A10 Outlook for 2023-24

[PeterRamTime]

Lol St Joe's has collapsed

Billy "Jim Baron" Lange

[Jersey77]

As of right now the A10 is the only conference in the NCAA that doesn’t have a team with an overall losing record. I don’t ever remember that happening before at this time in Mid-January.

[PeterRamTime]

As of right now the A10 is the only conference in the NCAA that doesn’t have a team with an overall losing record. I don’t ever remember that happening before at this time in Mid-January.

With only one at large NCAA team

Frustrating!

Good thing we are going to beat Dayton in the A-10 title and give the conference two bids

[reef]

As of right now the A10 is the only conference in the NCAA that doesn’t have a team with an overall losing record. I don’t ever remember that happening before at this time in Mid-January.

That’s a crazy stat ! Unusual as the big conferences all have one team who usually good who’s struggling like West Virginia Michigan UCLA

[Jdrums#3]

As of right now the A10 is the only conference in the NCAA that doesn’t have a team with an overall losing record. I don’t ever remember that happening before at this time in Mid-January.

With only one at large NCAA team

Frustrating!

Good thing we are going to beat Dayton in the A-10 title and give the conference two bids

I was thinking the same, PRT, regarding only one bid. It is frustrating.

Plus, the A10 is the 8th ranked conf per the NET and we are trending towards one bid. Doubly frustrating!

Normally, the 8th ranked conference would be trending towards multiple bids, I would think ?

Sheesh! The A10 can’t catch a break.

[reef]

Not A10 related but just happened to be watching the end of Utah St and Unlv yesterday , Vegas was up 4 with 8.4 secs left and Utah St hit a 3 and there was an off the ball foul so it turned into a 5 point play and Unlv missed @ the buzzer Utah St won by 1 and it was their only lead of the game !

[PeterRamTime]

As of right now the A10 is the only conference in the NCAA that doesn’t have a team with an overall losing record. I don’t ever remember that happening before at this time in Mid-January.

With only one at large NCAA team

Frustrating!

Good thing we are going to beat Dayton in the A-10 title and give the conference two bids

I was thinking the same, PRT, regarding only one bid. It is frustrating.

Plus, the A10 is the 8th ranked conf per the NET and we are trending towards one bid. Doubly frustrating!

Normally, the 8th ranked conference would be trending towards multiple bids, I would think ?

Sheesh! The A10 can’t catch a break.

Yeah in history 8th would be good for about 3!

It was like a perfect storm of mediocre resumes

Dayton did what they had to do and that's it. They were the only team to play a good schedule and avoid a bad loss.

Everyone else found someway to totally blow it. The league has already beaten itself up to the point there's no chance of another at-large team.

Then you got teams like us and SLU that are much better than our NET indicates because we both had players injured or ineligible in the OOC.

[PeterRamTime]

Not A10 related but just happened to be watching the end of Utah St and Unlv yesterday , Vegas was up 4 with 8.4 secs left and Utah St hit a 3 and there was an off the ball foul so it turned into a 5 point play and Unlv missed @ the buzzer Utah St won by 1 and it was their only lead of the game !

Talk about a strong "mid major" conference, they have six teams with a chance at going to the tournament.

[Blue Man]

Not A10 related but just happened to be watching the end of Utah St and Unlv yesterday , Vegas was up 4 with 8.4 secs left and Utah St hit a 3 and there was an off the ball foul so it turned into a 5 point play and Unlv missed @ the buzzer Utah St won by 1 and it was their only lead of the game !

Talk about a strong "mid major" conference, they have six teams with a chance at going to the tournament.

If you have competent conference leadership, this is what happens.

We don’t, so we’ll continue our march to irrelevance.

Good job battleaxe! I’m sure that new streaming contract will attract loads of talent to want to play in our growing conference that adds more high school gyms and mid majors.

[Jersey77]

With only one at large NCAA team

Frustrating!

Good thing we are going to beat Dayton in the A-10 title and give the conference two bids

I was thinking the same, PRT, regarding only one bid. It is frustrating.

Plus, the A10 is the 8th ranked conf per the NET and we are trending towards one bid. Doubly frustrating!

Normally, the 8th ranked conference would be trending towards multiple bids, I would think ?

Sheesh! The A10 can’t catch a break.

Yeah in history 8th would be good for about 3!

It was like a perfect storm of mediocre resumes

Dayton did what they had to do and that's it. They were the only team to play a good schedule and avoid a bad loss.

Everyone else found someway to totally blow it. The league has already beaten itself up to the point there's no chance of another at-large team.

Then you got teams like us and SLU that are much better than our NET indicates because we both had players injured or ineligible in the OOC.

Don't disagree PRT.
The opportunities were there for some schools, just need to win and avoid the bad losses.
Like I said the A10 schedule will have plenty of landmines and don't see any schools even Dayton coasting their way through it.
Top to bottom an extremely difficult conference.

You can also count VCU as being much improved with the addition of Bairstow and Bam.
Loyola's best player Alston just recently returned after missing the early part of the season.
Rivera for Fordham and Hunt for Richmond also just back.

At this point Dayton needs to lose in the A10T for us to have a chance at 2 bids.

[Jersey77]

Good win for GW over win GM 75-62, they were in control most of the game.

Richmond currently on a 6-game win streak and 3-0 A10, they also have Hunt back.
Next game at Duquesne.

Right now, could the top 5 teams (no particular order) in the A10 be: Dayton, URI, Richmond, Bonnies, and GW.
Still so early and much can happen to change things, bunch of other teams to look out for, maybe the Joe's wake up, and VCU could get hot.

[ramster]

Good win for GW over win GM 75-62, they were in control most of the game.

Richmond currently on a 6-game win streak and 3-0 A10, they also have Hunt back.
Next game at Fordham which can be trouble, they also just returned Rivera.

Right now, could the top 5 teams (no particular order) in the A10 be: Dayton, URI, Richmond, Bonnies, and GW.
Still so early and much can happen to change things, bunch of other teams to look out for, maybe the Joe's wake up, and VCU could get hot.

