KeaneyBlue - The URI Basketball Forum

What's up with him? Is he eligible? Some people are saying he's just not ready. Is a guy who played 2 years of JC ball less ready than 3 kids right out of high school? Supposedly one thing he does well is shoot. Why not throw him out there and see if he can hit some shots, especially when nobody else can that night? Is he that bad on defense? He didn't even play against LIU and one of the walk-ons did. I'm not posting this to say he should be playing ahead of anybody who is (except maybe a walk-on). I'm just wondering why he isn't. Once again, is he eligible?

Eligible and not ready. At all. Offensively or defensively.

Great use of a scholarship for a JC transfer

DC_Rams wrote: ↑4 years ago Eligible and not ready. At all. Offensively or defensively.

Not even ready at the end of a game against LIU? But Dadika is?

DC_Rams wrote: ↑4 years ago Eligible and not ready. At all. Offensively or defensively.

And that's a good point about the scholarship. If he's not ready offensively or defensively....at all, what is the hope? Maybe he'll play a little bit next year, in his final year? Why offer him a scholarship?

Did he look that lost in the scrimmage?

Heard the same from the staff that “he is not ready” ... puzzling

PeterRamTime wrote: ↑4 years ago Did he look that lost in the scrimmage?

You mean against RIC? He hardly played at all in that game either.

Billyboy78 wrote: ↑4 years ago

DC_Rams wrote: ↑4 years ago Eligible and not ready. At all. Offensively or defensively.

And that's a good point about the scholarship. If he's not ready offensively or defensively....at all, what is the hope? Maybe he'll play a little bit next year, in his final year? Why offer him a scholarship?

He was the 11th scholarship. Not sure what kind of guy we were expecting to fill the 11th ship. At the time, I’m sure, it was believed Sheppard and Walker would be clear.

DC_Rams wrote: ↑4 years ago

Billyboy78 wrote: ↑4 years ago

DC_Rams wrote: ↑4 years ago Eligible and not ready. At all. Offensively or defensively.

And that's a good point about the scholarship. If he's not ready offensively or defensively....at all, what is the hope? Maybe he'll play a little bit next year, in his final year? Why offer him a scholarship?

He was the 11th scholarship. Not sure what kind of guy we were expecting to fill the 11th ship. At the time, I’m sure, it was believed Sheppard and Walker would be clear.

Why would they believe Sheppard would be cleared? If they truly believed that, it was a huge mistake.

Having to fill roster spots in the Spring can be a gamble. There’s often a reason some guys are still available, and I think we see that with Sheppard and Johnson, It can work out, of course. Munford was an excellent spring signee, and I think Toppin has a chance to be very good. Roster management is another thing, like scheduling, that doesn’t always get a lot of attention but is so important and keeps coaches up at night. Nothing to be done now, though, they have the roster they’re rolling with.

ace wrote: ↑4 years ago Having to fill roster spots in the Spring can be a gamble. There’s often a reason some guys are still available, and I think we see that with Sheppard and Johnson, It can work out, of course. Munford was an excellent spring signee, and I think Toppin has a chance to be very good. Roster management is another thing, like scheduling, that doesn’t always get a lot of attention but is so important and keeps coaches up at night. Nothing to be done now, though, they have the roster they’re rolling with.

This is all true but JC guys have to be evaluated with a different improvement arc than a true frosh, especially since they often come with some academic (APR) risk. You have to think they are rotation ready when you make the offer. With a guy like Toppin, you can identify one or two elite traits and hope the other skills come along over a year or two. Then you have an all league type guy. Whiffing on a JC this badly is really rough. I get the spring comment but it is a little dated. Grad transfers are a huge market and sometimes don't come until mid-summer.

My point, if you missed it- having to fill multiple roster spots in the spring is not the move for a program like URI.

ace wrote: ↑4 years ago My point, if you missed it- having to fill multiple roster spots in the spring is not the move for a program like URI.

