Conference Realignment

[Jersey77]

"Murray State approved as newest member of Missouri Valley Conference with formal decision coming Friday
The MVC added Belmont in the fall, and now Murray State will also be joining the league."

https://www.cbssports.com/college-baske ... ng-friday/

[RF1]

The MVC is also losing Loyola to the A-10.

[Blue Man]

I really hope the A-10 figures out a way to drop Fordham/La Salle based on their investments/infrastructure alone. Adding doesn't really help if we keep having to play historically 200+ ranked teams.

[Rhody72]

I really hope the A-10 figures out a way to drop Fordham/La Salle based on their investments/infrastructure alone. Adding doesn't really help if we keep having to play historically 200+ ranked teams.

I remember when many here wanted to drop St Bonaventure and Duquesne. Also, conference membershpp should not be based on one sport.

[section(105)]

…….contraction of the league, Fordham/La Salle, is probably not realistic…….unless the A-10 league sets some type of standards of investments, performance standards, facility upgrades etc for what?…….just basketball?……..there is more to the league than just basketball, even though the A-10
Is non big time football and basketball centric…….maybe expansion is an option to develop geographic divisions within the league?…….Fordham types will chart a course for their own exits from the league when their academic/athletic missions/funding are reevaluated……no?

[Jersey77]

The MVC is also losing Loyola to the A-10.

Belmont agreed to join the MVC prior to Loyola Chicago deciding to leave.

I actually think Belmont would've also been a good addition to the A10.
Going to Nashville for games, not a bad thing.
They have also been to 8 NCAAT's (9 if 2020 wasn't canceled) since 2006.

The MVC getting both Belmont and Murray State is not a bad consolation prize after losing Loyola Chicago.'

[Rhode_Island_Red]

Also, conference membershpp should not be based on one sport.

Except that men's basketball is the largest revenue generator for A-10 schools, so the dead weight's continued absence from the NCAA tournament costs all the other members money.

[Obadiah]

…….contraction of the league, Fordham/La Salle, is probably not realistic…….unless the A-10 league sets some type of standards of investments, performance standards, facility upgrades etc for what?…….just basketball?……..there is more to the league than just basketball, even though the A-10
Is non big time football and basketball centric…….maybe expansion is an option to develop geographic divisions within the league?…….Fordham types will chart a course for their own exits from the league when their academic/athletic missions/funding are reevaluated……no?

Very much agree with this perspective. You would think that the overall financial condition of a school would somewhat correlate with athletics success, but then how do you explain Fordham and St. Bonaventure? The two weakest private schools in the A-10 are La Salle and St. Bonaventure, the two most financially secure schools are Richmond and GW.

An enforced contraction of the league is unlikely and, also, not desirable. Weaker members should have the right to make the decision to move on their own terms. The best policy for URI is to concentrate on the strategic direction of its program using a filter of "continuous improvement". This applies to all sports, but with special attention to basketball, its biggest revenue producer. Control what you can control, first.

[RhowdyRam02]

…….contraction of the league, Fordham/La Salle, is probably not realistic…….unless the A-10 league sets some type of standards of investments, performance standards, facility upgrades etc for what?…….just basketball?……..there is more to the league than just basketball, even though the A-10
Is non big time football and basketball centric…….maybe expansion is an option to develop geographic divisions within the league?…….Fordham types will chart a course for their own exits from the league when their academic/athletic missions/funding are reevaluated……no?

Not only is the A10 just basketball, it's just men's basketball. Sorry, that's the truth. It doesn't mean we shouldn't support other sports and take pride in them, but literally everything the A10 gets (revenue, national media, etc.) comes from men's basketball, and the longer we coddle anchors like Fordham because they excel in quidditch or some shit nobody watches is the longer it takes for the A10 to come anywhere near where it was 10 years ago

[NYGFan_Section208]

…….contraction of the league, Fordham/La Salle, is probably not realistic…….unless the A-10 league sets some type of standards of investments, performance standards, facility upgrades etc for what?…….just basketball?……..there is more to the league than just basketball, even though the A-10
Is non big time football and basketball centric…….maybe expansion is an option to develop geographic divisions within the league?…….Fordham types will chart a course for their own exits from the league when their academic/athletic missions/funding are reevaluated……no?

