Conference Realignment

[RF1]

Fan base conflicted on UMass’ decision to leave Atlantic 10, move to the MAC
https://www.gazettenet.com/Fan-base-con ... C-54198789

[ramster]

That's too deep for me. I just took it as "quite funny"

The way I took it was that NYG liked Rhodyrudder’s post so much he wanted the ability to like it more than the 1 time that is allowed. When I read that I added a like to Rudder’s Pac 12 is hiring post myself.

I thought the Pac '10' part was funny, too

I missed that. But a couple of days ago I found myself keying PAC 10 and then I caught myself.

End of day what do all these 10’s and 12’s mean anyway. It just sounds good? Or it’s tradition?

I did add a like to Rudder just for you haha

[RF1]

Matt Vautour, the longtime UMass basketball beat writer for multiple Pioneer Valley newspapers opines on how this MAC move will hurt the hoops program.

UMass move to MAC is brutal blow to its men’s basketball program | Vautour
https://www.masslive.com/umassfootball/ ... utour.html

[adam914]

I've said this before, and I know I'm not the first either, but every time this comes up I think how I'll just never understand why the NCAA and these schools don't just break off football in to its own thing and leave everything else alone. Make up whatever football conferences or divisions or whatever you want.

[steviep123]

I've said this before, and I know I'm not the first either, but every time this comes up I think how I'll just never understand why the NCAA and these schools don't just break off football in to its own thing and leave everything else alone. Make up whatever football conferences or divisions or whatever you want.

100%

[bigappleram]

I've said this before, and I know I'm not the first either, but every time this comes up I think how I'll just never understand why the NCAA and these schools don't just break off football in to its own thing and leave everything else alone. Make up whatever football conferences or divisions or whatever you want.

100%

I forget what college football coach said that exact same thing.

There are 40-50 football schools prob even less if we are being honest that are driving this entire seismic change that could damage/alter the fan experience forever. College sports fandom isn't the same as pro sport fandom. The nuances of that are being overlooked. Rivalries, traditions, history etc matter so much more at college level.

Same with the NIL thing. Because maybe 15 kids were getting an illegal bag the entire system is being upended. I think everyone is in agreement that athletes generating direct revenue should see some of that. But the collectives, the pay for play and all the baloney is a direct result of the NCAA not addressing that core situation. Now the entire ecosystem is being upended due to the wild Wild West environment it's created.

[adam914]

I've said this before, and I know I'm not the first either, but every time this comes up I think how I'll just never understand why the NCAA and these schools don't just break off football in to its own thing and leave everything else alone. Make up whatever football conferences or divisions or whatever you want.

100%

I forget what college football coach said that exact same thing.

There are 40-50 football schools prob even less if we are being honest that are driving this entire seismic change that could damage/alter the fan experience forever. College sports fandom isn't the same as pro sport fandom. The nuances of that are being overlooked. Rivalries, traditions, history etc matter so much more at college level.

Same with the NIL thing. Because maybe 15 kids were getting an illegal bag the entire system is being upended. I think everyone is in agreement that athletes generating direct revenue should see some of that. But the collectives, the pay for play and all the baloney is a direct result of the NCAA not addressing that core situation. Now the entire ecosystem is being upended due to the wild Wild West environment it's created.

I think it was Chip Kelly if I remember correctly. I remember posting the video somewhere on here I think.

EDIT: Yeah, it was in the coaching carousel thread, just found it.

[rjsuperfly66]

I've said this before, and I know I'm not the first either, but every time this comes up I think how I'll just never understand why the NCAA and these schools don't just break off football in to its own thing and leave everything else alone. Make up whatever football conferences or divisions or whatever you want.

100%

I forget what college football coach said that exact same thing.

There are 40-50 football schools prob even less if we are being honest that are driving this entire seismic change that could damage/alter the fan experience forever. College sports fandom isn't the same as pro sport fandom. The nuances of that are being overlooked. Rivalries, traditions, history etc matter so much more at college level.

Same with the NIL thing. Because maybe 15 kids were getting an illegal bag the entire system is being upended. I think everyone is in agreement that athletes generating direct revenue should see some of that. But the collectives, the pay for play and all the baloney is a direct result of the NCAA not addressing that core situation. Now the entire ecosystem is being upended due to the wild Wild West environment it's created.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think the NCAA could have done differently with NIL? The further this goes along, the less I think there is anything they could have done. Every guardrail they have attempted to put in place, the judicial system has given the finger too. Perhaps there is an argument that they should have been more proactive so NIL wasn't handled so publicly, however isn't it also likely that regardless of what proactive measures they put forth, it would have been blown up in a lawsuit for being "too restrictive?"

