Game #10: Providence College - Thur Dec 5 @ 8:00pm ET

jcru · Unread post by **jcru** » 10 years ago

The same way I state anything around here... I observe, I comment. At least I don't comment about things I don't observe.

I don't want to rip into this kid and risk destroying his confidence before a big game. I'm sure they are taking him along slowly. He looked awesome in the recruiting videos. Potential, athleticism, the sky would seem to be the limit.

Right now, or at least in November of 2013? Not so much.

Granted I am going by watching this Arizona game and the more recent games played, but if he looked any more lost guarding his man on defense, they'd have to put him on a milk carton. He's going through the motions right now, he trails his man by a couple of steps around the court, you can forget about him coming off his man and helping out ballside. The opposing offense takes advantage of his lethargic play on the defensive end, guy flies right by him for a layup uncontested, there isn't even an acknowledgement at this point, he just shrugged his shoulders each time and took off down the other end. You don't really see that out of anyone else except MP. The other frosh is raw on D too, but he makes up for it by flying around.

Hurley noticed it right away in that Zona. He yanked him out. That has to be what is limiting his playing time. When they came out of the OT, they were in a 2-3 zone. The announcers were like "now this doesn't surprise me, a lot of teams are going to have to use a 2-3 zone against Arizona."

Can you play Hassan Martin? Yes, you can. I mean, on the other end, his upside will eventually produce. But, when they play him, they really ought to go to that zone this year, he needs to guard an area of space. It's too glaring a weakness against a top tier team, PC would have a field day exploiting that with their forwards. They play him as a 4 down low, perhaps that's the problem, he has to defend the other team's 4 on man to man, in the paint, he can't do that at this point.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 10 years ago

Agree RF1.
My guess based on past games will be 2% PC at most and they will in general be quiet
98% Pro URI Crowd as well it should be

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 10 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:" Martin in particular, they need to hide him with the zone, he cannot play man to man D. "
How do you make this blanket judgement on a kid who just turned 18 and is very athletic?

Rod, you have kind of a double standard on this. You wrote Jordan Hare off during his freshman year. Hassan is going to be a player, but I don't think anyone can deny he is not ready yet on the defensive end of the floor. If someone makes that observation, they are not saying he never will be worth a damn defensively. He just has to improve, like all freshmen.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 10 years ago

Not a double standard. I see them differently.
Thanks for staring the Jordan Hare is God stuff up again.

jcru · Unread post by **jcru** » 10 years ago

I believe in baptism by fire. If you want the kid to get better, play him as much as possible. There isn't much to lose this year.

Do I think they should play him a lot tomorrow? Probably not. But he can definitely cut his teeth against the conference.

I just think, you put this kid in a bad position where he's going to get embarrassed on the defensive end over and over and over again, that's not going to do anything positive for him or the team's chances.

Play him in different situations, but be smart about it.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 10 years ago

I keep hearing about him needing a "better handle" and working on his shot.
Just don't think anyone learns on the bench.
He has no set role on offense. Throwing him in to play center isn't helping him
gain any confidence, either. He's clearly physically overmatched at this point.
I get that there's no other options, with Aaman being out and Biruta and
Oneykaba seemingly unable to stay on the floor because of fouls.

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 10 years ago

ramster wrote:Agree RF1.
My guess based on past games will be 2% PC at most and they will in general be quiet
98% Pro URI Crowd as well it should be

It will be much greater than 2%. URI gives PC minimally 400 tickets to distribute as they see fit. 400 out of a Ryan Center capacity of 7,657 is 5.2%. PC fans likely bought single game seats when tickets went on sale to the general public. I would guess that will be several hundred more. I would therefore think about 10% of the crowd (766) will be pro Friars. Could be a bit higher if their fans really made an effort to get tickets. Based on what URI does with tickets, I however don't see any way where PC could even possibly surpass 20% and that is only doable if Friar fans bought just about every single game ticket offered to the general public which is highly improbable. One given is that the PC fans that make the trip will be vocal as they are among their most passionate and they will make far more noise than the norm for their size.

jcru · Unread post by **jcru** » 10 years ago

That's what it looks like. It's kind of like, he's a 3, they have him playing the 4, because they are overloaded at the 3 and minus bodies in the frontcourt.

