"Juan Bid", The Fall of the A10

[ATPTourFan]

This season, an unwanted visitor is likely to return for the first time in 18 seasons -- "Juan Bid". With just 3 teams in the KenPom and NCAA NET Top 100 -- Dayton ranked highest in each at 67 and 72, respectively -- there is a high likelihood the league will not earn an at-large bid to The Dance.

The league has often been referred to as "THE 3 Bid League", where in 11 of the past 15 seasons the A10 has had at least 3 representatives in the NCAA Tournament. Exactly 3 teams made the field in 8 of those years.

After averaging 5 teams a year between 2012-2014, peaking at 6 bids in '14, the league was poached by the New Big East and seemed to stabilize at 3 bids through 2018. Over the past 4 seasons, 2 teams have made it from the A10 (assuming 2 in the canceled COVID season).

Now, 2023 looks to be the first time since 2005 the A10 joins the other mid- and low-major conferences as a One Bid League.

Has A10 commissioner McGlade successfully navigated the conference through this new NCAA world? The results would indicate she has not.

What should be done to restore the A10 to "3 Bid League" status?

Warning: some readers may find the following graphics disturbing

[Jdrums#3]

Excellent work, ATP. Good eating’

I’ll take your word for it as I am afraid to look.

What can the A10 do to get back to 3 bids?

I will take a stab to help kick things off…

After a cursory look at the charts, I answer as follows: Beat the crap out of average to bad Div 1 teams, play less true road games against avg to bad Div 1 teams ooc, win more true road games, play more neutral site games ooc and win, bribe the people involved in calculating the metrics.

Just a start. I will try to rack my brain for more as I look deeper into the charts.

Great stuff during an off week.

[Jersey77]

I do disagree about putting much of the blame the past couple of years on the A10 commissioner.
Prior to this season many insiders felt the top tier of the conference would be extremely strong with a possibility of getting 3-4 teams in the NCAAT.
If I recall McGlade isn't responsible for the team's records, rosters, coaching decisions, untimely injuries, and overall performance.

If you are going that route, also remember she was in charge when the A10 had 4, 5, 6, and multiple years of 3 programs getting bids.
She is very well regarded in the NCAA community and has served on many influential committees.
Remember also the A10 has limited resources not an endless cash flow.

I am not as pessimistic as some here on the future of the A10.
Yeah this is currently a down time, but we added a couple of successful coaches to the conference, along with some young coaching talent.
Also we see teams like Fordham, GW, and St. Joe's having more recent success.

Actually at URI we can't do much more than what we are already doing.
Significantly upgraded our staff, plus adding the practice facility.

[Rhody15]

I do disagree about putting much of the blame the past couple of years on the A10 commissioner.
Prior to this season many insiders felt the top tier of the conference would be extremely strong with a possibility of getting 3-4 teams in the NCAAT.
If I recall McGlade isn't responsible for the team's records, rosters, coaching decisions, untimely injuries, and overall performance.

If you are going that route, also remember she was in charge when the A10 had 4, 5, 6, and multiple years of 3 programs getting bids.
She is very well regarded in the NCAA community and has served on many influential committees.
Remember also the A10 has limited resources not an endless cash flow.

I am not as pessimistic as some here on the future of the A10.
Yeah this is currently a down time, but we added a couple of successful coaches to the conference, along with some young coaching talent.
Also we see teams like Fordham, GW, and St. Joe's having more recent success.

Actually at URI we can't do much more than what we are already doing.
Significantly upgraded our staff, plus adding the practice facility.

Yea I have a hard time blaming McGlade for Dayton VCU and St Louis shitting the bed in OOC games the last few seasons.

Win half of those games and the A10 gets more bids.

[Jdrums#3]

I should assume this has been done but, I have my doubts…

How about A10 AD’s sitting down together and figuring out how best to manipulate the system better than the other non-P6 conferences while doing things posted by Jersey above like upgrading coaches, upgrading resources, etc.

In other words, demand all the programs have a common plan and goal.

Then, come up with ways to incentivize programs that commit and, for those that don’t commit, get creative in negotiating an exit for them or figure out ways to not reward them for not committing to the basic requirements needed for the conf to be a consistent 3 bid, top 9 conference.

The conference mission statement says, in part, “ the A10 Conference is committed to providing quality competition among its member institutions”, but to me, that is not being done in basketball conference wide because not all programs are adhering to the same standard quality competition requires.

The decline in quality is measurable and ongoing. It’s or get off the pot time for this conference, imho.

Sorry for the rant. It is just that the A10 makes my blood boil too often.

[reef]

Really good research ATP !!

1 bid league for the first time since 2005 is awful

I’m not a fan of the commish though I don’t think she’s the main reason for the fallout

That said this conference needs to start getting better

[PeterRamTime]

You want to know the real reason the A-10 has started to suck?