[SGreenwell]

100%

I forget what college football coach said that exact same thing.

There are 40-50 football schools prob even less if we are being honest that are driving this entire seismic change that could damage/alter the fan experience forever. College sports fandom isn't the same as pro sport fandom. The nuances of that are being overlooked. Rivalries, traditions, history etc matter so much more at college level.

Same with the NIL thing. Because maybe 15 kids were getting an illegal bag the entire system is being upended. I think everyone is in agreement that athletes generating direct revenue should see some of that. But the collectives, the pay for play and all the baloney is a direct result of the NCAA not addressing that core situation. Now the entire ecosystem is being upended due to the wild Wild West environment it's created.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think the NCAA could have done differently with NIL? The further this goes along, the less I think there is anything they could have done. Every guardrail they have attempted to put in place, the judicial system has given the finger too. Perhaps there is an argument that they should have been more proactive so NIL wasn't handled so publicly, however isn't it also likely that regardless of what proactive measures they put forth, it would have been blown up in a lawsuit for being "too restrictive?"

There is a sort of haphazardness to everything the NCAA does - they're just not proactive about anything. It isn't all that hard to imagine the domino effect of what happens if you start allowing players to earn money from their likeness, in that allowing them that likely shifts their classification to employee or worker. Its an issue that has been decades in the making, since TV networks starting laying out enormous contracts for broadcast rights, probably starting in the 1980s or 1990s. Its one thing if all of that money was clearly funneled back to universities and athletes, but the NCAA, coaches and administrators combined to not really do much of anything. I think it's hard to claim that players getting free tuition (essentially an in-house cost that doesn't actually cost colleges anything) and maybe a couple perks like their own dorm or practice facility evened out Coach K alone making roughly $50m in a decade, for example.

If the NCAA is truly about providing an amateur athletic experience, then you can't have everyone but the players making money off of it. If the NCAA is instead an odd, hybrid amateur / quasi-professional organization, then you need to figure out a way to compensate players. For as long as I can remember, the NCAA just actively had no interest in figuring out how to allow for compensation, so now, they're likely SOL about how they do it.

We also have a kind of weird system in the US vs. professional sports worldwide, where athletics are more firmly disentangled from academics. If you're a great teenager soccer or basketball player in Europe, for example, you just sign on with a team's youth squad. I love URI basketball, but there is a big picture argument to be made along the lines of, "Why is NCAA basketball and football a de facto minor league system for billion dollar sports industries anyway?"

[reef]

Matt Vautour, the longtime UMass basketball beat writer for multiple Pioneer Valley newspapers opines on how this MAC move will hurt the hoops program.

UMass move to MAC is brutal blow to its men’s basketball program | Vautour
https://www.masslive.com/umassfootball/ ... utour.html

Yeah wow UMass hoop fans have to be livid , let’s pray this never happens to URi

[NYGFan_Section208]

Matt Vautour, the longtime UMass basketball beat writer for multiple Pioneer Valley newspapers opines on how this MAC move will hurt the hoops program.

UMass move to MAC is brutal blow to its men’s basketball program | Vautour
https://www.masslive.com/umassfootball/ ... utour.html

Yeah wow UMass hoop fans have to be livid , let’s pray this never happens to URi

Wil it increase the odds of dancing? (asking for a friend)

[ramster]

Matt Vautour, the longtime UMass basketball beat writer for multiple Pioneer Valley newspapers opines on how this MAC move will hurt the hoops program.

UMass move to MAC is brutal blow to its men’s basketball program | Vautour
https://www.masslive.com/umassfootball/ ... utour.html

Yeah wow UMass hoop fans have to be livid , let’s pray this never happens to URi

Wil it increase the odds of dancing? (asking for a friend)

Absolutely

[Rhodymob05]

Imagine going through an entire conference slate in the MAC? Every loss is a Q4. I imagine UMASS will pull a UCONN and jump back one day.

[PeterRamTime]

Yeah wow UMass hoop fans have to be livid , let’s pray this never happens to URi

Wil it increase the odds of dancing? (asking for a friend)

Absolutely

No....

[RI_Bred]

A big part of the problem for UMass will be that they won't be able to recruit higher quality A-10 type players like they do now. So it's not like they are going to be a big fish in a little pond. Plus Martin will probably leave. If it wasn't UMass I would feel bad for them.