He reminds, looks wise, like the wing players John Chaney used to have playing for him at Temple. They were just size upon size upon size. He should definitely improve on defense, they should get him in a position where he is guarding an area left or right of the paint to the wing.

Smokinjimit · Unread post by **Smokinjimit** » 10 years ago

Rod would you like to see Martin have Jordan Hare's numbers for last years PC game? No one has said Hare is God (only Clapton is) all anyone has ever said is that we are a better team with him. Hard to dispute that.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 10 years ago

Hurley told me Martin reminds him of Treveon Graham of VCU.
He said he'll be a nightmare matchup, eventually.
Seems a disconnect on how they view him and how they've used him.
PC was easily Hare's best and almost fluke game
of last year. If he approached those numbers even once in a while, he'd have
been a star.
It's like taking Ibn Bakari's 22 point game vs. Temple back when and pointing to that
as if it was his normal game.
I've said all I have to say about Hare. He's not a member of this team. Get over it.

Smokinjimit · Unread post by **Smokinjimit** » 10 years ago

The problem with 99% of freshman or rookies in the pros is that they have to think. When they don't have to think about it, when it is just instinctual that is when they make the next step. Until then there will be missed assignments and bone headed plays. And playing time will be limited.

As an undersized freshman on a very bad team Hare led that team in blocks, fg % and dunks. While playing 19 minutes a game. I know he isn't on this team but I wish he was.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 10 years ago

If any player on our team is going to have their best and almost fluke game I hope it is tomorrow night.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 10 years ago

Rod it seems like you are thinking of "major upside" and "not quite ripe yet" as mutually exclusive concepts. They're not, and if both apply equally to Hassan then there is no disconnect between what they think he will be and how he is being used now.

RoadyJay · Unread post by **RoadyJay** » 10 years ago

Added my perspective on the game to original post...

PC is led by their Point Guard, Bryce Cotton. Cotton led the Big East in scoring last season but as his name indicates he is definitely soft. Josh Fortune is the other starting Guard and last year he took more than half his shots from the 3-point line. Let's hope he has the misFortune of missing all of his shot attempts. LaDontae Henton averaged 13 points and 8 rebounds last year and has similar numbers to start this season. He had a double-double against us last year but this year we should be able to keep this weakling off the glass. Kadeem Batts is another 13 point and 8 rebound guy for PC. His shooting percentage is down this year. We should expect him to keep firing up some bricks Thursday night. Finally, Tyler Harris, who is the younger brother of Orlando Magic forward Tobias Harris. Harris is averaging 13 points this year but his brother clearly has all the basketball talent in the family.

PC is not a deep team with Kris Dunn being out with a shoulder injury and bad boy Brandon Austin suspended. The one option they do have off the bench is Carson Desrosiers. He is a 7-foot transfer from Wake Forest. He isn't much of a scoring threat but he is an intimidating presence on defense. I'm expecting to see a lot of awkward and dorky 7-footed play from him against us.

We should beat these guys handily. They are not deep and I expect we will wear them out and put the away in the second half by quite a good margin. The Ryan Center will be rockin' and the bums in the State House and PC rump swabs at the Projo will be in tears.

RoadyJay · Unread post by **RoadyJay** » 10 years ago

Game Notes

http://www.gorhody.com/sports/m-baskbl/ ... idence.pdf

peeps4life · Unread post by **peeps4life** » 10 years ago

theblueram wrote:A stat that can work in our favor if X gets hot:

3pt FG Defense:

PC - 245th with opponents shooting 36%

URI - 58th with opponents shooting 29.5%

i'd say kentucky shooting over 60% had a lot to do with that.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 10 years ago

I'll have what RoadyJay is smoking. I assume it's a tongue in cheek post.
At least I hope it is.
I wish we had a transfer averaging 13 ppg., who is 6'9" and can hit the 3.
I wish we had a "dorky" 7 footer like Desrosiers, who was a 4 star top 50 recruit.
I wish we had Batts and Henton.
I'd trade front courts in a heartbeat.

peeps4life · Unread post by **peeps4life** » 10 years ago

if we lose it is because bryce cotton can't score. it all comes down to your backcourt defense.

rhodyfan3 · Unread post by **rhodyfan3** » 10 years ago

Beat these guys handily? Thats bold. Real bold.

