Big East - Basketball Only Schools Leaving

Ramulous · Unread post by **Ramulous** » 11 years ago

A true playoff system in Big time football would have stopped a lot of the conference alignment action.

All champions of conferences get in the tournament......a few at large teams.....16 teams like URI's big time high school football division.....use bowl games as part of the playoff system.....makes 15 bowl games more than relevant....only 1 is now...

....no need to jump conferences because everyone gets the shot to win the national championship..

....I believe Tranghese opposed this type of scenario back in the day because the big east was in the football cartel...over time they lost their influence without Tranghese who was the man behind the day to day, year to year success of the big east.....Gavitt was the schmoozer, rainmaking political guy who put it together, Tranghese the nuts and bolts brains behind it all....and it is a formative step in the ultimate demise of the big east as a player in the national football scene....

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 11 years ago

The other part of the problem is that there are too many people making money off of the 35+ bowl games that exist. They believed that a playoff system devalued their games, as if a person from RI cared about the St. Pete's toilet bowl between Eastern Michigan and Western Kentucky. They viewed these games as money makers between promotion and travel. They tried to convince us that these cities would lose money by not having these types of games, even though when you watched these games on TV, you would notice that many of the primetime ESPN high school games had more people in the stadium.

Players don't get anything from these games. Most schools lose money on these games. The only real beneficiary --> ESPN, who gets to put 33 of these pretty terrible games on their station for live programming, games people might flick on as background noise during "Bowl Week."

If they did the right thing and "NCAA Tournament" styled the bracket, getting 16 teams with automatic bids, at-large bids, etc., now people have incentive to stay in smaller conferences. Win and you are in. However, look at Boise. Constantly a decent program, a few undefeated years, but always penalized by playing with the "little guys." Look at those old C-USA teams.

At least the fans got their 4 teams, but clearly there is still going to be a "major conference bias," via the old SOS argument.

I agree, if they did the right thing early on, and everyone could profit and benefit, then there might have been more stability. But even with the playoff system, there is still the "we are B1G, you are PAC, we get the Rose Bowl," and if you aren't in a Big 5 conference, you don't get any big game guarantee.

steviep123 · Unread post by **steviep123** » 11 years ago

wakefield wrote:Catholic 7 AND Big East ready to make plans
http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5238

From the above link

"With 10 teams for the next few years, the Big East also will make a strong push to get the a rule change lowering the number of teams necessary to hold a championship game from 12 to 10 teams."

If this had happened years ago, this conference realignment cr@p probably wouldn't have happened in the first place. It's the main reason why the ACC took in BC, VT, and Miami several years ago.

Maybe this would have happened anyway, but the conf championship game in football was a huge driving force!

Unread post by **SGreenwell** » 11 years ago

RJ, definitely agree with you on the Bowl System. Lots and lots of middle management types have skin in the game, and they're doing they're best to protect their own lot.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 11 years ago

http://blog.timesunion.com/collegesport ... ite/15440/
The Washington Post reported Catholic 7 leaders are looking to expand to 12 teams with two divisions separated into eastern and western schools. The eastern half would include:
Georgetown
St. John’s
Seton Hall
Villanova
Providence
either Richmond (now in the Atlantic 10) or Siena, which plays in the Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference.
The Post called Siena “a late entry but a potentially appealing one because it’s a Catholic school that (more importantly) plays in a 15,500-seat arena in Albany, N.Y.”

The western division would be represented by:
Marquette
DePaul
Saint Louis
Xavier
Dayton
Butler, the latter four which would move from the Atlantic 10.

VCU and Richmond could remain in the A10 opening the door to adding more teams from the Mid Atlantic

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 11 years ago

This new conference alignment may be better than the current A-10, but it still is a far cry from the Big East at its peak.

Focusing on what happens to the A-10, forward thinking has to acknowledge that the conference has always been plagued with some schools whose commitment to a strong program is not there. There are remnants of a stronger conference out there, but this will require big thinking and the fortitude to ask some schools to leave. The big thinking requires a broader approach to geography as knee jerk reactions focus on the travel costs of the non-revenue sports, the so called Olympic sports. The key question then becomes how much will you sacrifice your marquee, revenue generating sports program to accommodate the concerns of your Olympic sports?? On one of the URI post game shows, Chris Di Sano of College Chalktalk has some interesting and different thinking on the subject - more of a big thinker on the subject.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

Do you remember which game that was OB? They're all available on demand @ whjj.com.

