The Transfer Carousel - 2020-21

[adam914]

I know this is something we have talked about around here before, but I felt like it was worth bringing up again now that it seems more than ever like it could become a reality. I am so torn on this, because I come down on the side of the players almost 100% of the time, but this will essentially make mid-majors and the A10 specifically a minor leagues for the P5 conferences. So many players that have solid starts to their careers in mid-majors will move on to P5 programs for their junior/senior seasons. But at the same time, I don't know that its fair to treat athletes different from any other student who wants to transfer.

The only potential caveat I can think of I guess is that there will be some guys at P5 schools who will transfer down if they aren't cutting it and being recruited over by new transfers. But I'm not sure how that will affect things. Its really a tough call all around in my opinion.

https://sports.yahoo.com/the-current-sy ... 13719.html

[SGreenwell]

I know this is something we have talked about around here before, but I felt like it was worth bringing up again now that it seems more than ever like it could become a reality. I am so torn on this, because I come down on the side of the players almost 100% of the time, but this will essentially make mid-majors and the A10 specifically a minor leagues for the P5 conferences. So many players that have solid starts to their careers in mid-majors will move on to P5 programs for their junior/senior seasons. But at the same time, I don't know that its fair to treat athletes different from any other student who wants to transfer.

The only potential caveat I can think of I guess is that there will be some guys at P5 schools who will transfer down if they aren't cutting it and being recruited over by new transfers. But I'm not sure how that will affect things. Its really a tough call all around in my opinion.

https://sports.yahoo.com/the-current-sy ... 13719.html

I'm generally in favor of anything that allows for player movement, because it gives more rights to the play. Also, it almost always helps us - URI is a prominent enough program recently, and the A-10 in general is good enough, that a player with NBA aspirations, for example, isn't going to be worried about not being seen by enough scouts.

[TruePoint]

Limiting it to a one time thing is key to this being palatable. I don’t like the idea of holding kids hostage at a program they don’t want to be at, but I also think that making the entire sport free agents after every season would ruin it entirely for fans. A one-time exception seems like the right balance to address my two concerns.

[adam914]

Limiting it to a one time thing is key to this being palatable. I don’t like the idea of holding kids hostage at a program they don’t want to be at, but I also think that making the entire sport free agents after every season would ruin it entirely for fans. A one-time exception seems like the right balance to address my two concerns.

That's a good point. I should have mentioned the one time rule. I guess that will help. I just can't help but wonder though if this rule was around already, would Jeff and Cyril be Rams this year? I don't mean to single them out as specific cases or to debate whether they would want to stay here or not, just using them as examples since they are two very good seniors on an A10 team. Would Obi be playing for Kansas or something this year instead? That's the kind of stuff that worries me as an A10 fan.

[adam914]

I know this is something we have talked about around here before, but I felt like it was worth bringing up again now that it seems more than ever like it could become a reality. I am so torn on this, because I come down on the side of the players almost 100% of the time, but this will essentially make mid-majors and the A10 specifically a minor leagues for the P5 conferences. So many players that have solid starts to their careers in mid-majors will move on to P5 programs for their junior/senior seasons. But at the same time, I don't know that its fair to treat athletes different from any other student who wants to transfer.

The only potential caveat I can think of I guess is that there will be some guys at P5 schools who will transfer down if they aren't cutting it and being recruited over by new transfers. But I'm not sure how that will affect things. Its really a tough call all around in my opinion.

https://sports.yahoo.com/the-current-sy ... 13719.html

I'm generally in favor of anything that allows for player movement, because it gives more rights to the play. Also, it almost always helps us - URI is a prominent enough program recently, and the A-10 in general is good enough, that a player with NBA aspirations, for example, isn't going to be worried about not being seen by enough scouts.

I do agree with you here in general, but I think it'll be interesting to see if players of that caliber think its worth it to go play a year in the ACC or Big 10 before going pro to try and help their stock rise even more and have a better chance at playing deep into the tournament.