Smokinjimit · Unread post by **Smokinjimit** » 10 years ago

Here is how I see it.

Pressure Cotton with Biggie and EC the whole game full court. He is the key to that team. Wear him out so that he is a none factor at the end.
Our bigs must stay out of foul trouble. Make Batts put the ball in the floor. Don't give him that 15-18 foot jumper. It is his whole game.
Heton is completely streaky. You never know what you will get from him. Don't allow him to get going.

Must start well to get the crowd involved. We are not a team that will come back from a large deficit. Or at least we have not proven we can come back.

In the last game saw a lot of overall improvement. The team is starting to get an identity. If Mumford doesn't have a very good game we lose.

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 10 years ago

RoadyJay wrote:We should beat these guys handily. They are not deep and I expect we will wear them out and put the away in the second half by quite a good margin. The Ryan Center will be rockin' and the bums in the State House and PC rump swabs at the Projo will be in tears.

I think we now know where one of the two votes (out of 32 as of now) came from in the poll that think URI will win by 10 or more points. Seems more think differently as 23 of 32 think PC will win by 5 or more.

RoadyJay · Unread post by **RoadyJay** » 10 years ago

So serious around here!

rhodyfan3 · Unread post by **rhodyfan3** » 10 years ago

Last year Henton had 21 Points and 17 Rebounds. Batts had 23 Points and 7 Rebounds. Cotton went 3-9 with 11 points. I think we need to somehow slow down their front court for us to win this game. We cannot be dominated down low like that again.

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 10 years ago

Cotton was also extremely injured during the game last year. He was on half a leg and was questionable leading up to the game. He's been hampered by that knee ever since, but not to the extent he was last year. He is one of the best FT shooters in the country and will be playing with the ball in his hands a lot. He was 18/19 against Fairfield. URI has to be able to defend him w/o fouling, although the same could be said for most of the Friars.

theblueram · Unread post by **theblueram** » 10 years ago

peeps4life wrote:
theblueram wrote:A stat that can work in our favor if X gets hot:

3pt FG Defense:

PC - 245th with opponents shooting 36%

URI - 58th with opponents shooting 29.5%
i'd say kentucky shooting over 60% had a lot to do with that.

Fair enough Peeps.

So if I back out Kentucky from PC's totals and I back out Arizona's from Rhody's (fair is fair) here is where the teams would be ranked:

PC - 157th with opponents shooting 33.3%

URI - 36th with opponents shooting 27.6%

jcru · Unread post by **jcru** » 10 years ago

I'm guessing RoadyJay was just kidding.

Else the mods could make a new section in the ram's den called "Butler's Low Stimulus Room" where a few of us including RJ can talk all we want and not bother anyone.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 10 years ago

Matthews can't cover Cotton.
I think we'll see more of Powell in this game.
Minnis will start and Powell and TJ will be in to attempt
to wear Cotton down.
Not sure Reischel can handle Henton.
Batts will probably get Oneykaba in instant foul trouble.
I see the difference in their front court players.

spookydog · Unread post by **spookydog** » 10 years ago

rodfromcranston wrote:I don't think, in my time, we've lost four in a row to PC.

Sadly it was recent. URI lost 4 in a row 1998-2001 (all games at the Civic Center).

URI lost 6 in a row 1982-1986 (they played twice in 1983)

Between 12/5/57 & 1/11/66 URI lost 15 of 17 including two streaks of 7 straight loses.

On the bright side, between 1/15/38 - 2/28/49 URI won 20 of 21. Suck it PC!!