Not only is the A10 just basketball, it's just men's basketball. Sorry, that's the truth. It doesn't mean we shouldn't support other sports and take pride in them, but literally everything the A10 gets (revenue, national media, etc.) comes from men's basketball, and the longer we coddle anchors like Fordham because they excel in quidditch or some shit nobody watches is the longer it takes for the A10 to come anywhere near where it was 10 years ago

Was Fordham the Anchor good ten years ago? And now they aren't, so that's why the conference is circling the drain?

[RhowdyRam02]

…….contraction of the league, Fordham/La Salle, is probably not realistic…….unless the A-10 league sets some type of standards of investments, performance standards, facility upgrades etc for what?…….just basketball?……..there is more to the league than just basketball, even though the A-10
Is non big time football and basketball centric…….maybe expansion is an option to develop geographic divisions within the league?…….Fordham types will chart a course for their own exits from the league when their academic/athletic missions/funding are reevaluated……no?

Not only is the A10 just basketball, it's just men's basketball. Sorry, that's the truth. It doesn't mean we shouldn't support other sports and take pride in them, but literally everything the A10 gets (revenue, national media, etc.) comes from men's basketball, and the longer we coddle anchors like Fordham because they excel in quidditch or some shit nobody watches is the longer it takes for the A10 to come anywhere near where it was 10 years ago

Was Fordham the Anchor good ten years ago? And now they aren't, so that's why the conference is circling the drain?

We had more good teams offsetting their suck. Now we have one or two good programs, a ton of mediocrity, and then the suck. Not enough programs lifting the conference to overcome the anchors.

Really not sure what is controversial about this. Pretty much everyone on the board thought our season was over when we lost to Fordham in 2017. You can't have schools that bad in your own conference if you want to be a good conference

[NYGFan_Section208]

Not only is the A10 just basketball, it's just men's basketball. Sorry, that's the truth. It doesn't mean we shouldn't support other sports and take pride in them, but literally everything the A10 gets (revenue, national media, etc.) comes from men's basketball, and the longer we coddle anchors like Fordham because they excel in quidditch or some shit nobody watches is the longer it takes for the A10 to come anywhere near where it was 10 years ago

Was Fordham the Anchor good ten years ago? And now they aren't, so that's why the conference is circling the drain?

We had more good teams offsetting their suck. Now we have one or two good programs, a ton of mediocrity, and then the suck. Not enough programs lifting the conference to overcome the anchors.

Really not sure what is controversial about this. Pretty much everyone on the board thought our season was over when we lost to Fordham in 2017. You can't have schools that bad in your own conference if you want to be a good conference

They sucked then, they suck now. No controversy. But, do conferences ever kick teams out based on suckdom? Does that really happen? Are there five nameable instances in the last 20 years?

[SGreenwell]

Was Fordham the Anchor good ten years ago? And now they aren't, so that's why the conference is circling the drain?

We had more good teams offsetting their suck. Now we have one or two good programs, a ton of mediocrity, and then the suck. Not enough programs lifting the conference to overcome the anchors.

Really not sure what is controversial about this. Pretty much everyone on the board thought our season was over when we lost to Fordham in 2017. You can't have schools that bad in your own conference if you want to be a good conference

They sucked then, they suck now. No controversy. But, do conferences ever kick teams out based on suckdom? Does that really happen? Are there five nameable instances in the last 20 years?

No, but it's also hard to find comparable programs to Fordham in other, non-small basketball conferences. Closest I can think of off the top of my head is Boston College, and even they made the NCAA tournament in three of their first four years in the ACC, before they decided to fire Al Skinner. This is Fordham's 27th year in the A-10, 26 full years, and they've finished .500 or better three times. Their high for in-conference wins is 10 and they've never made an A-10 tournament final. Zero NCAA tournament bids, zero NIT bids, 1 CIT bid.

[RhowdyRam02]

Was Fordham the Anchor good ten years ago? And now they aren't, so that's why the conference is circling the drain?

We had more good teams offsetting their suck. Now we have one or two good programs, a ton of mediocrity, and then the suck. Not enough programs lifting the conference to overcome the anchors.

Really not sure what is controversial about this. Pretty much everyone on the board thought our season was over when we lost to Fordham in 2017. You can't have schools that bad in your own conference if you want to be a good conference

They sucked then, they suck now. No controversy. But, do conferences ever kick teams out based on suckdom? Does that really happen? Are there five nameable instances in the last 20 years?