[steviep123]

I'm torn as well for the reasons stated. But again, it's fair to the student athletes to allow a transfer without penalty. What I am mostly concerned with is any potential tampering. Someone at a lower school is having a great sophomore season and then suddenly a P5 comes along through back channels offering playing time if they transfer. That kind of thing needs to be prevented. Any transfer needs to be initiated by the student.

[SGreenwell]

I know this is something we have talked about around here before, but I felt like it was worth bringing up again now that it seems more than ever like it could become a reality. I am so torn on this, because I come down on the side of the players almost 100% of the time, but this will essentially make mid-majors and the A10 specifically a minor leagues for the P5 conferences. So many players that have solid starts to their careers in mid-majors will move on to P5 programs for their junior/senior seasons. But at the same time, I don't know that its fair to treat athletes different from any other student who wants to transfer.

The only potential caveat I can think of I guess is that there will be some guys at P5 schools who will transfer down if they aren't cutting it and being recruited over by new transfers. But I'm not sure how that will affect things. Its really a tough call all around in my opinion.

https://sports.yahoo.com/the-current-sy ... 13719.html

I'm generally in favor of anything that allows for player movement, because it gives more rights to the play. Also, it almost always helps us - URI is a prominent enough program recently, and the A-10 in general is good enough, that a player with NBA aspirations, for example, isn't going to be worried about not being seen by enough scouts.

I do agree with you here in general, but I think it'll be interesting to see if players of that caliber think its worth it to go play a year in the ACC or Big 10 before going pro to try and help their stock rise even more and have a better chance at playing deep into the tournament.

I think this was more of a concern like, pre-2000s, before so much video was just out there on the Internet. If you want to play pro ball, whether we're talking NBA or Europe, and you're playing college basketball, someone is going to see you and offer you a deal. Like, even during the Baron era, every URI game I covered had at least one or two scouts each game. I also think (some) NBA teams have gotten smarter anyway, and they don't really care as much about conferences, since there isn't a ton of correlation between that and NBA success.

[phipsiGD'11]

I think a change to the rule may help our program specifically more than others for the pure fact that we recruit strong character players. Even if this rule was in place, I dont see Cyril or Jeff leaving. I think they're smart enough to realize that the grass is not always greener. While we have had our fair share of turnover the past couple years, it was not losing players to P5s.
I dont think Jared or Munford become first rounders if they had played for a P5. If scouts are worth their weight, they are able to identify talent regardless of conference.
Our program offers players the chance to play meaningful minutes in a competitive conference, which if talented enough will be able to showcase their abilities for the next level, AND offer a top notch education/college experience.

[ace]

Yes, absolutely, do this. Finally. One transfer per player with immediate eligibility.

There is no transfer “epidemic,” and what usually isn’t mentioned enough in these conversations is the number of players who are run off because the coaching staff made a recruiting mistake. Plus, coaches have agency in all this. They got a guy to commit to them once, keep recruiting them. Does that suck? Maybe, but life’s not always fair.

Some people want to exaggerate the power of these “outside influences” who mess with kids’ heads and get them to leave a situation they wouldn’t have otherwise. A guy’s current teammates and staff have more access to him than anyone else. These coaches are not powerless, and they’re not always the victim. Are there guys who will jump? Of course, but there are still only a limited number of roster spots.

A school like Rhode Island will get their share of positives from this, too. It’s the right thing to do, and people will have to figure it out and adjust.

[rhodylaw]

Yes, absolutely, do this. Finally. One transfer per player with immediate eligibility.

There is no transfer “epidemic,” and what usually isn’t mentioned enough in these conversations is the number of players who are run off because the coaching staff made a recruiting mistake. Plus, coaches have agency in all this. They got a guy to commit to them once, keep recruiting them. Does that suck? Maybe, but life’s not always fair.

Some people want to exaggerate the power of these “outside influences” who mess with kids’ heads and get them to leave a situation they wouldn’t have otherwise. A guy’s current teammates and staff have more access to him than anyone else. These coaches are not powerless, and they’re not always the victim. Are there guys who will jump? Of course, but there are still only a limited number of roster spots.

A school like Rhode Island will get their share of positives from this, too. It’s the right thing to do, and people will have to figure it out and adjust.

