URI athletic bonds?

[RhowdyRam02]

Thorr Bjorn was on the Rhody Baseline podcast last week and dropped some interesting information about potential bonds for athletic facility improvements.



He begins talking about them at around 13:25. Pardon my poor transcription skills:

"Athletics hasn't been part of, for example facilities, we haven't been part of a bond since the Ryan Center was built. President Parlange knows that, he understands that we do need to get our East stands redone and a new press box and everything, we need a track, we need softball stands, we need baseball stands, we need a boathouse, we need a soccer press box and dugouts. So there's needs and we've done some of the initial architectural engineering work to figure out how much that's going to cost, but I think he understands that at some point that Athletics is going to have to be part of a bond whether two years from now, four years from now, I know the Bay Campus is something that's being discussed soon. Where do we fall in that pecking order and he's made it very clear to me that he understands that and he knows it's important, and we need to do those things. Because there may not be another athletic bond for another 25 years, 27 years, and that's ok because there's a lot of needs that's not a complaint, it is what it is. It's nice to know that we're going to be part of that conversation, we need to be. We've raised a lot of money for the practice facility, that's just about $8 million that we raised, all donors, it's great, it's the biggest fundraising initiative we've ever done. We've got great donors who are very supportive, but we don't have the masses like big time power 5 schools that are able to not only generate revenue from a donor perspective but can also finance things. We can't do that, they can. So we need that bond, we need to be part of that, and I know we will be at some point. I trust that will happen whether again two years, four years, probably not more than six because now we're getting pushed out too far."

Renovated Meade Stadium with new East stands and press box
Outdoor track
Softball stands
Baseball stands
Boathouse
Soccer press box and dugouts

Meade alone costs about $25 to $30 million.

Not sure how reputable this site is: https://sportsvenuecalculator.com/ but they have the
Outdoor track around $544,000 to $1.232 million (we have an 8 lane track and I went with disposal of old track and build instead of resurface because the track has been condemned for over 20 years)

Softball - George Mason (host of the 2022 A10 softball tournament) spent $2.3 million on their renovation in 2009, though that included a complete replacement of the field surface which we just did this past offseason. "In each of the newly constructed sunken dugouts, players have access to private restroom facilities as well as new bullpens. The third base side features a double batting cage. In the seating bowl itself, the stadium features 200 permanent metal seats behind home plate, with grass berm seating for an additional 500 spectators. While walking on the wide concourse, spectators can take advantage of the men's and women's restroom facilities and water fountain. The park features a brand-new public address and sound system as well as a climate-controlled press box." https://gomason.com/facilities/george-m ... -complex/3

Baseball - Fordham (host of the 2022 A10 baseball tournament) spent $4.3 million to renovate their baseball facility in 2005. "The facility underwent a $4.3 million renovation, which included a new drainage system, a new FieldTurf surface, a new scoreboard and sound system, and lights. In addition, new bullpens, recessed dugouts, a 500-seat grandstand, a press box and a renovated entrance were also a part of the new look of the complex." "In 2012, Houlihan Park got another new addition with a full-color video scoreboard, made by Daktronics. The new display has the ability to show video, in game statistics, and more. In summer 2014, the surface of Houlihan Park was replaced, while a new outfield wall and batting cage area (behind right field) were installed. In addition, a Daktronics sound system was installed on top of the scoreboard." I don't think we'll be looking at $4.3 million necessarily but we are probably almost due to have the field resurfaced, we don't have lights, and the seating and press box would be essentially brand new I'm assuming.

Boathouse - No fucking clue. Sorry, there's a limit to my research ability.

Soccer - again, not really sure, especially since it seems we wouldn't be doing anything to the field and stands.

So you're looking at $32.144 million to $37.832 million, minus softball field replacement, plus a boathouse, plus soccer dug outs and a press box just for the projects he named off the top of his head.