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 11 years ago

ATP, I believe it was either the Xavier or Dayton games.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 11 years ago

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/co ... ory_1.html

Interesting news recently about Detroit being a possibility for the new ??? Conference.

Butler may not be as big a lock as originally thought. Butler would be the only team in the new Catholic League to be non-Catholic.

With VCU remaining in the A10, one wonders if Butler should remain? Problem is that all of Butler's neighbors would go C-7 including Xavier, Dayton and St Louis.

Ramulous · Unread post by **Ramulous** » 11 years ago

The current A-10 needs some midwestern partners....Akron, Cleveland State, Evansville, as possiblilities...

The C7 would be better off philosophically with all Catholic institutions as members. They would have stellar academics if they took on Fordham and Holy Cross.

Jks1985 · Unread post by **Jks1985** » 11 years ago

^^ Yeah, but academics don't bring in the money. Fordham and Holy Cross both play in high school gyms.

I think the C7 is set on the Xavier, Dayton, Creighton, Butler, St. Louis additions... would be shocked if those weren't the teams.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Dayton isn't going anywhere.
Fordham has enough money to do anything they want. They just don't
commit to basketball.
Holy Cross turned down a chance to be in the original Big East.
Both schools are what they are by choice.

RIFan · Unread post by **RIFan** » 11 years ago

how would a merger of the remaining 9 schools with the MVC be received? We could even drop the dukes and Fordham and get down to 7, and we could have east and west (central) divisions.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Looks like Dayton and VCU are staying. StLouis also. The A10 will be fine if that happens.

What would be nice, is if the C7 take StLouis and Creighton, and the A10 retains Butler. Butler's success rests with one man, Brad Stevens. If he were to leave for Duke when Coach K retires, then I doubt they would continue their run of success, especially in the C7 plus.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Rod, it's true that Fordham is loaded, but they don't want to spend much of it on BB.

Well, the A10 should tell them in no uncertain terms, shit or get off the pot. Either commit or join the MAAC.

If the A10 wants a better TV deal down the road, they won't get it with facilities like Fordham has.

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 11 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:Looks like Dayton and VCU are staying. StLouis also. The A10 will be fine if that happens.

What would be nice, is if the C7 take StLouis and Creighton, and the A10 retains Butler. Butler's success rests with one man, Brad Stevens. If he were to leave for Duke when Coach K retires, then I doubt they would continue their run of success, especially in the C7 plus.

I always thought that the C7 would think twice about adding Butler and VCU. No one is saying that they can't continue their program when/if Smart/Stevens leave but history is not kind to programs built on one guy when that one guy leaves. UNLV is still looking for their next Tark. If I were the C7, I probably take Butler but I'm not sure it is a slam dunk.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

VCU has proven it's not just one guy who can get hem to the Dance. Last 3 coaches have all been able to do that there.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

ATP, VCU is the model program for URI. Similar facilities, but a much larger school. I would have said X, but being a private school with no football [and a much bigger arena], they will always have more money for their BB program.

They have made CONSISTENTLY good coaching choices, just like X. Those good choices, especially hiring Smart, are the reason they can afford paying him those big bucks.

Hiring the Hurleys here, is a start. Only a start. Hopefully they can bring us to the heights VCU has reached, or at least high enough to allow URI to continue hiring and paying for the RIGHT coaching choices ahead.

URI96 · Unread post by **URI96** » 11 years ago

Why is SLU suddenly off the list?

