Why Can't We Force More Turnovers/Steals???

[KevanBoyles]

This is a question that has me perplexed. I'm interested to hear what others think.

Did Archie look too much for shooting and not enough defense as a result of last year? After all, we are shooting well this year (with the exception of FTs, which is ironic because last year we were terrible shooters but still in the top 20% or so in FTs).

Not athletic enough? I don't see that as a problem but why can't we force TOs? Some guys do have a nose for it. (Fatts had that ability.)

Is it the pack line? I wouldn't think so because it's Archie's preferred defense and he's the one talking how TOs, steals, etc. are part of his plan.

It's also interesting when Hurley was in his early years called (and probably recruited) for defense first. Archie seems to have taken the opposite approach (but after last year who can blame him).

Can anyone enlighten me???

[Rhody15]

It's a pretty simple answer.

We are not athletic, quick, or long enough to force turnovers.

[bigappleram]

This is a question that has me perplexed. I'm interested to hear what others think.

Did Archie look too much for shooting and not enough defense as a result of last year? After all, we are shooting well this year (with the exception of FTs, which is ironic because last year we were terrible shooters but still in the top 20% or so in FTs).

Not athletic enough? I don't see that as a problem but why can't we force TOs? Some guys do have a nose for it. (Fatts had that ability.)

Is it the pack line? I wouldn't think so because it's Archie's preferred defense and he's the one talking how TOs, steals, etc. are part of his plan.

It's also interesting when Hurley was in his early years called (and probably recruited) for defense first. Archie seems to have taken the opposite approach (but after last year who can blame him).

Can anyone enlighten me???

It's more than just steals. There are plenty of teams who steal the ball at a high rate but don't play good defense. We don't block shots. We don't force charges. We don't put a ton of pressure on the ball to cause mistakes. And even moreso than turnovers is forcing bad shots. A bad shot can act like a turnover and create a transition opportunity but we don't do that either. So it's a combination of all of the above.

[section(105)]

Not enough pressure on the ball, our defense on the ball does not break down the offensive player into making mistakes, poor passes. I guess packline doesn’t produce passing lane steals?

[SGreenwell]

I think Miller prioritized offense over defense with all of his incoming recruits, which isn't the worst decision. You generally want offense over defense, if you have to pick between the two. Look at last year's team vs. this year's - We had an average D last year, and a 300+ ranked offense, and we sucked worse. However, I doubt he wanted or thought it would be so extreme.

Steals aren't the end all, be all of defense, obviously, but that in conjunction with a low turnover rate and an average foul rate (164th nationally) combine to suggest we're not putting enough pressure on opposing teams. It is the guards in particular that have been shredded on defense - I think GMU had 60+ backcourt points against us. Probably not surprisingly, House, Kortright, Montgomery and Weston all averaged at or under 1 steal per game at URI or their previous school last year. Wright and Estevez's steal rates are similar. (Wright is the highest among the guards, and he has the highest assist per 40 mark - barely - suggesting why he might get more time at point than his offensive numbers warrant.) I doubt you can project much improvement in defense from that group, except for maybe Estevez.

[Jersey77]

This is a question that has me perplexed. I'm interested to hear what others think.

Did Archie look too much for shooting and not enough defense as a result of last year? After all, we are shooting well this year (with the exception of FTs, which is ironic because last year we were terrible shooters but still in the top 20% or so in FTs).

Not athletic enough? I don't see that as a problem but why can't we force TOs? Some guys do have a nose for it. (Fatts had that ability.)

Is it the pack line? I wouldn't think so because it's Archie's preferred defense and he's the one talking how TOs, steals, etc. are part of his plan.

It's also interesting when Hurley was in his early years called (and probably recruited) for defense first. Archie seems to have taken the opposite approach (but after last year who can blame him).

Can anyone enlighten me???

It's more than just steals. There are plenty of teams who steal the ball at a high rate but don't play good defense. We don't block shots. We don't force charges. We don't put a ton of pressure on the ball to cause mistakes. And even moreso than turnovers is forcing bad shots. A bad shot can act like a turnover and create a transition opportunity but we don't do that either. So it's a combination of all of the above.

Yes I am sure a combination of several things.
Not pressuring the ball, giving them too much room, not gambling on defense with intercepting the passes, not taking charges by getting in position fast enough. It all plays a part.
Also how many times on defense have we forced their shot clock to run out?

