Game #6: UMass-Lowell - Sat Nov 23 @ 2pm ET

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 10 years ago

Hassan? What are they doing with him?
He plays sparingly, looks lost and hardly ever touches the ball.
He's part of a dizzying substitution pattern, which has no pattern.
Martin has no plays run for him or through him.
It's like,"Hey, go out there and, I don't know....stand around and watch the other guys
stink."
I hope we don't waste his talents. I know he's only 17, but he's got to be better than one
put back and 10 minutes against a lousy team

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 10 years ago

Rod, one reason that I wasn't as outraged by our win today as some people is that I felt it was pretty clear Dan was experimenting with lineups and not necessarily putting the best lineup on the floor the whole time. If he was going to do that, this was the game. As the games become more important and more closely contested I would expect the rotation will get tighter and more consistent.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

Agree TP, but with Hassan, give him the ball and let him learn.

Is he getting discouraged already?

Dan has got to get aggressive with these guys, so they will be more aggressive during games.

Hey, if we're going down, at least go down swinging!

Experimenting or not, Dan was not happy with what he saw out there. Hopefully that's an understatement.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 10 years ago

Yeah I agree on Hassan. I'd like to see him get more run.

Spook5365 · Unread post by **Spook5365** » 10 years ago

I thought I had been imagining this or seeing things thru drunk goggles this season, but the coach confirmed it today. Ex Jarelle the front court on this team has no interest whatsoever in playing defense.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

That's what's so amazing about this year's team.

Dan built his reputation on hard nosed aggressive defense. Defense wins games at all levels of college basketball.

Last year's team played hard nosed aggressive defense. It kept them in games against clearly more talented teams.

Now I know the rule change has changed some things, but the basic premise hasn't. Get in people's faces and MOVE. Don't get caught out of position. Make the effort!!!

WHY aren't they doing this? Dan's no dummy, he sees what we see. The problem is, we don't have the frontcourt depth, to sit people who don't want to play defense.

I think that's the crux of the problem. If we had Hare and Aaman, it might help some. But we need more help than them, unfortunately.

Even in the backcourt, it seems our guys are afraid to get in front of opponent's guards, for fear of fouling. They aren't moving their feet enough. Just not aggressive enough all around. Very disappointing, to say the least.

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 10 years ago

This team is either not that talented or smart or both. Either they don't have the talent to do what Dan wants or they can't grasp it. Or worst case...Dan isn't what we thought. We have all been waiting the last 18 months for this and it sucks...other bad years we expected them...but we did not expect this. Dan had been building expectations until right before the season, when he started saying it might take time. Either his talent evaluation of the team was off and he only started to realize it once he saw them play some competition, or he knew it, but was trying to drum up interest and donations even though he knew they weren't that good.

Don't get me wrong...this can still be salvaged, but something has to click soon!

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 10 years ago

We need complete players up front. Guys who can play defense, rebound and score.
Biruta was supposed to be that. Aaman isn't and Hare isn't. Oneykaba isn't, yet.
Martin isn't yet.
Our most complete player is Munford, who plays D, passes well, and can drive as well as anyone
on the team. When he gets his shot back, look out. Plus, he plays with intensity.
Speaking of defense.....I'm watching MSU - Oklahoma.
MSU went from down 11 to to 14 at the half, with Adrian Payne going scoreless.
The interviewer asked Tom Izzo what the difference was?
Izzo said defense."We didn't guard anyone! We didn't have one man guarding!
YOU could have guarded better than we did!" The announcer thanked him for the compliment.(?)
At one point, MSU had 8 assists on 10 baskets.
I watch them to see how it should and could be done.
Besides defense, very crisp ball movement is their hallmark.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

Rod, I don't think Dan has forgotten how to coach. His last Wagner team was well drilled, fundamentally sound. Moved the ball well on offense and played solid defense.

He knows what to do. With this team, he hasn't yet figured out how to do it! It's full of players that just aren't on the same page, along with simply not enough depth of talent.