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 10 years ago

Six in a row in the 80's (Claude Era) was three years.
Let's get in our time machines and go back to the late 30's to late 40's.
When I first started following URI, we had a huge lead over them in
series W-Ls, but
those dry spells pushed them post us for good.

RoadyJay · Unread post by **RoadyJay** » 10 years ago

We have won 4 of the last 5 meetings against PC at the Ryan Center and we are 5-0 at home this year..

jcru · Unread post by **jcru** » 10 years ago

Well that settles it, when you put it that way, "Rhody by less than 5" get's it's 8th vote.

Who knows, maybe we can squeak out a GM type game, minus the 7-0 tear at the end.

rhodyrudder · Unread post by **rhodyrudder** » 10 years ago

spookydog wrote:
rodfromcranston wrote:I don't think, in my time, we've lost four in a row to PC.

On the bright side, between 1/15/38 - 2/28/49 URI won 20 of 21. Suck it PC!!

I don't think they count any of those games in the official record. Weren't they considered exhibitions?

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 10 years ago

rhodyrudder wrote:
spookydog wrote:
rodfromcranston wrote:I don't think, in my time, we've lost four in a row to PC.

On the bright side, between 1/15/38 - 2/28/49 URI won 20 of 21. Suck it PC!!
I don't think they count any of those games in the official record. Weren't they considered exhibitions?

Why would they do that? I don't get why they wouldn't count.

rhodyrudder · Unread post by **rhodyrudder** » 10 years ago

I'm with u tp, so I'm not going to count the last three years anymore in retaliation.
We should tell Laprey to tell the blo-jo of the new official series record in time for the presses.

Iggy1979 · Unread post by **Iggy1979** » 10 years ago

Hurley at the Mews on Martin:
They went to the tape and were thrilled with how he played defensively against GM. But he's still lost on offense. They're going to try a few simple plays for him on offense to get his confidence up.
They wanted to play him more in early games but they also wanted to make sure they won the winable games, and he wasn't really ready yet.
Hurley is still high on him but is bringing him along slowly so he continues to improve. He doesn't share the throw him in the deep end philosophy.
He wishes he didn't have to play Iffy as much, for the same reasons, but has no choice.

Gonebarongone · Unread post by **Gonebarongone** » 10 years ago

peeps4life wrote:
theblueram wrote:A stat that can work in our favor if X gets hot:

3pt FG Defense:

PC - 245th with opponents shooting 36%

URI - 58th with opponents shooting 29.5%
i'd say kentucky shooting over 60% had a lot to do with that.

There is a pretty convincing argument that 3pt% defense is a function of luck and tends to revert to the mean over time. That being said, this is the route to a Rhody win. They take 10-15 quality looks (off penetration, off set plays) from three and bury 40-50%.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

Just got back from vacation and saw the scores of the last two games.

When I saw the McNeese score I thought it was a typo.

Was the 2nd half really that bad?

The GM result was decent from a score perspective, but obviously disappointing to see us flop the last 3 minutes. I think we beat them later this season.

As for PC, a lot of things will have to go well for us to win. I think we have a chance, but don't want to see a close game at the end where a guy like Cotton could take over.

A lot of guys will be in foul trouble late, on both sides. Which key players foul out probably will decide who wins.

I'm assuming the home court helps us to some extent here also.

rhodyfan3 · Unread post by **rhodyfan3** » 10 years ago

I hear a lot of students on campus talking about going to the game. Big surprise everyone has heard about the free t-shirts which is probably one of the main reasons I'm hearing about the game.
It's not such a bad thing though, we fill the stands and hopefully the leaders of the "Ruckus" can get everyone involved and not just the first 5 rows filled with their friends. The best atmosphere I remember last year was VCU, I hope we can repeat that! The "Ruckus" has to understand the rivalry and be loud and relentless!

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 10 years ago

TruePoint wrote:
rhodyrudder wrote: I don't think they count any of those games in the official record. Weren't they considered exhibitions?
Why would they do that? I don't get why they wouldn't count.