[Jdrums#3]

This is a question that has me perplexed. I'm interested to hear what others think.

Did Archie look too much for shooting and not enough defense as a result of last year? After all, we are shooting well this year (with the exception of FTs, which is ironic because last year we were terrible shooters but still in the top 20% or so in FTs).

Not athletic enough? I don't see that as a problem but why can't we force TOs? Some guys do have a nose for it. (Fatts had that ability.)

Is it the pack line? I wouldn't think so because it's Archie's preferred defense and he's the one talking how TOs, steals, etc. are part of his plan.

It's also interesting when Hurley was in his early years called (and probably recruited) for defense first. Archie seems to have taken the opposite approach (but after last year who can blame him).

Can anyone enlighten me???

It's more than just steals. There are plenty of teams who steal the ball at a high rate but don't play good defense. We don't block shots. We don't force charges. We don't put a ton of pressure on the ball to cause mistakes. And even moreso than turnovers is forcing bad shots. A bad shot can act like a turnover and create a transition opportunity but we don't do that either. So it's a combination of all of the above.

This ^^^

[reef]

Archie said in his presser that the on ball defending has been really bad by the guards , is he referring to Luis ?

[Rhodymob05]

Archie said in his presser that the on ball defending has been really bad by the guards , is he referring to Luis ?

I’d assume so. We can make a montage of guys getting beat off the dribble. Luis is somewhat slow compared to faster A10 guards. I do recall House playing solid man defense though.

[section(105)]

I recall in the Archie presser, he commented many times on the inability to get back on defense and get set up to pressure the ball in the 1/2 court. He also said in this weeks practice there would be an emphasis on that problem.

[KevanBoyles]

This is a question that has me perplexed. I'm interested to hear what others think.

Did Archie look too much for shooting and not enough defense as a result of last year? After all, we are shooting well this year (with the exception of FTs, which is ironic because last year we were terrible shooters but still in the top 20% or so in FTs).

Not athletic enough? I don't see that as a problem but why can't we force TOs? Some guys do have a nose for it. (Fatts had that ability.)

Is it the pack line? I wouldn't think so because it's Archie's preferred defense and he's the one talking how TOs, steals, etc. are part of his plan.

It's also interesting when Hurley was in his early years called (and probably recruited) for defense first. Archie seems to have taken the opposite approach (but after last year who can blame him).

Can anyone enlighten me???

It's more than just steals. There are plenty of teams who steal the ball at a high rate but don't play good defense. We don't block shots. We don't force charges. We don't put a ton of pressure on the ball to cause mistakes. And even moreso than turnovers is forcing bad shots. A bad shot can act like a turnover and create a transition opportunity but we don't do that either. So it's a combination of all of the above.

Yes I am sure a combination of several things.
Not pressuring the ball, giving them too much room, not gambling on defense with intercepting the passes, not taking charges by getting in position fast enough. It all plays a part.
Also how many times on defense have we forced their shot clock to run out?

I agree with your what, but I'm stumped on the why. Why can't we (or won't) we do it?

[section(105)]

Maybe cause we do not make the opponent’s offense uncomfortable, we do not apply enough pressure n the play, and disrupt passing lanes to taken the out of what the want to do and wearing them and the shot clock down?

[jcru]

In football, they would have called this a "prevent" defense. Basically, give the offense every option except the long ball.

[Jersey77]

It's more than just steals. There are plenty of teams who steal the ball at a high rate but don't play good defense. We don't block shots. We don't force charges. We don't put a ton of pressure on the ball to cause mistakes. And even moreso than turnovers is forcing bad shots. A bad shot can act like a turnover and create a transition opportunity but we don't do that either. So it's a combination of all of the above.

Yes I am sure a combination of several things.
Not pressuring the ball, giving them too much room, not gambling on defense with intercepting the passes, not taking charges by getting in position fast enough. It all plays a part.
Also how many times on defense have we forced their shot clock to run out?

I agree with your what, but I'm stumped on the why. Why can't we (or won't) we do it?

Great question.

We just seem to be playing very passive and conservative on defense, not sure if that is how they are being coached.
They also don't seem to be willing to take any gambles to disrupt the offense.