Only thing I can think of is Big East football kicking out Temple. That something doesn't happen often doesn't mean it should never happen

[Blue Man]

We had more good teams offsetting their suck. Now we have one or two good programs, a ton of mediocrity, and then the suck. Not enough programs lifting the conference to overcome the anchors.

Really not sure what is controversial about this. Pretty much everyone on the board thought our season was over when we lost to Fordham in 2017. You can't have schools that bad in your own conference if you want to be a good conference

They sucked then, they suck now. No controversy. But, do conferences ever kick teams out based on suckdom? Does that really happen? Are there five nameable instances in the last 20 years?

No, but it's also hard to find comparable programs to Fordham in other, non-small basketball conferences. Closest I can think of off the top of my head is Boston College, and even they made the NCAA tournament in three of their first four years in the ACC, before they decided to fire Al Skinner. This is Fordham's 27th year in the A-10, 26 full years, and they've finished .500 or better three times. Their high for in-conference wins is 10 and they've never made an A-10 tournament final. Zero NCAA tournament bids, zero NIT bids, 1 CIT bid.

And still my concern is less their performance and more their investment. They have the largest endowment of any A10 school. Over $1B.

They just don’t care about basketball. That’s the problem.

Rose Hill sucks. No facilities. Low pay for coaches.

It’s a problem that could be solved in 2 years if they wanted to. But they don’t. They contribute very little and take an equal share.

Maybe the A10 could change their comp plans to say “if you don’t perform or bring in x, you don’t get anything out of it” and inspire them to change or leave.

[Obadiah]

They sucked then, they suck now. No controversy. But, do conferences ever kick teams out based on suckdom? Does that really happen? Are there five nameable instances in the last 20 years?

No, but it's also hard to find comparable programs to Fordham in other, non-small basketball conferences. Closest I can think of off the top of my head is Boston College, and even they made the NCAA tournament in three of their first four years in the ACC, before they decided to fire Al Skinner. This is Fordham's 27th year in the A-10, 26 full years, and they've finished .500 or better three times. Their high for in-conference wins is 10 and they've never made an A-10 tournament final. Zero NCAA tournament bids, zero NIT bids, 1 CIT bid.

And still my concern is less their performance and more their investment. They have the largest endowment of any A10 school. Over $1B.

They just don’t care about basketball. That’s the problem.

Rose Hill sucks. No facilities. Low pay for coaches.

It’s a problem that could be solved in 2 years if they wanted to. But they don’t. They contribute very little and take an equal share.

Maybe the A10 could change their comp plans to say “if you don’t perform or bring in x, you don’t get anything out of it” and inspire them to change or leave.

Sorry, you got that wrong. Fordham does not have the largest endowment in the A-10. They rank #7 with less than a $1billion. As I mentioned in my earlier post, Richmond and GW are the private schools with the biggest endowments in the A-10. Richmond more than triples Fordham's.

[Rhody72]

Also, conference membershpp should not be based on one sport.

Except that men's basketball is the largest revenue generator for A-10 schools, so the dead weight's continued absence from the NCAA tournament costs all the other members money.

But, isn't that up to each conference how they split up TV revenue etc? Isn't this the choice of the member schools?

[Rhode_Island_Red]

Here's a solution. Instead of directly kicking anybody out, just set some minimum requirements: A 6,000-seat arena or average paid men's or women's basketball attendance of 4,000 per game.

[rhodyrudder]

Careful what you wish for...

btw, for like the millionth time...

the a-10 is not kicking Fordham out, no matter how many times the keaneyblue faithful demand it

[section(105)]

Here's a solution. Instead of directly kicking anybody out, just set some minimum requirements: A 6,000-seat arena or average paid men's or women's basketball attendance of 4,000 per game.

…….gotta ask, would we qualify year by year……..not much room for error when we suck……am I missing something here……?

[ramster]

Here's a solution. Instead of directly kicking anybody out, just set some minimum requirements: A 6,000-seat arena or average paid men's or women's basketball attendance of 4,000 per game.

…….gotta ask, would we qualify year by year……..not much room for error when we suck……am I missing something here……?

Better hope it’s announced attendance not actual scanned tickets. Last game was about 900 at most actual seats with bodies in them, and that’s generous.