So the $35-$40 million question is how do we go about paying for transformational changes to the facilities of 9 of our programs? Thorr mentioned the last bond for athletics was for the Ryan Center, however that bond never went before the voters. And we had a $6.7 million bond in 2004 for athletics that 65.5% of RIers voted against. The timeline he threw out there didn't seem to allow for the Ryan Center bond to be paid for and kind of roll that over. Only thing I can think of then would be Rhode Island Health and Educational Building Corporation bonds. We're using them for multiple projects on campus already, such as the Memorial Union expansion and renovation, so obviously taking out those bonds doesn't require going out to the voters. Interestingly it also seems like you can fund athletic facilities with these. When you go to the following website:

https://rihebc.com/accountability-trans ... tal-plans/

They have a picture of Bryant's athletic building. So is that the play? If so, is there any reason we're waiting? If we're doing it this way we don't have to wait for an election cycle. How would we pay these bonds back? Obviously still a lot of questions, but this is the current lay of the land as best as I can scope things out

[rambone 78]

We can't rely on the voters to approve anything athletic related.

Looks like it's going to be a long time to get these things done however.

[KeaneyBluBallz]

We can't rely on the voters to approve anything athletic related.

Looks like it's going to be a long time to get these things done however.

I agree and it's unfortunate.

RI'ers seemingly LOVE their ballet bond questions equally LOVE to approve them. but given those rough #s, I don't see it happening. perhaps a more defined list of priorities, maybe starting with anything safety related IE football bleachers.. maybe there's another way around that (insurance) so it can be taken off the bond punch list?

being a public school, it should go before the voters and I feel it should be approved. these facilities go hand in hand with the rest of what RI'ers have already approved in recent years for the university. URI has a whole needs to be invested in by the state and it's residents if it's to be the state's flagship institution.

if not, we're RIC.

[Rhody15]

Absolutely love how stern and straight forward Thorr was when he talked about Archie's contract, why he deserves this amount of the money, etc.

No bullshit, just all facts.

[KeaneyBluBallz]

Absolutely love how stern and straight forward Thorr was when he talked about Archie's contract, why he deserves this amount of the money, etc.

No bullshit, just all facts.

in the eyes of the 'unknowing how these things work', uncaring, fiscally uptight, pearl clutching, NIMBY, RI voter, it would seem to them Thorr and Marc have blown their loads on two coaches. they'll tell any bond related to URI athletics to piss off.

The Pres and AD will both need to get WAY out in front of this potential bond thing for it to have any hope. Just adds the importance of winning, for all programs, especially the current under performing and new programs coming aboard, and doing it very quickly.

I wish them much luck and success.

[Brian Forster]

This bond will be north of $50M.

Am told by major donor.

[RhowdyRam02]

This bond will be north of $50M.

Am told by major donor.

Are they planning on putting this in front of voters or doing an outside bond like RIHEBC?

[theblueram]

Problem is every pc fan will vote no.

[RF1]

I posted about this in another thread. I think getting a URI athletics infrastructure funding bond approved by Rhode Island voters will be a tall order.


The funding for the Ryan Center did not go through a voter bond referendum as it was approved by the legislature (as was also the case with the RICC and DDC). The most recent URI athletics funding ballot initiative was for Athletic Performance Center and Meade Stadium improvements back in 2004. It lost by a wide margin as 65.5% voted NO.

Rhode Island Question 10, Meade Stadium Bonds (2004)
https://ballotpedia.org/Rhode_Island_Qu ... nds_(2004)


2004 Question 10
"Approval of this question will authorize the State of Rhode Island to issue general obligation bonds, refunding bonds, and temporary notes in an amount not to exceed $6,700,000 to construct an Athletic Performance Center at the University of Rhode Island and renovate existing facilities at Meade Stadium and Keaney Gymnasium at the University of Rhode Island."


Some years, the bond issues for academic buildings at URI in fields like the sciences which can generate economic benefits for the state even struggle to get approval. The 2004 election results were a resounding 65.5% NO for funding athletics infrastructure even with the relatively low dollar request of $6.7M. Very few bond questions lose that badly. The only way that URI athletics funding could likely get voter approved is if it were a PART of a bigger Bond Question that included something else that was very popular.

A recent Projo Letter to the Editor called out Archie Miller's new contract. It illustrates the difficult climb it will be to get an athletics bond passed. The person that wrote the letter compared Miller's $8.5M contract to their $8.00 (EIGHT DOLLARS) cost for a auto registration license plate. It sadly perfectly sums up the mentality of many Rhode Islanders.