I remember very early in the season when I drove up to the Fairfield game.
Yeah I was happy with the win, but I posted how lazy our team looked on defense as the game went on and they scored an amazing 56 points on us in the 2nd half. That was very disappointing to me and I hoped we would fix it.

[jcru]

Imagine: Rhode Island, home of the Fast Break. Frank Keaney, credited as it's originator and innovator. And we are second to last in transition offense.

[section(105)]

Imagine: Rhode Island, home of the Fast Break. Frank Keaney, credited as it's originator and innovator. And we are second to last in transition offense.

Who is worse?

[jcru]

idk, sisters of the poor?

[section(105)]

idk, sisters of the poor?

Love that, didn’t know they went to D1.

[SGreenwell]

One kind of odd thing about our defense - Opponents are shooting roughly 45 percent from the field and 36 percent from 3 against us. Both marks are middle of the pack when it comes to the Atlantic 10, so it's not like we're giving up a shit ton of easy lay-ups and dunks or wide open 3s. Likewise, our fouls per game and FTA per game are middle of the pack. It's pretty much that we force so few steals and not that many blocks (227th) that teams just get a couple more possessions per game against us.

[Jdrums#3]

Imagine: Rhode Island, home of the Fast Break. Frank Keaney, credited as it's originator and innovator. And we are second to last in transition offense.

It sucks, Jcru. I always envisioned the fast break being part of our culture, branding. It’s a natural, imho. As you aptly posted above: home of the fast break.

Sadly, FK and the fast break have been relegated to the dustbin of history for this current season. Hoping to see it resurrected next season.

[Billyboy78]

One kind of odd thing about our defense - Opponents are shooting roughly 45 percent from the field and 36 percent from 3 against us. Both marks are middle of the pack when it comes to the Atlantic 10, so it's not like we're giving up a shit ton of easy lay-ups and dunks or wide open 3s. Likewise, our fouls per game and FTA per game are middle of the pack. It's pretty much that we force so few steals and not that many blocks (227th) that teams just get a couple more possessions per game against us.

And it's more than a couple.

[reef]

Imagine: Rhode Island, home of the Fast Break. Frank Keaney, credited as it's originator and innovator. And we are second to last in transition offense.

Ben Hammond hopefully changes that next season the kid is a blur with that ball in his hands

[BruceW]

It seems to me that in the last three big number losses there have been an alarming number of offensive put backs. The reasons range from standing around to no movement and lack of communication. When he is out there David Green looks confident defensively while no one else does. This would definitely lend itself to losing a lead or falling further behind.

[Jersey77]

It seems to me that in the last three big number losses there have been an alarming number of offensive put backs. The reasons range from standing around to no movement and lack of communication. When he is out there David Green looks confident defensively while no one else does. This would definitely lend itself to losing a lead or falling further behind.

Unfortunately Green commits too many fouls which will probably improve with time.

[NYGFan_Section208]

Maybe cause we do not make the opponent’s offense uncomfortable, we do not apply enough pressure n the play, and disrupt passing lanes to taken the out of what the want to do and wearing them and the shot clock down?

Rhody D is the opposite...guard the worst shot in basketball and give up 3s and layups

[jcru]

tough to pressure guards for steals when you have to stay two feet behind the pacline

[Billyboy78]

It seems to me that in the last three big number losses there have been an alarming number of offensive put backs. The reasons range from standing around to no movement and lack of communication. When he is out there David Green looks confident defensively while no one else does. This would definitely lend itself to losing a lead or falling further behind.

Unfortunately Green commits too many fouls which will probably improve with time.

Archie attributed Green's foul problems to lack of conditioning, saying it's very difficult to get thrown in there in the middle of a season. While I agree that's it hard to come in in the middle of the season, Green has had foul problems his entire college career at all 3 schools. I don't remember the numbers, but somebody recently posted them here.

[Rhody Sody]

This is a question that has me perplexed. I'm interested to hear what others think.

Did Archie look too much for shooting and not enough defense as a result of last year? After all, we are shooting well this year (with the exception of FTs, which is ironic because last year we were terrible shooters but still in the top 20% or so in FTs).

Not athletic enough? I don't see that as a problem but why can't we force TOs? Some guys do have a nose for it. (Fatts had that ability.)

Is it the pack line? I wouldn't think so because it's Archie's preferred defense and he's the one talking how TOs, steals, etc. are part of his plan.