I got it. My response was that there are multiple options (frosh, wait on grad xfer, bank the schollie, JC). Of course it keeps almost every non blue blood coach awake. If you go the JC route, you have to really be sure for multiple reasons. Getting (if the reports are right about Johnson) one rotation year out of four years of scholarship from Johnson and Sheppard (and who knows if we are going to get that) is a really big blunder of evaluation/doing transcript homework. I get it that guys like Blackshear are not likely to come to URI. Matt Milon was a grad transfer who went from W&M to UCF. 42% career shooter from three. Tyler Scanlon went from BU to Belmont. There are a million guys who can stand in the corner and be a threat. And it is a one year commitment if it goes wrong.

Yes, Sheppard may never play for us, and Johnson might play very little.

By later this season, I would think the staff will have to evaluate what they have to do with both....and cutting one or both of them could be very possible.

Really could use those spots to maybe find a grad transfer or another JC that can help right away with shooting. And make sure they are qualified lol.

I think it is tough to write the kid off two games into the season because he is not ready to play yet. You could have the same problem with a grad transfer who has to come in and learn to play the level of D we expect before you get to see minutes. It is a big difference playing in the NEC to coming here where the expectation is to be a top 40 team each year.

rhodylaw wrote: ↑4 years ago I think it is tough to write the kid off two games into the season because he is not ready to play yet. You could have the same problem with a grad transfer who has to come in and learn to play the level of D we expect before you get to see minutes. It is a big difference playing in the NEC to coming here where the expectation is to be a top 40 team each year.

Really never considered writing anyone off until I heard the not ready comments. Those rarely surface unless the player is miles from contributing. Would be pleasantly surprised and more than happy to mea culpa if he comes around. Sure could use him.

Doesn’t look like DJ will be a rotation player

If the coach doesn’t have confidence in him or doesn’t feel he is ready he will play other guys

I must be missing something. Is basketball in junior college a different game than in Division 1? It it more like say... lacrosse or volleyball???
How do you recruit someone, go watch him play BASKETBALL repeatedly , analyze his ability, offer him a scholarship enroll him and then after a few months of practice say he’s not even close to being capable on offense or freakin defense to being equipped to play A10 basketball??? How is that possible?!? Could someone explain that to me??

Well we gave a scholarship to Aris. That was a huge whiff.

Guess this is another one.

CHICO 78 wrote: ↑4 years ago I must be missing something. Is basketball in junior college a different game than in Division 1? It it more like say... lacrosse or volleyball???
How do you recruit someone, go watch him play BASKETBALL repeatedly , analyze his ability, offer him a scholarship enroll him and then after a few months of practice say he’s not even close to being capable on offense or freakin defense to being equipped to play A10 basketball??? How is that possible?!? Could someone explain that to me??

This is NOT unique to URI. Almost every team in America has these types of guys. DJ will see the floor at some point, but right now, considering he just arrived on campus in Sept, the concepts are just not clicking yet. Right now he is more of a liability, than an asset. Contrary to popular belief, there is more to basketball than just being able to knock down a jump shot at THIS level.

This is URI.. As much as we would like 13 scholarship players providing meaningful minutes it's probably never going to happen. If it does there will probably be more transfers. There just aren't enough minutes for 13 players. No one expected the Walker and Shepard situations.. DJ was brought here for and end of bench, practice player

I agree with Walker, 1980.

Not so with Sheppard. They HOPED he would be eligible.

Bad mistake. The odds of him becoming eligible were never that good. And that's not a guess on my part.

Our bench FG% is 28%.

theblueram wrote: ↑4 years ago Our bench FG% is 28%.