[reef]

Matt Vautour, the longtime UMass basketball beat writer for multiple Pioneer Valley newspapers opines on how this MAC move will hurt the hoops program.

UMass move to MAC is brutal blow to its men’s basketball program | Vautour
https://www.masslive.com/umassfootball/ ... utour.html

Yeah wow UMass hoop fans have to be livid , let’s pray this never happens to URi

Wil it increase the odds of dancing? (asking for a friend)

Yes I think it will but I don’t want URI playing in a conference outside the top 10

[PeterRamTime]

Imagine going through an entire conference slate in the MAC? Every loss is a Q4. I imagine UMASS will pull a UCONN and jump back one day.

Most likely UMass basketball will be dead. What's their goal? To be the next Akron? Or Ohio? If Frank Martin stays there and can recruit guys to play in the MAC they can maybe dominate the conference. However, they could still go undefeated in the conference, slip up once and still not go dancing. Win 25 plus games just to be a 13 seed?

Dambrot won 305 games there with 4 MAC regular season titles and 5 division titles. 12 out of his 13 seasons there he had 20+ wins (first year was 19) 4 seasons of 26 or more wins.

What did 13 years of relative dominance in that conference get him? 3 tournament appearances and 0 wins and no one noticed. Some NIT, CIT and CBI appearances as consolation whenever they couldn't catch lighting in a bottle for three days. John Groce is in the same boat. On his fourth 20 win season with one tournament win. He had a couple tourney runs at Ohio. So that's it for UMass. Get a top 4 seed in the conf tourney, get a 13+ seed and hopefully go on a miracle tournament run.

[Rhody15]

Imagine going through an entire conference slate in the MAC? Every loss is a Q4. I imagine UMASS will pull a UCONN and jump back one day.

Most likely UMass basketball will be dead. What's their goal? To be the next Akron? Or Ohio? If Frank Martin stays there and can recruit guys to play in the MAC they can maybe dominate the conference. However, they could still go undefeated in the conference, slip up once and still not go dancing. Win 25 plus games just to be a 13 seed?

Dambrot won 305 games there with 4 MAC regular season titles and 5 division titles. 12 out of his 13 seasons there he had 20+ wins (first year was 19) 4 seasons of 26 or more wins.

What did 13 years of relative dominance in that conference get him? 3 tournament appearances and 0 wins and no one noticed. Some NIT, CIT and CBI appearances as consolation whenever they couldn't catch lighting in a bottle for three days. John Groce is in the same boat. On his fourth 20 win season with one tournament win. He had a couple tourney runs at Ohio. So that's it for UMass. Get a top 4 seed in the conf tourney, get a 13+ seed and hopefully go on a miracle tournament run.

As much as it sucks for basketball, going forward it’ll be third in the pecking order at the school.

1. Football
2. Men’s hockey
3. Men’s basketball

[SGreenwell]

Imagine going through an entire conference slate in the MAC? Every loss is a Q4. I imagine UMASS will pull a UCONN and jump back one day.

Most likely UMass basketball will be dead. What's their goal? To be the next Akron? Or Ohio? If Frank Martin stays there and can recruit guys to play in the MAC they can maybe dominate the conference. However, they could still go undefeated in the conference, slip up once and still not go dancing. Win 25 plus games just to be a 13 seed?

I think Martin will be gone at the first offer from a decent mid-major or better team, unless the plan all along has been for him to retire at UMass for some reason.

[reef]

Yeah Frank Martin can’t be happy about coaching in the MAC

[steviep123]

I have to wonder if Martin knew about the probability of UMass switching conferences 2 years ago when considering the job.

[reef]

I have to wonder if Martin knew about the probability of UMass switching conferences 2 years ago when considering the job.

Good question I would think he wouldn’t have known but I guess there was always a chance with football

[Steve81]

Yeah Frank Martin can’t be happy about coaching in the MAC

Frank Martin
@coachFMartin
2 years ago “change” chose me, today WE chose change. Either way we should always be excited when there is change, because growth follows. The future is exciting. We are UMass
#LetsBuildItTogether
@MACSports we appreciate the opportunity

This is something we needed to do. It's not a bad fit with all like mind publics institutions. For football we'll be in a POD with Akron, Kent state, and Buffalo. Wish it was basketball, but, It's higher against higher scheduling. Historically Akron, Kent State, Toledo are all good and others have their moments in the sun as Buffalo and others. It won't be the A10, but no more Gola Arena or Rose Hill. We do like playing at Fordham for a NYC alums and perhaps can be an OOC as you guys would be nice to schedule.