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

I don't know if they were ever as firmly on the list as Xavier and Butler. All other schools were just possibilities.

twisted3829 · Unread post by **twisted3829** » 11 years ago

i'm pretty sure all 354 division 1 teams were rumored to join the catholic 7 at one point or another lol

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 11 years ago

and so has X, VCU and Gonzaga. Dan Munson starting the winning at Gonzaga, not Few.

to think they are about 1 guy is naive, they have built programs at all of those places and programs usually survive well past any individual coach.

wakefield · Unread post by **wakefield** » 11 years ago

"The Catholic 7 plan will be to announce a departure date and then immediately add at least three teams to the conference–with Xavier, Butler and either Richmond, Dayton, Saint Louis or Creighton as the 10th team, with the eventual possibility that five of the six eventually being part of the group." ajerseyguy
http://ajerseyguy.com/?p=5326

It sounds like the announcement will happen today or Wednesday.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

It's amazing how everyone is an expert on the new conference, but so little of the information agrees.
Throw out six or more teams that could join, and you can say,
"See! I told you so!".

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Well, if we lose 2, the A10 will be down to 11 teams after UMass leaves. Obviously, if we lose 3, then it's 10.

What to do?

If say, Dayton, StLouis and Richmond stay in the A10 for now, what to do?

My thought is, add 2 more good programs, and somehow dump a couple. Somehow work out a better TV deal, try to keep the above 3 from leaving in the future.

Notice the word somehow? Who the hell knows?

ramfan85 · Unread post by **ramfan85** » 11 years ago

I think URI and Bryant will be the only teams added.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

I was thinking Roger Williams and Johnson and Wales, maybe Salve Regina.
I lose sleep worryiong about all this.
Oh, and where is UMass going? PAC 10?
I personally think URI would be a wonderful fit in The Mountain West conference.
I heard this from a panhandler on Weybosett Street, who knows Dave Gavitt Jr.
and John Marinatto, who told him this after coming out of Madame Marie's Palm Reading
and Tarot.

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 11 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:I was thinking Roger Williams and Johnson and Wales, maybe Salve Regina.
I lose sleep worryiong about all this.
Oh, and where is UMass going? PAC 10?
I personally think URI would be a wonderful fit in The Mountain West conference.
I heard this from a panhandler on Weybosett Street, who knows Dave Gavitt Jr.
and John Marinatto, who told him this after coming out of Madame Marie's Palm Reading
and Tarot.

I forgot that Jack Bauer was sitting behind you with a Glock forcing you to open the Big East-Basketball Only Schools Leaving thread. The fact is that it is pertinent to Rhody and, if you took conjecture out of message boards, you would just be left with the Gospel according to Rod and Rod's letters to the Thessalonians. It's good banter to kick around what these conferences will look like and the impact on URI.

URI96 · Unread post by **URI96** » 11 years ago

Gonebarongone wrote:
rodfromcranston wrote:I was thinking Roger Williams and Johnson and Wales, maybe Salve Regina.
I lose sleep worryiong about all this.
Oh, and where is UMass going? PAC 10?
I personally think URI would be a wonderful fit in The Mountain West conference.
I heard this from a panhandler on Weybosett Street, who knows Dave Gavitt Jr.
and John Marinatto, who told him this after coming out of Madame Marie's Palm Reading
and Tarot.
I forgot that Jack Bauer was sitting behind you with a Glock forcing you to open the Big East-Basketball Only Schools Leaving thread. The fact is that it is pertinent to Rhody and, if you took conjecture out of message boards, you would just be left with the Gospel according to Rod and Rod's letters to the Thessalonians. It's good banter to kick around what these conferences will look like and the impact on URI.

Copy that.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

I like facts. So far facts on this subject have been few and far between.
Sure it has an impact on URI. Other than the identity of the C7, nobody knows anything for sure.
So, King of Comedy and The Psychic Universe, knock yourself out with speculation.
Can you tell us how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

For once I agree with GBG on something.

It's VERY important to the future of the BB program.

BTW, check out the Dayton board. Their thread on the C7 is way longer than ours.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Makes sense, because Dayton was once thought to be a lock for
joining the Holy Seven.

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 11 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:I like facts. So far facts on this subject have been few and far between.
Sure it has an impact on URI. Other than the identity of the C7, nobody knows anything for sure.
So, King of Comedy and The Psychic Universe, knock yourself out with speculation.
Can you tell us how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

I need to know if Danny Hurley is holding the pin. Then the answer would be eleventy zillion million.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Damn, you're good GBG!

