Conference Realignment

[Jdrums#3]

Great pick up, Jersey. I just saw this. This is a huge development, imho. And, the comment by Nicole Auerbach, you posted, is a big statement. I wonder what the ACC thinks of her comment?

Imho, I believe Nicole’s comment has more to do with football. I could envision two mega football conferences with an expanded championship playoff. And perhaps, basketball (and other sports) remains as is (with maybe potential tweaks?) for a longer period of time to maintain the NCAA Tourney - which draws huge interest and revenue, too.

Question for my fellow KB’ers: Is it absolutely necessary for football to have to abide by the same conference alignments as basketball and other sports? To me, the answer is no because of the huge difference in revenue and interest in football. Also because I do not believe football tradition/rivalries are no longer seen as valuable as the potential revenue. Why should football be committed to a conference system with other sports? Football is a beast and the beast is even beyond similar education related philosophies and geography that formulated some conferences (excluding the Ivy League) years ago, imho.

Football is driving major change but those changes do not have to come at the expense of basketball (and other sports). Imho, there are ways to restructure football and keep other sports as is. Anyway, I hope so.

Wow, things are moving fast.

[Jdrums#3]

I just read a report from The Spun that the Big 10 is also eyeing Oregon, Stanford, Washington and maybe, Utah and/or Colorado, too, with USC and UCLA already in the fold.

That’s more huge news.

[RF1]

[theblueram]

This is all about football? Maybe I'm naive but football plays 12 games. In a 20 team conference, what does that look like? In a basketball setting, that's a full season of games just in conference.

[Rhody74]

This is all about football? Maybe I'm naive but football plays 12 games. In a 20 team conference, what does that look like? In a basketball setting, that's a full season of games just in conference.

Probably East-West divisions.

[Jdrums#3]

This is all about football? Maybe I'm naive but football plays 12 games. In a 20 team conference, what does that look like? In a basketball setting, that's a full season of games just in conference.

The speculation is that they could add games to go to 14, maybe. But yes, the two mega conferences will be too large for each team to play the other in conference.

The demand should be there for more games and for the two mega conferences to play a crossover challenge for football.

According to the SEC channel (Paul Feinbaum), the SEC will very likely expand again - to match Big 10 expansion - by adding the better football schools from the ACC - namely, Clemson and perhaps Miami, FSU and/or a few others.

At that point, the ACC would be severely weakened like the Big 12 has been.

[Jdrums#3]

I say break off football all together. Leave basketball and the other sports alone.

[theblueram]

I say break off football all together. Leave basketball and the other sports alone.

I agree. There needs to be football, then Division 1 sports.

[Rhodymob05]

This is absurd.

[Rhody74]

It’s official.

https://news.si.com/usc-ucla-officially ... ten-pac-12

[rjv]

We value the talent and dedication of our student-athletes as well as the passion of Bruins fans far and wide.

its about the Student-Athlete and the Fans not the money$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Jdrums#3]

I fail to see the point of athletic conferences when they have so many teams that they cannot play each other. It just doesn’t make sense to me athletically. However, it makes sense economically but, to me as a causal college football fan, the large conferences do nothing for my level of interest.

The two football mega conferences should just drop the pretense and adopt the NFL model: 2 conferences (AFC/NFC); 4 divisions each conference, scheduling and playoff set up. Why not do it? Heck, it’s barely college football anymore; it’s more a pro league now than it is college football.

People can really f’ up a good thing when they put their minds to it. Shit show.

[Rhodymob05]

The regional history and culture and rivalries are being destroyed. That’s what makes college sports great. NCAA is lost.

[RamStock]

The regional history and culture and rivalries are being destroyed. That’s what makes college sports great. NCAA is lost.

Agree completely. How did the NCAA find a way to ruin both college football and basketball in so many ways. Conference realignment, transfer portal and everything else that has taken place. College sports doesn't have the same excitement that it used to.

[Jdrums#3]

How long before the more popular brands in the two mega conferences start complaining about the laggard programs and look to ditch them because they feel like they are carrying them?

[RhodyKyle]

Can't wait for the super hyped up USC/Rutgers game at 11pm on a Tuesday.../s

[RF1]

The moves of USC and UCLA will have a huge ripple effect across all of D1 college athletics. It will not be restricted to only D1 football. Look for a domino effect to follow with a lot of movement in the current power conferences with rumors the Big Ten is not finished and this will likely cause the SEC to react. All of the present P-5 leagues may not survive. This will in turn have a ripple effect on other conferences. There are already some rumors that Kansas may be contemplating the Big East as its football program is not attractive to super leagues with D1 football. This may be another big shakeup similar to what happened some ten years go with all the conference realignment. That round of change eventually affected the A-10 as it lost Xavier, Butler, Temple, and Charlotte.

[Jdrums#3]

Good points, RF1. The era of the P5 is done. We now have the era of the P2.

The top branded mbb programs with non-P2 football programs have to make choices now - programs like Kansas, Duke, UNC, etc.

If the ACC loses Clemson and possibly Miami and FSU, I think it is toast as a football conference. It won’t be on the level of the P2.

If I was Kansas, I would consider joining the ACC before the NBE.