You have only played 3 games. Way to early to predict the Top 5 as people have been trying to predict since the summer. 15 games to go plus the Tournament. A ton of basketball to be played. Enjoy the next 7 weeks. It goes by quickly.

Any team of the 15 is capable of surprising in the A10 Tournament.

Surprised you don’t have Loyola in your Top 5 as they are 3-1 with 2 of the 3 wins on the road and losing only to Richmond by 2. Loyola has won 5 of last 6 games.

[Rhody15]

Good win for GW over win GM 75-62, they were in control most of the game.

Richmond currently on a 6-game win streak and 3-0 A10, they also have Hunt back.
Next game at Fordham which can be trouble, they also just returned Rivera.

Right now, could the top 5 teams (no particular order) in the A10 be: Dayton, URI, Richmond, Bonnies, and GW.
Still so early and much can happen to change things, bunch of other teams to look out for, maybe the Joe's wake up, and VCU could get hot.

You have only played 3 games. Way to early to predict the Top 5 as people have been trying to predict since the summer. 15 games to go plus the Tournament. A ton of basketball to be played. Enjoy the next 7 weeks. It goes by quickly.

Any team of the 15 is capable of surprising in the A10 Tournament.

Surprised you don’t have Loyola in your Top 5 as they are 3-1

Someone brought up us being preseason 1 next season.

We have schedule threads for two years out.

People talking about our future recruits fitting in when they’re not even on campus.

People wanna talk about our program in future years, but it’s too early to talk about Top 5 conference teams this season? What?

Nah, not even close to being too early.

[ramster]

Good win for GW over win GM 75-62, they were in control most of the game.

Richmond currently on a 6-game win streak and 3-0 A10, they also have Hunt back.
Next game at Fordham which can be trouble, they also just returned Rivera.

Right now, could the top 5 teams (no particular order) in the A10 be: Dayton, URI, Richmond, Bonnies, and GW.
Still so early and much can happen to change things, bunch of other teams to look out for, maybe the Joe's wake up, and VCU could get hot.

You have only played 3 games. Way to early to predict the Top 5 as people have been trying to predict since the summer. 15 games to go plus the Tournament. A ton of basketball to be played. Enjoy the next 7 weeks. It goes by quickly.

Any team of the 15 is capable of surprising in the A10 Tournament.

Surprised you don’t have Loyola in your Top 5 as they are 3-1

Someone brought up us being preseason 1 next season.

We have schedule threads for two years out.

People talking about our future recruits fitting in when they’re not even on campus.

People wanna talk about our program in future years, but it’s too early to talk about Top 5 conference teams this season? What?

Nah, not even close to being too early.

So who are your Top 5 Rhody 15 for the Conference final standings?
Who wins the A10 Conference?
Who wins the A10 Tournament?
Who are your bottom 5 in A10 Conference?
I’m curious.

[NYGFan_Section208]

Good win for GW over win GM 75-62, they were in control most of the game.

Richmond currently on a 6-game win streak and 3-0 A10, they also have Hunt back.
Next game at Fordham which can be trouble, they also just returned Rivera.

Right now, could the top 5 teams (no particular order) in the A10 be: Dayton, URI, Richmond, Bonnies, and GW.
Still so early and much can happen to change things, bunch of other teams to look out for, maybe the Joe's wake up, and VCU could get hot.

You have only played 3 games. Way to early to predict the Top 5 as people have been trying to predict since the summer. 15 games to go plus the Tournament. A ton of basketball to be played. Enjoy the next 7 weeks. It goes by quickly.

Any team of the 15 is capable of surprising in the A10 Tournament.

Surprised you don’t have Loyola in your Top 5 as they are 3-1

Someone brought up us being preseason 1 next season.

We have schedule threads for two years out.

People talking about our future recruits fitting in when they’re not even on campus.

People wanna talk about our program in future years, but it’s too early to talk about Top 5 conference teams this season? What?

Nah, not even close to being too early.

But we really won't have good insight into next year until this year's NCAAT RamRun is done.

[ramster]

You have only played 3 games. Way to early to predict the Top 5 as people have been trying to predict since the summer. 15 games to go plus the Tournament. A ton of basketball to be played. Enjoy the next 7 weeks. It goes by quickly.

Any team of the 15 is capable of surprising in the A10 Tournament.

Surprised you don’t have Loyola in your Top 5 as they are 3-1

Someone brought up us being preseason 1 next season.

We have schedule threads for two years out.

People talking about our future recruits fitting in when they’re not even on campus.

People wanna talk about our program in future years, but it’s too early to talk about Top 5 conference teams this season? What?

Nah, not even close to being too early.

But we really won't have good insight into next year until this year's NCAAT RamRun is done.

How about next year’s starting 5 predictions? The rotation?

[KeaneyTheChemist]

It wasn’t too long ago that winning 2/3 of your games and losing the A10 tournament championship game meant you were a lock for the tourney. Look at the 22-23 Dayton team as an example. They only got NIT despite their overall record and performance in the A10 tournament.

The precipitous decline in respect for mid-major conferences like the A10 is concerning. This year’s teams are performing way better than usual by mid-January (in terms of overall record) and it’s hard to predict so far who will win the A10 tourney. Not to mention every time has a 0.500 record or above and we’ve recently added a new team. We need to be seen as a conference of competitors again.

[Jersey77]

Good win for GW over win GM 75-62, they were in control most of the game.

Richmond currently on a 6-game win streak and 3-0 A10, they also have Hunt back.
Next game at Duquesne.

Right now, could the top 5 teams (no particular order) in the A10 be: Dayton, URI, Richmond, Bonnies, and GW.
Still so early and much can happen to change things, bunch of other teams to look out for, maybe the Joe's wake up, and VCU could get hot.

You have only played 3 games. Way to early to predict the Top 5 as people have been trying to predict since the summer. 15 games to go plus the Tournament. A ton of basketball to be played. Enjoy the next 7 weeks. It goes by quickly.

Any team of the 15 is capable of surprising in the A10 Tournament.

Surprised you don’t have Loyola in your Top 5 as they are 3-1 with 2 of the 3 wins on the road and losing only to Richmond by 2. Loyola has won 5 of last 6 games.