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Ah, the new kinder, gentler Rod. Looks like the electroshock therapy did the trick.

I'd rather have the old one back.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

Come on Rambone. None of this back and forth stuff is serious.
How can anyone take it personally, when most of us don't know each other?
It's just a low version of show biz.
It's just opinions on an obscure message board.
In the end, none of what we say here, means very much.
GBG isn't a bad guy. He coaches kids. He's bright. We just don't agree on
Hurley. So what? We bust each other constantly. Who cares?

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Rod, I know. No prob. It was just my poor attempt at humor.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 11 years ago

No, Rambone, I got it.
My attempt at being serious.
Tone gets lost in writing.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

Hey, here's a thought.

If the A10 gets hammered in this C7 thing, they should join with the CAA, and have a North and South division. Just like they will in football. Take the best 6-8 teams from each conference. Or take 6-7 from each, and add a couple new ones. That way, you've got a solid conference that would get 3-4 bids a year most likely. With a new, and better, TV deal.

Rhody would then be CAA, or whatever it would be called, in all sports. Sound reasonable?

reef · Unread post by **reef** » 11 years ago

I am so sick and tired of hearing about the C 7 !!!

Rhodyhooopz · Unread post by **Rhodyhooopz** » 11 years ago

It should be called Georgetown and the 6 sisters of the poor.

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 11 years ago

Ohh good one, I mean how could I forget Georgetown is leading the BE regular season and Marquette is 2nd? Oh man, Villanova and St. John's are right on the bubble? PC not far behind them?

Outside of SHU and DePaul, this year and growing into the future, a little higher than sisters of the poor, don't you think?

He in glass houses SHOULD NOT throw stones, especially as a fan base believing (and rightfully so) that one man can turn it around for the future!

Back to the C7 though, they really stepped up their game once they had to. Once realignment news broke, people mocked the C7 because it looked like Marquette-Georgetown and 5 schools which would make up most of the basement of the Big East. I don't think anyone saw Villanova or St. John's truly returning to some sort of NCAA level team this year, or PC as a .500 team this fast in the Big East.

They needed to show they weren't just a few programs and a bunch of goons and I think they have somewhat done that.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 11 years ago

To be fair, Georgetown, Marquette, and Villanova are consistently good. The others ebb and flow, mostly ebb.

StJohns and PC are NIT teams this year. PC ain't dancing, they don't have the depth to make a run in the BE tourney.

The other two are crapola. The results this year aren't going to make a hill of beans worth of difference when it comes to realignment.

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 11 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:The other two are crapola. The results this year aren't going to make a hill of beans worth of difference when it comes to realignment.

No it's not, but after hearing about how terrible the bottom 5 are from all Big East football teams, all left out A-10 teams, etc., it's nice to actually be seeing the improvement we as fans expected to be on the horizon.

Saying "Oh PC and St. John's are on the rise," doesn't mean **** until they actually prove it, and I would say this year that have begun to prove it. Saying "we are going to be contenders by next eyar " doesn't mean anything until W/L's dictate that as well.

It's nice that they can start (even if just slightly) to solidify their seat at the table without always have to think about how we are being dragged along, and while we still are to an extent, it's nice to know that we still can have something to offer.

Rhode_Island_Red · Unread post by **Rhode_Island_Red** » 11 years ago

I just got off the phone with a source who said ITT Tech, DeVry, the University of Phoenix and Hamburger University are going to join the Sacred Seven.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 11 years ago

You sure that wasn't New England Tractor Trailor Training School, RI Red?

ramfan85 · Unread post by **ramfan85** » 11 years ago

The Columbia School of Broadcasting has turned down an offer to join The 7-Ups.

seanmc94 · Unread post by **seanmc94** » 11 years ago

Joke all you want; the C7 will be just fine.

twisted3829 · Unread post by **twisted3829** » 11 years ago

Not saying they won't Sean just making fun of all the teams rumored to be joining

ramfan85 · Unread post by **ramfan85** » 11 years ago

Twisted is right, Sean. They are going to be a good league. It's going to make it harder for the rest of us to get a non-BCS tournament bid.