Will be interesting to see what Notre Dame plans to do. Will they remain independent or try to align with a conference? Maybe ND decides to go to the Big 10?

I think there will be many dominoes yet to fall.

[Obadiah]

Yes, this will have major effects in college sports, but the major impact will hit the FBS football schools. There may be some collateral effect on the A-10 membership, but that threat has always existed since the conference has an unbalanced membership and includes several schools attractive to any Big East expansion. The USC/UCLA move may accelerate any BE action and there is no other conference for the Big East to poach other than the A-10.

The goal of the A-10 should keep its basketbal-centric conference at a high level enough to challenge the BE. A long time trend is for conference alignments to feature broad geographic span and you see that highlighted in the A-10 announcement on Loyola's admittance when they mention the addition of the large Chicago media market to go along with Philly and NYC. So any future adds to A-10 should not be confined solely to northeast schools.

[Jdrums#3]

Ob, I think initially, the NBE will look for opportunities with the upper tier, well branded, mbb programs that are left out of the P2 and will be checking out of the football arms race at the highest level.

If that doesn’t work, then I think they look at selected A10 schools and other similar level conference programs for expansion.

[PeterRamTime]

Good points, RF1. The era of the P5 is done. We now have the era of the P2.

The top branded mbb programs with non-P2 football programs have to make choices now - programs like Kansas, Duke, UNC, etc.

If the ACC loses Clemson and possibly Miami and FSU, I think it is toast as a football conference. It won’t be on the level of the P2.

If I was Kansas, I would consider joining the ACC before the NBE.

Will be interesting to see what Notre Dame plans to do. Will they remain independent or try to align with a conference? Maybe ND decides to go to the Big 10?

I think there will be many dominoes yet to fall.

Clemson, Florida State, Miami, GA Tech to the SEC or something like it.

[Jdrums#3]

I mentioned a few weeks back - I don’t recall which thread - that I thought big time college football would end up with a separate national championship system made up of 30 or so schools. But, I thought we would be looking at 10 years out? I never thought the push would come this fast.

[Obadiah]

Ob, I think initially, the NBE will look for opportunities with the upper tier, well branded, mbb programs that are left out of the P2 and will be checking out of the football arms race at the highest level.

If that doesn’t work, then I think they look at selected A10 schools and other similar level conference programs for expansion.

I hear you, but I think you generalize too much. What specific schools in the ACC and the remnants of the B12 and PAC12 would be candidates for a move to the BE you suggest? Just the effort required to find a home for their football program is a daunting task for any such school.

On your second point, in the last reorganization of the BE they pilfered teams from the A-10, MVC, and Conference USA. Today the main conference left for them to poach is the A-10. What conferences/schools do feel would fall into your referenced "similar level conference programs"?

[rjv]

I believe that if the BE does expand, St. Louis will be on their radar.
Strong grogram, no football and a Jesuit School which will fit in nicely with the BE
Also building a new athletic facility.
VCU could also be on their radar. Winning track record, no football and location.

[woodennickel1]

Ob, I think initially, the NBE will look for opportunities with the upper tier, well branded, mbb programs that are left out of the P2 and will be checking out of the football arms race at the highest level.

If that doesn’t work, then I think they look at selected A10 schools and other similar level conference programs for expansion.

I hear you, but I think you generalize too much. What specific schools in the ACC and the remnants of the B12 and PAC12 would be candidates for a move to the BE you suggest? Just the effort required to find a home for their football program is a daunting task for any such school.

On your second point, in the last reorganization of the BE they pilfered teams from the A-10, MVC, and Conference USA. Today the main conference left for them to poach is the A-10. What conferences/schools do feel would fall into your referenced "similar level conference programs"?

Don't think the Big East will be adding anyone unless it's a major add like Notre Dame or Kansas ( who I personally do not want). They really like the round robin and don't think they will be able to do that with 12.

[Jersey77]

Ob, I think initially, the NBE will look for opportunities with the upper tier, well branded, mbb programs that are left out of the P2 and will be checking out of the football arms race at the highest level.

If that doesn’t work, then I think they look at selected A10 schools and other similar level conference programs for expansion.

I hear you, but I think you generalize too much. What specific schools in the ACC and the remnants of the B12 and PAC12 would be candidates for a move to the BE you suggest? Just the effort required to find a home for their football program is a daunting task for any such school.

On your second point, in the last reorganization of the BE they pilfered teams from the A-10, MVC, and Conference USA. Today the main conference left for them to poach is the A-10. What conferences/schools do feel would fall into your referenced "similar level conference programs"?

Don't think the Big East will be adding anyone unless it's a major add like Notre Dame or Kansas ( who I personally do not want). They really like the round robin and don't think they will be able to do that with 12.

Last year, it was mentioned that Gonzaga would be the only school that would make sense and move the needle for the BE.

Geographically and logistically, Gonzaga may not entertain it and stay in the WCC.

[rjv]

Notre Dame left the BE because of football. They are not coming back. The BE is not adding any school that has a football program. Gonzaga is across the country that are not going anywhere except the PAC12.

[PeterRamTime]

Notre Dame left the BE because of football. They are not coming back. The BE is not adding any school that has a football program. Gonzaga is across the country that are not going anywhere except the PAC12.