Ramster, it is too early to have real good idea as I was only speculating and having a little fun with it.
Yes, Loyola especially now with Alston back will be a tough out.

It is interesting to see how our conference games have started out.
We are probably the biggest surprise so far and I love it.

[NYGFan_Section208]

Someone brought up us being preseason 1 next season.

We have schedule threads for two years out.

People talking about our future recruits fitting in when they’re not even on campus.

People wanna talk about our program in future years, but it’s too early to talk about Top 5 conference teams this season? What?

Nah, not even close to being too early.

But we really won't have good insight into next year until this year's NCAAT RamRun is done.

How about next year’s starting 5 predictions? The rotation?

I don't think you can til this year's run is done. Depending on how things shake out at the end of it, the GM will know what pieces need to be signed.
It'll be interesting to see what happens following this year's deep run. Things could look dramatically different depending on how they play in mid-March. For now, all we can do is focus on these guys that are here, playing better and better all the time.

[Blue Man]

It wasn’t too long ago that winning 2/3 of your games and losing the A10 tournament championship game meant you were a lock for the tourney. Look at the 22-23 Dayton team as an example. They only got NIT despite their overall record and performance in the A10 tournament.

The precipitous decline in respect for mid-major conferences like the A10 is concerning. This year’s teams are performing way better than usual by mid-January (in terms of overall record) and it’s hard to predict so far who will win the A10 tourney. Not to mention every time has a 0.500 record or above and we’ve recently added a new team. We need to be seen as a conference of competitors again.

I don't think it's a decline for all mid-majors - the Mountain West seemed to eat up the extra bids we used to get. They got 4 last year.

WCC and American got 2.

The A10's problems are unique to the A10 as we have gone from a position of strength 10 years ago to losing Xavier, Temple, and Butler (12 NCAAT, 1 Elite 8, 4 Sweet 16, 13 wins) and replacing them with Davidson, George Mason, and Loyola (3 NCAAT, 1 win).

Worse - the programs added have been more or less NET drains on the conference. Offering bad games and worse, being just good enough to give conference NCAA hopefuls a bad loss on the schedule.

The A10's problem's are the A10's alone. There have been plenty of opportunities to be a 3 bid league, yet even outside of conference play, the league standard bearers straight up refuse to win big games.

If you want to zoom out - you can see that maybe some good players don't want to play in a conference that features high school gyms and streaming-only watch options. Maybe, just maybe, if our commissioner had any balls or vision, we'd have figured out an inventive way to shed the dead weight of this conference or at least build scheduling to prevent them from impacting our at-large hopefuls.

[KevanBoyles]

It ain't over t'll it's over. Was it over when the German's bombed Pearl Harbor????

[Jersey77]

It wasn’t too long ago that winning 2/3 of your games and losing the A10 tournament championship game meant you were a lock for the tourney. Look at the 22-23 Dayton team as an example. They only got NIT despite their overall record and performance in the A10 tournament.

The precipitous decline in respect for mid-major conferences like the A10 is concerning. This year’s teams are performing way better than usual by mid-January (in terms of overall record) and it’s hard to predict so far who will win the A10 tourney. Not to mention every time has a 0.500 record or above and we’ve recently added a new team. We need to be seen as a conference of competitors again.

I don't think it's a decline for all mid-majors - the Mountain West seemed to eat up the extra bids we used to get. They got 4 last year.

WCC and American got 2.

The A10's problems are unique to the A10 as we have gone from a position of strength 10 years ago to losing Xavier, Temple, and Butler (12 NCAAT, 1 Elite 8, 4 Sweet 16, 13 wins) and replacing them with Davidson, George Mason, and Loyola (3 NCAAT, 1 win).

Worse - the programs added have been more or less NET drains on the conference. Offering bad games and worse, being just good enough to give conference NCAA hopefuls a bad loss on the schedule.

The A10's problem's are the A10's alone. There have been plenty of opportunities to be a 3 bid league, yet even outside of conference play, the league standard bearers straight up refuse to win big games.

If you want to zoom out - you can see that maybe some good players don't want to play in a conference that features high school gyms and streaming-only watch options. Maybe, just maybe, if our commissioner had any balls or vision, we'd have figured out an inventive way to shed the dead weight of this conference or at least build scheduling to prevent them from impacting our at-large hopefuls.

Hard to compare us to the MWC and the AAC because of the football revenue.
Yet we are currently NET ranked #8.
Top to bottom we are stronger than the AAC and WCC.

As far as HS gyms FAU went to the Final Four and the Baldwin Arena only seats 2,900.
They were also nationally ranked this season, so they must have attracted some talent.

In 2020 Toppin was NPOY and 1st team All-American, so I think our conference is capable of getting good recruits, but again with NIL it may be more difficult.

Scheduling is tougher with the P5 expansion.
I would rather play teams at the bottom of our conference (which are actually pretty good) versus some of the schools we were forced to schedule.

Look in 2014 we had 6 schools get bids: UMass, SLU, GW, St. Joe's, Dayton, and VCU.
All those schools are still in the A10
The issue with earning bids lies with the individual programs, they must win, period.

[Rhody15]

It wasn’t too long ago that winning 2/3 of your games and losing the A10 tournament championship game meant you were a lock for the tourney. Look at the 22-23 Dayton team as an example. They only got NIT despite their overall record and performance in the A10 tournament.

The precipitous decline in respect for mid-major conferences like the A10 is concerning. This year’s teams are performing way better than usual by mid-January (in terms of overall record) and it’s hard to predict so far who will win the A10 tourney. Not to mention every time has a 0.500 record or above and we’ve recently added a new team. We need to be seen as a conference of competitors again.

I don't think it's a decline for all mid-majors - the Mountain West seemed to eat up the extra bids we used to get. They got 4 last year.

WCC and American got 2.

The A10's problems are unique to the A10 as we have gone from a position of strength 10 years ago to losing Xavier, Temple, and Butler (12 NCAAT, 1 Elite 8, 4 Sweet 16, 13 wins) and replacing them with Davidson, George Mason, and Loyola (3 NCAAT, 1 win).