[Rhodymob05]

Here's a solution. Instead of directly kicking anybody out, just set some minimum requirements: A 6,000-seat arena or average paid men's or women's basketball attendance of 4,000 per game.

…….gotta ask, would we qualify year by year……..not much room for error when we suck……am I missing something here……?

There may be 2-3 seasons in a decade where we would have attendance issues. Fordham has had them for multiple decades in a row.

[Rhode_Island_Red]

Um, I think we have a 6,000-seat arena. Did you notice the word "or" in there?

[section(105)]

Um, I think we have a 6,000-seat arena. Did you notice the word "or" in there?

…..yes, yes I did miss that……

[ramster]

I don't think the poster who boxed himself into a "let's join America East" position really meant to go there. Sometimes the frustration of following this program makes you say and do things that are not really representative of what or how you think. Who knows!

But on the subject of conference alignment, here's a perspective - out of the 32 conferences nationally, there are 8 conferences with Northeast footprints and ranking them by the power rating shows the following:

Rank	Conference	  Geographic Span

#2	Big East	  Northeast to Midwest
#9	Atlantic 10	  Northeast to Midwest and South
#16	CAA	          Northeast to South
#17	Metro Atlantic	  Wholly Northeast
#22	Ivy	          Wholly Northeast
#28	America East	  Wholly Northeast
#29	NEC	          Wholly Northeast
#31	Patriot	          Wholly Northeast

The top three ranked conferences all have footprints beyond the Northeast. While those with footprints wholly in the Northeast are among the worst conferences in the country. Some have objected to the large footprint of the A-10 and are enamored with a small geographic base for costs, etc, but that feeling in conrtrary to trends in college athletics of the last 20 years. If anything URI has to think big. No company, no organization, no institution of any merit downsizes to greatness.

Yes, I think there is more work to do on members, but I think the A-10 is fine and if Loyola Chicago is any indication, it is headed in the right direction.

As I said, if we're going to be in a one bid conference, which is what the Atlantic 10 is trending to, then the Atlantic 10 isn't the right one bid conference for us to be in. I'm not saying we should apply for the America East today, but long term it might be a reality we need to look into. Seems fairly straightforward. Also, if we moved with VCU and Richmond to the CAA, I would imagine that the CAA would be equal to or better than the Atlantic 10 in short order. Any time you take the 1st or 2nd best program and two top half programs from the 9th ranked conference and move them to the 16th ranked conference it's going to cause a shakeup to conference strength and television deals. I'm not nearly as bullish on the Atlantic 10 past the next five years, or Loyola Chicago, as other people. It is what it is and time will tell

I moved some of this subject from the George Mason thread to Conference Realignment to continue discussion

[ramster]

Moving Loyola Chicago to the A10 is a good move but could it be a move like Butler made that lasted all of 1 season?

The announcement of Loyola moving to the A10 was a surprise. Nobody had been talking about that possibility - kept very secret. Move of Texas and Oklahoma was surprising this year too.

Could the Big East expand and grab Loyola Chicago, St Louis and Dayton all at once to go to 14 teams? All 3 are Catholic Schools. I'd expect the A10 has a fear of this possibility. Dayton, Loyola and St Louis would merge well with Marquette, DePaul and Creighton in the Midwest - all 6 Catholic schools.

As RR2 says, maybe the fact that the A10 is headed to being only a 1 bid league says URI should keep it's eyes open. Would be nice to have a Conference where all of the members also play FCS Football and have a solid Athletic Department that has a similar broad range of sports similar to what URI has.

IF St Louis, Dayton and/or Loyola were to leave my guess is VCU would be close behind them for another conference.

Maybe a combo of the CAA and A10 with the best Basketball and Football Teams from both Conferences would work.

Maybe a Butler leaves the BE because of no football rivals and tired of being in the lower tier of teams? Monmouth? Stony Brook? Albany? Delaware? William & Mary? Bryant?

A conference of Football AND Basketball would be great - if all of the members shared the same sports. Baseball, Softball, etc would be good - and nice of the teams were within distances to be able to build geographical rivalries.