They won't go to the PAC12 because of football.

[Obadiah]

Ob, I think initially, the NBE will look for opportunities with the upper tier, well branded, mbb programs that are left out of the P2 and will be checking out of the football arms race at the highest level.

If that doesn’t work, then I think they look at selected A10 schools and other similar level conference programs for expansion.

I hear you, but I think you generalize too much. What specific schools in the ACC and the remnants of the B12 and PAC12 would be candidates for a move to the BE you suggest? Just the effort required to find a home for their football program is a daunting task for any such school.

On your second point, in the last reorganization of the BE they pilfered teams from the A-10, MVC, and Conference USA. Today the main conference left for them to poach is the A-10. What conferences/schools do feel would fall into your referenced "similar level conference programs"?

Don't think the Big East will be adding anyone unless it's a major add like Notre Dame or Kansas ( who I personally do not want). They really like the round robin and don't think they will be able to do that with 12.

Sorry, but you are delusional to even suggest Notre Dame and Kansas would consider such a move. It shows how fans of baskeball-centric schools without football do not understand the degree to which big time football is driving the college athletics bus.

[Jersey77]

Notre Dame left the BE because of football. They are not coming back. The BE is not adding any school that has a football program. Gonzaga is across the country that are not going anywhere except the PAC12.

Some still think the Zags to the BE is a possibility.

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=16b9b39c ... wMDQ&ntb=1

""However, I don’t think the Zags end up there. I think they end up in the Big East.

The WCC is a basketball conference. Gonzaga wants to be in a basketball conference and the Big East is THE college basketball conference in the country. We know there were rumors a few months ago about this happening, and all I’m going to say is that those didn’t come from nowhere.

Yes, the travel is difficult, but Gonzaga flies on private jets all the time. They live like travel kings."

[woodennickel1]

I hear you, but I think you generalize too much. What specific schools in the ACC and the remnants of the B12 and PAC12 would be candidates for a move to the BE you suggest? Just the effort required to find a home for their football program is a daunting task for any such school.

On your second point, in the last reorganization of the BE they pilfered teams from the A-10, MVC, and Conference USA. Today the main conference left for them to poach is the A-10. What conferences/schools do feel would fall into your referenced "similar level conference programs"?

Don't think the Big East will be adding anyone unless it's a major add like Notre Dame or Kansas ( who I personally do not want). They really like the round robin and don't think they will be able to do that with 12.

Sorry, but you are delusional to even suggest Notre Dame and Kansas would consider such a move. It shows how fans of baskeball-centric schools without football do not understand the degree to which big time football is driving the college athletics bus.

Never said I thought they would but that it would take a program like that to consider expanding. Kansas imo is very much like UConn their football program sucks. If what happen like a lot of people are suggesting and there is two twenty team leagues and they could be one of the teams on the outside looking in. Obviously they would never leave while still getting the football money. Notre Dame is still one of the few teams that could go independently in football and still play other sports in the Big east. If the ACC were to fall apart.

[rjv]

Gonzaga will not go to the Pac12 because of football....my error.

They will not go to the BE. I just don't see it. The traveling for every away game. Their fans will not accept that at all

ACC is very strong. It is going nowhere.

[woodennickel1]

Gonzaga will not go to the Pac12 because of football....my error.

They will not go to the BE. I just don't see it. The traveling for every away game. Their fans will not accept that at all

ACC is very strong. It is going nowhere.

Some rumors have ACC losing Clemson, Florida State ,Miami and possibly Georgia Tech. Won't be quite as strong if that were to happen. Especially in football.

[Jdrums#3]

Ob, I think initially, the NBE will look for opportunities with the upper tier, well branded, mbb programs that are left out of the P2 and will be checking out of the football arms race at the highest level.

If that doesn’t work, then I think they look at selected A10 schools and other similar level conference programs for expansion.

I hear you, but I think you generalize too much. What specific schools in the ACC and the remnants of the B12 and PAC12 would be candidates for a move to the BE you suggest? Just the effort required to find a home for their football program is a daunting task for any such school.

On your second point, in the last reorganization of the BE they pilfered teams from the A-10, MVC, and Conference USA. Today the main conference left for them to poach is the A-10. What conferences/schools do feel would fall into your referenced "similar level conference programs"?

Good questions…

I could see the NBE soliciting Kansas (if Kansas steps back it’s football program if not accepted to the P2 (Big 10 & SEC), Duke (if UNC goes Big 10 or SEC and Duke isn’t invited to follow).

I am no expert ( I am just a CFB casual fan/follower) but, I agree with what some Big 10 commentators said on the Big 10 Network that UNC is a great Big 10 fit (educationally, philosophically, athletically) but that UNC and Duke are tied at the hip (like USC & UCLA). So they feel that if UNC is invited to the Big 10 then, Duke will too. Although, the issue with the ACC is that the conference has a Grant of Rights Agreement (I may be wrong as to the agreement name) that locks the schools in until 2034-35 I believe. But from what experts said as I watched the Big 10 and SEC Networks yesterday, ACC schools - not named - have lawyers now looking for loopholes to escape the agreement.