Yeah - except Obi would be in Kansas this year and Fatts would be at some P5 school next year. I get the sentiment, but zero penalty transfers will result in super teams. Some level of Parity is what makes college basketball great.

[ace]

Yes, absolutely, do this. Finally. One transfer per player with immediate eligibility.

There is no transfer “epidemic,” and what usually isn’t mentioned enough in these conversations is the number of players who are run off because the coaching staff made a recruiting mistake. Plus, coaches have agency in all this. They got a guy to commit to them once, keep recruiting them. Does that suck? Maybe, but life’s not always fair.

Some people want to exaggerate the power of these “outside influences” who mess with kids’ heads and get them to leave a situation they wouldn’t have otherwise. A guy’s current teammates and staff have more access to him than anyone else. These coaches are not powerless, and they’re not always the victim. Are there guys who will jump? Of course, but there are still only a limited number of roster spots.

A school like Rhode Island will get their share of positives from this, too. It’s the right thing to do, and people will have to figure it out and adjust.

Yeah - except Obi would be in Kansas this year and Fatts would be at some P5 school next year. I get the sentiment, but zero penalty transfers will result in super teams. Some level of Parity is what makes college basketball great.

Yeah, because being at Dayton is just killing Obi’s future as a pro. Hopefully he can manage to get a chance with some third rate Hungarian team or something. It’s a bad argument. He loves his team, and the situation is working to meet his goals. Fatts would have already been gone in the current system, but some people still try to personally do the right thing. This is a step towards doing the right thing generally. College basketball already lacks parity, and what I’m not going to do is get mad in this case when it’s the right thing for the people who carry the sport.

[adam914]

I knew I shouldn't have mentioned any specific names, because every situation is different and I didn't want to start a debate about what specific players would choose to do. But everybody is making great points about it being the right thing to do for the players, and in the end I'll always come down on that side I think.

[Iggy1979]

The P5 teams would benefit the most and the low majors would suffer the most.
I'd rather see transfers sit out one semester.

[steviep123]

Yes, absolutely, do this. Finally. One transfer per player with immediate eligibility.

There is no transfer “epidemic,” and what usually isn’t mentioned enough in these conversations is the number of players who are run off because the coaching staff made a recruiting mistake. Plus, coaches have agency in all this. They got a guy to commit to them once, keep recruiting them. Does that suck? Maybe, but life’s not always fair.

Some people want to exaggerate the power of these “outside influences” who mess with kids’ heads and get them to leave a situation they wouldn’t have otherwise. A guy’s current teammates and staff have more access to him than anyone else. These coaches are not powerless, and they’re not always the victim. Are there guys who will jump? Of course, but there are still only a limited number of roster spots.

A school like Rhode Island will get their share of positives from this, too. It’s the right thing to do, and people will have to figure it out and adjust.

Yeah - except Obi would be in Kansas this year and Fatts would be at some P5 school next year. I get the sentiment, but zero penalty transfers will result in super teams. Some level of Parity is what makes college basketball great.

I haven't seen any evidence to support Obi going to Kansas. There might be - but I haven't personally seen it. He seems to relish in the fact that he was under recruited and is using that as motivation to succeed with Dayton. Kind of like who Aaron Rodgers wasn't highly recruited, then went to Cal after being in Juco. He now usually announces himself as having come from Butte (the community college he attended before Cal) during prime time game player intros. Or at least that's how I read it.

[phipsiGD'11]

It is an interesting topic for sure, but even if the P5s got more players from the mid majors after a strong season or possibly 2, that is another spot on their roster they cant fill, so that would start leading to mid majors getting higher caliber recruits out of HS. Now would all of those kids then jump ship to go back to a P5 that had recruited them then pulled out last second to get a mid major kid who is a little more proven?
Also, how many mid major kids are going to want to leave after freshman year? When they are so young that they could easily be recruited over the next year or even that same year in a P5 program.That's probably the year most would leave. Or many senior year? But by senior year you are fully established in your program, you have relationships. How many of those kids are saying F* it, I'm out?
Or maybe I'm oversimplifying the thought process of 18-22 year olds.