If there is any blame to be placed on him, I think it's the weight of false expectations.

And one more thing: Losing Bobby doesn't hurt the coaching of the team, imo.

But it IS hurting recruiting.

ramfan85 · Unread post by **ramfan85** » 10 years ago

For what it's worth, against Arizona, Martin looked like the worst or the worse on D. He has no idea what to do. We're thin up front. This will undoubtedly be the excuse for the rest of the year.
Unlike others, I don't see this team getting better as the year progresses. I see no evidence of that.
This team seems to play without heart. Replacing 1 or 2 players in the starting lineup won't have much of an effect.
Something is wrong with this team. I don't know what it is, but, something is definitely missing.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

I agree about Hassan. That's why he isn't playing as much.

The lack of heart thing, that is very troubling. That was something we were used to seeing from Baron teams, I NEVER thought I would see it from a Hurley coached team.

Something is missing, yes. We have a ton of theories, but no real answers.

Some players seem to be lacking confidence, at least.

Seawrightspostgame · Unread post by **Seawrightspostgame** » 10 years ago

I have been really disappointed the past week or so. I sorta wish DH would play a tight group and let them gain confidence and pummel lesser competition. Like football teams, run your best play with your best guys and see how far it takes you.

I also wonder if he isn't managing the egos, young talents, and team cohesion like a fox.

Actually I was trying to sell myself on DH being some mastermind that is engineering this team toward being good in feb/march, but we suck, I can think of a few plays off the top of my head that no basketball player would make( Biruta running over the pick into the lane and letting Gordon have 10 ft between himself and any other player for the backwards alley-oop. Stuff like that. Just stupid.)

I think realistically we are padding our win total for recruiting and team interest, developing the youth and hoping to hang with the teams in RI, while letting guys play so that they stay here and the APR works itself out.The Brown game seems like we should be getting points right now.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

Looking back, when Dan brought Biruta and O in, neither player was noted for defense.

Gil was/is a decent scorer and rebounder. Didn't play much defense at Rutgers.

O is still raw of course, but his asset is rebounding, not so much scoring, and definitely not defense.

I know Dan likes to bring in guys who can play good defense, but given the situation he was brought into, he might not have had much of a choice.

Hassan is all potential. I think he was a good defensive player in high school, but this is another animal. At least I think he can develop that ability at this level.

So, what we have is a front line that can't play defense. We are who we are. Should get marginally better as the year goes along, but will be a weakness until more help arrives.

Not what Dan wants, but what choice does he have?

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 10 years ago

I'm not sure it matters that Dan is not happy with with this game...this is the third or fourth game he has not been happy with, and yet nothing changes.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 10 years ago

Let's pile on a 17 year old kid. Great.
Of course this team will get better.
Matthew, Martin and Oneykaba have SIX whole games in collegiate basketballl.
Resichel, Minnis and Biruta have SIX whole games played since 2010-11.
Never heard anyone mention Oneykaba wasn't noted for his defense. Are we making up stuff on the fly?
Pretty ridiculous to expect these six guys to suddenly become a unit this soon.
Now we're questioning players hearts? Pretty weak.
We have some short sighted fans, for sure.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

RIFan, I think he just doesn't have many options. We're thin up front, and the guys he has aren't good defensive players.

That part's becoming clearer game by game. Dan's hands are pretty much tied.

So in a way knowing this, makes it a little easier to understand why we suck at interior defense.

The backcourt problems with D, are more easily solved. We have guys like Biggie and TJ that are known for defense, along with Jarelle, and I think EC will get it in time. As soon as they can adjust to the new rules.

The one thing that they can ALL do better though, is play with more intensity on D. They seem to do it when they feel like it. They need to do it ALL the time.

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 10 years ago

They are bound to get better...but how much? And doesn't it make sense that unless you have CFL coaching you, all the other teams will get better too?

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

Rod, I never said this team won't get better. Let's see how much better they get.

I'm just not as optimistic that they'll get to the level we all thought they would, this year.