Other NBE targets ( if their top mbb branded targets are scooped up by the P2) could be Gonzaga, Memphis (Especially if they are locked out of the P2), St Louis, VCU, Dayton (despite Xavier if it is a question of survival).

To me, it is all dependent on football, the P2 expanding to 18-20 schools each, Notre Dame deciding on whether to remain Indy or jump to the Big 10 (according to the Big 10 Network, the conference wants ND and will hold expansion until ND decides on what to do), and the ACC agreement legal challenges that are expected.

Which football schools are left out of the P2 sweepstakes will determine where the dominoes fall, imho. At that point those schools either continue to commit resources to football (likely knowing they can’t compete on the P2 National Championship level) or begin the process of de-emphasizing football.

From what I have watched the last few days (on the SEC Network, Big 10 Network, ESPN ) and read on-line (various CFB media outlets) the following are top expansion targets for the P2 going to 18-20 schools each: Notre Dame (B10), Oregon (B10), Washington (B10), Stanford (B10), UNC (B10), Clemson (SEC), Miami (SEC), GTech (SEC), FSU (SEC).

If Oregon isn’t invited to the B10, they will push for an SEC invite. The B10 will only take ND if they are all in ( they will not take them on with the ACC type deal they have). If UNC goes B10 Duke will follow. Kansas has a possibility of a B10 invite depending on what happens with ND and other targets.

There appears to be a consensus between the B10, SEC and ESPN networks as to the schools I outlined above for P2 expansion. To me they make sense and follow what I have long thought would happen (that 30 or so of the top branded CFB programs would consolidate their power and money - same as has historically happened in other industries (so, these scenarios confirm my bias).

Again, I have no special insight. I am just following the breadcrumbs laid out by experts employed or interviewed by the B10, SEC, ESPN networks and they make a lot of sense. How the P2 shakes out (based on what is best for football) will determine how the remaining basketball centric conferences adapt. Hopefully, the P2 leave their lust for power and money at football and basketball (and other sports) doesn’t end up in a P2 dominant football national championship type system.

[Jdrums#3]

Notre Dame left the BE because of football. They are not coming back. The BE is not adding any school that has a football program. Gonzaga is across the country that are not going anywhere except the PAC12.

Some still think the Zags to the BE is a possibility.

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=16b9b39c ... wMDQ&ntb=1

""However, I don’t think the Zags end up there. I think they end up in the Big East.

The WCC is a basketball conference. Gonzaga wants to be in a basketball conference and the Big East is THE college basketball conference in the country. We know there were rumors a few months ago about this happening, and all I’m going to say is that those didn’t come from nowhere.

Yes, the travel is difficult, but Gonzaga flies on private jets all the time. They live like travel kings."

Jersey, from what I have been watching (B10, SEC, ESPN networks) and reading online, geography isn’t an issue anymore as the B10 just showed.

That said, I am not convinced Gonzaga can maintain its dominance (and brand) when Few retires. So it is hard for me to figure what they might do. For financial reasons, if they want to remain relevant at the current level, they could try for an
NBE invite and try to drag 2-3 conference members with them.

Also, it could depend on what happens with Kansas. According to the P2 TV networks, if Kansas is left out of the P2 then they could very well decide to de-emphasize football and go all in on bb. If they do that then I think they become a NBE target. Then maybe the NBE makes more sense for Gonzaga alone if they want to continue to be relevant.

Many dominoes have to fall first before that happens, imho.

[Jersey77]

Notre Dame left the BE because of football. They are not coming back. The BE is not adding any school that has a football program. Gonzaga is across the country that are not going anywhere except the PAC12.

Some still think the Zags to the BE is a possibility.

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=16b9b39c ... wMDQ&ntb=1

""However, I don’t think the Zags end up there. I think they end up in the Big East.

The WCC is a basketball conference. Gonzaga wants to be in a basketball conference and the Big East is THE college basketball conference in the country. We know there were rumors a few months ago about this happening, and all I’m going to say is that those didn’t come from nowhere.

Yes, the travel is difficult, but Gonzaga flies on private jets all the time. They live like travel kings."

Jersey, from what I have been watching (B10, SEC, ESPN networks) and reading online, geography isn’t an issue anymore as the B10 just showed.

That said, I am not convinced Gonzaga can maintain its dominance (and brand) when Few retires. So it is hard for me to figure what they might do. For financial reasons, if they want to remain relevant at the current level, they could try for an
NBE invite and try to drag 2-3 conference members with them.

Also, it could depend on what happens with Kansas. According to the P2 TV networks, if Kansas is left out of the P2 then they could very well decide to de-emphasize football and go all in on bb. If they do that then I think they become a NBE target. Then maybe the NBE makes more sense for Gonzaga alone if they want to continue to be relevant.

Many dominoes have to fall first before that happens, imho.

Geography has become much less of an issue, we now have USC, UCLA, along with with Maryland Rutgers, and Penn State in the B10.

There are so many scenarios that can still play out.

I wouldn't mind the A10 expanding to 16, and am okay if that meant adding another Midwest school.

[the_one_mike]

This gets hard to follow at a certain point. Considering virtually all history has been abandoned, do these conferences go all the way and rename/rebrand, too?

This obviously severely damages the Pac12… and if everything plays out as rumored with the SEC, the ACC will be the same. The B12 is also strip mined.