[Section104]

Will this pass prior to next year? Will current Juniors have the opportunity to transfer without penalty for their Senior Season...I hope that's not the case.

[Rhode_Island_Red]

My concern is the under-the-radar players our conference thrives on. Say a kid nobody had heard of -- or a foreign player -- blossoms in his freshman year. The Cartel will start recruiting him, and if he decides to leave in, say, August, his Atlantic 10 program is screwed. There have to be some limits about when these kids can transfer.

[Rhody78]

I agree with there has to be some limits. I would recommend the same that are placed on the coaches and other students!

[Blue Man]

I can see this benefiting the non-P5 just as much as you can see it benefiting the P5.

For example - the Antwan Walker, KI, or Stan Robinson situations. Penalizing kids at situations that weren't good for them, and allowing the school providing the bad situation even more control over that kid. This eliminates that problem and allows kids to find a good situation for them. Since they're not going to pay them what they're worth, the LEAST the NCAA could do is provide them more control over where they're allowed to go, study, or play.

These kids all committed to the schools they committed to for a reason. An overwhelming majority are not just going to uproot their lives because they don't have to sit out a year. In 2020 NBA scouts can see just about any kid they want to at any point in time without leaving their desk. ESPN+ and all the other streaming networks probably have at least 50-75% of the NCAA games on a given night available.

Also, while sure - there could be a kid who blows up at a little school and then decides to make it big (see; every talented player that's ever gone through Fordham). But for every one of those kids - there's 5 more super talented 4 star kids wasting away on a blue blood bench who could come down to the A10 or another league and make a big time splash. The movement works both ways.

The 1 immediate transfer rule per player is a fair compromise.

However, while some see super-teams - I see a better distribution of talent across the whole league.

If a star player from the A10 were to look at transferring - does he want to go where there's a more crowded backcourt, or crowded spotlight for who's "team" it is? Maybe he likes being the big fish leader in a small pond.

If a P5 team goes and grabs a Ja Morant-type from a small school, does a freshman guard on the team he transfers to get pissed and leave to go to a smaller school? What if that player turns out to be a Markus Howard and now he's dominating the league as an upper classman?

The system would benefit everyone. Every "super team" you're afraid of risks losing their bench talent to find places where they'll be appreciated.

[Billyboy78]

I wouldn't be happy seeing Fatts playing for Duke or Virginia next year.

[SmartyBarrett]

[Blue Man]

I wouldn't be happy seeing Fatts playing for Duke or Virginia next year.

Why would he want to though? He's an undersized guard who loves being the underdog and is king of this team - it will be HIS team next year.

Not sure why he'd want to leave that situation as a senior.

[phipsiGD'11]

Fatts could have left and followed Dan to UConn after his freshman year. He stayed for a few reasons, but I'm sure he doesn't regret it now. How many P5s would have given him the leash he had last year and then looked for him to come back this year as a leader and realistically the best offensive option on a team vying for a tournament spot?

[Rhodyram]

Fatts could have left and followed Dan to UConn after his freshman year. He stayed for a few reasons, but I'm sure he doesn't regret it now. How many P5s would have given him the leash he had last year and then looked for him to come back this year as a leader and realistically the best offensive option on a team vying for a tournament spot?

Id worry more abt Fatts exploring his professional options more than I would worry abt him transferring.

[PeterRamTime]

I cant remember any star players from the A-10 that ever left their schools for a big time program.

Only Fordham has had a boatload of guys leave.

Duquesne has lost a few too, like Tj McConnell.

It think the new rule could have a very nice balancing effect. We might lose guys at the end of our bench like we did this year, but replace them with power 5 bench guys. Then everything would balance out nicely.

[Section104]

Interesting article. Mentions those like Crutcher, Gilyard, and Golden being at risk of being poached.

[Rhody15]

I cant remember any star players from the A-10 that ever left their schools for a big time program.

Only Fordham has had a boatload of guys leave.

Duquesne has lost a few too, like Tj McConnell.