The University of Massachusetts has accepted an invitation to join the Mid-American Conference (MAC) as a full member, beginning on July 1, 2025.

A press conference will be held at 11 a.m. on Thursday, March 7 in the Hunt Room at the Football Performance Center (see details below).

"As one of the nation's leading public research universities, with a rich tradition of intercollegiate athletics, UMass Amherst is well suited to join the similarly situated institutions of the Mid-American Conference," said Chancellor Javier A. Reyes. "We are aligned with the MAC in our institutional missions, our values, and the profound impact we have on our respective communities. We join the MAC with great enthusiasm knowing that this affiliation through athletics will elevate and extend the profile and exposure of both UMass Amherst and all members of the MAC's member institutions significantly."

Massachusetts will compete in the Mid-American Conference in baseball, men's and women's basketball, men's and women's cross country, field hockey, football, men's and women's indoor/outdoor track & field, women's lacrosse, women's soccer, softball, men's and women's swimming and diving, women's tennis. The Massachusetts hockey program will remain in the Hockey East Association moving forward.

More information will become available in the coming months regarding future conference membership plans for the UMass men's soccer, men's lacrosse and women's rowing programs.

All UMass sports currently competing in the Atlantic 10 will remain in the Atlantic 10 through the 2024-2025 academic year and maintain eligibility to compete for conference championships and NCAA postseason play. Massachusetts football will continue as an FBS independent program for the 2024 season.

"Our entire athletics program will benefit greatly by aligning and partnering with the Mid-American conference and its member institutions," said Director of Athletics Ryan Bamford. "As we consider our future in a very challenging and choppy college athletics landscape, having conference peers with similar institutional profiles, aspirations and commitments toward athletics excellence will provide stability and strength. Furthermore, our transition to the MAC will provide additional resources allowing our department to evolve and grow in a manner that will support student academic success and competitive excellence," Bamford added.

https://umassathletics.com/news/2024/2/ ... ull-member

[reef]

They can spin it how they want !

[theblueram]

Martin just became the highest paid coach in the MAC by more than $1M a year. Croce makes $650k a year. Lol.

[RF1]

Martin just became the highest paid coach in the MAC by more than $1M a year. Croce makes $650k a year. Lol.

For more context on the men's basketball annual operating budgets (coach and staff salaries a significant portion) for A-10 and MAC schools, I found this link for 2023 data:

theresourcenexus.com/budget/

A-10 Average $3.95M
Dayton $5.98M
VCU $5.88M
St Louis $5.79M
Richmond $4.20M
St Joe's $4.14M
Duquesne $3.96M
Loyola $3.83M
GMU $3.69M
URI $3.63M
Fordham $3.57M
GW $3.30M
Davidson $3.11M
St Bonaventure $2.99M
UMass $2.82M
LaSalle $2.42M

MAC Average $1.75M
Ohio $2.45M
Toledo $2.19M
Akron $2.11M
Buffalo $2.01M
Bowling Green $1.83M
Miami $1.63M
CMU $1.58M
Kent $1.58M
Ball St $1.54M
EMU $1.48M
NIU $1.33M
WMU $1.21M

[Steve81]

Yup RF1, we'll be fine in the MAC. In the A10 teams can do a heavy spend on basketball. One more reason that we fit better in the MAC. The revenue stream will be higher. But do want to note, both UMass and Bonnies are under 3M and doing OK.

[RF1]

Yup RF1, we'll be fine in the MAC. In the A10 teams can do a heavy spend on basketball. One more reason that we fit better in the MAC. The revenue stream will be higher. But do want to note, both UMass and Bonnies are under 3M and doing OK.

With the UMass administration decision to de-emphasis men's basketball, it can rearrange finances to bring the basketball budget into line with its MAC peers and reallocate those funds to other programs such as hockey where it can be relevant in the sport.

[hrstrat57]

Which is exactly why they built a hockey rink to stick their basketball team in as a afterthought. Hockey is king in the Commonwealth.

[PeterRamTime]

Yup RF1, we'll be fine in the MAC. In the A10 teams can do a heavy spend on basketball. One more reason that we fit better in the MAC. The revenue stream will be higher. But do want to note, both UMass and Bonnies are under 3M and doing OK.

We fit better in the MAC?