That leaves some major name brand players in the PAC12, ACC seeking a home by 2025. Add ND, KU and Gonzaga to the mix and does a whole new conference just spawn out of that to compete on a national level? Seems like a major media opportunity and immediately competitive with, if not superior to the B12 in most regards.

I’m curious where we end up standing in all of this, do we have a chance to jump ship as the ACC and BE pick scraps out of what’s left? The A10 has a confusing composition at this point, this well known… and now seems to be a “shit or get off the pot” moment for the conference as a whole.

If the A10 doesn’t react, Dayton and UMass all seem likely potential targets for the B12 or ACC. VCU and SLU would look very nice to the BE or ACC. That leaves us outside looking in under most circumstances… we do not want to be lord of the flies in a decimated A10 that merges with MVC.

Considering the huge push this year with MBB and renewed focus on WBB, I would imagine this is a well known issue Thorr is trying to get ahead of... We need to be very proactive here. If we find ourselves outsiders as this all settles in, that could be the nail in the coffin for athletics as we know it at URI. It would be hard to justify season tickets in the event the aforementioned A10/MVC potential became our reality.

What are our options? Hard to say. Aspirationally, I would say the ACC. But I do suspect that ultimately the leftovers of the ACC and PAC12 form some kind of super conference with East and West divisions. That leaves the BE. We have a built in rivalry with PC there. A historic rivalry with UConn with renewed context. Geographically in the right place. We have the history. It’s a fit in many regards…

What we are missing for that to be a real case is brand image and media influence; this also seems to be a focus with rebranding coming up this year (though I do think the ram logo was a bit of a miss, not off to a hot start). Big couple seasons here for Rhody.

Not too much pressure, Archie, but the future of URI athletics likely lies in the hands of your success over these next two years

[RIFan]

With that context, the last 4 years were very unfortunate bad timing. We needed to continue to build on what Hurley did, not take that step or 2 back, we are running out of time to establish ourselves as a consistent winner that is committed.

[rjv]

URI will never be part of the BE. The BE is all private schools except for UCONN which was accepted back.
The BE has a very successful formula and an unbelievable contract with FOX that is not going to change. They will pick and choose whom they want in their league. The BE is in control.

It is correct that URI had a very bad 4 years and needs to rebuild its image. With the hiring of Archie and the WBB program that is a start. Hopefully it is not too late! I believe the A!0 may soon be a yesterdays news type of conference and to get a quality OC game will be very difficult as will be recruiting.

[RhodyKyle]

Looking like the Pac12 is the first P5 to die. Losing 4 programs to the Big12.

[the_one_mike]

URI will never be part of the BE. The BE is all private schools except for UCONN which was accepted back.
The BE has a very successful formula and an unbelievable contract with FOX that is not going to change. They will pick and choose whom they want in their league. The BE is in control.

It is correct that URI had a very bad 4 years and needs to rebuild its image. With the hiring of Archie and the WBB program that is a start. Hopefully it is not too late! I believe the A!0 may soon be a yesterdays news type of conference and to get a quality OC game will be very difficult as will be recruiting.

The world has changed. A lot. I wouldn’t say never here.

As evidenced by all of these other moves, if it’s profitable it’s going to be entertained. And, point blank, in comparison to other markets, college sports have very minimal penetration in New England. But, simultaneously, New England has one of the most profitable markets for pro sports…

The potential for media growth in the college game is huge here, probably the biggest upside market in the country. And it has existed in the past. A smart league would see that opportunity. Consider the built in rivalry with PC and you already have at least one game per season that will drive good revenue.

Then there is the Hurley connection at UConn and you have another story to build. URI also has a recent win against Creighton in the tournament. More stuff the media loves to build on.

You may be correct that the BE has a strong model NOW… but the reality is that with these reconferencing moves based on football, the entire BE are all becoming second tier schools in the grand scheme of sports media, whether they like to admit that or not. The true question is, as they “fall” a bit, can we step up to that new second tier level?

In my opinion, the BE’s media penetration will be based on rivalries moving forward… there is not a strong enough draw on a national level for a DePaul vs St. John’s game anymore. That’s just the reality. Because of that, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to imagine a BE that expands their composition a bit to admit more public schools…

It’s not too big a stretch to imagine the top teams in the A10 jumping ship as follows:
1. Dayton to B12 or AAC (as basketball/football school)
2. UMass to B12 or AAC (another basketball/football school)
3. VCU to BE or ACC
4. URI to BE or ACC
5. Loyola to BE (composition, location)
6. SLU to BE (composition, location)
7. SBU to BE (composition, location)

That leaves behind a few schools that still would have a chance to take a step up in conference under the right circumstances:
1. Davidson to ACC (location, history) (a big stretch but possible)
2. Richmond to BE (built in rivalry with VCU)

Definitely understand that this might seem like a hard sell in the historic lens of NCAA sports… but that ship has clearly sailed. We are in a new era.

I do imagine conferences will continue getting larger at all levels in response to the football ideology. It gives the league more flexibility in scheduling for their best-performing teams against each other… the idea is they want to have a pool of teams that will always have high-caliber performance to match up. Easiest way to guarantee that your best teams have good in conference matchups? Have a larger pool of teams and schedule conference match ups based on in-season performance.