The bench is 3 frosh and a soph. I’d say that’s the universal average for frosh not at Kentucky or Duke.

ram1980 wrote: ↑4 years ago This is URI.. As much as we would like 13 scholarship players providing meaningful minutes it's probably never going to happen. If it does there will probably be more transfers. There just aren't enough minutes for 13 players. No one expected the Walker and Shepard situations.. DJ was brought here for and end of bench, practice player

This statement is dead on. I was real surprised how excited people were when we got Johnson. He wasn’t a highly regarded juco recruit and I saw his ceiling, although different type players to be similar to Preston. I think in some cases URI and most schools take a shot with their 12th and 13th scholarship on an athlete who they hope can develop or hit the jackpot on. Look at Kentucky, Kansas and all these big schools with Mading. He has done nothing against good competition to see his stock rise so high.

RamStock wrote: ↑4 years ago

ram1980 wrote: ↑4 years ago This is URI.. As much as we would like 13 scholarship players providing meaningful minutes it's probably never going to happen. If it does there will probably be more transfers. There just aren't enough minutes for 13 players. No one expected the Walker and Shepard situations.. DJ was brought here for and end of bench, practice player

This statement is dead on. I was real surprised how excited people were when we got Johnson. He wasn’t a highly regarded juco recruit and I saw his ceiling, although different type players to be similar to Preston. I think in some cases URI and most schools take a shot with their 12th and 13th scholarship on an athlete who they hope can develop or hit the jackpot on. Look at Kentucky, Kansas and all these big schools with Mading. He has done nothing against good competition to see his stock rise so high.

Maybe, but there was nobody available that could knock down a three? even if defense was weak? instead we go for a guy the same size as 6 or 7 others, that is not ready to play? Doesn't seem like the best plan to me.

RamStock wrote: ↑4 years ago

ram1980 wrote: ↑4 years ago This is URI.. As much as we would like 13 scholarship players providing meaningful minutes it's probably never going to happen. If it does there will probably be more transfers. There just aren't enough minutes for 13 players. No one expected the Walker and Shepard situations.. DJ was brought here for and end of bench, practice player

This statement is dead on. I was real surprised how excited people were when we got Johnson. He wasn’t a highly regarded juco recruit and I saw his ceiling, although different type players to be similar to Preston. I think in some cases URI and most schools take a shot with their 12th and 13th scholarship on an athlete who they hope can develop or hit the jackpot on. Look at Kentucky, Kansas and all these big schools with Mading. He has done nothing against good competition to see his stock rise so high.

Not really. In a perfect world scholarships 10-13 are two guys from the bottom half of successive recruiting classes that the staff evaluates and sees one elite skill and/or athletic potential (Toppin) that either develop the rest of their game and become impact or rotation players or transfer down. We can go round and round on this but they blundered these JUCOs and there is really no other way to look at it. Maybe you have the dead weight of a junior or senior four year guy that really hasn't panned out that you don't want to push out. But you should never get a JuCo as if practice player is an OK outcome.

Gonebarongone wrote: ↑4 years ago

RamStock wrote: ↑4 years ago

ram1980 wrote: ↑4 years ago This is URI.. As much as we would like 13 scholarship players providing meaningful minutes it's probably never going to happen. If it does there will probably be more transfers. There just aren't enough minutes for 13 players. No one expected the Walker and Shepard situations.. DJ was brought here for and end of bench, practice player

This statement is dead on. I was real surprised how excited people were when we got Johnson. He wasn’t a highly regarded juco recruit and I saw his ceiling, although different type players to be similar to Preston. I think in some cases URI and most schools take a shot with their 12th and 13th scholarship on an athlete who they hope can develop or hit the jackpot on. Look at Kentucky, Kansas and all these big schools with Mading. He has done nothing against good competition to see his stock rise so high.

Not really. In a perfect world scholarships 10-13 are two guys from the bottom half of successive recruiting classes that the staff evaluates and sees one elite skill and/or athletic potential (Toppin) that either develop the rest of their game and become impact or rotation players or transfer down. We can go round and round on this but they blundered these JUCOs and there is really no other way to look at it. Maybe you have the dead weight of a junior or senior four year guy that really hasn't panned out that you don't want to push out. But you should never get a JuCo as if practice player is an OK outcome.