It's best coaches since Dan left have been

Mark Schmidt, Mike Rhoades, Anthony Grant Keith Dambrot, Chris Mooney and Travis Ford

Now what Schmidt has done at St Bona is great, Dambrot does great with less as well, but the other guys? Mediocre city. You can't have average coaches at your power programs. The whole league atrophies.

Not too long ago we had Brad Stevens, Archie Miller, Phil Martelli, Dan Hurley, Chris Mack, Fran Dunphy, Rick Majerus (Jim Crews), Shaka Smart, Mark Schmidt, Chris Mooney and Mike Lonergan at the same time.

It was huge for the league to get Archie, Frank and Fran.

The thing is...only one or those three is in his prime

[Rhody15]

“The Fall of the A10” is a bit harsh too.

Like it’s been said, first time since 2005 we’ll probably off 1 bid.

An off year.

Saying “The Fall of the A10” for one bad season would be equal to saying Duke and Kentucky were done being great programs when they missed the tournament a few years ago.

[PeterRamTime]

“The Fall of the A10” is a bit harsh too.

Line it’s been said, first time since 2005 we’ll probably off 1 bid.

An off year.

Saying “The Fall of the A10” for one bad season would be equal to saying Duke and Kentucky were done being blue bloods when they missed the tournament a few years ago.

"One" bad season? Wtf are you talking about its been pretty awful for a few years now? The A-10 being a two bid league is good? Interesting perspective.

[theblueram]

Juan's brother Otto Bid agrees with this post.

[Rhody15]

“The Fall of the A10” is a bit harsh too.

Line it’s been said, first time since 2005 we’ll probably off 1 bid.

An off year.

Saying “The Fall of the A10” for one bad season would be equal to saying Duke and Kentucky were done being blue bloods when they missed the tournament a few years ago.

"One" bad season? Wtf are you talking about its been pretty awful for a few years now? The A-10 being a two bid league is good? Interesting perspective.

The discussion is about it being a one bid league.

Dayton was the literal first team out last year.

Win one more OOC game and they’re in. There’s 3 bids.

It may not be as good as before, but it’ll still be the first time since 05 with only one bid.

Don’t expect it to get back to 4-6 bids.

[Jdrums#3]

I hope we can stay on point as this is a worthy thread and answer the questions posed by ATP in the context of the charts he included.

ATP, I didn’t answer your question regarding the Commish so I will try.

I really have not paid much attention to what she does and doesn’t do and I do not pay attention to other A10 sports besides mbb and wbb to a lesser extent. In that context, My observation of her performance - related solely to basketball - is it has been sub-par based on past conf rankings and current conf trends (bids trending down since the peak of 6 in the ‘13-‘14 season).

Commissioner McGlade may be more successful with other A10 sports. I don’t know and don’t care. If she is, that is admirable but not good enough for me, as a Rhody basketball fan.

[Jersey77]

“The Fall of the A10” is a bit harsh too.

Line it’s been said, first time since 2005 we’ll probably off 1 bid.

An off year.

Saying “The Fall of the A10” for one bad season would be equal to saying Duke and Kentucky were done being blue bloods when they missed the tournament a few years ago.

"One" bad season? Wtf are you talking about its been pretty awful for a few years now? The A-10 being a two bid league is good? Interesting perspective.

The discussion is about it being a one bid league.

Dayton was the literal first team out last year.

Win one more OOC game and they’re in. There’s 3 bids.

It may not be as good as before, but it’ll still be the first time since 05 with only one bid.

Don’t expect it to get back to 4-6 bids.

I still feel Indiana didn't deserve getting a bid last season (9-11 B10)
Yes and I think Dayton should have gotten in, their early losses cost them.

With the way things are now, it will be more and more difficult for conferences like the A10.
The NIL, transfer portal, P5 expansion along with their schedules.
At least the AAC and MWC has sizable football revenues with media contracts to help them compete.

[Jersey77]

I hope we can stay on point as this is a worthy thread and answer the questions posed by ATP in the context of the charts he included.

ATP, I didn’t answer your question regarding the Commish so I will try.

I really have not paid much attention to what she does and doesn’t do and I do not pay attention to other A10 sports besides mbb and wbb to a lesser extent. In that context, My observation of her performance - related solely to basketball - is it has been sub-par based on past conf rankings and current conf trends.

Commissioner McGlade may be more successful with other A10 sports. I don’t know and don’t care. If she is, that is admirable but not good enough for me, as a Rhody basketball fan.

JD, what exactly has she done that you give her a sub-par rating?
You realize of course she has a limited budget and team's performances which are out of her control.

[RhodyKyle]

Also we see teams like Fordham, GW, and St. Joe's having more recent success.

I think this one sentiment is more a result of the A10 being down with teams regressing down to their level than it is them really beginning to elevate themselves.

[Jersey77]

Also we see teams like Fordham, GW, and St. Joe's having more recent success.

I think this one sentiment is more a result of the A10 being down with teams regressing down to their level than it is them really beginning to elevate themselves.

That could be or a little more parity which we see in conferences all over the country.