All of this doesn’t even take into account the additional media potential of player likeness - this will also become an important cog in this media & profit driven NCAA model. Star power will be key for any and all schools looking to expand their brand and influence…

A lot to consider. I guess my point is: a month ago I’m sure it’s not unlikely you and others would say USC and UCLA will ‘never’ be in the Big 10. Times are-a-changin my dude!

[Obadiah]

I'm not one to speculate on the P2/P5 transition, and this developing story is important only because of the ripple effects on the A-10 and URI. The move to the B10 by USC/UCLA is simply motivated by the increased TV revenue which will allow those schools to maintain their athletics competitiveness which they felt was endangered by the poorer TV deals of the PAC 12. Do not underestimate the power of the media - ESPN, Fox et al - in playing a role in what unfolds.

The evolving super leagues will offer up more attractive pairings of games in football and basketball weekly. It is that competitive scenario that will drive the BE to expand its membership from the current 11 members. As I mentioned in my retort to Jdrums#3, the A-10 is where the BE will poach teams because. I do not see any schools with FBS football programs willing to give up that position to join the BE.

Some have argued otherwise and offered up BE targets. For example, Notre Dame. But the Irish have bigger fish to fry and why on the reorganizing of the BE didn't they stay with the new BE instead of opting for a deal with the ACC.? I think that speaks for itself.

Gonzaga makes no sense. What UCLA and USC gets in just the incremental TV revenue will support their Olympic sports in flying cross country. Gonzaga lacks big time football to do that. Don't think for a minute their rowing, golf, track teams are going to fly private jets to BE locations.

As for Kansas, ludicrous to say their football program is like UConn. Kansas is a charter member of the old Big Eight back to 1908 while UConn is a come lately add. KU has the oldest stadium west of the Mississippi and has poured $30 million in renovations. Unlike UConn, Kansas has a big in-statel rival in Kansas State and don't think the KU officials and fans are not disturbed that K-State currently has a better football program than theirs. To drop all that to join a bunch of Catholic schools in the East make no sense.

The realignment in college athletics actually began in the early 1990's when Arkansas left the SWC and Penn State joined the Big Ten. At that time in an athletics advisory council meeting with Ron Petro, I stated my belief that these moves will eventually affect URI and that the circumstances were beyond URI's control and that our energy should instead be devoted to strengthening each and every sports program we had. There are many facets to that strategy, but facilities because of optics are a critical part. So what has URI done in that 30-year period in response? Well the major move was the construction of the Ryan Center, but beyond that, the facilities picture at URI is abysmal. On a recent visit to Storrs I saw UConn's beautiful new baseball stadium which just shows how far behind URI has fallen.

"Houston, we have a problem!"

[the_one_mike]

I'm not one to speculate on the P2/P5 transition, and this developing story is important only because of the ripple effects on the A-10 and URI. The move to the B10 by USC/UCLA is simply motivated by the increased TV revenue which will allow those schools to maintain their athletics competitiveness which they felt was endangered by the poorer TV deals of the PAC 12. Do not underestimate the power of the media - ESPN, Fox et al - in playing a role in what unfolds.

The evolving super leagues will offer up more attractive pairings of games in football and basketball weekly. It is that competitive scenario that will drive the BE to expand its membership from the current 11 members. As I mentioned in my retort to Jdrums#3, the A-10 is where the BE will poach teams because. I do not see any schools with FBS football programs willing to give up that position to join the BE.

Some have argued otherwise and offered up BE targets. For example, Notre Dame. But the Irish have bigger fish to fry and why on the reorganizing of the BE didn't they stay with the new BE instead of opting for a deal with the ACC.? I think that speaks for itself.

Gonzaga makes no sense. What UCLA and USC gets in just the incremental TV revenue will support their Olympic sports in flying cross country. Gonzaga lacks big time football to do that. Don't think for a minute their rowing, golf, track teams are going to fly private jets to BE locations.

As for Kansas, ludicrous to say their football program is like UConn. Kansas is a charter member of the old Big Eight back to 1908 while UConn is a come lately add. KU has the oldest stadium west of the Mississippi and has poured $30 million in renovations. Unlike UConn, Kansas has a big in-statel rival in Kansas State and don't think the KU officials and fans are not disturbed that K-State currently has a better football program than theirs. To drop all that to join a bunch of Catholic schools in the East make no sense.

The realignment in college athletics actually began in the early 1990's when Arkansas left the SWC and Penn State joined the Big Ten. At that time in an athletics advisory council meeting with Ron Petro, I stated my belief that these moves will eventually affect URI and that the circumstances were beyond URI's control and that our energy should instead be devoted to strengthening each and every sports program we had. There are many facets to that strategy, but facilities because of optics are a critical part. So what has URI done in that 30-year period in response? Well the major move was the construction of the Ryan Center, but beyond that, the facilities picture at URI is abysmal. On a recent visit to Storrs I saw UConn's beautiful new baseball stadium which just shows how far behind URI has fallen.

"Houston, we have a problem!"

Great post. Agreed on all fronts.