Courtesy of Ram1019 from the Archie Miller thread:

I think URI would have a better chance of getting state funding for athletics via the Ryan Center, RICC, and Dunkin Dounts Center route where approvals were from the legislature and governor and not at the ballot box.

[Rhody15]

Problem is every pc fan will vote no.

That thought didn’t pop into my mind, but that is absolutely true.

[RF1]

Problem is every pc fan will vote no.

PC fans however had no issue with the state spending in excess of $100M to purchase and renovate the DDC. Look for them now to push for more public taxpayer money to fix its leaky roof.

[Rhody15]

Problem is every pc fan will vote no.

PC fans however had no issue with the state spending in excess of $100M to purchase and renovate the DDC. Look for them now to push for more public taxpayer money to fix its leaky roof.

Well I mean, they do play at The Dunk.

Why would/should they have a problem with money being spent to improve their home arena?

[RF1]

Problem is every pc fan will vote no.

PC fans however had no issue with the state spending in excess of $100M to purchase and renovate the DDC. Look for them now to push for more public taxpayer money to fix its leaky roof.

Well I mean, they do play at The Dunk.

Why would/should they have a problem with money being spent to improve their home arena?

They should have an issue because it is public tax money going into a facility which mainly benefit private entities (PC and Bruins) that generate profit off the dime of the taxpayer. While the private entities make money, the arena operates deficits. If their team did not play there and was not a direct beneficiary, they would not want their money spent on it.

[Rhody15]

PC fans however had no issue with the state spending in excess of $100M to purchase and renovate the DDC. Look for them now to push for more public taxpayer money to fix its leaky roof.

Well I mean, they do play at The Dunk.

Why would/should they have a problem with money being spent to improve their home arena?

They should have an issue because it is public tax money going into a facility which mainly benefit private entities (PC and Bruins) that generate profit off the dime of the taxpayer. While the private entities make money, the arena operates deficits. If their team did not play there and was not a direct beneficiary, they would not want their money spent on it.

Yes, people tend to be more inclined to spend their money when it benefits them personally, their family, their school, their job, etc. Its not hard to understand.

The Dunk directly benefits PC, therefore PC fans would be more inclined to spend their money to improve the arena they play in every single season.

Just like we’d be more inclined to vote for a Rhody athletics bond than say, an accountant who went to Roger Williams, hates sports, and lives in Bristol.

[RhowdyRam02]

Thorr Bjorn was on the Rhody Baseline podcast last week and dropped some interesting information about potential bonds for athletic facility improvements.



He begins talking about them at around 13:25. Pardon my poor transcription skills:

"Athletics hasn't been part of, for example facilities, we haven't been part of a bond since the Ryan Center was built. President Parlange knows that, he understands that we do need to get our East stands redone and a new press box and everything, we need a track, we need softball stands, we need baseball stands, we need a boathouse, we need a soccer press box and dugouts. So there's needs and we've done some of the initial architectural engineering work to figure out how much that's going to cost, but I think he understands that at some point that Athletics is going to have to be part of a bond whether two years from now, four years from now, I know the Bay Campus is something that's being discussed soon. Where do we fall in that pecking order and he's made it very clear to me that he understands that and he knows it's important, and we need to do those things. Because there may not be another athletic bond for another 25 years, 27 years, and that's ok because there's a lot of needs that's not a complaint, it is what it is. It's nice to know that we're going to be part of that conversation, we need to be. We've raised a lot of money for the practice facility, that's just about $8 million that we raised, all donors, it's great, it's the biggest fundraising initiative we've ever done. We've got great donors who are very supportive, but we don't have the masses like big time power 5 schools that are able to not only generate revenue from a donor perspective but can also finance things. We can't do that, they can. So we need that bond, we need to be part of that, and I know we will be at some point. I trust that will happen whether again two years, four years, probably not more than six because now we're getting pushed out too far."

Renovated Meade Stadium with new East stands and press box
Outdoor track
Softball stands
Baseball stands
Boathouse
Soccer press box and dugouts

Meade alone costs about $25 to $30 million.