[Rhody72]

...
Sorry for the rant. It is just that the A10 makes my blood boil too often.

We are the A10. It didn't get here in 1 year. We put the A10 where it is today.

[Jdrums#3]

I hope we can stay on point as this is a worthy thread and answer the questions posed by ATP in the context of the charts he included.

ATP, I didn’t answer your question regarding the Commish so I will try.

I really have not paid much attention to what she does and doesn’t do and I do not pay attention to other A10 sports besides mbb and wbb to a lesser extent. In that context, My observation of her performance - related solely to basketball - is it has been sub-par based on past conf rankings and current conf trends.

Commissioner McGlade may be more successful with other A10 sports. I don’t know and don’t care. If she is, that is admirable but not good enough for me, as a Rhody basketball fan.

JD, what exactly has she done that you give her a sub-par rating?
You realize of course she has a limited budget and team's performances which are out of her control.

Jersey, as I said above in attempting to answer ATP’s question, I do not follow her closely so I am simply going by results and trends specific to basketball at this time.

For basketball, A10 bids have trended down since the peak of 6 in the 13-14 season. Also, conf power ranking has been dropping in basketball. Troubling trends for me.

If par is 3 bids in the context of this thread then, the mbb conference performance - under her leadership and regardless of the reasons - has been trending sub-par from 3 to 2 to 1 since ‘13-14.

Yes, I understand things can be out of her control but top performers find ways to succeed, find solutions, advocate for corrections, despite circumstances.

I am open to being convinced she is doing a good job but what are
the standards for her for a good job?

Jersey, keep in mind I am not absolving conference members AD’s and Presidents from fault.

[theblueram]

“The Fall of the A10” is a bit harsh too.

Line it’s been said, first time since 2005 we’ll probably off 1 bid.

An off year.

Saying “The Fall of the A10” for one bad season would be equal to saying Duke and Kentucky were done being blue bloods when they missed the tournament a few years ago.

"One" bad season? Wtf are you talking about its been pretty awful for a few years now? The A-10 being a two bid league is good? Interesting perspective.

The discussion is about it being a one bid league.

Dayton was the literal first team out last year.

Win one more OOC game and they’re in. There’s 3 bids.

It may not be as good as before, but it’ll still be the first time since 05 with only one bid.

Don’t expect it to get back to 4-6 bids.

Don't expect? Why not? If it doesn't the comishoner needs to be fired.

[Jdrums#3]

This season, an unwanted visitor is likely to return for the first time in 18 seasons -- "Juan Bid". With just 3 teams in the KenPom and NCAA NET Top 100 -- Dayton ranked highest in each at 67 and 72, respectively -- there is a high likelihood the league will not earn an at-large bid to The Dance.

The league has often been referred to as "THE 3 Bid League", where in 11 of the past 15 seasons the A10 has had at least 3 representatives in the NCAA Tournament. Exactly 3 teams made the field in 8 of those years.

After averaging 5 teams a year between 2012-2014, peaking at 6 bids in '14, the league was poached by the New Big East and seemed to stabilize at 3 bids through 2018. Over the past 4 seasons, 2 teams have made it from the A10 (assuming 2 in the canceled COVID season).

Now, 2023 looks to be the first time since 2005 the A10 joins the other mid- and low-major conferences as a One Bid League.

Has A10 commissioner McGlade successfully navigated the conference through this new NCAA world? The results would indicate she has not.

What should be done to restore the A10 to "3 Bid League" status?

Warning: some readers may find the following graphics disturbing


A10Decline.png

3Top100.png

11thBest.png

Just reposting this as a help to stay on topic for the very compelling thread questions and supporting charts.

[Jdrums#3]

I do disagree about putting much of the blame the past couple of years on the A10 commissioner.
Prior to this season many insiders felt the top tier of the conference would be extremely strong with a possibility of getting 3-4 teams in the NCAAT.
If I recall McGlade isn't responsible for the team's records, rosters, coaching decisions, untimely injuries, and overall performance.

If you are going that route, also remember she was in charge when the A10 had 4, 5, 6, and multiple years of 3 programs getting bids.
She is very well regarded in the NCAA community and has served on many influential committees.
Remember also the A10 has limited resources not an endless cash flow.

I am not as pessimistic as some here on the future of the A10.
Yeah this is currently a down time, but we added a couple of successful coaches to the conference, along with some young coaching talent.
Also we see teams like Fordham, GW, and St. Joe's having more recent success.

Actually at URI we can't do much more than what we are already doing.
Significantly upgraded our staff, plus adding the practice facility.

Jersey, I have a great deal of respect for your cbb knowledge so I am very interested in your thoughts on ATP’s second question (for the conf as a whole considering the charts ATP included)? Forget that you aren’t pessimistic.

No rush. I will be checking in here periodically until I get consumed with our next game Wednesday.

[Jersey77]

I hope we can stay on point as this is a worthy thread and answer the questions posed by ATP in the context of the charts he included.

ATP, I didn’t answer your question regarding the Commish so I will try.