Worse - the programs added have been more or less NET drains on the conference. Offering bad games and worse, being just good enough to give conference NCAA hopefuls a bad loss on the schedule.

The A10's problem's are the A10's alone. There have been plenty of opportunities to be a 3 bid league, yet even outside of conference play, the league standard bearers straight up refuse to win big games.

If you want to zoom out - you can see that maybe some good players don't want to play in a conference that features high school gyms and streaming-only watch options. Maybe, just maybe, if our commissioner had any balls or vision, we'd have figured out an inventive way to shed the dead weight of this conference or at least build scheduling to prevent them from impacting our at-large hopefuls.

Hard to compare us to the MWC and the AAC because of the football revenue.
Yet we are currently NET ranked #8.
Top to bottom we are stronger than the AAC and WCC.

As far as HS gyms FAU went to the Final Four and the Baldwin Arena only seats 2,900.
They were also nationally ranked this season, so they must have attracted some talent.

In 2020 Toppin was NPOY and 1st team All-American, so I think our conference is capable of getting good recruits, but again with NIL it may be more difficult.

Scheduling is tougher with the P5 expansion.
I would rather play teams at the bottom of our conference (which are actually pretty good) versus some of the schools we were forced to schedule.

Look in 2014 we had 6 schools get bids: UMass, SLU, GW, St. Joe's, Dayton, and VCU.
All those schools are still in the A10
The issue with earning bids lies with the individual programs, they must win, period.

Teams at the bottom of the A10 are not "actually pretty good." You must have a very low barometer of what "pretty good" entails.

That is a wild, wild statement.

[Jersey77]

I don't think it's a decline for all mid-majors - the Mountain West seemed to eat up the extra bids we used to get. They got 4 last year.

WCC and American got 2.

The A10's problems are unique to the A10 as we have gone from a position of strength 10 years ago to losing Xavier, Temple, and Butler (12 NCAAT, 1 Elite 8, 4 Sweet 16, 13 wins) and replacing them with Davidson, George Mason, and Loyola (3 NCAAT, 1 win).

Worse - the programs added have been more or less NET drains on the conference. Offering bad games and worse, being just good enough to give conference NCAA hopefuls a bad loss on the schedule.

The A10's problem's are the A10's alone. There have been plenty of opportunities to be a 3 bid league, yet even outside of conference play, the league standard bearers straight up refuse to win big games.

If you want to zoom out - you can see that maybe some good players don't want to play in a conference that features high school gyms and streaming-only watch options. Maybe, just maybe, if our commissioner had any balls or vision, we'd have figured out an inventive way to shed the dead weight of this conference or at least build scheduling to prevent them from impacting our at-large hopefuls.

Hard to compare us to the MWC and the AAC because of the football revenue.
Yet we are currently NET ranked #8.
Top to bottom we are stronger than the AAC and WCC.

As far as HS gyms FAU went to the Final Four and the Baldwin Arena only seats 2,900.
They were also nationally ranked this season, so they must have attracted some talent.

In 2020 Toppin was NPOY and 1st team All-American, so I think our conference is capable of getting good recruits, but again with NIL it may be more difficult.

Scheduling is tougher with the P5 expansion.
I would rather play teams at the bottom of our conference (which are actually pretty good) versus some of the schools we were forced to schedule.

Look in 2014 we had 6 schools get bids: UMass, SLU, GW, St. Joe's, Dayton, and VCU.
All those schools are still in the A10
The issue with earning bids lies with the individual programs, they must win, period.

Teams at the bottom of the A10 are not "actually pretty good." You must have a very low barometer of what "pretty good" entails.

That is a wild, wild statement.

Maybe a little too strong but I was using them as a comparison. Teams like La Salle, Davidson, St. Joe's, Duquesne, Fordham, are far from terrible and much better than some of the teams we have scheduled along with teams other A10 schools have played.

[Rhody15]

Hard to compare us to the MWC and the AAC because of the football revenue.
Yet we are currently NET ranked #8.
Top to bottom we are stronger than the AAC and WCC.

As far as HS gyms FAU went to the Final Four and the Baldwin Arena only seats 2,900.
They were also nationally ranked this season, so they must have attracted some talent.

In 2020 Toppin was NPOY and 1st team All-American, so I think our conference is capable of getting good recruits, but again with NIL it may be more difficult.

Scheduling is tougher with the P5 expansion.
I would rather play teams at the bottom of our conference (which are actually pretty good) versus some of the schools we were forced to schedule.

Look in 2014 we had 6 schools get bids: UMass, SLU, GW, St. Joe's, Dayton, and VCU.
All those schools are still in the A10
The issue with earning bids lies with the individual programs, they must win, period.

Teams at the bottom of the A10 are not "actually pretty good." You must have a very low barometer of what "pretty good" entails.

That is a wild, wild statement.

Pretty good may be a little too strong, but teams like La Salle, Davidson, St. Joe's, Duquesne, Fordham, are far from terrible and much better than some of the teams we have scheduled along with teams other A10 schools have played.

Historically speaking the bottom of the A10 is dog shit.

Even this year, La Salle blows, Davidson blows, Duquesne never can get out of their own way.

I do expect St Joe's to get back middle of the pack though.

[Blue Man]

It wasn’t too long ago that winning 2/3 of your games and losing the A10 tournament championship game meant you were a lock for the tourney. Look at the 22-23 Dayton team as an example. They only got NIT despite their overall record and performance in the A10 tournament.

The precipitous decline in respect for mid-major conferences like the A10 is concerning. This year’s teams are performing way better than usual by mid-January (in terms of overall record) and it’s hard to predict so far who will win the A10 tourney. Not to mention every time has a 0.500 record or above and we’ve recently added a new team. We need to be seen as a conference of competitors again.

I don't think it's a decline for all mid-majors - the Mountain West seemed to eat up the extra bids we used to get. They got 4 last year.

WCC and American got 2.

The A10's problems are unique to the A10 as we have gone from a position of strength 10 years ago to losing Xavier, Temple, and Butler (12 NCAAT, 1 Elite 8, 4 Sweet 16, 13 wins) and replacing them with Davidson, George Mason, and Loyola (3 NCAAT, 1 win).