A10 Teams With FCS (or FBS) Football
Dayton - Pioneer
Davidson - Pioneer
Richmond - Colonial
URI - Colonial
UMASS - Independent FBS
Duquesne - Northeast
Fordham - Patriot

A10 Teams Without Football
Loyola Chicago
VCU
St Louis
St Bonaventure
LaSalle
St Joseph's
George Mason
George Washington

[NYGFan_Section208]

Geography is no longer a factor...see Big Everywhere

[steviep123]

Moving Loyola Chicago to the A10 is a good move but could it be a move like Butler made that lasted all of 1 season?

The announcement of Loyola moving to the A10 was a surprise. Nobody had been talking about that possibility - kept very secret. Move of Texas and Oklahoma was surprising this year too.

Could the Big East expand and grab Loyola Chicago, St Louis and Dayton all at once to go to 14 teams? All 3 are Catholic Schools. I'd expect the A10 has a fear of this possibility. Dayton, Loyola and St Louis would merge well with Marquette, DePaul and Creighton in the Midwest - all 6 Catholic schools.

As RR2 says, maybe the fact that the A10 is headed to being only a 1 bid league says URI should keep it's eyes open. Would be nice to have a Conference where all of the members also play FCS Football and have a solid Athletic Department that has a similar broad range of sports similar to what URI has.

IF St Louis, Dayton and/or Loyola were to leave my guess is VCU would be close behind them for another conference.

Maybe a combo of the CAA and A10 with the best Basketball and Football Teams from both Conferences would work.

Maybe a Butler leaves the BE because of no football rivals and tired of being in the lower tier of teams? Monmouth? Stony Brook? Albany? Delaware? William & Mary? Bryant?

A conference of Football AND Basketball would be great - if all of the members shared the same sports. Baseball, Softball, etc would be good - and nice of the teams were within distances to be able to build geographical rivalries.

A10 Teams With FCS (or FBS) Football
Dayton - Pioneer
Davidson - Pioneer
Richmond - Colonial
URI - Colonial
UMASS - Independent FBS
Duquesne - Northeast
Fordham - Patriot

A10 Teams Without Football
Loyola Chicago
VCU
St Louis
St Bonaventure
LaSalle
St Joseph's
George Mason
George Washington

DePaul is in Chicago - I'm pretty sure DePaul would try to block Loyola if possible, like Xavier doesn't want Dayton in the Big East (which is odd since both joined the A10 together back in 1995, how times have changed). Of course that's just speculation by me and not based in any real knowledge.

[ramster]

Moving Loyola Chicago to the A10 is a good move but could it be a move like Butler made that lasted all of 1 season?

The announcement of Loyola moving to the A10 was a surprise. Nobody had been talking about that possibility - kept very secret. Move of Texas and Oklahoma was surprising this year too.

Could the Big East expand and grab Loyola Chicago, St Louis and Dayton all at once to go to 14 teams? All 3 are Catholic Schools. I'd expect the A10 has a fear of this possibility. Dayton, Loyola and St Louis would merge well with Marquette, DePaul and Creighton in the Midwest - all 6 Catholic schools.

As RR2 says, maybe the fact that the A10 is headed to being only a 1 bid league says URI should keep it's eyes open. Would be nice to have a Conference where all of the members also play FCS Football and have a solid Athletic Department that has a similar broad range of sports similar to what URI has.

IF St Louis, Dayton and/or Loyola were to leave my guess is VCU would be close behind them for another conference.

Maybe a combo of the CAA and A10 with the best Basketball and Football Teams from both Conferences would work.

Maybe a Butler leaves the BE because of no football rivals and tired of being in the lower tier of teams? Monmouth? Stony Brook? Albany? Delaware? William & Mary? Bryant?

A conference of Football AND Basketball would be great - if all of the members shared the same sports. Baseball, Softball, etc would be good - and nice of the teams were within distances to be able to build geographical rivalries.

A10 Teams With FCS (or FBS) Football
Dayton - Pioneer
Davidson - Pioneer
Richmond - Colonial
URI - Colonial
UMASS - Independent FBS
Duquesne - Northeast
Fordham - Patriot

A10 Teams Without Football
Loyola Chicago
VCU
St Louis
St Bonaventure
LaSalle
St Joseph's
George Mason
George Washington

DePaul is in Chicago - I'm pretty sure DePaul would try to block Loyola if possible, like Xavier doesn't want Dayton in the Big East (which is odd since both joined the A10 together back in 1995, how times have changed). Of course that's just speculation by me and not based in any real knowledge.