Oh lordy lordy....

[steviep123]

Unless the A10 implodes, and loses VCU and Dayton in the next couple of years or essentially goes belly up, this is a downgrade for UMass hoops. No question about it.

[Obadiah]

Unless the A10 implodes, and loses VCU and Dayton in the next couple of years or essentially goes belly up, this is a downgrade for UMass hoops. No question about it.

What happens to the A-10 in the future is irrelevant because UMass moving to the MAC is a downgrade now and in coming years.

[reef]

Yeah if we ever wake up to the news URI is in a MAC like conference for hoops that would be DEVASTATING

[Obadiah]

The UMass fan base may be conflicted over the move to the MAC, but my prediction is that the voices of discontent will only grow in the months ahead. It's fortunate that UMass' most marquee program - hockey - is unaffected by the move, but all those in the Olympic sports, the bulk of the student-athlete population, will see an adverse impact.

[rhodyrudder]

I again question our fit in this league

The America East is a downgrade, for sure,
But we just don’t fit with any school in the A-10 anymore

Our historic league rivals: Duquesne, st bona, gw and st joe

Can’t see any of them missing us terribly, in any sport

The other 9: loyola, slu, dayton, davidson…um ok
And lasalle, richmond, vcu, fordham and mason

Can’t say we fit with a single one of those schools

But vermont, maine, bryant, unh, lowell, albany
Binghamton, njit, umbc

Those i can see


Again: we have 1 at-large bid in the last 20 years

In ALL SPORTS COMBINED!!!!

If you hafta win the league, might as well be in a league you have a chance to win.

We don’t in any sport right now.
And I’m not sure that’s ever gonna change.

The NET is 200!

[section(105)]

What do you mean by “fit” ?

[Jersey77]

I again question our fit in this league

The America East is a downgrade, for sure,
But we just don’t fit with any school in the A-10 anymore

Our historic league rivals: Duquesne, st bona, gw and st joe

Can’t see any of them missing us terribly, in any sport

The other 9: loyola, slu, dayton, davidson…um ok
And lasalle, richmond, vcu, fordham and mason

Can’t say we fit with a single one of those schools

But vermont, maine, bryant, unh, lowell, albany
Binghamton, njit, umbc

Those i can see


Again: we have 1 at-large bid in the last 20 years

In ALL SPORTS COMBINED!!!!

If you hafta win the league, might as well be in a league you have a chance to win.

We don’t in any sport right now.
And I’m not sure that’s ever gonna change.

The NET is 200!

What?

I don't think we built the RC, new practice facility, increased charters, staff $ increases, and overall program enhancements just so we can move to the AEC.

[Rhodymob05]

I'd consider VCU a rival. I believe our series is dead even, with plenty of memorable games.

[Jersey77]

I'd consider VCU a rival. I believe our series is dead even, with plenty of memorable games.

I do also, even though they aren't exactly geographic neighbors (but that means less these days).

[section(105)]

I again question our fit in this league

The America East is a downgrade, for sure,
But we just don’t fit with any school in the A-10 anymore

Our historic league rivals: Duquesne, st bona, gw and st joe

Can’t see any of them missing us terribly, in any sport

The other 9: loyola, slu, dayton, davidson…um ok
And lasalle, richmond, vcu, fordham and mason

Can’t say we fit with a single one of those schools

But vermont, maine, bryant, unh, lowell, albany
Binghamton, njit, umbc

Those i can see


Again: we have 1 at-large bid in the last 20 years

In ALL SPORTS COMBINED!!!!

If you hafta win the league, might as well be in a league you have a chance to win.

We don’t in any sport right now.
And I’m not sure that’s ever gonna change.

The NET is 200!

What?

I don't think we built the RC, new practice facility, increased charters, staff $ increases, and overall program enhancements just so we can move to the AEC.

No, we didn’t. They are built and the improvements were to keep up with the arms race to stay competitive at the evolving A-10. To keep up with the Joneses. But can’t undue the past. Those improvements and some will go forward into whatever type conference we go into. Chartered flights? The reality is we are not going up a conference and most likely down a bit. Some new conference? Don’t see that happening, unless an aggressive lead role is taken by our administration to create and make happen.