Worse - the programs added have been more or less NET drains on the conference. Offering bad games and worse, being just good enough to give conference NCAA hopefuls a bad loss on the schedule.

The A10's problem's are the A10's alone. There have been plenty of opportunities to be a 3 bid league, yet even outside of conference play, the league standard bearers straight up refuse to win big games.

If you want to zoom out - you can see that maybe some good players don't want to play in a conference that features high school gyms and streaming-only watch options. Maybe, just maybe, if our commissioner had any balls or vision, we'd have figured out an inventive way to shed the dead weight of this conference or at least build scheduling to prevent them from impacting our at-large hopefuls.

Hard to compare us to the MWC and the AAC because of the football revenue.
Yet we are currently NET ranked #8.
Top to bottom we are stronger than the AAC and WCC.

As far as HS gyms FAU went to the Final Four and the Baldwin Arena only seats 2,900.
They were also nationally ranked this season, so they must have attracted some talent.

In 2020 Toppin was NPOY and 1st team All-American, so I think our conference is capable of getting good recruits, but again with NIL it may be more difficult.

Scheduling is tougher with the P5 expansion.
I would rather play teams at the bottom of our conference (which are actually pretty good) versus some of the schools we were forced to schedule.

Look in 2014 we had 6 schools get bids: UMass, SLU, GW, St. Joe's, Dayton, and VCU.
All those schools are still in the A10
The issue with earning bids lies with the individual programs, they must win, period.

Yeah those 2014 schools still had players that were recruited to play in a top tier conference with Butler and Xavier. Once those players left, the incoming recruits were recruits coming for a lesser conference.

Slowly, the best coaches who you had in the conference (Shaka, Hurley, Archie) started to see the writing on the wall and bolted for places they felt they could win.

And yes, if every program could go 28-3 year in year out, that'd be awesome. But that's not reality. The conferences that do the best come Selection Sunday have a top to bottom conference that doesn't present a majority Q3/Q4 games. Here's a look at how we've done there for Q4 (160+) and Q3 (road 135+) teams:

2023 - 8 Q4, 3 Q3
2022 - 6 Q4, 1 Q3
2021 - 4 Q4, 2 Q3

And the more of those teams you have, the more you create. It's like a disease. And it's always THE SAME PROGRAMS at the bottom.

Over the past few years, the conference is averaging a schedule where 50% of the games are bad games. It's an opportunity for a bad loss and even the win hurts. It's why we keep having teams on the wrong side of the bubble, and why the seeding keeps getting worse.

The worse the seeding, the harder to win games, and on and on the cycle goes.

I'm not sure what to make of the comment about playing our bad teams, who are most definitely bad. Everyone schedules bad teams in the OOC, there are more bad than good in college basketball. But usually if you play in a "good" conference, than your conference games should be better.

But if the A10 were a 10 or 12 team league instead of 15-16, the % of bad teams that can tank our good teams' rankings goes down substantially.

[Jersey77]

I don't think it's a decline for all mid-majors - the Mountain West seemed to eat up the extra bids we used to get. They got 4 last year.

WCC and American got 2.

The A10's problems are unique to the A10 as we have gone from a position of strength 10 years ago to losing Xavier, Temple, and Butler (12 NCAAT, 1 Elite 8, 4 Sweet 16, 13 wins) and replacing them with Davidson, George Mason, and Loyola (3 NCAAT, 1 win).

Worse - the programs added have been more or less NET drains on the conference. Offering bad games and worse, being just good enough to give conference NCAA hopefuls a bad loss on the schedule.

The A10's problem's are the A10's alone. There have been plenty of opportunities to be a 3 bid league, yet even outside of conference play, the league standard bearers straight up refuse to win big games.

If you want to zoom out - you can see that maybe some good players don't want to play in a conference that features high school gyms and streaming-only watch options. Maybe, just maybe, if our commissioner had any balls or vision, we'd have figured out an inventive way to shed the dead weight of this conference or at least build scheduling to prevent them from impacting our at-large hopefuls.

Hard to compare us to the MWC and the AAC because of the football revenue.
Yet we are currently NET ranked #8.
Top to bottom we are stronger than the AAC and WCC.

As far as HS gyms FAU went to the Final Four and the Baldwin Arena only seats 2,900.
They were also nationally ranked this season, so they must have attracted some talent.

In 2020 Toppin was NPOY and 1st team All-American, so I think our conference is capable of getting good recruits, but again with NIL it may be more difficult.

Scheduling is tougher with the P5 expansion.
I would rather play teams at the bottom of our conference (which are actually pretty good) versus some of the schools we were forced to schedule.

Look in 2014 we had 6 schools get bids: UMass, SLU, GW, St. Joe's, Dayton, and VCU.
All those schools are still in the A10
The issue with earning bids lies with the individual programs, they must win, period.

Yeah those 2014 schools still had players that were recruited to play in a top tier conference with Butler and Xavier. Once those players left, the incoming recruits were recruits coming for a lesser conference.

Slowly, the best coaches who you had in the conference (Shaka, Hurley, Archie) started to see the writing on the wall and bolted for places they felt they could win.

And yes, if every program could go 28-3 year in year out, that'd be awesome. But that's not reality. The conferences that do the best come Selection Sunday have a top to bottom conference that doesn't present a majority Q3/Q4 games. Here's a look at how we've done there for Q4 (160+) and Q3 (road 135+) teams:

2023 - 8 Q4, 3 Q3
2022 - 6 Q4, 1 Q3
2021 - 4 Q4, 2 Q3

And the more of those teams you have, the more you create. It's like a disease. And it's always THE SAME PROGRAMS at the bottom.

Over the past few years, the conference is averaging a schedule where 50% of the games are bad games. It's an opportunity for a bad loss and even the win hurts. It's why we keep having teams on the wrong side of the bubble, and why the seeding keeps getting worse.

The worse the seeding, the harder to win games, and on and on the cycle goes.

I'm not sure what to make of the comment about playing our bad teams, who are most definitely bad. Everyone schedules bad teams in the OOC, there are more bad than good in college basketball. But usually if you play in a "good" conference, than your conference games should be better.