You have said as much yourself.

Over and out.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 10 years ago

I didn't like this game today, but I lost my voice cheering, and yelling
for my team.
The people who went on record and predicted 20 wins and all the other
over the top predictions, are pissed, because they look silly.
I've said all along that this would take time. I didn't enter the contest because
I had no idea what our record would be. So, speak for yourself about "where we were supposed to be".
I don''t give a shit about them or why they're angry and/or totally negative.
Get off the bandwagon, but don't jump back on when this is turned around.
No program needs fans like that

BPR2010 · Unread post by **BPR2010** » 10 years ago

Rod, from being a Michigan State fan longer than Rhody, you are spot on with Izzo. It's truly why I love the guy. He has had 3 different starting lineups through 6 games this year. This is from the number 1 team in the country. This is with an upperclassmen laden team. This is with a SUCCESSFUL TEAM. If a guy isn't giving his full effort, playing well, not working well with certain players, Izzo makes the statement right away. He makes adjustments very rapidly. Branden Dawson, a 3 year starter, was benched after the Columbia game this year. Matt Costello, starting center, was benched in the same game. This whole "sticking with your guns" mentality, I have zero patience for. I'm so happy he's stated that rotation changes will be occurring soon. It needs to happen, the same starting rotation has grown stale all year and is simply rough to watch.

It's also very simple with the defense. Saw flashes of it today a few times with Reischelle and Matthews. Good defense turns into rapid offense. Good rebounding turns into great transition opportunities. Izzo's teams epitomize this. This is the critical failure with this team to my observation thus far. Both have been nonexistent which has led to very little fast break opportunities and easy buckets. Our half court offense gets stagnant very quickly, and usually turns into a 1 on 1 drive which simply is inefficient with the guys on this team. Lebron and Kobe can do that. However, forcing just a few more turnovers a game will help immensely, as will defensive rebounding. The free throw shooting I'm still at a loss on. 1 for 2 every time just isn't going to cut it. That's my 2 cents. Looking forward to shaking things up going forward.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 10 years ago

Nice post, BPR.
Izzo said after their win tonight, "I thought it was an ugly game, and I didn't enjoy it."
There's no BS with him.
Do you know he hasn't had a player leave early since 2006?
Far cry from the "one and done" slicksters he's competing with.
I really don't think you can have any chemistry on offense or defense, with constant substitutions.
I hope Hurley pares down his rotation, or at least gives major minutes to
whoever is contributing the most.

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 10 years ago

The difference between Michigan St. and most other programs in the country is that great players are willing to accept the "program" and "style" of the coach knowing that a national title is in their grasp. They are willing to do the things necessary to win games because they care about the team and the greater goal over individual gain (for the most part anyway).

At programs on the rise (who often promise playing time to recruits to draw them in to the rebuild process), it's not always that simple. The recruit (from the current coach or a prior coach) was promised X and often still wants X. You have to tread lightly (especially with APR ramifications) not to rock the boat too much. At the same time though, you need to figure out how to adjust things accordingly, because winning is the greater goal.

God bless these coaches, because the AAU baby culture has really hurt the game. These kids don't play for the team, they are often too busy playing for 6 years down the road hoping for a professional contract or personal notoriety. Rumors of shoe contracts for top prospects in the $100 million range before they even play a college game or land their first NBA contract. Leads to 450+ transfers per year, a bunch of kids not satisfied they had to earn playing time as young players. It sucks...