It's also interesting when Hurley was in his early years called (and probably recruited) for defense first. Archie seems to have taken the opposite approach (but after last year who can blame him).

Can anyone enlighten me???

It's more than just steals. There are plenty of teams who steal the ball at a high rate but don't play good defense. We don't block shots. We don't force charges. We don't put a ton of pressure on the ball to cause mistakes. And even moreso than turnovers is forcing bad shots. A bad shot can act like a turnover and create a transition opportunity but we don't do that either. So it's a combination of all of the above.

Thought about that the other day. I never see us attempt to take a charge. I think it was Weston during the last game who thought about taking a charge, changed his mind last second and stepped to the side to avoid contact…then was called for a foul.

[Rhody15]

They changed the block/charge rules this offseason to where now it’s almost impossible to take charges.

Maybe that’s been relayed to the team, who knows.

I doubt it, but just pointing out the significant rule change.

[Jdrums#3]

This is a question that has me perplexed. I'm interested to hear what others think.

Did Archie look too much for shooting and not enough defense as a result of last year? After all, we are shooting well this year (with the exception of FTs, which is ironic because last year we were terrible shooters but still in the top 20% or so in FTs).

Not athletic enough? I don't see that as a problem but why can't we force TOs? Some guys do have a nose for it. (Fatts had that ability.)

Is it the pack line? I wouldn't think so because it's Archie's preferred defense and he's the one talking how TOs, steals, etc. are part of his plan.

It's also interesting when Hurley was in his early years called (and probably recruited) for defense first. Archie seems to have taken the opposite approach (but after last year who can blame him).

Can anyone enlighten me???

It's more than just steals. There are plenty of teams who steal the ball at a high rate but don't play good defense. We don't block shots. We don't force charges. We don't put a ton of pressure on the ball to cause mistakes. And even moreso than turnovers is forcing bad shots. A bad shot can act like a turnover and create a transition opportunity but we don't do that either. So it's a combination of all of the above.

Thought about that the other day. I never see us attempt to take a charge. I think it was Weston during the last game who thought about taking a charge, changed his mind last second and stepped to the side to avoid contact…then was called for a foul.

Hey Sody, I looked into the block/charge rule change previously. The block charge rule change applies around the basket where the defender has to be in place before the O player plants a foot to go airborne for a shot for the defender to avoid a blocking foul.

The rule change also states that a secondary defender would have to be outside the restricted area arc in order to draw a charge.

So, the rule change should not impact our ability to draw charges away from the around the basket area. It’s not the rule that’s our problem. I think our lack of taking charges issue is a combo of issues posters above have listed.

[bigappleram]

They changed the rule bc it was being over called and anything remotely 50/50 was called a charge. But they still call it plenty and if you watch games there are plenty of guys stepping in and taking them.

Jaden House probably has a half dozen committed himself this year.

[reef]

It seems to me that in the last three big number losses there have been an alarming number of offensive put backs. The reasons range from standing around to no movement and lack of communication. When he is out there David Green looks confident defensively while no one else does. This would definitely lend itself to losing a lead or falling further behind.

Unfortunately Green commits too many fouls which will probably improve with time.

Archie attributed Green's foul problems to lack of conditioning, saying it's very difficult to get thrown in there in the middle of a season. While I agree that's it hard to come in in the middle of the season, Green has had foul problems his entire college career at all 3 schools. I don't remember the numbers, but somebody recently posted them here.

Yeah I heard that in the presser , hope DG improves there as we need him @ least 32 minutes per night !

[McRam]

A thought on Green’s fouls, coaches often react to not playing players when they get in foul trouble. They treat foul trouble with a “I must take the player out..” attitude. Too often, the player does not foul out and plays limited minutes. As an example, David Green,
Finishing with 4 fouls- Davidson 11 min, Dayton 21 min, Fordham 15 min.

[reef]

A thought on Green’s fouls, coaches often react to not playing players when they get in foul trouble. They treat foul trouble with a “I must take the player out..” attitude. Too often, the player does not foul out and plays limited minutes. As an example, David Green,
Finishing with 4 fouls- Davidson 11 min, Dayton 21 min, Fordham 15 min.

Yeah I’ve noticed with Arch if you have 2 in the 1h good chance you are not getting back in 1h