schools at the high BCS level will make money going forward......64 teams in the big 4 conferences, maybe add the ACC to make 80 teams.....other than that you lose money with football....I can't see schools deciding it is a good thing to go BCS-wannabe....

wakefield · Unread post by **wakefield** » 11 years ago

RIFan wrote:MVC has stayed relatively small while we have expanded adding both good and bad teams (Duq and Fordham)

It seems they might be adding 1 to 3 teams and these are some of the teams mentioned
Belmont
Saint Louis
Valparaiso
Loyola
Illinois-Chicago.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

If StLouis doesn't go to the BE for some reason [they stay at 10 teams?], would they leave the A10 for the MVC?

Might depend on what the A10 does concerning adding more Midwest teams. If they don't, then they [StL] are out there all by themselves geographically. Could happen, I guess.

Then what Rick wanted would happen after all.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 11 years ago

Creighton and St Louis join in 2014

So as expected, there goes the Midwest version of the A10

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/ ... 0rZSxkf8IM

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

Heh... some have wondered if Dayton/Creighton were confused in this article. Lenn Robins may have made an oops.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

Bernadette McGlade talks St. Louis' resiliency and conf realignment on CBS Sports Radio:
http://www.cbssports.com/video/player/play/timbrando/7IiJ0u4t9PhY/bernadette-mcglade-on-st-louis-realignment

section(105) · Unread post by **section(105)** » 11 years ago

Siena opening for the Towson current coach, then moving to the A-10??.........

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Well, with the announcement of who's leaving unofficially/officially happening, the A10 needs to get on the stick, and fast.

I'm sure they have done some planning for this. Now we need to see the results.

Staying with the remaining 10 teams, will not cut it. They must add at least two more solid programs for next year, and maybe more the year after.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Want to add, that it's a little unsettling that there hasn't been any "rumors" about who the A10 might be adding.

With today's media, if there was anybody with any inside knowledge about what's going on, they would be leaking something about it.

Maybe when the BE "officially" announces the schools that are joining, and/or those schools inform the A10 they are leaving, then maybe we'll hear something?

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

The New York Post article likely was wrong about Dayton being the 3rd team to join immediately, as many suspected.

Andy Katz filed the following report this evening, reiterating the common theme of Creighton being the 3rd team to join along with X and Butler.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketb ... -7-10-days

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 11 years ago

Thought it worth noting the home attendance and seating capacities for the 10 most likely going foward A-10 members. URI will have the third largest venue by seating capacity and still was in the upper half for attendance despite a horrible on court season and disappointing ticket sales.

Code: Select all

HOME ATTENDANCE   GAMES  ATTENDANCE  AVG	CAPACITY
VCU               17	 130,781    7,693 	 7,617 
Massachusetts     13	 71,391 	 5,492 	 9,493 
Richmond          17	 92,317 	 5,430 	 9,071 
Saint Joseph's*	14	 61,226 	 4,373 	 4,200 
Rhode Island      15	 64,368 	 4,291 	 7,657 
St. Bonaventure	14	 55,824 	 3,987 	 5,480 
Duquesne*	      15	 51,005 	 3,400 	 4,406 
La Salle*	      15	 43,653 	 2,910 	 3,400 
GWashington       14    35,753 	 2,554 	 5,000 
Fordham	        11	 24,477 	 2,225 	 3,200 


* denotes that a non-campus venue is soemtimes used for home games

The Dude · Unread post by **The Dude** » 11 years ago

Just out of curiosity how is VCU's attendance average higher than the capacity? Just noticed that.

Billyboy78 · Unread post by **Billyboy78** » 11 years ago

The Dude wrote:Just out of curiosity how is VCU's attendance average higher than the capacity? Just noticed that.

Standing room, possibly?

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

VCU sold out their entire home slate this year before the first game was played.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Could you imagine that happening here?

I can't, no matter how good we get.

If we do get really good though, it would be nice if they expand the seating at the Ryan.

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 11 years ago

The Dude wrote:Just out of curiosity how is VCU's attendance average higher than the capacity? Just noticed that.

Getting the official capacities for the schools was not easy. There were multiple numbers listed even on the school's own web sites. The capacity for VCU may not be presently accurate. They added a club level in the last year that may not be reflected in the number I listed. Furthermore, they may have standing room as was noted by another poster.

The GW capacity is likely not right either. They have listed 5,000 for years but I seem to recall that their recent renovations reduced seating. Other schools such as LaSalle, Duquense, and SBU have also decreased seating with the replacement of benches with chairbacks. but thier official cpacities look to reflect this. Richmond is planning a renovation to the Robbins Center which will susposedly result in 1,000 seat reduction.

Getting back to standing room attendance, why is it that the Ryan Center is not allowed to have it anymore? I know that after the Sation Nightclub fire, the fire marshalls clamped down and claimed that the Ryan Center did not have enough fire exits. That however was before the Meade stands were extended to the RC concourse creating many more exit options. Why has this never been revisited? PC has gotten the Providence Fire Dept to increase capacity for their Hockey East games at Schneider. The capacity had been reduced due to renovation issues during the season but the PFD has now coneveniently changed course at a time when demand increased.

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 11 years ago

A look at this year's attendance and venue capcities shows that Rhody will be near the top of the league in these categories. Given the probably departure of schools with bigger venues and much higher attendnance from the A-10, it will be important for schools such as URI and UMass to raise their game.