It think the new rule could have a very nice balancing effect. We might lose guys at the end of our bench like we did this year, but replace them with power 5 bench guys. Then everything would balance out nicely.

Well yea they haven"t left because they would have had to sit out a year...

[Section104]

Fatts is going to be getting a lot of behind the scenes interest from programs...

It’s going to get dirty.

Will be interesting.

[ramster]

Interesting article. Mentions those like Crutcher, Gilyard, and Golden being at risk of being poached.

I agree with Goodman

I used to like the NBA but it’s now just a few teams with money dominate. Players get with their buddies and all go to play in the same team together.

The draft means less every year. The rich get richer

All the promising freshmen who surprise on the upside will look at opportunities to move up.

Osun Osunniyi will be long gone from Bonnies. Tre Mitchell, TJ Weeks gone.
Jacob Toppin gone
Players the P5 missed will then just go P5

Just like free agency in baseball, basketball, football.....

It will be even worse in College Basketball. And limiting it to 1 move will be short lived, ultimately will be unlimited transfers.

[steviep123]

Fatts is going to be getting a lot of behind the scenes interest from programs...

It’s going to get dirty.

Will be interesting.

That's my concern - the tampering and backdoor campaigning for whatever player to leave school X to go to school Y. You know that's going to happen.

[Billyboy78]

With this rule, if Ish Leggett is as good as we think he is, he might be here only one year.

[SmartyBarrett]

[KevanBoyles]

One thing under the proposal that everyone seems to be missing is that the first school would have to go along with the transfer. So if something nefarious is going on they have the power to stop it. Of course, they still have to want to stop it.

[McRam]

Yes, absolutely, do this. Finally. One transfer per player with immediate eligibility.

There is no transfer “epidemic,” and what usually isn’t mentioned enough in these conversations is the number of players who are run off because the coaching staff made a recruiting mistake. Plus, coaches have agency in all this. They got a guy to commit to them once, keep recruiting them. Does that suck? Maybe, but life’s not always fair.

Some people want to exaggerate the power of these “outside influences” who mess with kids’ heads and get them to leave a situation they wouldn’t have otherwise. A guy’s current teammates and staff have more access to him than anyone else. These coaches are not powerless, and they’re not always the victim. Are there guys who will jump? Of course, but there are still only a limited number of roster spots.

A school like Rhode Island will get their share of positives from this, too. It’s the right thing to do, and people will have to figure it out and adjust.

I do not agree with a school giving a one year scholarship and then have the leverage to punish the player when he wants to leave.

On the other hand when schools spend a ton of money recruiting, have a plan for the player and the school and “live by the plan” that they have gone over with the student athlete. In other words it is

then get jerked around when the kid thinks he has a better offer, and says the hell with them...

My solution is that the school offer a scholarship for a specific period of time and that is essentially a contract between the two parties. If both parties agree to a 4 year commitment, then that is what it is . One year commitment is just that

[reef]

Ugh after reading this article this really sucks the rich will get richer and the mid majors will suffer , not happy at all

[NYGFan_Section208]

Then...probably a good idea?

[reef]

That’s surprising he doesn’t like it as it may save his job ???

[NYGFan_Section208]

So far, I like it. I think it's going to have a nice balancing effect and would/could/should be a great opportunity.... especially if when we dance this year and it's effective next year.

[RamStock]

So far, I like it. I think it's going to have a nice balancing effect and would/could/should be a great opportunity.... especially if when we dance this year and it's effective next year.

I'm not sure you will like it when players like Fatts, Toppin and Martin start getting told by people that they can play in the ACC and the larger conferences and start transferring out. Think back to last year when the times weren't as good for a player like Fatts and we heard rumblings about him transferring. By not having to sit out a year players will have much quicker impulsive decisions and it won't be for players wanting to transfer to URI for the most part. We may get a few players that didn't become the superstar they thought they would in the Power 5 conferences, but it is another rule that helps the top programs. There are already too many transfers in college basketball already. This is going to make it ridiculous.

[section(105)]

.....more reasons to root for the laundry......