Not sure how reputable this site is: https://sportsvenuecalculator.com/ but they have the
Outdoor track around $544,000 to $1.232 million (we have an 8 lane track and I went with disposal of old track and build instead of resurface because the track has been condemned for over 20 years)

Softball - George Mason (host of the 2022 A10 softball tournament) spent $2.3 million on their renovation in 2009, though that included a complete replacement of the field surface which we just did this past offseason. "In each of the newly constructed sunken dugouts, players have access to private restroom facilities as well as new bullpens. The third base side features a double batting cage. In the seating bowl itself, the stadium features 200 permanent metal seats behind home plate, with grass berm seating for an additional 500 spectators. While walking on the wide concourse, spectators can take advantage of the men's and women's restroom facilities and water fountain. The park features a brand-new public address and sound system as well as a climate-controlled press box." https://gomason.com/facilities/george-m ... -complex/3

Baseball - Fordham (host of the 2022 A10 baseball tournament) spent $4.3 million to renovate their baseball facility in 2005. "The facility underwent a $4.3 million renovation, which included a new drainage system, a new FieldTurf surface, a new scoreboard and sound system, and lights. In addition, new bullpens, recessed dugouts, a 500-seat grandstand, a press box and a renovated entrance were also a part of the new look of the complex." "In 2012, Houlihan Park got another new addition with a full-color video scoreboard, made by Daktronics. The new display has the ability to show video, in game statistics, and more. In summer 2014, the surface of Houlihan Park was replaced, while a new outfield wall and batting cage area (behind right field) were installed. In addition, a Daktronics sound system was installed on top of the scoreboard." I don't think we'll be looking at $4.3 million necessarily but we are probably almost due to have the field resurfaced, we don't have lights, and the seating and press box would be essentially brand new I'm assuming.

Boathouse - No fucking clue. Sorry, there's a limit to my research ability.

Soccer - again, not really sure, especially since it seems we wouldn't be doing anything to the field and stands.

So you're looking at $32.144 million to $37.832 million, minus softball field replacement, plus a boathouse, plus soccer dug outs and a press box just for the projects he named off the top of his head.

So the $35-$40 million question is how do we go about paying for transformational changes to the facilities of 9 of our programs? Thorr mentioned the last bond for athletics was for the Ryan Center, however that bond never went before the voters. And we had a $6.7 million bond in 2004 for athletics that 65.5% of RIers voted against. The timeline he threw out there didn't seem to allow for the Ryan Center bond to be paid for and kind of roll that over. Only thing I can think of then would be Rhode Island Health and Educational Building Corporation bonds. We're using them for multiple projects on campus already, such as the Memorial Union expansion and renovation, so obviously taking out those bonds doesn't require going out to the voters. Interestingly it also seems like you can fund athletic facilities with these. When you go to the following website:

https://rihebc.com/accountability-trans ... tal-plans/

They have a picture of Bryant's athletic building. So is that the play? If so, is there any reason we're waiting? If we're doing it this way we don't have to wait for an election cycle. How would we pay these bonds back? Obviously still a lot of questions, but this is the current lay of the land as best as I can scope things out

Latest information I came across is we're looking to put up a general obligation bond to voters in the November of 24 election for $82.3 million for Meade, the outdoor track, Beck, the soccer complex, the softball field, and pool repairs. Oh by the way, we're also trying for a $77.6 million general obligation bond in the same election for a life sciences building. $160 million, no big deal, just pocket change between friends.

I really hope they know something about the voters I don't or they have some kind of campaign lined up that I can't even imagine, because if what I came across is accurate, the absolute smackdown the voters are going to deliver won't even be able to be described in words currently in existence, and this might sink the life sciences building with it. Remember, in 2004 we tried a $6.7 million bond for athletics and 65.5% voted against it, what do we think this outcome will look like? Also, we're going to wait another two years to take action on any of these items just for the inevitable no, then what? Does Meade have another two years? The outdoor track obviously doesn't. What's the plan for fixing these facilities once this fails? I don't get it

Edited to add: They're hoping to use ARPA funds for the life sciences building, however if that doesn't work it will go on the bond with the athletics complex

[OBRAM]

I doubt the Athletic Bonds would be approved.
RIC got bond money for a Performance Center, and it always seems empty to me, but the voters approved that I believe.