I really have not paid much attention to what she does and doesn’t do and I do not pay attention to other A10 sports besides mbb and wbb to a lesser extent. In that context, My observation of her performance - related solely to basketball - is it has been sub-par based on past conf rankings and current conf trends.

Commissioner McGlade may be more successful with other A10 sports. I don’t know and don’t care. If she is, that is admirable but not good enough for me, as a Rhody basketball fan.

JD, what exactly has she done that you give her a sub-par rating?
You realize of course she has a limited budget and team's performances which are out of her control.

Jersey, as I said above in attempting to answer ATP’s question, I do not follow her closely so I am simply going by results and trends specific to basketball at this time.

For basketball, A10 bids have trended down since the peak of 6 in the 13-14 season. Also, conf power ranking has been dropping in basketball. Troubling trends for me.

If par is 3 bids in the context of this thread then, the mbb conference performance - under her leadership and regardless of the reasons - has been trending sub-par from 3 to 2 to 1 since ‘13-14.

Yes, I understand things can be out of her control but top performers find ways to succeed, find solutions, advocate for corrections, despite circumstances.

I am open to being convinced she is doing a good job but what are
the standards for her for a good job?

She helped put the conference in the best possible situation to succeed, under the current circumstances.
She doesn't control how the teams perform, nor can she.
The 3- par threshold as you referred may be very hard to achieve going forward, for reasons I previously stated.
Also Dayton had the resume late last season to give us a 3rd bid.

I happen to think we have been very fortunate in having Bernadette McGlade as our conference commissioner. She has served on several prestigious committees including the NCAA Men's Div.1 Basketball Committee.
Probably most important she has an excellent relationship and has gotten strong support from the President's Council of the A10.
The commissioner negotiated the media contracts and also extended the championship contract at the Barclay.

As far as your question ATP on getting 3 bids, that may continue to be more difficult in today's climate.
The NCAA has changed the rules in the last couple of years.
How many mid-majors without all the football revenue can now do it?
Not saying it isn't possible though.

Do you know the conference by-laws and what conditions they can legally hold every current program accountable?

If they can't drop schools because of their performance, the only thing we can hope for is that the programs become more prioritized by those schools.
Either that or try and add programs to the conference that will help give us an advantage, plus insurance in case certain schools are poached.

Dayton, VCU, and St. Louis all had the opportunity to succeed this season, but it hasn't worked out as planned. We can't blame the commissioner for that.

Also going into last season everyone picked the Bonnies as the clear-cut favorite in the A10.
Again no fault of the commissioner.

But as I said before with Archie, Frank, and some of the other new coaches, many schools are anteing up. Things may not be so dim.

[reef]

Love the subject line of this thread JUAN bid !!

[Jdrums#3]

JD, what exactly has she done that you give her a sub-par rating?
You realize of course she has a limited budget and team's performances which are out of her control.

Jersey, as I said above in attempting to answer ATP’s question, I do not follow her closely so I am simply going by results and trends specific to basketball at this time.

For basketball, A10 bids have trended down since the peak of 6 in the 13-14 season. Also, conf power ranking has been dropping in basketball. Troubling trends for me.

If par is 3 bids in the context of this thread then, the mbb conference performance - under her leadership and regardless of the reasons - has been trending sub-par from 3 to 2 to 1 since ‘13-14.

Yes, I understand things can be out of her control but top performers find ways to succeed, find solutions, advocate for corrections, despite circumstances.

I am open to being convinced she is doing a good job but what are
the standards for her for a good job?

She helped put the conference in the best possible situation to succeed, under the current circumstances.
She doesn't control how the teams perform, nor can she.
The 3- par threshold as you referred may be very hard to achieve going forward, for reasons I previously stated.
Also Dayton had the resume late last season to give us a 3rd bid.

I happen to think we have been very fortunate in having Bernadette McGlade as our conference commissioner. She has served on several prestigious committees including the NCAA Men's Div.1 Basketball Committee.
Probably most important she has an excellent relationship and has gotten strong support from the President's Council of the A10.
The commissioner negotiated the media contracts and also extended the championship contract at the Barclay.

As far as your question ATP on getting 3 bids, that may continue to be more difficult in today's climate.
The NCAA has changed the rules in the last couple of years.
How many mid-majors without all the football revenue can now do it?
Not saying it isn't possible though.

Do you know the conference by-laws and what conditions they can legally hold every current program accountable?

If they can't drop schools because of their performance, the only thing we can hope for is that the programs become more prioritized by those schools.
Either that or try and add programs to the conference that will help give us an advantage, plus insurance in case certain schools are poached.

Dayton, VCU, and St. Louis all had the opportunity to succeed this season, but it hasn't worked out as planned. We can't blame the commissioner for that.

Also going into last season everyone picked the Bonnies as the clear-cut favorite in the A10.
Again no fault of the commissioner.

But as I said before with Archie, Frank, and some of the other new coaches, many schools are anteing up. Things may not be so dim.