[Jersey77]

I again question our fit in this league

The America East is a downgrade, for sure,
But we just don’t fit with any school in the A-10 anymore

Our historic league rivals: Duquesne, st bona, gw and st joe

Can’t see any of them missing us terribly, in any sport

The other 9: loyola, slu, dayton, davidson…um ok
And lasalle, richmond, vcu, fordham and mason

Can’t say we fit with a single one of those schools

But vermont, maine, bryant, unh, lowell, albany
Binghamton, njit, umbc

Those i can see


Again: we have 1 at-large bid in the last 20 years

In ALL SPORTS COMBINED!!!!

If you hafta win the league, might as well be in a league you have a chance to win.

We don’t in any sport right now.
And I’m not sure that’s ever gonna change.

The NET is 200!

What?

I don't think we built the RC, new practice facility, increased charters, staff $ increases, and overall program enhancements just so we can move to the AEC.

No, we didn’t. They are built and the improvements were to keep up with the arms race to stay competitive at the evolving A-10. To keep up with the Joneses. But can’t undue the past. Those improvements and some will go forward into whatever type conference we go into. Chartered flights? The reality is we are not going up a conference and most likely down a bit. Some new conference? Don’t see that happening, unless an aggressive lead role is taken by our administration to create and make happen.

Okay, the bottom line is we need our staff to up their game and make us relevant again and contend for A10 titles.

[RF1]

With the direction that college sports is going, it would not surprise me to someday eventually see URI in the America East with some of the other New England flagships. It however would not occur unless the A-10 became a perennial one bid league and totally imploded losing its premier programs (Dayton and VCU). I would think that URI would try all it can to position itself better than the America East but it may not have any good options. No league better than the current A-10 is going to extend an invitation to URI given its very inconsistent history. It will therefore be stuck in the A-10 for some time. Unfortunately recent events/changes in the game have greatly hurt the A-10 and its status continues to diminish. If it loses its top programs, it will effectively become a one bid league. Membership in such a conference would have little real value. Joining another existing league such as the CAA would be lateral. Even if another east coast based league were to somehow form, it likely would not have any premier basketball schools worth joining for. At that point, the America East with a small geographic footprint and old local rivals might make the most sense. It however would forever relegate URI to small time hoops status. I would hope this scenario is a long time off and URI does all it can to avoid this doomsday for al long as possible. My pessimistic view of the recent movement of college sports has me unfortunately thinking this is the most likely future. If it were to happen, the program model would be be totally different (downgraded in every way) with some 2-3k fans at best coming to basketball games at the Ryan Center.

[reef]

I’m hoping if something does happen then Thorr can position us in a league better than the America east

[rambone 78]

With our investment level along with facilities, I dont see us dropping down any time soon.

Unfortunately, if Dayton and VCU were to leave, I agree the A10 would be relegated to one bid status.

If that's the case someday, then it would be up to us to dominate what's left and get that one bid. Just like the AE is now
Win it or else.

Sadly, I think that is in our future. We certainly aren't moving up, not with our shit performances more often than not.

The issue is then, would we invest enough to win what's left of the A10 on a consistent basis?

[Jdrums#3]

Things aren’t that bad yet to drop down. We still are positioned and have time to adapt and overcome the hurdles in basketball. It will just need everyone being proactive and pulling in the same direction - the coaching staff’s, the conference, the programs, the school administrators, boosters, etc.

If any program isn’t on board then provide them with an exit timetable.

ETA: Does the A10 contract ever come up for renewal ? Are the standards for membership ever updated, adapted, modernized ? Or, is it just a perpetual, out-dated agreement?

[section(105)]

If Dayton, VCU, move out/up and not replaced with equal or better, URI would drop down, A-10 weaker.

[rhodyrudder]

I think the A-10 is already a 1-bid league, and the P5 or P2 or whatever it is going forward will insist that it be so.

But a move to AEC doesn’t doom Rhody, as a title at least every four years would mean 3 or maybe 4 NCAA games per decade, more if we dominate like we should.

And a typical 4 or 5K crowd would be comparable if not better than we’ve seen this decade.

And the other seven or eight teams we sponsor could be successful as well.

[rhodyrudder]

Bottom line: I’m tired of sucking at everything in this sucky league, and I don’t see any way out of sucking in it ever, because not only of what we’ve done in the last 20 years, but what the P5 are doing the last couple of years (and look like they will keep going much further).

[reef]

I think if we drop down to the America East attendance would drop even further and it will be hard for us to attract a quality coach ?

[rambone 78]

In college BB having the "right" coach is everything.

As we know, we've had success in the past in spite of lesser resources when we had a coach that maximized the talent we had.

Going forward, no matter where we're at, that's imperative.