The State of RI is flush with money and the candy store is open to 11 PM these days. How much money did MdKee spend on vaccination bonuses, at least $11 million, and maybe closer to $20 Million?

[RF1]

I doubt the Athletic Bonds would be approved.

Agreed. If voters rejected a URI athletics facilities bond in 2004 for just $6.7M, they are not going to vote for an $80M+ bond anytime soon.

[ramster]

I doubt the Athletic Bonds would be approved.
RIC got bond money for a Performance Center, and it always seems empty to me, but the voters approved that I believe.

The State of RI is flush with money and the candy store is open to 11 PM these days. How much money did MdKee spend on vaccination bonuses, at least $11 million, and maybe closer to $20 Million?

Very, very flush with money. They gave out tons of money to judges, state employees, etc as Retention Bonuses - like any of those people with cushy government jobs were at risk of going anywhere else.

In January of this year Rhode Island had not spent ANY of the $1.1 Billion American Rescue Plan Money for Covid. Don't know why this money doesn't go back to the Federal Government but all states are doing the same thing. You would think that the US doesn't have any National Debt.


From this article January 4, 2022..............

Rhode Island lawmakers overwhelmingly approved spending $119 million in federal pandemic relief money Tuesday when they returned to the State House to start the new legislative session.
Rhode Island got more than $1.1 billion in American Rescue Plan funds, but has yet to spend any of it. The legislation approves roughly 10% of the money for supporting children, families and the child care industry; assisting small businesses impacted by COVID-19; promoting affordable housing and helping people without housing; and helping the hard-hit tourism, hospitality and event industries.

Why not allocate some of this $1.1 Billion to the State Flagship University to remedy the unsafe East Football Stands? What about all the money saved by letting the Pawtucket Red Sox go to Worcester? Where did that end up?

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus- ... 52d8b601d2

[RF1]

I do not know how they do it, but the money losing Dunkin Donuts Center never seems to have issues getting money for its upgrades.

2005 $100M+ is allocated by the state to purchase and renovate the DDC
2018 $??? Upgraded HVAC and ice chiller installed
2018 $700k New Scoreboard installed
2022 $8M+ approved for new roof. Dimeo selected contractor in April-2022

Not a single project listed above ever went before the voters in a bond referendum.

[RhowdyRam02]

I doubt the Athletic Bonds would be approved.
RIC got bond money for a Performance Center, and it always seems empty to me, but the voters approved that I believe.

The State of RI is flush with money and the candy store is open to 11 PM these days. How much money did MdKee spend on vaccination bonuses, at least $11 million, and maybe closer to $20 Million?

Very, very flush with money. They gave out tons of money to judges, state employees, etc as Retention Bonuses - like any of those people with cushy government jobs were at risk of going anywhere else.

In January of this year Rhode Island had not spent ANY of the $1.1 Billion American Rescue Plan Money for Covid. Don't know why this money doesn't go back to the Federal Government but all states are doing the same thing. You would think that the US doesn't have any National Debt.


From this article January 4, 2022..............

Rhode Island lawmakers overwhelmingly approved spending $119 million in federal pandemic relief money Tuesday when they returned to the State House to start the new legislative session.
Rhode Island got more than $1.1 billion in American Rescue Plan funds, but has yet to spend any of it. The legislation approves roughly 10% of the money for supporting children, families and the child care industry; assisting small businesses impacted by COVID-19; promoting affordable housing and helping people without housing; and helping the hard-hit tourism, hospitality and event industries.

Why not allocate some of this $1.1 Billion to the State Flagship University to remedy the unsafe East Football Stands? What about all the money saved by letting the Pawtucket Red Sox go to Worcester? Where did that end up?

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus- ... 52d8b601d2

URI is trying to get $77.6 million of the ARPA funds for a new life sciences building. I would bet there are specific things you can and can't spend the ARPA funds on, which is why we're looking at a life sciences building. I doubt football stands would be an allowable expenditure

[RhowdyRam02]

I do not know how they do it, but the money losing Dunkin Donuts Center never seems to have issues getting money for its upgrades.