Good stuff, Jersey. I always appreciate your point of view.

I have looked up the conf by-laws on-line and have found nothing more than the conference mission statement and code of conduct (behavior related primarily), uniforms/logo guidelines and not much else.

[Jersey77]

Jersey, as I said above in attempting to answer ATP’s question, I do not follow her closely so I am simply going by results and trends specific to basketball at this time.

For basketball, A10 bids have trended down since the peak of 6 in the 13-14 season. Also, conf power ranking has been dropping in basketball. Troubling trends for me.

If par is 3 bids in the context of this thread then, the mbb conference performance - under her leadership and regardless of the reasons - has been trending sub-par from 3 to 2 to 1 since ‘13-14.

Yes, I understand things can be out of her control but top performers find ways to succeed, find solutions, advocate for corrections, despite circumstances.

I am open to being convinced she is doing a good job but what are
the standards for her for a good job?

She helped put the conference in the best possible situation to succeed, under the current circumstances.
She doesn't control how the teams perform, nor can she.
The 3- par threshold as you referred may be very hard to achieve going forward, for reasons I previously stated.
Also Dayton had the resume late last season to give us a 3rd bid.

I happen to think we have been very fortunate in having Bernadette McGlade as our conference commissioner. She has served on several prestigious committees including the NCAA Men's Div.1 Basketball Committee.
Probably most important she has an excellent relationship and has gotten strong support from the President's Council of the A10.
The commissioner negotiated the media contracts and also extended the championship contract at the Barclay.

As far as your question ATP on getting 3 bids, that may continue to be more difficult in today's climate.
The NCAA has changed the rules in the last couple of years.
How many mid-majors without all the football revenue can now do it?
Not saying it isn't possible though.

Do you know the conference by-laws and what conditions they can legally hold every current program accountable?

If they can't drop schools because of their performance, the only thing we can hope for is that the programs become more prioritized by those schools.
Either that or try and add programs to the conference that will help give us an advantage, plus insurance in case certain schools are poached.

Dayton, VCU, and St. Louis all had the opportunity to succeed this season, but it hasn't worked out as planned. We can't blame the commissioner for that.

Also going into last season everyone picked the Bonnies as the clear-cut favorite in the A10.
Again no fault of the commissioner.

But as I said before with Archie, Frank, and some of the other new coaches, many schools are anteing up. Things may not be so dim.

Good stuff, Jersey. I always appreciate your point of view.

I have looked up the conf by-laws on-line and have found nothing more than the conference mission statement and code of conduct (behavior related primarily), uniforms/logo guidelines and not much else.

Thanks JD.

I just feel that it will continually get more difficult for our conference to get back to that success we once had in our heyday.
I don't think there are any easy fixes.

[reef]

If anything with the portal and NIL it should be harder than it was for the conference 10 years ago , I do think it’s cyclical and we should be a 2-3 bid league most years

I do want to see the dance expanded to 96 teams would help us and the A10

[Rhody72]

I just feel that it will continually get more difficult for our conference to get back to that success we once had in our heyday.
I don't think there are any easy fixes.

There are very few new colleges competing at the D1 level. So you are saying that current A10 member schools are falling behind peer institutions in their commitment to athletics. I agree. This lack of commitment was evident during the Carothers' era when he expected athletics to be financially " a tub on its own bottom" and fired an AD who was too ambitious.

[Jersey77]

I just feel that it will continually get more difficult for our conference to get back to that success we once had in our heyday.
I don't think there are any easy fixes.

There are very few new colleges competing at the D1 level. So you are saying that current A10 member schools are falling behind peer institutions in their commitment to athletics. I agree. This lack of commitment was evident during the Carothers' era when he expected athletics to be financially " a tub on its own bottom" and fired an AD who was too ambitious.

I don't feel that the majority of A10 schools are lacking in commitment to their athletic department and certainly not the upper tier.
It is just that the path for conferences such as ours will be more difficult to reach the NCAAT.
The NIL, new transfer rules/portal, expansion of the P5/scheduling, are bigger obstacles now.

I still think this was just an off year for the A10, especially with all the high pre-season expectations.
Too early to panic, because we are still going to be considered a multi-bid league going forward.

[gorhody89]

Stating the obvious but the A10 is really missing the consistency of the Xavier & Temple programs. That combined with cold stretches from historically decent GW, st joes, and Umass has really hurt the depth.

Btw Fordham(I know not close to atlarge) but 18-4,6-3 - kudos some signs of life from the doormat

[RI_Bred]

The NIL, new transfer rules/portal, expansion of the P5/scheduling, are bigger obstacles now.

I think this is a lot bigger problem for mid-major conferences that most have yet to realize. Time will tell.

[bigappleram]

Doesn’t seem to be hurting the MWC.
The effects of NIL are overstated. The programs that had the bag now have a bigger bag. Not much else has changed. The mids will have mid level collectives. Great coaches will still be able to attract and retain talent.