I think he was being sarcastic. PC does not count some of the earliest meetings in the series as games. Seems Providence College played "exhibition games" versus URI in the early 1900 decades. I myself hadn't thought the term exhibition game was even used back then in athletics. Not surprisingly, these games were Friar losses. URI counts all games played in its records.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 10 years ago

KMac's basketball chat is up on Projo.
Three URI questions. Two about Powell.
Nothing earth shattering.

section(105) · Unread post by **section(105)** » 10 years ago

Pre game, pre paid Alumni Association Member reception, 6:30 anyone going?

Seawrightspostgame · Unread post by **Seawrightspostgame** » 10 years ago

I know I'm late to it, but I have seen Rod's double standard on Martin vs Hare. Only cause Rod is my MVP poster. So I haven't said anything.

I just don't understand why Martin could look so lost on the court. Hope it switches up.

Maybe Hare comes back, uses his height to clean the gutters on Rod's house, then all will be balanced.

Rhode_Island_Red · Unread post by **Rhode_Island_Red** » 10 years ago

Blue Man wrote:This will not be a "true" road game either. I'm sure 30% of the seats will be filled with black and white fans.

Hopefully the Ramettes won't be dressed in Pee-C colors.

jcru · Unread post by **jcru** » 10 years ago

You got a poster of Rod? Hare is the MVP of cleaning gutters? what?

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 10 years ago

Is there a full moon?

Rhode_Island_Red · Unread post by **Rhode_Island_Red** » 10 years ago

rhodyfan3 wrote:I hear a lot of students on campus talking about going to the game. Big surprise everyone has heard about the free t-shirts which is probably one of the main reasons I'm hearing about the game.
It's not such a bad thing though, we fill the stands and hopefully the leaders of the "Ruckus" can get everyone involved and not just the first 5 rows filled with their friends. The best atmosphere I remember last year was VCU, I hope we can repeat that! The "Ruckus" has to understand the rivalry and be loud and relentless!

Little Red is a junior at UConn, and after the women's games Geno Auriemma goes into the student section and raffles off t-shirts or something -- so many that a large portion of the students gets prizes.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

Here's some questions that are likely to get people's dander up:

Just how good is Hassan Martin? How good will he become?

Was/is he overhyped?

Just asking, because the same issues were raised with Hare last year.

Hare looked totally lost a lot of times last year, but did have some bright spots.

Jordan looked like he was going to be better, maybe a lot better, this season.

Will Hassan do the same?

Now, I'm not saying he will or won't, just asking.

Iggy1979 · Unread post by **Iggy1979** » 10 years ago

Big guys have a tougher time adjusting as freshman. I'm not worried at all. kid will be good.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

I do agree with you.

Just how good is the question.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 10 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:Here's some questions that are likely to get people's dander up:

Just how good is Hassan Martin? How good will he become?

Was/is he overhyped?

Just asking, because the same issues were raised with Hare last year.

Hare looked totally lost a lot of times last year, but did have some bright spots.

Jordan looked like he was going to be better, maybe a lot better, this season.

Will Hassan do the same?

Now, I'm not saying he will or won't, just asking.

I don't see the parallel, necessarily. Last year, as soon as the season started, we learned about Jordan's difficulty in adapting to the level of commitment necessary to practice on a Hurley squad and earn playing time. He was also VERY thin and while tall, needed to gain weight, strength and most importantly, conditioning.

Hass, on the other hand, is praised for his work ethic which Dan observed well in advance of Martin's signing of the LOI. Dan continues to praise Hass and says how he wished he could have given Martin MORE playing time in the first few games, but it wasn't possible given Hare's absence, injuries, and our mixed level of play in the 6 wins.

SO Hass comes in more physically ready, already gaining muscle since his arrival. He is already performing well in practice (not being benched for weak efforts). He just hasn't yet had enough time on the court and enough practices in the past few weeks to help close some of the major gaps in his game as a Freshman.

Dan told me that he expects Hass to blossom into a major force by his 3rd season, which means next year he will be a solid contributor. EC is ahead (as a guard usually is) and can make a big jump between his Freshman and Soph seasons to become the focal point of our offense.