But if the A10 were a 10 or 12 team league instead of 15-16, the % of bad teams that can tank our good teams' rankings goes down substantially.

There is no way the A10 council will vote to trim the league, not even sure under the contract they can even do that.
The only thing would be is to form a new conference and I don't see that happening.

So here we are, the member schools had wanted the league to expand to 15 and felt that Loyola was the best fit.

I think it is still possible to bring in good recruits and add some quality players in the portal.

I haven't given up on us or our conference.

[Jersey77]

Teams at the bottom of the A10 are not "actually pretty good." You must have a very low barometer of what "pretty good" entails.

That is a wild, wild statement.

Pretty good may be a little too strong, but teams like La Salle, Davidson, St. Joe's, Duquesne, Fordham, are far from terrible and much better than some of the teams we have scheduled along with teams other A10 schools have played.

Historically speaking the bottom of the A10 is dog shit.

Even this year, La Salle blows, Davidson blows, Duquesne never can get out of their own way.

I do expect St Joe's to get back middle of the pack though.

Unfortunately, La Salle has been without Anwar Gill for all their conference games.
I think Davidson and Duquesne are capable of upsetting some teams along the way.

[Jdrums#3]

It wasn’t too long ago that winning 2/3 of your games and losing the A10 tournament championship game meant you were a lock for the tourney. Look at the 22-23 Dayton team as an example. They only got NIT despite their overall record and performance in the A10 tournament.

The precipitous decline in respect for mid-major conferences like the A10 is concerning. This year’s teams are performing way better than usual by mid-January (in terms of overall record) and it’s hard to predict so far who will win the A10 tourney. Not to mention every time has a 0.500 record or above and we’ve recently added a new team. We need to be seen as a conference of competitors again.

I don't think it's a decline for all mid-majors - the Mountain West seemed to eat up the extra bids we used to get. They got 4 last year.

WCC and American got 2.

The A10's problems are unique to the A10 as we have gone from a position of strength 10 years ago to losing Xavier, Temple, and Butler (12 NCAAT, 1 Elite 8, 4 Sweet 16, 13 wins) and replacing them with Davidson, George Mason, and Loyola (3 NCAAT, 1 win).

Worse - the programs added have been more or less NET drains on the conference. Offering bad games and worse, being just good enough to give conference NCAA hopefuls a bad loss on the schedule.

The A10's problem's are the A10's alone. There have been plenty of opportunities to be a 3 bid league, yet even outside of conference play, the league standard bearers straight up refuse to win big games.

If you want to zoom out - you can see that maybe some good players don't want to play in a conference that features high school gyms and streaming-only watch options. Maybe, just maybe, if our commissioner had any balls or vision, we'd have figured out an inventive way to shed the dead weight of this conference or at least build scheduling to prevent them from impacting our at-large hopefuls.

Hard to compare us to the MWC and the AAC because of the football revenue.
Yet we are currently NET ranked #8.
Top to bottom we are stronger than the AAC and WCC.

As far as HS gyms FAU went to the Final Four and the Baldwin Arena only seats 2,900.
They were also nationally ranked this season, so they must have attracted some talent.

In 2020 Toppin was NPOY and 1st team All-American, so I think our conference is capable of getting good recruits, but again with NIL it may be more difficult.

Scheduling is tougher with the P5 expansion.
I would rather play teams at the bottom of our conference (which are actually pretty good) versus some of the schools we were forced to schedule.

Look in 2014 we had 6 schools get bids: UMass, SLU, GW, St. Joe's, Dayton, and VCU.
All those schools are still in the A10
The issue with earning bids lies with the individual programs, they must win, period.

Jersey, I get what you are trying to convey in your first sentence above regarding football revenue. But conversely, is the football revenue (profit if the MWC and AAC are generating a profit) being pumped into basketball versus being pumped mostly back into football with any leftover going to all other sports including basketball ?

Is the spending gap in mbb between the MWC/AAC for example, and the A10 that large that the A10 can’t compete with those two conferences in mbb ?

I don’t know but I would guess that most of the monies are being pumped back into football based on footballs popularity and its ability to generate more revenue. And that the spending gap for mbb between the conferences isn’t huge. Further, if the A10 were a smaller and more committed mbb conference that the A10 would be even closer to the MWC/AAC in spending regarding mbb.

I haven’t done a deep dive on the mbb spending for the A10 vs the MWC/AAC however, therefore I could be wrong.

Good off day discussion. Many good points being made on both sides.

ETA: Fwiw, I did a quick mbb programs budget search for the A10 and MWC. As of 2019 (per Saluki-insider,com) the average A10 mbb budget was $4.7 mil. In 2023 (per NSN Nevada Sports Net) the MWC mbb budgets mainly ranged from $3.5 - $5.5 mil with SDSU being a MWC outlier at $7.2 mil in 2023. In 2022 (per three man weave site) the American (AAC) mbb programs budgets averaged $5.5 mil per school.

[Jersey77]

Dayton at this point is holding true as the best team in the conference and clear-cut favorite.

Both the Bonnies and St. Joes have under achieved so far but are capable of going on a run.

Richmond has been a bit of a surprise.
Their frontcourt is solid with Quinn and Bigelow.
They have an alpha player in King, and with transfer Hunt now back from injury, he gives them a good backcourt duo.
Bailey at wing is a veteran and has played well.
They do have depth at all positions with 10 players getting double-digit minutes.

There are several other teams that you can make a case for, probably most notably VCU now, who can all move into that top tier.

I am still trying to comprehend what just happened to us, how we can go from playing pretty well with a nice run to looking so bad in such a short amount of time.

[theblueram]

Obviously the A10 is a 1 bid league unless Dayton loses in the tournament. This is not going well for the x number of years in a row.

[Jersey77]

We all know about Dayton.

Richmond has now won 9 straight and 6-0 A10.

Like I previously posted;
The impact of All-Conference transfer guards Hunt and especially King have been huge.
The frontcourt of (C) Quinn and (F) Bigelow with Bailey at wing are all solid.
They arguably have one of the best starting 5's in the A10.