And Marquette is only 87 miles from DePaul

Things will be changing in the future with the Cartel Football Schools continuing to build strength.

Big East is not going to sit at 11 teams

I’d like to see URI in a good league for Basketball and FCS Football. With A10 and CAA Headquarters so close together in Virginia maybe something comes about.

As RR2 says, the A10 is down to a 1 bid conference. Best to be looking at options in case top tier teams like Loyola, Dayton, St Louis or VCU bolt.

[Jersey77]

Moving Loyola Chicago to the A10 is a good move but could it be a move like Butler made that lasted all of 1 season?

The announcement of Loyola moving to the A10 was a surprise. Nobody had been talking about that possibility - kept very secret. Move of Texas and Oklahoma was surprising this year too.

Could the Big East expand and grab Loyola Chicago, St Louis and Dayton all at once to go to 14 teams? All 3 are Catholic Schools. I'd expect the A10 has a fear of this possibility. Dayton, Loyola and St Louis would merge well with Marquette, DePaul and Creighton in the Midwest - all 6 Catholic schools.

As RR2 says, maybe the fact that the A10 is headed to being only a 1 bid league says URI should keep it's eyes open. Would be nice to have a Conference where all of the members also play FCS Football and have a solid Athletic Department that has a similar broad range of sports similar to what URI has.

IF St Louis, Dayton and/or Loyola were to leave my guess is VCU would be close behind them for another conference.

Maybe a combo of the CAA and A10 with the best Basketball and Football Teams from both Conferences would work.

Maybe a Butler leaves the BE because of no football rivals and tired of being in the lower tier of teams? Monmouth? Stony Brook? Albany? Delaware? William & Mary? Bryant?

A conference of Football AND Basketball would be great - if all of the members shared the same sports. Baseball, Softball, etc would be good - and nice of the teams were within distances to be able to build geographical rivalries.

A10 Teams With FCS (or FBS) Football
Dayton - Pioneer
Davidson - Pioneer
Richmond - Colonial
URI - Colonial
UMASS - Independent FBS
Duquesne - Northeast
Fordham - Patriot

A10 Teams Without Football
Loyola Chicago
VCU
St Louis
St Bonaventure
LaSalle
St Joseph's
George Mason
George Washington

DePaul is in Chicago - I'm pretty sure DePaul would try to block Loyola if possible, like Xavier doesn't want Dayton in the Big East (which is odd since both joined the A10 together back in 1995, how times have changed). Of course that's just speculation by me and not based in any real knowledge.

And Marquette is only 87 miles from DePaul

Things will be changing in the future with the Cartel Football Schools continuing to build strength.

Big East is not going to sit at 11 teams

I’d like to see URI in a good league for Basketball and FCS Football. With A10 and CAA Headquarters so close together in Virginia maybe something comes about.

As RR2 says, the A10 is down to a 1 bid conference. Best to be looking at options in case top tier teams like Loyola, Dayton, St Louis or VCU bolt.

Ramster
We have heard all the discussion circulating for some time about possibly SLU, Dayton, or VCU jumping to the BE.
That talk also had me very concerned about our conference's future, but nothing materialized.
But again, in these times it is difficult to rule anything out.

Very doubtful that Loyola/Chicago will also be invited, they just don't seem to be a good fit there.

Now we are hearing rumors that Gonzaga is the only program that would move the needle for the BE.
Not sure if Gonzaga would leave the WCC because of all the geographic logistics associated with joining the BE.
They have elevated their program to the point where they can do as they please.
They are already getting the top recruits, big TV play, and all the national exposure.

Below is an article from Oct. 2021.
http://adimeback.com/big-east-realignme ... or-nobody/

As far as further A10 expansion, I still wish we would have added Belmont or possibly Murray State in addition to Loyola/Chicago.

[ramster]

Nobody heard a word about Loyola joining the A10

I’d bet the BE goes to 16 teams. They must keep up with the P5’s

[PCFriars]

I don’t think you’ll see the BE expand to 16 anytime soon. Obviously 11 is not an ideal number, so I do think they add 1 in the very near term. If I had to guess they will target Saint Louis, but just a guess.

If it were me, I would think about going to 14 and also looking at VCU and Wichita St, since both are non-football schools. But I’ve been told that there is no appetite in league circles for either of them. Haven’t been given a good explanation as to why.