BPR2010 · Unread post by **BPR2010** » 10 years ago

It was very ugly, but Payne was out for a while with the foul situation which led to less interior defense and rebounding. What can ya do I guess. I did know that, he also hasn't had a recruiting class not make the final 4 in his career. Talk about a recruiting pitch for a high schooler. He recruits all midwest guys as well, but it's all players that fit his system. Back to Rhody though, the constant substitutions is reminiscent of Baron. I understand he's trying to experiment, but 6 games in now it should be cut down to a solid rotation of guys playing certain minutes. The guys I have the most problems with are the freshmen. Matthews seemed to be playing the 4 today when they went small, and then PG for a few minutes today. Martin never seems to make it a full 5 constant minutes in there which is tough for his development. Just tough to count on these guys when there's very little consistency with their PT.

jcru · Unread post by **jcru** » 10 years ago

I definitely think that is a part of it. There are so many substitutions as though these guys are interchangeable parts, and they aren't. You can see it in their faces, they are just starting to click with the other guys on the court, and string together a couple of plays back to back and then someone new is coming in. The look over to mid court weary as if to say 'who the hell is coming in now?' Or they make one error and they are literally looking over their shoulder to see if he is subbing them out, and he usually is. He tends to have a very quick hook for Minnis which I don't quite get.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 10 years ago

Again, what are the individual roles these kids are playing?
If EC is playing SF, he's in a different part of the floor, with a different mindset,
than playing PG.
Martin's role seems even more vague. he's too much of a talent to just toss out there
for filler minutes. It's not as if he's got major talent in front of him, either.
I don't recall is Martin and Reischel were ever in the game at the same time.
Time will tell how this unfiolds.
jcu, I thought the same thing when he yanked Minnis in a run in the second half.
It was one of those,"why?" moves.
superfly, you are right, the AAU mentality has ruined the game, an turned too many into "me first'
players.

ram1980 · Unread post by **ram1980** » 10 years ago

Another lackluster performance especially defensively... This team is missing "IT" whatever "IT" is. It starts with the coach.. Stop doing things the same. Mix defenses up. Stop the excuses. This team as constituted still has way more talent than last years, but the fire and intensity is ZERO. No high fives. No help to teammate when he hits the deck. No excitement period. TJ was the only one that got down and dirty. Awsome performance by him. Teammates need to follow that lead. Thought Biruta was that type of player. No sign yet of that.. Enjoy the game guys and play with fire.. Talent is there. Ratchet up the intensity.. Come on Coach. Show us you are what we hope you are and get these kids to stop playing like machines and let it all hang out.. Defense and rebounding is I want it more.. Let's go!!

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 10 years ago

I'm not sure people are upset they'll look stupid for their prediction in a fun message board contest, especially since most people were in the same neighborhood. My guess is they are upset that all the "reports" via twitter, and the news sites from sources "in the know" kept telling us to wait for this year. From the coach all the way down we were led to believe this year would be a big step forward. None of us really had anything to go by for the contest besides these reports, and we all arrived at about the same predictions...This staff has so far over promised and under delivered. When it turns around everyone will be happy again...

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

You guys are all spot on. Dan needs to settle on a rotation by the GMU game.

No more Chinese fire drill substitutions. You can't develop chemistry when you aren't playing together.

Intensity comes with confidence. Right now they don't have any.

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 10 years ago

It's great to aspire to what Coach Izzo is doing at MSU, but is it at all instructional to what we should be doing here this year? Izzo has been the head coach there since 95 and was an assistant there since 83. His system is clearly in place. Hurley is trying to blend the left over Baron players in with the players he's bringing in, all while juggling an APR mess and trying to see what he's got when the lights are on for real before conference play starts. Is it as pretty as we want? No. But I'll take ugly wins over pretty losses while we work our way up the ladder. And the fact that everyone on the team knows there's still a ton of work to do even while adding to the win column is very encouraging.

rhodylaw · Unread post by **rhodylaw** » 10 years ago

I am with rod - the sky is not falling. We have a team of guys who either are in the first few weeks of their college career or have been sitting out a year. It will take time to gel but this team will get better as the season goes on as long as they are not content with the Ws they are getting. That was the problem with Baron, pleased just to get the W. DH will not be satisfied until the team is playing to its potential.