Huge game on Saturday where Dayton visits the Robins Center in Richmond.

Chris Mooney has redeemed himself, going to the round of 32 NCAAT in 2022.
And this season they are one of the best teams in the conference.

[reef]

We all know about Dayton.

Richmond has now won 9 straight and 6-0 A10.

Like I previously posted;
The impact of All-Conference transfer guards Hunt and especially King have been huge.
The frontcourt of (C) Quinn and (F) Bigelow with Bailey at wing are all solid.
They arguably have one of the best starting 5's in the A10.

Huge game on Saturday where Dayton visits the Robins Center in Richmond.

Chris Mooney has redeemed himself, going to the round of 32 NCAAT in 2022.
And this season they are one of the best teams in the conference.

Sure did 77 ! This is going to be the big early season battle of the undefeateds looking forward to it !

[RF1]

Take a look at this quarter scoring margin graphic for conference teams in A-10 play. It somewhat correlates to the NET rankings, especially at the bottom. URI is falling behind big in each of the first three quarters and barely ahead in the fourth quarter (keep in mind that SBU and UD pulled their starters).

[RF1]

The preseason poll that picked URI for 14th place is now being realized in the NET rankings. After the loss yesterday to GMU, URI now has an NET rank of #205. The only A-10 team presently with a worse rank is St Louis at #249. LaSalle, which had been behind Rhody for several weeks, jumped ahead to #202 after winning at GW. Just three league teams now have overall losing records - SLU, URI, and Fordham.

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketbal ... t-rankings

[section(105)]

The preseason poll that picked URI for 14th place is now being realized in the NET rankings. After the loss yesterday to GMU, URI now has an NET rank of #205. The only A-10 team presently with a worse rank is St Louis at #249. LaSalle, which had been behind Rhody for several weeks, jumped ahead to #202 after winning at GW. Just three league teams now have overall losing records - SLU, URI, and Fordham.

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketbal ... t-rankings

Ugh

[Jersey77]

The preseason poll that picked URI for 14th place is now being realized in the NET rankings. After the loss yesterday to GMU, URI now has an NET rank of #205. The only A-10 team presently with a worse rank is St Louis at #249. LaSalle, which had been behind Rhody for several weeks, jumped ahead to #202 after winning at GW. Just three league teams now have overall losing records - SLU, URI, and Fordham.

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketbal ... t-rankings

Ugh

However, the NET (which I am not a fan of) doesn't determine the A10 standings.
Still have 11 games left, much can still happen.

Hopefully Archie and company figures it out, especially on D.

[ramster]

The preseason poll that picked URI for 14th place is now being realized in the NET rankings. After the loss yesterday to GMU, URI now has an NET rank of #205. The only A-10 team presently with a worse rank is St Louis at #249. LaSalle, which had been behind Rhody for several weeks, jumped ahead to #202 after winning at GW. Just three league teams now have overall losing records - SLU, URI, and Fordham.

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketbal ... t-rankings

Ugh

However, the NET (which I am not a fan of) doesn't determine the A10 standings.
Still have 11 games left, much can still happen.

Hopefully Archie and company figures it out, especially on D.

As you know 77 I have never been a fan of the NET nor the fact the NCAA created it AND manages it

We talk a lot about number of bids and deeding for the NCAA Tournament
Look how it is on RPI. Not judging which is better, simply showing how much different it used to be when the A10 was viewed by the NCAA Selection Committee.

NET / RPI
Dayton 15 / 3
Richmond 69 / 37
George Mason 82 / 42

With RPI A10 has 3 very legit NCAA bid contenders. With NET only 1 in Dayton

So how much worse is the A10 from 6 years ago due to actual performance and how much worse because rating system changed?

Not saying 1 system is more correct or better just showing the factual differences. This season is not an exception. Similar since inception of the NET.

[Jersey77]

Ugh

However, the NET (which I am not a fan of) doesn't determine the A10 standings.
Still have 11 games left, much can still happen.

Hopefully Archie and company figures it out, especially on D.

As you know 77 I have never been a fan of the NET nor the fact the NCAA created it AND manages it

We talk a lot about number of bids and deeding for the NCAA Tournament
Look how it is on RPI. Not judging which is better, simply showing how much different it used to be when the A10 was viewed by the NCAA Selection Committee.

NET / RPI
Dayton 15 / 3
Richmond 69 / 37
George Mason 82 / 42

With RPI A10 has 3 very legit NCAA bid contenders. With NET only 1 in Dayton

So how much worse is the A10 from 6 years ago due to actual performance and how much worse because rating system changed?

Not saying 1 system is more correct or better just showing the factual differences. This season is not an exception. Similar since inception of the NET.


IMG_2078.png

Yep, the NET has not done the A10 any favors.

[RF1]

The change from the RPI to the NET with a big emphasis on the Quads performance is a big reason why the A-10 is getting less NCAA bids. It is however one of several factors. A-10 teams playing less power teams in the OOC and registering fewer wins against such teams hurts. The introduction of stipends, NIL, and relaxation of transfer rules is also a big reason for the decline as the A-10 is no longer getting and keeping players of the same skill set of the past.

[Jersey77]

The change from the RPI to the NET with a big emphasis on the Quads performance is a big reason why the A-10 is getting less NCAA bids. It is however one of several factors. A-10 teams playing less power teams in the OOC and registering fewer wins against such teams hurts. The introduction of stipends, NIL, and relaxation of transfer rules is also a big reason for the decline as the A-10 is no longer getting and keeping players of the skill set of the past.

Much of OOC scheduling has become more difficult with the power conference realignment, also not benefitting us.

[NYGFan_Section208]

Ugh

However, the NET (which I am not a fan of) doesn't determine the A10 standings.
Still have 11 games left, much can still happen.

Hopefully Archie and company figures it out, especially on D.

As you know 77 I have never been a fan of the NET nor the fact the NCAA created it AND manages it

We talk a lot about number of bids and deeding for the NCAA Tournament
Look how it is on RPI. Not judging which is better, simply showing how much different it used to be when the A10 was viewed by the NCAA Selection Committee.