[NYGFan_Section208]

the sky is not falling

[eli#10]

Just wait until the best player on your team decides to transfer out in the summer long after the roster has been set for the upcoming season. Cannot see at all how this would help schools such as ours.
When was the last time a good Power 5 school had a transfer out (other than for a family type reason) that really impacted the team?
Agree with reef 100%. No question the rich will get richer.

[SGreenwell]

Just wait until the best player on your team decides to transfer out in the summer long after the roster has been set for the upcoming season. Cannot see at all how this would help schools such as ours.
When was the last time a good Power 5 school had a transfer out (other than for a family type reason) that really impacted the team?
Agree with reef 100%. No question the rich will get richer.

Every year, because if you're a great player at a Power 5 school, you don't transfer - You "graduate" from minor league basketball and play NBA basketball. And as others have pointed out, at the A-10 level, it isn't the URIs and Daytons and VCUs that are losing great players, it's the Fordhams.

In every other league and sport, increased player movement usually helps to break up dynasties and increase competition. Like, people complain about free agency in baseball and whine about how small markets (with billionaire owners) "can't compete," but it's still more competitive overall than the pre-free agency eras. Increased player movement will lead to more even distribution of talents, which will ultimately help URI.

[ramster]

Imagine when 1 player leaves, then another because player 1 left, then yet another. Could have max departures
Imagine URI has an up and coming Freshman like Jacob Toppin transfer for immediate eligibility to, let’s say:

• PC

• UConn

• UMASS

• Richmond

• Dayton

[URIRecruitingInfo]

Clearly, the blue blood programs will use this to fill holes on their rosters due to early draft entrants, injuries, recruits not panning out, etc. Also, clearly players will be receptive to the pitches from superstar coaches that playing on their superteams can get them to the NBA. Maybe it won't ever negatively impact URI but I don't know how anyone can know that right now.

[SGreenwell]

Imagine when 1 player leaves, then another because player 1 left, then yet another. Could have max departures
Imagine URI has an up and coming Freshman like Jacob Toppin transfer for immediate eligibility to, let’s say:

• PC

• UConn

• UMASS

• Richmond

• Dayton

He's already getting significant minutes at URI. In this hypothetical, why is he transferring to higher level programs - Just because? Unless he's the biggest rube in the world, he knows that programs can't guarantee him minutes, for example. In fact, he has an easier path to more staying time by staying put.

[steviep123]

Clearly, the blue blood programs will use this to fill holes on their rosters due to early draft entrants, injuries, recruits not panning out, etc. Also, clearly players will be receptive to the pitches from superstar coaches that playing on their superteams can get them to the NBA. Maybe it won't ever negatively impact URI but I don't know how anyone can know that right now.

That's what worries me...this opens the floodgates to tampering and the last thing we want is for the mid major programs to turn into a minor league for the P5s. That will also take away from the NCAA tournament.

[ramster]

Imagine when 1 player leaves, then another because player 1 left, then yet another. Could have max departures
Imagine URI has an up and coming Freshman like Jacob Toppin transfer for immediate eligibility to, let’s say:

• PC

• UConn

• UMASS

• Richmond

• Dayton

He's already getting significant minutes at URI. In this hypothetical, why is he transferring to higher level programs - Just because? Unless he's the biggest rube in the world, he knows that programs can't guarantee him minutes, for example. In fact, he has an easier path to more staying time by staying put.

It’s just an example.
With not 1 year to sit out penalty there will be many more players transferring
Just Coaching Staff changes themselves will open the floodgates for players to follow their coach
All teams and fans will have to worry every year

Welcome to college basketball free agency

[Running Ram]

How about transfer waivers for players with two full seasons at one institution and no waivers for anyone with less, barring special circumstances. There are many details to sort out for this idea to work. But unless we're talking early draft, players will be encouraged to stick it out and as we know things happen and minds change. If things are just that bad for a player, he can always go early, perhaps the period of ineligibility could vary, say a player transfers mid-season sophomore year, maybe he only sits for a half season.

[ramster]

The 6'10" Mitchell Twin Brothers from University of Maryland will be visiting PC this weekend - today through Sunday
Looking for waivers to be eligible next season