My only concern is one that I always had with the last coach in recruiting. I always felt that with a few exceptions Baron brought in guys who were great athletes and had potential to be good ball players because they were players he could not get with the Bonnies, but the limited success he had there was due to getting guys who could play but did not necessarily have the top tier body. At the end of the day you need guys who can get the ball in the freakin hoop to win college basketball games which is why these lower level teams can have some success because their guys are better shooters.

brady1 · Unread post by **brady1** » 10 years ago

Well put Law,

I've got confidence Mr Hurley will have our RAMS Dancing at some point before anymore of us croak before we return to the NCAA's. Can we please put a mussel on bonefriar78 post after post of we're DOOMED, responding to everyone's posts with yea right we're DOOMED is downright nauseating.

GO RHODY!

Ramulous · Unread post by **Ramulous** » 10 years ago

Agree with Rambone or not......he is definitely a Rhody fan....that shouldn't be questioned.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

You got that right, Ramulous. Realistic and hopeful at the same time.

All I want to see from this team right now is IMPROVEMENT.

And, until we do, I will call it like I see it.

Blue Man · Unread post by **Blue Man** » 10 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:You got that right, Ramulous. Realistic and hopeful at the same time.

All I want to see from this team right now is IMPROVEMENT.

And, until we do, I will call it like I see it.

Agreed.

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 10 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:Rod, I don't think Dan has forgotten how to coach. His last Wagner team was well drilled, fundamentally sound. Moved the ball well on offense and played solid defense.

He knows what to do. With this team, he hasn't yet figured out how to do it! It's full of players that just aren't on the same page, along with simply not enough depth of talent.

If there is any blame to be placed on him, I think it's the weight of false expectations.

And one more thing: Losing Bobby doesn't hurt the coaching of the team, imo.

But it IS hurting recruiting.

Again. Why does everyone assume that DH can coach? I'm honestly asking this. And, what he did at Wagner or in HS, while nice just isn't enough to say so. There is also not a single coach on the staff that has proven they can install an offense or defense on this level to compete. I was hopeful after the EC class that he would just bring wave after wave of high level classes and the coaching curve would eventually catch up. Now, with a practically empty 2014 class and JUCO's and transfers being his MO, I am not hopeful.

URI had an adjusted offensive efficiency number last year that placed them #211 in the country. Defense was #164. This year it is #213 and #139. Zero improvement. You know what those numbers get you? Wins over UMass-Lawrence, drubbings at the hands of good teams, and the occasional upset when we have a night where everything drops.

Several times I have read "Dan hasn't forgotten how to coach" or "He knows what he is doing". Running a quality practice and holding kids accountable is fantastic. Implementing an offense that actual gets constant high quality looks is another. This staff needs an old school assistant coach or associate head coach who knows how to do this. I guess I wouldn't be too surprised if DH found himself on the right side of the learning curve. He is a bright guy. Tireless worker. But, I watch this offense and it's just not better than last year. At all.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 10 years ago

Agree on the older coach on staff. Beyond experience, it presents
the adult in the room among a younger peer group of coaches.
George Blaney,Jeff Jones, Larry Farmer types, who coached at a decent level and
were brought on staff here, in the past.
Maybe when Bobby was around, Dan felt that was the guy he'd lean on, but
I expected an older assitant to be added when he left. Instead, we added Murray and Enright to Preston and Tirone.
I think GBG has a legitimate point here.

jcru · Unread post by **jcru** » 10 years ago

He definitely has a legit point.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

Well, I'm still going to say it's because of the lack of pieces to this puzzle, that's the reason for the poor offense. I'm not going to say it's total lack of experience though. These guys, with the exception of EC and Martin, have played and practiced together for over a year now. They should be more comfortable with each other.

When Dan gets all "his " players in here, and things STILL don't click, then I'll start to question his and the staff's offensive abilities.

Of course, when will he actually get all "his" players in here? It's looks like it's going to take longer than expected, with only one frontcourt player signed right now, for next year.

P.S. I do think the offense will improve later this season. EC and Biggie, have shown they can move the ball and get the offense flowing, as long as they get help from the frontcourt. EC's upside is huge, we know that.