[UCH21377]

The NIL, new transfer rules/portal, expansion of the P5/scheduling, are bigger obstacles now.

I think this is a lot bigger problem for mid-major conferences that most have yet to realize. Time will tell.

Agree. I am afraid that football money will enable the lower level D1 football schools/conferences (MWC, AAC, etc) to over time have more money and prestige than non-football conferences (other than the BE and maybe WCC if Gonzaga stays). I wouldn't be surprised if URI has to look for conference options somewhere down the road.

[Jersey77]

Doesn’t seem to be hurting the MWC.
The effects of NIL are overstated. The programs that had the bag now have a bigger bag. Not much else has changed. The mids will have mid level collectives. Great coaches will still be able to attract and retain talent.

The MWC has been good.
But again I would give them and the AAC a little advantage because they have a sizeable revenue from the football programs. I think I had read that the MWC had the largest football revenue from the non AQ.

But yeah BAR, good coaches and good facilities should attract better talent.
That is why I am optimistic about our program.

[Rhode_Island_Red]

Doesn’t seem to be hurting the MWC.
The effects of NIL are overstated. The programs that had the bag now have a bigger bag. Not much else has changed. The mids will have mid level collectives. Great coaches will still be able to attract and retain talent.

The MWC has been good.
But again I would give them and the AAC a little advantage because they have a sizeable revenue from the football programs. I think I had read that the MWC had the largest football revenue from the non AQ.

But yeah BAR, good coaches and good facilities should attract better talent.
That is why I am optimistic about our program.

How much do those schools have to spend to generate that revenue? Do they make a profit on football?

[Jersey77]

Doesn’t seem to be hurting the MWC.
The effects of NIL are overstated. The programs that had the bag now have a bigger bag. Not much else has changed. The mids will have mid level collectives. Great coaches will still be able to attract and retain talent.

The MWC has been good.
But again I would give them and the AAC a little advantage because they have a sizeable revenue from the football programs. I think I had read that the MWC had the largest football revenue from the non AQ.

But yeah BAR, good coaches and good facilities should attract better talent.
That is why I am optimistic about our program.

How much do those schools have to spend to generate that revenue? Do they make a profit on football?

For Boise State 2022:

https://www.idahopress.com/blueturfspor ... %20revenue.

The football team had over $18.4 million in operating expenses, but brought in more than $25.5 million in revenue.

In all, the Boise State football team brought in more than $7.1 million and its men’s basketball team was profitable by almost $900,000.


https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/mou ... ox-sports/

"US college sports’ Mountain West Conference has announced new six-year media rights deals with commercial broadcaster CBS and pay-television network Fox Sports worth a combined US$270 million."

"The deals, which run from the 2020/21 season through the 2025/26 campaign, will see the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) conference’s members receive around US$4 million each year, a considerable increase on the annual US$1.1 million they get under the current contract."

[bigappleram]

This revenue helps afford coaches salaries and facility upgrades but has no bearing on NIL bc that is being driven by boosters and private sector. If tomorrow Tom Ryan wants to cut a check for 1MM so we can land a 5 star recruit he can do that. NIL didn’t widen the divide between the haves and have nots.

[Jersey77]

This revenue helps afford coaches salaries and facility upgrades but has no bearing on NIL bc that is being driven by boosters and private sector. If tomorrow Tom Ryan wants to cut a check for 1MM so we can land a 5 star recruit he can do that. NIL didn’t widen the divide between the haves and have nots.

True that schools can't, but the additional revenue for increasing salaries and upgrading facilities plus national exposure with media doesn't hurt in recruiting.

It is a fine line when dealing with NIL and the NCAA supposedly cracking down on boosters and what's acceptable not just a "Pay to Play" deal.

Look the AAC, MWC, and the WCC (mainly because of Gonzaga and St. Mary's) aren't going away and should continue to be strong, but the A10 has quality programs and are in the conversation.

Still what options does this conference have and specifically URI as a program?
Right now, I think they are doing the best they can under the circumstances.

[RI_Bred]

Doesn’t seem to be hurting the MWC.
The effects of NIL are overstated. The programs that had the bag now have a bigger bag. Not much else has changed. The mids will have mid level collectives. Great coaches will still be able to attract and retain talent.

Really hope so.

[RhodyKyle]

Doesn’t seem to be hurting the MWC.
The effects of NIL are overstated. The programs that had the bag now have a bigger bag. Not much else has changed. The mids will have mid level collectives. Great coaches will still be able to attract and retain talent.

Tell this to Jim Boeheim who just went after conference foes for "buying teams." The notable big money programs.....Wake and Pitt. It might be time for Jim to ride off into the sunset...

[JimSidd]

Doesn’t seem to be hurting the MWC.
The effects of NIL are overstated. The programs that had the bag now have a bigger bag. Not much else has changed. The mids will have mid level collectives. Great coaches will still be able to attract and retain talent.

Tell this to Jim Boeheim who just went after conference foes for "buying teams." The notable big money programs.....Wake and Pitt. It might be time for Jim to ride off into the sunset...