BFC · Unread post by **BFC** » 11 years ago

"2. The reason the new Big East might not start out with 12 schools in the fall instead of 10 is the lack of consensus among the seven schools forming the new league. The best-case scenario would be for the new Big East to start fresh with a dozen. But if there isn't agreement on the schools beyond 10, they will wait for another year. Butler and Xavier are the locks to get first invites, with a debate raging among different factions over Creighton and Dayton for No. 10. Saint Louis is the other school that could ultimately be in the group. Having a primarily basketball-driven conference isn't a new concept. It's called the Atlantic 10. Georgetown coach John Thompson III wasn't being sentimental about the end of the Big East on Thursday. He said the Big East isn't going anywhere and neither is the tournament. He's technically right."

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketba ... point-shot

classof29 · Unread post by **classof29** » 11 years ago

Not that this changes anything, but it looks like X and Butler left today (according to Pete Thamel's twitter)....

Presidents and athletic officials at Xavier and Butler left A-10 meetings this am. No announcement expected, but they are gone.

To clarify on Xavier and Butler: Schools officials physically got up and left the A-10 meetings this morning.

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

Having a primarily basketball-driven conference isn't a new concept. It's called the Atlantic 10.

This is true, except Fox has finally leveled the playing field for one basketball only conference to compete with the BCS schools. We (A-10) have always been at a money disadvantage.

The Dude · Unread post by **The Dude** » 11 years ago

RF1 wrote:
The Dude wrote:Just out of curiosity how is VCU's attendance average higher than the capacity? Just noticed that.

Getting the official capacities for the schools was not easy. There were multiple numbers listed even on the school's own web sites. The capacity for VCU may not be presently accurate. They added a club level in the last year that may not be reflected in the number I listed. Furthermore, they may have standing room as was noted by another poster.

The GW capacity is likely not right either. They have listed 5,000 for years but I seem to recall that their recent renovations reduced seating. Other schools such as LaSalle, Duquense, and SBU have also decreased seating with the replacement of benches with chairbacks. but thier official cpacities look to reflect this. Richmond is planning a renovation to the Robbins Center which will susposedly result in 1,000 seat reduction.

Getting back to standing room attendance, why is it that the Ryan Center is not allowed to have it anymore? I know that after the Sation Nightclub fire, the fire marshalls clamped down and claimed that the Ryan Center did not have enough fire exits. That however was before the Meade stands were extended to the RC concourse creating many more exit options. Why has this never been revisited? PC has gotten the Providence Fire Dept to increase capacity for their Hockey East games at Schneider. The capacity had been reduced due to renovation issues during the season but the PFD has now coneveniently changed course at a time when demand increased.

Thanks for the clarification. It was just a general question. I wasn't expecting you to necessarily be able to find the exact capacities. One would think that a venue would know and list it's full allowable capacity (which typically includes standing room...total bodies allowed). I just found it kind of odd. Great work on finding the information though. It was just simply something that stuck out as kind of a head scratcher.
Great point about the Ryan Center capacity. I go to the football games and for some reason I don't think I've ever though about it like that...haha...wow. I wonder why they haven't been able to increase capacity since the stands were added....good point. Anyone have an idea?
I thought the original fire code issue was due to the stairs not being wide enough(or good enough) for the amount of people to get out in a reasonable amount of time, but since there are doors to the football stands RF1 makes a good point.

Iggy1979 · Unread post by **Iggy1979** » 11 years ago

ramster wrote:Creighton and St Louis join in 2014

So as expected, there goes the Midwest version of the A10

I'm probably in the minority, but I think long term it's a good thing for the A-10 to get rid of the Midwest schools and again become a conference from New England to Virginia. Schools outside of that geographical footprint are going to eventually leave. I'd like them to add schools from within that footprint (George Mason and Siena for example).

hrstrat57 · Unread post by **hrstrat57** » 11 years ago

Iggy1979 wrote:
ramster wrote: I'm probably in the minority, but I think long term it's a good thing for the A-10 to get rid of the Midwest schools and again become a conference from New England to Virginia. Schools outside of that geographical footprint are going to eventually leave. I'd like them to add schools from within that footprint (George Mason and Siena for example).

Agree

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 11 years ago

Iggy1979 wrote:
ramster wrote:Creighton and St Louis join in 2014

So as expected, there goes the Midwest version of the A10
I'm probably in the minority, but I think long term it's a good thing for the A-10 to get rid of the Midwest schools and again become a conference from New England to Virginia. Schools outside of that geographical footprint are going to eventually leave. I'd like them to add schools from within that footprint (George Mason and Siena for example).

I don't think you're in the minority.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 11 years ago

TruePoint wrote:
Iggy1979 wrote:
ramster wrote:Creighton and St Louis join in 2014

So as expected, there goes the Midwest version of the A10
I'm probably in the minority, but I think long term it's a good thing for the A-10 to get rid of the Midwest schools and again become a conference from New England to Virginia. Schools outside of that geographical footprint are going to eventually leave. I'd like them to add schools from within that footprint (George Mason and Siena for example).
I don't think you're in the minority.

I have been saying this too. I am glad that the Midwest schools are leaving in total - nobody left so there is no real temptation to build it back and nobody left to fret.

A10 should be just that - Atlantic 10 or 12, or 14 or 16 but keep it regional. All in the same time zone, all east.
There are plenty of schools to pick up.

The Big East imploded because they went so crazy with no geographical bounds (John Marrinatto) and they were split on Football/Basketball and Basketball schools. The breakup became inevitable.

The A10 can now build back intelligently.
There are a lot of school sports that will benefit from not having to travel all over the globe and stay local. Local helps to build and maintain rivalries better too.

I am not losing sleep over this Big east thing, I'm glad it's over.