NET / RPI
Dayton 15 / 3
Richmond 69 / 37
George Mason 82 / 42

With RPI A10 has 3 very legit NCAA bid contenders. With NET only 1 in Dayton

So how much worse is the A10 from 6 years ago due to actual performance and how much worse because rating system changed?

Not saying 1 system is more correct or better just showing the factual differences. This season is not an exception. Similar since inception of the NET.


IMG_2078.png

So...does that mean, according to RPI, that Dayton is the 3rd best team in the country? 'cuz, I'm not buying that...maybe that's why they don't use it any more?

[ramster]

However, the NET (which I am not a fan of) doesn't determine the A10 standings.
Still have 11 games left, much can still happen.

Hopefully Archie and company figures it out, especially on D.

As you know 77 I have never been a fan of the NET nor the fact the NCAA created it AND manages it

We talk a lot about number of bids and deeding for the NCAA Tournament
Look how it is on RPI. Not judging which is better, simply showing how much different it used to be when the A10 was viewed by the NCAA Selection Committee.

NET / RPI
Dayton 15 / 3
Richmond 69 / 37
George Mason 82 / 42

With RPI A10 has 3 very legit NCAA bid contenders. With NET only 1 in Dayton

So how much worse is the A10 from 6 years ago due to actual performance and how much worse because rating system changed?

Not saying 1 system is more correct or better just showing the factual differences. This season is not an exception. Similar since inception of the NET.


IMG_2078.png

So...does that mean, according to RPI, that Dayton is the 3rd best team in the country? 'cuz, I'm not buying that...maybe that's why they don't use it any more?

Which is fine if that’s what you think.
And by your observation the A10 benefitted from getting more teams in the NCAA Tournament and with better Seeds once they canned RPI

[Jersey77]

VCU beat Davidson last night on the road 63-58.
They have now won 5 straight and are at full strength, watch out.

Meanwhile (C) David Skogman (13 pts/ 47% 3PT) missed the game with a foot injury.
Rumors on the Davidson board are saying he may need surgery and miss the remainder of the season, not confirmed.

[adam914]

Most of the talk on here about the A10 is focused on how terrible it is, so based on the comparison between NET and RPI maybe the NET has it right and it was the RPI that was wrong all along?

[Jersey77]

Most of the talk on here about the A10 is focused on how terrible it is, so based on the comparison between NET and RPI maybe the NET has it right and it was the RPI that was wrong all along?

Regardless, the A10 is far from terrible.
Even going by the NET they are ranked 8th and have 8 teams in the top 100.

Anybody watching college basketball understands how tough our conference is top to bottom.

[adam914]

Most of the talk on here about the A10 is focused on how terrible it is, so based on the comparison between NET and RPI maybe the NET has it right and it was the RPI that was wrong all along?

Regardless, the A10 is far from terrible.
Even going by the NET they are ranked 8th and have 8 teams in the top 100.

Anybody watching college basketball understands how tough our conference is top to bottom.

I agree with you, I'm not one that thinks the A10 is terrible at all. I think I worded my post kind of poorly. It was more just a question/observation about the two competing ideas of the A10 being bad and the NET being inaccurate or unfair to the conference.

[Rhody15]

Most of the talk on here about the A10 is focused on how terrible it is, so based on the comparison between NET and RPI maybe the NET has it right and it was the RPI that was wrong all along?

Regardless, the A10 is far from terrible.
Even going by the NET they are ranked 8th and have 8 teams in the top 100.

Anybody watching college basketball understands how tough our conference is top to bottom.

I wouldn’t say top to bottom is tough.

Any team who is at home playing us knows they’ll score 90+ with ease.

St Louis seems to have given up.

Don’t think you’d find anyone to describe La Salle as tough. 200+ NET.

Fordham doesnt really present any notable challenges either.

[Jersey77]

Most of the talk on here about the A10 is focused on how terrible it is, so based on the comparison between NET and RPI maybe the NET has it right and it was the RPI that was wrong all along?

Regardless, the A10 is far from terrible.
Even going by the NET they are ranked 8th and have 8 teams in the top 100.

Anybody watching college basketball understands how tough our conference is top to bottom.

I wouldn’t say top to bottom is tough.

Any team who is at home playing us knows they’ll score 90+ with ease.

St Louis seems to have given up.

Don’t think you’d find anyone to describe La Salle as tough. 200+ NET.

Fordham doesnt really present any notable challenges either.

Those teams are probably still better than the bottom teams of most every other mid-major conference.

[Jdrums#3]

However, the NET (which I am not a fan of) doesn't determine the A10 standings.
Still have 11 games left, much can still happen.

Hopefully Archie and company figures it out, especially on D.

As you know 77 I have never been a fan of the NET nor the fact the NCAA created it AND manages it

We talk a lot about number of bids and deeding for the NCAA Tournament
Look how it is on RPI. Not judging which is better, simply showing how much different it used to be when the A10 was viewed by the NCAA Selection Committee.

NET / RPI
Dayton 15 / 3
Richmond 69 / 37
George Mason 82 / 42

With RPI A10 has 3 very legit NCAA bid contenders. With NET only 1 in Dayton

So how much worse is the A10 from 6 years ago due to actual performance and how much worse because rating system changed?

Not saying 1 system is more correct or better just showing the factual differences. This season is not an exception. Similar since inception of the NET.


IMG_2078.png

So...does that mean, according to RPI, that Dayton is the 3rd best team in the country? 'cuz, I'm not buying that...maybe that's why they don't use it any more?

The NET, RPI are only metrics for a point in time. They are a piece of puzzle and not to be taken as settled truth (unless of course you are in a power conference ).

How teams play and perform are influx and many CLOSELY ranked teams won’t play each other at that point in time to know with certainty, imho.

So, is Dayton’s RPI more accurate than their NET ? I don’t know. My eye test says no. However, I have not watched every Dayton game; all their up and down performances. But then, neither have I watched every moment of every other CLOSELY ranked team in the RPI or NET and their up and down performances.

In short, take the metrics with a grain of salt and not as settled truth, imho.