He later backed off on his statement concerning Pitt and Wake, but didn’t back off regarding Miami.

[bigappleram]

This revenue helps afford coaches salaries and facility upgrades but has no bearing on NIL bc that is being driven by boosters and private sector. If tomorrow Tom Ryan wants to cut a check for 1MM so we can land a 5 star recruit he can do that. NIL didn’t widen the divide between the haves and have nots.

True that schools can't, but the additional revenue for increasing salaries and upgrading facilities plus national exposure with media doesn't hurt in recruiting.

It is a fine line when dealing with NIL and the NCAA supposedly cracking down on boosters and what's acceptable not just a "Pay to Play" deal.

Look the AAC, MWC, and the WCC (mainly because of Gonzaga and St. Mary's) aren't going away and should continue to be strong, but the A10 has quality programs and are in the conversation.

Still what options does this conference have and specifically URI as a program?
Right now, I think they are doing the best they can under the circumstances.

I agree Jersey. I’m not doom n gloom on the A10. It’s always been a top heavy/reliant league with usually 2-3 programs inside the Top 75ish. That should have been the case this year but SLU, UD and VCU all stubbed their toe. The middle to bottom of league is much better than in years past but that isn’t helpful to a mid major. Our top teams simply failed to meet expectations.

[Jdrums#3]

The NIL, new transfer rules/portal, expansion of the P5/scheduling, are bigger obstacles now.

I think this is a lot bigger problem for mid-major conferences that most have yet to realize. Time will tell.

Adapt and overcome or throw in the towel and call it a day?

And, if Rhody chooses to adapt and overcome in basketball but a majority of A10 institutions won’t or can’t, what then? Let the anchor drag us down? Push for a divorce with like minded A10 institutions to leave the conference?

7 - 10 team conference divorce from the A10? 14- 20 game conf sched depending on # of teams? Plus 1-2 conf challenges? Plus ooc games and early season tourney’s to get us to 30-31 games? Match up with another like minded group (other conference?) and
Become the east coast division of a western, mid-west or southern group or conference? How about a 3 way…5 teams East, 5 Midwest, 5 south or west?

Why are we locked in to reacting vs being proactive regarding the NET, NIL, the A10, P5 scheduling?

Bred, this isn’t a criticism of your post because I go back and forth on this myself and at this time in my life I have more time than most to think up questions about where our bb program is going, should go and I have no one but KB to ask.

[RF1]

The rules and NCAA selection process (NET formula) have been changed over the last several years to further consolidate all power in the high profile conferences. This has been very much manifested in the visible decline of the A-10 in the last five to ten years. Just look to the number of A-10 NCAA teams and their seeding in recent years. The expanded conference schedules and challenges against just other high profile leagues has reduced good OOC games for A-10 teams and greatly reduced resume building opportunities. The league was able to hang on longer than others but it is today being squeezed out just like formerly multi bid conferences such as the MAC and MVC were some 25 years ago. It is not because A-10 schools are not investing. Just look at the budgets of league schools and the salaries it has recently awarded its coaches. They have been on the rise but it doesn't matter when the system is rigged in favor of a select group that you are not part of. I really hope that the NCAA tournament field expands. It will very much help leagues like the A-10 that in recent years has dominated the NIT field with several teams. The current metrics system always has the A-10 schools just outside the at large range. Power conferences already send the bulk of their members to the NCAA so it is likely to help the next rung leagues even more.

[Jdrums#3]

RF1, Throw in the towel, then?

Or, figure out ways to manipulate (for lack of a better word at the moment) the NET and other hurdles to be part of the best non-P5, P6 basketball conference?

Just asking questions I hope the A10 is asking it’s member schools?

ATP, I think I am asking questions that align with your second question about the A10 in your opening post. If I am not, please let me know as I do not want to derail or hijack your compelling thread.

[Jersey77]

The NIL, new transfer rules/portal, expansion of the P5/scheduling, are bigger obstacles now.

I think this is a lot bigger problem for mid-major conferences that most have yet to realize. Time will tell.

Adapt and overcome or throw in the towel and call it a day?

And, if Rhody chooses to adapt and overcome in basketball but a majority of A10 institutions won’t or can’t, what then? Let the anchor drag us down? Push for a divorce with like minded A10 institutions to leave the conference?

7 - 10 team conference divorce from the A10? 14- 20 game conf sched depending on # of teams? Plus 1-2 conf challenges? Plus ooc games and early season tourney’s to get us to 30-31 games? Match up with another like minded group (other conference?) and
Become the east coast division of a western, mid-west or southern group or conference? How about a 3 way…5 teams East, 5 Midwest, 5 south or west?

Why are we locked in to reacting vs being proactive regarding the NET, NIL, the A10, P5 scheduling?

Bred, this isn’t a criticism of your post because I go back and forth on this myself and at this time in my life I have more time than most to think up questions about where our bb program is going, should go and I have no one but KB to ask.

Okay JD for thinking outside the box but no.