The top tier teams in the A10 will not be part of the league in 5 years at this rate. We need to position ourselves to be winners in that fallout, not losers. Dayton and VCU are likely to be the first ones pilfered and desperation for the rest of the league sets in afterward.

Even with lackluster facilities we would still be competitive in a better league. Generally, I would say on average our program has fielded better teams over the last decade than at least half of the teams in the BE.

The issue here is media. It’s all revenue generation.

When you take that angle, URI has a ton of potential. BUT MAKES NO REAL INVESTMENTS to really grow media exposure… Look at attendance for home games in every key matchup, sell out or near sell out. If you can regularly bring in better games as a result of being in a better league, you are likely to increase the average draw substantially. That’s a built in perk of URI MBB.

But, frankly, our branding is cringeworthy more often than it isn’t. No instant replay in the Ryan. Our marketing material uses fonts that a 13 year old would put on their TikTok. The new ram logo was a miss. Our uniforms are usually awful. For example: our team was so embarrassed by the Adidas ram head shorts they all left their jerseys untucked for media day photos. Then there is that gray abomination with cursive they put out last year. It took a decade to finally break ground on a practice facility. I could keep going but it will just make me mad.

From my perspective, it seems that a major problem with this is the design by committee - an evil that is hard to shake with a public university. Nothing gets done without everyone and anyone having a say and the result almost always seems to be a”livable” compromise that makes nobody happy. That needs to end.

Bold decisions need to be made. The regular “cut football” argument comes to mind. The reality is, even with a degree of renewed success, CAA football is doing absolutely nothing for URI in the grand scheme of athletics media. Do I think the program should be dropped? Not necessarily. But I do think funds from football reinvested into soccer, baseball, T&F, and golf would be more worthwhile. Those programs have all retained a degree of success and it would help bolster the university image in basketball offseason to have teams that win… instead of be a bottom feeder in the best third-tier NCAA football league… for the sake of pretending it adds any value whatsoever.

[RhowdyRam02]

URI will never be part of the BE. The BE is all private schools except for UCONN which was accepted back.
The BE has a very successful formula and an unbelievable contract with FOX that is not going to change. They will pick and choose whom they want in their league. The BE is in control.

It is correct that URI had a very bad 4 years and needs to rebuild its image. With the hiring of Archie and the WBB program that is a start. Hopefully it is not too late! I believe the A!0 may soon be a yesterdays news type of conference and to get a quality OC game will be very difficult as will be recruiting.

The world has changed. A lot. I wouldn’t say never here.

As evidenced by all of these other moves, if it’s profitable it’s going to be entertained. And, point blank, in comparison to other markets, college sports have very minimal penetration in New England. But, simultaneously, New England has one of the most profitable markets for pro sports…

The potential for media growth in the college game is huge here, probably the biggest upside market in the country. And it has existed in the past. A smart league would see that opportunity. Consider the built in rivalry with PC and you already have at least one game per season that will drive good revenue.

Then there is the Hurley connection at UConn and you have another story to build. URI also has a recent win against Creighton in the tournament. More stuff the media loves to build on.

You may be correct that the BE has a strong model NOW… but the reality is that with these reconferencing moves based on football, the entire BE are all becoming second tier schools in the grand scheme of sports media, whether they like to admit that or not. The true question is, as they “fall” a bit, can we step up to that new second tier level?

In my opinion, the BE’s media penetration will be based on rivalries moving forward… there is not a strong enough draw on a national level for a DePaul vs St. John’s game anymore. That’s just the reality. Because of that, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to imagine a BE that expands their composition a bit to admit more public schools…

It’s not too big a stretch to imagine the top teams in the A10 jumping ship as follows:
1. Dayton to B12 or AAC (as basketball/football school)
2. UMass to B12 or AAC (another basketball/football school)
3. VCU to BE or ACC
4. URI to BE or ACC
5. Loyola to BE (composition, location)
6. SLU to BE (composition, location)
7. SBU to BE (composition, location)

That leaves behind a few schools that still would have a chance to take a step up in conference under the right circumstances:
1. Davidson to ACC (location, history) (a big stretch but possible)
2. Richmond to BE (built in rivalry with VCU)

Definitely understand that this might seem like a hard sell in the historic lens of NCAA sports… but that ship has clearly sailed. We are in a new era.

I do imagine conferences will continue getting larger at all levels in response to the football ideology. It gives the league more flexibility in scheduling for their best-performing teams against each other… the idea is they want to have a pool of teams that will always have high-caliber performance to match up. Easiest way to guarantee that your best teams have good in conference matchups? Have a larger pool of teams and schedule conference match ups based on in-season performance.

All of this doesn’t even take into account the additional media potential of player likeness - this will also become an important cog in this media & profit driven NCAA model. Star power will be key for any and all schools looking to expand their brand and influence…

A lot to consider. I guess my point is: a month ago I’m sure it’s not unlikely you and others would say USC and UCLA will ‘never’ be in the Big 10. Times are-a-changin my dude!

I get conference realignment is scary for a lot of people on here because URI has no control over its own fate, but most of these takes are off the wall.