And Rod, it couldn't hurt to get an assistant in here that knows offense, to help things along.

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 10 years ago

I think the Gene Keady parallel at St Johns is a good one. Guy doesn't want the big gig anymore but knows more about teaching hoops than just about anyone. Let Lavin sell the program, recruit, be the guy while Keady deals with the nuts and bolts. Perfect combo in today's world.

Iggy1979 · Unread post by **Iggy1979** » 10 years ago

This board has gone bat crazy. So we were only willing to give Hurley one year and six games to turn around the program and produce a winner? Seriously?

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 10 years ago

"So we were only willing to give Hurley one year and six games to turn around the program and produce a winner?"

Who said that?

jcru · Unread post by **jcru** » 10 years ago

Oh, boy. Iggy's hypoglycemic again, look out.

jcru · Unread post by **jcru** » 10 years ago

Here you go, Iggy.

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 10 years ago

Iggy1979 wrote:This board has gone bat crazy. So we were only willing to give Hurley one year and six games to turn around the program and produce a winner? Seriously?

I said this going back to last year. It was fair to assume that given his name, his energy, and connections that recruiting would be a strength. But, I was not going to assume the X's and O's would be there just because his last name was Hurley. Forget producing a winner. How about producing progress. This team is not without talent but we can't crack the top 200 in offense? What player from last year has gotten any better? Plus, the transfers have all been at URI for over a year. Remember him saying that X was going to be so much better this year because he wouldn't have to carry the load? Well, he's been worse and he is still jacking up over five threes per game. This is not good coaching. I don't think anyone has given up on him. I haven't. But, there is nothing wrong with having your eyes open and evaluating this staff as the games build up.

Iggy1979 · Unread post by **Iggy1979** » 10 years ago

It's too early to make an assessment. We all wanted this team to come out of the gate flying high. we wanted them to jell immediately because the transfers had played together last year and the entire team went to Italy. That didn't happen. But that's short term. We're not happy. Hurley's not happy.
But how about long term? My expectations haven't changed. Hurley was a great hire who has quickly turned over almost the entire roster, which includes two stud freshmen. At some point, this team will be very good. if that doesn't happen, we can all flip out. But now, before Thanksgiving in year 2? No.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

Iggy, good point, but just when are we allowed to officially flip out?

Seriously, it's not time yet, I know.

What worries me the most, is not that it's going to take longer than we all expected, but HOW much longer?

Recruiting right now, has basically come to a standstill for next season. I did not expect that. That is the future for this program, we all know there are some holes to fill to get where we want to go. And by that, I don't mean fill them with transfers and jucos.

How are we going to fill them, and when? Dan????

Iggy1979 · Unread post by **Iggy1979** » 10 years ago

R78: I'll let you know when!

jcru · Unread post by **jcru** » 10 years ago

Are there actually any scholarships left to recruit with? I'm sure with this new APR thing, you have to actually have scholarships to offer and not just the fantasy ones Calhoun used to have day dreaming about all the people he was going to Brisport.

Hare is still here, they have the JUCO. That shooter that hasn't gotten off the bench ain't going anywhere , and we have no seniors and a half dozen juniors. Who expected a large recruiting class next year?

jcru · Unread post by **jcru** » 10 years ago

Maybe if Hare leaves they'll recruit one more player, by the time they figure that out it won't be the next EC or Martin. Perhaps it's better for everyone if hare just returns and they try to develop some of these players

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 10 years ago

After next season, we lose Biruta, TJ, and Powell. Three scholarships constitute a big recruiting class.
Hare is gone, so there's four, unless they sign someone in the spring.
The juco used up one scholarship. I thought they had one, but others have
said two. Without Hare, there's definitely two.
The reason X is still taking nearly as many shot as last year is the same reason
he took them last season. Who else can score? Matthews, and maybe Reischel.
So far, that's it. We expected Biruta to be taking the majority of post play shots.
We're back to a guard oriented offense. Very disappointing. We all hoped for balance.