[Jersey77]

Nobody heard a word about Loyola joining the A10

I’d bet the BE goes to 16 teams. They must keep up with the P5’s

I don't know about that; in basketball the dynamics are different.
They already get top recruits, lots of national exposure, probably 5-7 bids in the NCAAT.

They are mostly all private schools (UConn exception) and initially wanted to keep the conference fairly small and manageable.
The BE probably isn't willing to share the wealth unless they feel a team can really move the needle for them.
Gonzaga may be the only school that really fits the bill.

[ramster]

Guess the A10 has nothing to worry about then

[Jersey77]

Guess the A10 has nothing to worry about then

Anything can happen, and I always worry

[ramster]

Guess the A10 has nothing to worry about then

Anything can happen, and I always worry

Nah
Nothing is going to happen.

[Obadiah]

Attendance is always a hot button item on this board and rightfully so because the size and fervor of the fan base is important to revenue generation, program amenities, recruiting, media coverage-print and TV, the organizers of early season tournaments,, etc..
Attendance is very much related to size and quality of facilities and this is where the A-10 shows a mixed bag. And any realignment has to look hard and fast at any candidate's performance on this critical factor.

Here is a summary of A-10 schools ranked by highest to lowest average attendance for the season before Covid hit. I have included Loyola Chicago.

   School	       Arena/Capacity	       Average        % 
                                             Attendance  Utilization

1.  Dayton	     UD Arena/13,407	       13,364	     100
2.  VCU	             Siegel Center/7,500	7,637	     102
3.  Saint Louis	     Chaifetz Arena/10,600	6,880	      65
4.  URI	             Ryan Center/8,000	        6,144	      77
5.  Richmond	     Robins Center/7,201	6,001	      83
6.  St. Bonaventure  Reilly Center/5,480	4,359	      80
7.  George Mason     EagleBank Arena/7,860	4,307	      55
8.  Davidson	     Belk Arena/4,300	        3,684	      86
9.  Loyola Chicago   Gentile Arena*/4,963	3,215	      65
10. UMass	     Mullins Center/9,493	2,717	      29
11. GW	             Smith Center/4,338	        2,621	      60
12. Duquesne	     Cooper Fieldhouse/3,500	2,306	      66
13. Saint Joseph's   Hagan/4,200	        2,108	      50
14. La Salle	     Gola Arena/3,400	        1,894	      56
15. Fordham	     Rose Hill Gym/3,200	1,891	      59
* Revised capacity down from original stated capacity per Loyola BB website. New capacity is the one used by ESPN

Clearly, Dayton stands way above anyone else. VCU also stands out and why that school does not play more big games in Richmond's version of the Dunk is puzzling. URI does a good job, but could be better, Both Richmond and St. Bonaventure pull more than their weight for differing reason. UMass is the worst considering all factors. George Mason has potential. Duquesne has a bright spot not only because of their fieldhouse renovation but their campus is within a short walk (downhill) to Pittsburgh's big arena.

[SGreenwell]

Interesting how you can almost correlate "program success" with the raw attendance numbers or "utilization percentage," haha. St. Louis' numbers are probably a bit artificially low, because they won the autobid in 2018-19, and then the pandemic would have "eaten up" that bump you'd expect over the next few years. Loyola Chicago are in the same boat.

[RhowdyRam02]

So those numbers are for the 2018-19 season. Which means the year after making the Final Four and first tournament since 1985, Loyola Chicago averaged 3215 fans, which would have been good for 9th place in the A10, and 62% capacity in their building which again would have placed them ninth in our conference that year.

Again, they might make a fine addition to this conference. But just like I said at the beginning of Cox' tenure, and was shouted down for saying so then, to just assume they're going to be successful is wish casting. They don't bring a big fan base, they don't bring the Chicago market just like Fordham doesn't bring the New York market (there's a big difference between being in a big market and bringing that market), and the architect of their success, including their current roster, is no longer coach there. To just assume their current success is going to continue indefinitely, when their history shows it to be unlikely, is foolhardy

[Rhody72]

You can safely assume that the A10 is going to lose some of its better programs. Would you rather wait until we lose those programs or add good programs now while we have those better programs as a drawing card? The A10 is a stepping stone conference with a handful of mediocre programs who lack the aspiration to be anything more than they are. The A10 is not going to jettison weak programs.