2005 $100M+ is allocated by the state to purchase and renovate the DDC
2018 $??? Upgraded HVAC and ice chiller installed
2018 $700k New Scoreboard installed
2022 $8M+ approved for new roof. Dimeo selected contractor in April-2022

Not a single project listed above ever went before the voters in a bond referendum.

Must be nice!

[Jdrums#3]

I do not know how they do it, but the money losing Dunkin Donuts Center never seems to have issues getting money for its upgrades.

2005 $100M+ is allocated by the state to purchase and renovate the DDC
2018 $??? Upgraded HVAC and ice chiller installed
2018 $700k New Scoreboard installed
2022 $8M+ approved for new roof. Dimeo selected contractor in April-2022

Not a single project listed above ever went before the voters in a bond referendum.

Must be nice!

Solely based on my experience from being involved on the periphery, these are some of the reasons - including but not limited to and in no particular order of importance:

Providence being the capital city
Providence as the largest population center
Economic benefits to the city
Economic benefits to local businesses
PC political lobbying
PC alumni involvement in state gov’t, state agencies
PC alumni involvement in Providence City Gov
The Dunk being a flagship venue for the cap city and state
Corp visibility

This is part of the terrain. The terrain can be offset, overcome, modified, shifted, bypassed, etc. President Dooley understood this and maneuvered the university through it very well, based off of my experience, on behalf of the university as a whole. I am confident he shared his knowledge and experience with President Parlange so that even more strides can be made. It is very do-able. The university has many strengths and provides much value to the state as the state’s flagship university.

Good discussion.

[ramster]

I do not know how they do it, but the money losing Dunkin Donuts Center never seems to have issues getting money for its upgrades.

2005 $100M+ is allocated by the state to purchase and renovate the DDC
2018 $??? Upgraded HVAC and ice chiller installed
2018 $700k New Scoreboard installed
2022 $8M+ approved for new roof. Dimeo selected contractor in April-2022

Not a single project listed above ever went before the voters in a bond referendum.

Must be nice!

Solely based on my experience from being involved on the periphery, these are some of the reasons - including but not limited to and in no particular order of importance:

Providence being the capital city
Providence as the largest population center
Economic benefits to the city
Economic benefits to local businesses
PC political lobbying
PC alumni involvement in state gov’t, state agencies
PC alumni involvement in Providence City Gov
The Dunk being a flagship venue for the cap city and state
Corp visibility

This is part of the terrain. The terrain can be offset, overcome, modified, shifted, bypassed, etc. President Dooley understood this and maneuvered the university through it very well, based off of my experience, on behalf of the university as a whole. I am confident he shared his knowledge and experience with President Parlange so that even more strides can be made. It is very do-able. The university has many strengths and provides much value to the state as the state’s flagship university.

Good discussion.

Meanwhile I drive to Worcester to watch the WooSox

[Bartoburger]

Does anyone know if there is a formal plan to renovate Meade Stadium? Also, what would the new capacity be? I was shocked to see how well URI football drew a few years ago for the thriller home game (of course a loss) to Delaware-first night game. If they continue to win I can see the Rams averaging in the 10k-11k range. The renovations should be able to handle graduation and concerts. 15k I think is a good number that will handle crowds for night games. Heck UConn's old Memorial stadium held around 16k and Mansfield/Storrs is more remote than Kingston when you start getting the traffic excuses for a larger capacity stadium.

[RhowdyRam02]

As best I can tell there is no formal plan, just the two different renderings of what it could look like that are about four years old now

[Bartoburger]

That is a shame. I have to say Rhode Island has great fans given how the state puts absolutely a minimal amount of money into the Football Program. Even UNH updated their stadium. URI should have done this years ago, and their recruiting would have benefited. Now complete the rebuild of the stands, and add some end zone seats/bleachers- the environment will be great for FCS/small D1 football. Minimum capacity should be around 12-13k, not including standing room. I loved the old renderings which are years old. Go URI!