1. Dayton to Big 12?
2. UMass to Big 12?
3. VCU to ACC?
4. URI to Big East or ACC?
5. Davidson to the ACC

Football drives all these decisions. Repeat that as many times as you need to until you realize how foolish 1-3, 5, and URI to the ACC sounds. "But..." No. Seriously, no. Keep repeating football drives all these decisions until you realize how foolish those proposals are.

Now let's tackle the rest of these where it relates to non-football matters, starting with URI. Look, it would be great to get invited to the Big East, and you can make a solid case that we'd be a good add for them, however there's just one giant problem there. Why would PC give up one of its biggest advantages over us and let us in to the Big East? They wouldn't, so we're stuck in the A10. VCU and Saint Louis both make more sense to join the Big East than us from the perspective of the Big East membership. Richmond would also make more sense if for some crazy reason VCU declined an invite. Loyola faces the same problem we have with joining the Big East, there's already a team in their market that probably wants nothing to do with sharing their market with a second Big East team. As for UMass, why would they jump all the way up to the Big 12 when they couldn't even get the American to sniff them in all the moves that happened last summer? Speaking of the American, I didn't dismiss the possibilities you mentioned out of hand but let's take a look at the future AAC as best we can tell right now:

East Carolina, Memphis, South Florida, SMU, Temple, Tulane, Tulsa, Wichita State, UAB, Florida Atlantic, UNC Charlotte, North Texas, Rice, Texas San Antonio.

That is a TERRIBLE basketball conference. The Atlantic 10 is going to be a better basketball conference than that collective in three years time if we're not poached by the Big East in the meantime, but that also assumes the AAC isn't poached either. Why would A10 schools move to that conference as basketball only members? Hell, we should be making overtures to Wichita State if we haven't been all along.

Hey, it sucks that things are changing and we don't control our own destiny, but it's not so scary if we stop inventing possibilities that will never take place in the real world for lots of logical reasons. All we can do is try to use our voice in the conference to make it better. If we can't force the dregs of the conference out try to get rules instituted where they have to use the money they get from the conference to invest more into their men's basketball program. If we admit members make sure they're ones that add value. We've seen that the A10 can be a good basketball only conference that exists a tier below the Big East, now we need the conference to get back to that place

[rjv]

I believe that the BE is going to add one team to make it a 12 team conference and I believe it will be St. Louis. They have the coach and a solid team, a new athletic facility being build which will be connected to the Chaifetz Arena (10600 seating cap). Big revenue stream. This will help with the negotiations of the new media contract between the BE and Fox. The current 12year/500m contract expires in 24-25. which gives each team approx 4 million per year. Adding a team like St. Louis will fits perfectly into the BE. Private Jesuit School with a strong Basketball focuses and no football!!! That is my belief.
Lets also stop talking about URI going to the BE. It is not going to happen.

[ramster]

It’s all about money, football, NIL, TV

UCONN’s move back to the NBE likely to backfire



Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado and Utah were mentioned specifically as the teams being targeted by the Big 12, sources tell CBS Sports. There is also consideration of adding Oregon and Washington to make the Big 12 an 18-team league, the largest in the FBS.
A merger of the Big 12 and Pac-12, in some form, is also a possibility.

"Everything is on the table," said one Big 12 source.

[Rhody15]

*Logs on for shits and giggles*

*Sees someone says URI to ACC*

*Logs back off until November.*

[the_one_mike]

*Logs on for shits and giggles*

*Sees someone says URI to ACC*

*Logs back off until November.*

Yawn. That’s the best you can do?

ACC loses 4 major programs to the SEC, they will be in need of teams to retain a competitive stance. Pool to pull out of is quite limited. While I literally in the post conceded it is quite unlikely, nothing is out of the question anymore.

That said… see you then! I don’t think many people will miss ya, pal.

[rhodylaw]

I think the ACC tries to strengthen and winds up adding the rest of BE leftovers from football in UConn and Memphis, plus grabs WVU and maybe Kansas. Before the Clemons/FSU/Miamia crowd potentially leaves that is a strong enough football conference AND becomes an even bigger force in basketball.

Other than money (I know, I know...) I do not see how Clemson leaving the ACC is a good thing. They are perennial football playoff contenders by being in the best in the weaker conference. The grass is not always greener in the bigger conference in terms of results (even if the money is).

[RhowdyRam02]

I think the ACC tries to strengthen and winds up adding the rest of BE leftovers from football in UConn and Memphis, plus grabs WVU and maybe Kansas. Before the Clemons/FSU/Miamia crowd potentially leaves that is a strong enough football conference AND becomes an even bigger force in basketball.

Other than money (I know, I know...) I do not see how Clemson leaving the ACC is a good thing. They are perennial football playoff contenders by being in the best in the weaker conference. The grass is not always greener in the bigger conference in terms of results (even if the money is).

Really the Big 12 and Notre Dame are causing all of these issues. All of the big conferences keep holding spots hoping Notre Dame will eventually join up. If the Big 12 as it was last summer had just been assigned to different conferences once Texas and Oklahoma announced they were leaving and Notre Dame picked a conference I don't think a lot of this churn is happening that we're seeing since the UCLA and USC announcements. Maybe those two schools still bolt for the Big 10, but almost none of the secondary moves take place, they would have already been sorted out. instead of one giant shift to where everything is just going anyway we get these constant smaller shifts