Blue Man wrote:Yeah despite the negative side of my brain here after a tough week, this is a ridiculous title for a thread. It really shouldn't be even posted here. Yes Dan isn't the best coach in the league right now (oh no how terrible that our 7 year, young up and coming coach isn't already better than legendary college coaches like Bob McKillop, Phil Martelli, and Archie Miller already! OMG guys) but it's absolutely absurd to even put the two of these together for a comparison. Comparing Dan to Baron is like comparing an orange to London because there's an "o" in both words.
I get the immediate pain of the PC loss, but holy shit you've lost your god damn minds if you think these two are ANYTHING alike.
Do we need stats? OK hold on I've got stats. I will even include Dan's first 2 years which are 110% Jim Baron's fault for leaving the barest cupboard AND an APR that forced Dan to target different recruits than he would have originally wanted.
Let's start with the obvious record against ranked teams:
Dan Hurley: 3-9 .250 - Minus first 2 years of Baron's handcuffing, he's 3-6 against ranked teams, a .333
Jim Baron: 0-19 .000 - Self explanitory.
Jim Baron had 6 seasons where he didn't even get a ranked team on the schedule. Dan Hurley has given his team a chance to play a ranked team every year he's been here.
How about after the first week in February?
Dan Hurley: 18-22 .450 - Minus the first 2 post-Baron years of 5-12 (.294), he's 13-10 (.565). I don't think anyone could say he didn't get the most out of a young core team to win an A10 game and win an NIT game, or with an injury plagued team to knock off a ranked team on the road that fought til the end. Still has a chance to write something this year.
Jim Baron: 47-65 .419 - This stat doesn't show the MAJOR collapses during years where we could've been NCAA bound. How about 2010 where he missed 3 chances to beat the same ranked Temple team: home, road, and neutral? A senior day loss to an AWFUL UMass team at home? 1 of those wins gets you an NCAA birth that year. Started 12-1 against a soft ooc. Finished 23-9 before the NIT. 9-7 in conference.
Who could forget 09 where we started out 11-4 losing to Duke and Nova. Played 11-5 in conference with a chance to go dancing by just beating a terrible UMass team at home on senior day and win an A-10 game against the NIT bound Duquesne Dukes playing a back to back after we beat them a week before? That was fun.
How about 2008? That was fun. Started 14-1. Got ranked up to #21. Lost to ranked Dayton. Beat shitty Duquesne. Lost to an AWFUL St Louis team. Won some games then lost 8 OF THEIR LAST 10. Blew a 20+ point lead in the NIT by leaving their best player on the bench.
Do I need to go on?
Fuck I get that this week sucked. But you are high on some fucking shit if you are typing anything comparing Dan Hurley to Jim Baron. The fact that I am mentioning them in the same sentence is giving me fucking hives.
You can't ignore everything behind the scenes issues and "worry about the W's" and turn a blind eye to what was going on with the program under Baron. This is college not the pros. Academic issues matter. Issues with the law matter. You don't get to go and make W's if you're not already taking care of that business, or you're a UNC-type power that can sweep it under the rug.
But let's look at it in a vacuum. Say that shit is irrelevant, which it isn't and you're dumb for believing so. What did Baron win here? Ever? Not a god damn thing. Not a single big, meaningful game. Woo hoo, he beat PC a couple of times while still having a losing record against them. I'd gladly a win there for a win in any of those above seasons when it mattered. It sucks losing to a rival, but if you make an NCAA tournament in that same season it certainly eases the sting.
Was our program nationally known for anything other than a hot cup of coffee in the top 25 before collapsing? Was there EVER pre-season write-ups on a national level? If Jim Baron played the schedule Dan Hurley played these past seasons do you think his record is better? If Dan Hurley coached URI's teams from 07-2010 do you not think we're dancing AT LEAST 3 of those year?
You are high AS FUCK if you think that we'd be better off or the same with Jim Baron. I honestly hate you people with a fire that I can't even explain through words for even entertaining the thought.
Criticizing our young and up-and-coming coach for some tactical and game managing deficiencies is completely warranted and accurate.
Comparing a coach without whom we would be fucking FORDHAM to the coach who led to be that program, who may in-fact be the worst long term hire in college basketball HISTORY is fucking lunacy.
I know people tend to romanticize people when they die or after they're gone...but there was nothing good about Jim Baron with the exception of his oldest son, who was a career 43% 3 point shooter, who had 2 seasons over 45% AND NEVER HAD A SINGLE GOD DAMN PLAY DRAWN UP FOR HIM TO GET OPEN SO HE HAD TO LEARN TO SHOOT FROM FUCKING HALF COURT AND WE STILL COULDN'T MAKE THE TOURNAMENT OR WIN A FUCKING BIG GAME WITH HIM ON OUR ROSTER FUCK.
We should be so god damn lucky that within 3 years of Baron effectively giving our program the death penalty that we're whining about falling short BECAUSE WE DIDN'T MAKE THE NCAAs WHICH WE DIDN'T MAKE FOR OVER A DECADE BECAUSE OF FUCKING BARON. I THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO CALMLY EVISCERATE YOU IDIOTS TRYING TO MAKE THIS COMPARISON BUT NOW IM YELLING IN MY HEAD BECAUSE I AM REMEMBERING EVERYTHING SO TERRIBLE ABOUT THE 2000'S AND I FUCKING HATE ALL OF YOU FOR BRINGING THIS OUT.
Calm down, everyone, me included. We lost 2 top 75 games on the road. The season goals of A10 titles and NCAA's are still in tact.
Christ, the week sucked, we lost 2 winnable games - one of which was a rivalry, I get it. I live in this space of pain. But holy shit when threads have titles like this you make us all look like fucktards.
Blue Man,
Excellent research. I checked and this is the 100th reply to this idiotic POS thread that never should have been started. It pisses me off just to read the first 5 posts of this nonsensical comparison of Hurley to Baron.
You really get me with 3 Top 25 wins by Hurley compared to ZERO for 19 for Baron.
But even more that Baron did not get a single Top 25 team on his schedule for 6 years in a row. That was CLASSIC BARON!!!
This guy made it an art-form for not getting Top 25 teams on the schedule. His specialty was to pad the Won Lost record. He wanted 20+ wins - that was his drive. Even when he was under pressure from Thorr/Dooley he kept promoting his most wins in the history of the program in a 5 year span or some nonsense like that. He was all about the Win-Loss record.
Hurley may be 3-9 vs Top 25 teams but as you said the early years were tough as Baron left the cupboard empty. Billy Baron and Holton were to be the top two players and both left. Hurley really had to start all over again. But also, Hurley is much more likely to give a Top 25 opponent a struggle. Cooley gives Top 25 teams struggles almost all the time - rarely does a Cooley team get blown out.
But Baron? I remember many of those 19 Top 25 games that he lost were embarrassing blowouts. I remember some of them being on ESPN, I'd get all excited, tell family and friends to watch on TV and the game would be a total disaster.
and the post game shows were beyond belief. All Coach-speak, all the same Coach-speak. Blaming the ball pressure, blaming the refs, blaming how many games they had to play in the past 6 days, blaming the travel, saying they shot the basketball. The last season folds were classic.
Bottom line it is not even close and never well be between these two guys.