[Jersey77]

You can safely assume that the A10 is going to lose some of its better programs. Would you rather wait until we lose those programs or add good programs now while we have those better programs as a drawing card? The A10 is a stepping stone conference with a handful of mediocre programs who lack the aspiration to be anything more than they are. The A10 is not going to jettison weak programs.

I still wish we add another school, but at this point not so sure the A10 is going to lose any teams, at least in the near future.
Where are they going, need to be invited? The football programs in the A10 aren't attractive.

[Obadiah]

So those numbers are for the 2018-19 season. Which means the year after making the Final Four and first tournament since 1985, Loyola Chicago averaged 3215 fans, which would have been good for 9th place in the A10, and 62% capacity in their building which again would have placed them ninth in our conference that year.

Again, they might make a fine addition to this conference. But just like I said at the beginning of Cox' tenure, and was shouted down for saying so then, to just assume they're going to be successful is wish casting. They don't bring a big fan base, they don't bring the Chicago market just like Fordham doesn't bring the New York market (there's a big difference between being in a big market and bringing that market), and the architect of their success, including their current roster, is no longer coach there. To just assume their current success is going to continue indefinitely, when their history shows it to be unlikely, is foolhardy

RR, One correction, my attendance summary was for 2019-20 not 18-19. However, you make a good point on the Loyola attendance and the fan base, but there are some positives that don't make the school a Fordham clone. Since I spent several years years in Chicago as a grad student and also in my work life, I know something about the city. Chicago is more a pro town than a college sports mecca, not to the same degree as Boston and the population will rally behind a college team. This is exactly what happened when Loyola won the national championship in 1963 and played before big crowds at the Chicago Stadium that year and for years afterwards. Also Loyola is, I think, the biggest Catholic university in the country and has an alumni base of over 150,000 spread over the country. And Loyola is not Holy Cross which went from the heights of college basketball to playing in a weak league with limited geographic scope.

Also Loyola BB did well when it was an independent and bad times began in the 80's and 90's when the school joined the old MCC which had schools like Xavier, Saint Louis, Detroit, which then morphed into the Horizon League after the turbulence of the comings and goings of 24 different schools! Proving that conference affiliation is an important matter, Loyola seems to have turned a corner since their move to the MVC in 2013 and looks to further improve by moving to the A-10. This gives them more geographic spread which can help recruiting and gives the school expanded media attention and that benefit works in two direction. For example, URI and Loyola have never met in basketball. Plus Loyola has Sister Jean and Fordham has Donald Trump.

[RF1]

VCU also stands out and why that school does not play more big games in Richmond's version of the Dunk is puzzling.

The Richmond Coliseum closed back in February 2019. The arena which had a capacity of 13,500 was very much showing its age in its later years. The opening of the much larger and first class modern JP Jones Arena at UVa in Charlottesville some 70 miles away very much hurt its business. VCU once played all its games there until it opened its 7,500 seat arena on its campus in 1999. There has been talk of demolishing the old Richmond Coliseum and replacing it with a new venue for many years without any concrete action to date.

[Rhody72]

There are 10 former FULL members of the A10. Eight (Butler, PSU, Pitt, Rutgers, Villanova, Va Tech, and WVU) are in P5/BE conferences and two (Temple-AAC, UNCC-CUSA) are in strong mid-major conferences, No FULL former A10 member has moved down voluntarily or unvoluntarily to a lower ranked conference, The A10 has existed for over 40 years. If Fordham or LaSalle moves down, they will be the first.

[NYGFan_Section208]

VCU also stands out and why that school does not play more big games in Richmond's version of the Dunk is puzzling.

There has been talk of demolishing the old Richmond Coliseum and replacing it with a new venue for many years without any concrete action to date.

So....a practice facility?

[RF1]

[Obadiah]

This move is not so surprising because in any analysis of the future potential of some schools, Stony Brook comes to the forefront. The school as an academic institution is well supported in the SUNY system and in recent years has gained a solid reputation for its academics. Building on that trajectory, the school has built impressive athletic facilities which clearly reflects higher aspirations. This is large public institution in a big metro area and with bold ideas and plans, SUNY - Stony Brook has a bright future.

[Rhody15]

Maybe we can replace them in the powerhouse America East!

[SmartyBarrett]

[Jersey77]