Our problem these past few seasons is that the top tier teams have underperformed, not necessarily the teams at the bottom holding us down.
Every conference has its weak links, that isn't going to change.
As a matter of fact, some of those programs are now more competitive.
Not all is terrible, in 2020 Dayton was a top 5 team and probably would have gotten a #1 seed.

Thorr is heavily invested in the A10, chair of the AD's.
He won't be an advocate for divorcing this conference to form a new league.
Besides none of the programs are strong enough to leverage better media deals.
In our present situation and recent record this whole discussion is pretty pointless.

[reef]

The rules and NCAA selection process (NET formula) have been changed over the last several years to further consolidate all power in the high profile conferences. This has been very much manifested in the visible decline of the A-10 in the last five to ten years. Just look to the number of A-10 NCAA teams and their seeding in recent years. The expanded conference schedules and challenges against just other high profile leagues has reduced good OOC games for A-10 teams and greatly reduced resume building opportunities. The league was able to hang on longer than others but it is today being squeezed out just like formerly multi bid conferences such as the MAC and MVC were some 25 years ago. It is not because A-10 schools are not investing. Just look at the budgets of league schools and the salaries it has recently awarded its coaches. They have been on the rise but it doesn't matter when the system is rigged in favor of a select group that you are not part of. I really hope that the NCAA tournament field expands. It will very much help leagues like the A-10 that in recent years has dominated the NIT field with several teams. The current metrics system always has the A-10 schools just outside the at large range. Power conferences already send the bulk of their members to the NCAA so it is likely to help the next rung leagues even more.

I’m hopeful for a 96 team field will definitely help the mid majors and more games in the big dance will help the NCAA bottom line

[Jdrums#3]

I think this is a lot bigger problem for mid-major conferences that most have yet to realize. Time will tell.

Adapt and overcome or throw in the towel and call it a day?

And, if Rhody chooses to adapt and overcome in basketball but a majority of A10 institutions won’t or can’t, what then? Let the anchor drag us down? Push for a divorce with like minded A10 institutions to leave the conference?

7 - 10 team conference divorce from the A10? 14- 20 game conf sched depending on # of teams? Plus 1-2 conf challenges? Plus ooc games and early season tourney’s to get us to 30-31 games? Match up with another like minded group (other conference?) and
Become the east coast division of a western, mid-west or southern group or conference? How about a 3 way…5 teams East, 5 Midwest, 5 south or west?

Why are we locked in to reacting vs being proactive regarding the NET, NIL, the A10, P5 scheduling?

Bred, this isn’t a criticism of your post because I go back and forth on this myself and at this time in my life I have more time than most to think up questions about where our bb program is going, should go and I have no one but KB to ask.

Okay JD for thinking outside the box but no.

Our problem these past few seasons is that the top tier teams have underperformed, not necessarily the teams at the bottom holding us down.
Every conference has its weak links, that isn't going to change.
As a matter of fact, some of those programs are now more competitive.
Not all is terrible, in 2020 Dayton was a top 5 team and probably would have gotten a #1 seed.

Thorr is heavily invested in the A10, chair of the AD's.
He won't be an advocate for divorcing this conference to form a new league.
Besides none of the programs are strong enough to leverage better media deals.
In our present situation and recent record this whole discussion is pretty pointless.

Jersey, I get that my questions are chasing windmills at this time and I don’t think the conference is terrible (excluding this season ) but, this is an off week, we still have a few more days until the next game and ATP has posted, I believe, a compelling thread.

All your points are well taken, Jersey.

I will do my best to stop asking questions in this thread as I have asked enough and do not want to hijack it and waste the effort ATP put into it.

I will leave this thread for now with this…

This forum is NCAA or Bust. You, me and others here have enjoyed fantastic NCAA Tourney runs and I would like us to experience at least a few more runs while we are here. Also, I would hope that the tourney runs continue well into the future for the sake of future KB’ers so that they experience the kinds of tourney runs we have. My intent here, like you and the others on here - errr…maybe not 72 (relax 72, just pulling your leg ) - is what is best for the university and the men’s basketball program (the women’s program too as some of you have gotten me hooked).

Carry on.

[woodennickel1]

I think it was 2014 the A10 had 6 teams in field . It has been steadily down hill since then. A lot of the metrics favor the p6 teams I get that but it does not seem ro be hurting the mountain west who will most likely have five teams in field. I personally dont think Mcglade has done a good job

[RI_Bred]

Bred, this isn’t a criticism of your post because I go back and forth on this myself and at this time in my life I have more time than most to think up questions about where our bb program is going, should go and I have no one but KB to ask.

No worries my friend, all good conversation on our off week!

[Jdrums#3]

Bred, this isn’t a criticism of your post because I go back and forth on this myself and at this time in my life I have more time than most to think up questions about where our bb program is going, should go and I have no one but KB to ask.

No worries my friend, all good conversation on our off week!

If my wife and daughters were basketball fans I’d bug them and spare you all.