I agree with what you are saying as that is what should happen in a perfect world. It would be nice to get a few Toppins and develop guys to replace graduating players. It just doesn’t happen for the most part. I thought Johnson was a bad signing. I know people disagreed with me and he is a good athlete and can shoot and everything else. I just don’t see lowly rated jucos panning out in the A-10. There are some jucos that end up being very good,but Johnson didn’t seem like one of them. It would been much better to get a guard and let him practice, develop and learn

I think a big problem with these message boards (not just yours) is how quickly potential and conjecture becomes fact. There are a lot of posts on here who talk about “hitting” on Toppin as though he’s a known commodity already. He had 1 good game against a team that they fully outmanned. Raising the expectations for someone like that is going to set the kid up to be regarded as a disappointment as the year goes on. Trust me, we are doing the same thing over on board with Gantt, and I think it’s a huge mistake. These kids have like 35 min of college basketball under their belts.

PCFriars wrote: ↑4 years ago I think a big problem with these message boards (not just yours) is how quickly potential and conjecture becomes fact. There are a lot of posts on here who talk about “hitting” on Toppin as though he’s a known commodity already. He had 1 good game against a team that they fully outmanned. Raising the expectations for someone like that is going to set the kid up to be regarded as a disappointment as the year goes on. Trust me, we are doing the same thing over on board with Gantt, and I think it’s a huge mistake. These kids have like 35 min of college basketball under their belts.

#toppintime

PCFriars wrote: ↑4 years ago I think a big problem with these message boards (not just yours) is how quickly potential and conjecture becomes fact. There are a lot of posts on here who talk about “hitting” on Toppin as though he’s a known commodity already. He had 1 good game against a team that they fully outmanned. Raising the expectations for someone like that is going to set the kid up to be regarded as a disappointment as the year goes on. Trust me, we are doing the same thing over on board with Gantt, and I think it’s a huge mistake. These kids have like 35 min of college basketball under their belts.

Dayton did not take your advice with Obi Toppin, and look where Obi is now.

Gonebarongone wrote: ↑4 years ago

RamStock wrote: ↑4 years ago

ram1980 wrote: ↑4 years ago This is URI.. As much as we would like 13 scholarship players providing meaningful minutes it's probably never going to happen. If it does there will probably be more transfers. There just aren't enough minutes for 13 players. No one expected the Walker and Shepard situations.. DJ was brought here for and end of bench, practice player

This statement is dead on. I was real surprised how excited people were when we got Johnson. He wasn’t a highly regarded juco recruit and I saw his ceiling, although different type players to be similar to Preston. I think in some cases URI and most schools take a shot with their 12th and 13th scholarship on an athlete who they hope can develop or hit the jackpot on. Look at Kentucky, Kansas and all these big schools with Mading. He has done nothing against good competition to see his stock rise so high.

Not really. In a perfect world scholarships 10-13 are two guys from the bottom half of successive recruiting classes that the staff evaluates and sees one elite skill and/or athletic potential (Toppin) that either develop the rest of their game and become impact or rotation players or transfer down. We can go round and round on this but they blundered these JUCOs and there is really no other way to look at it. Maybe you have the dead weight of a junior or senior four year guy that really hasn't panned out that you don't want to push out. But you should never get a JuCo as if practice player is an OK outcome.

My kind of "problem" with posts like this, though, not to single you out - What *is* the percentage of "end of bench" guys who develop and become rotation pieces? Like, conference-wide, and college basketball-wide. I don't know, and I'd love if someone had done the leg work on this already somewhere on the Internet to find out.

At least from my experience with URI, it's really a lot rarer for a guy to go from a negative overall in terms of production, to even a slight positive, in a four year career. Most players are immediately good, and big jumps in production are usually more about a guy getting minutes vs. improving their game. Parfait Bitee went from 0.6 and 0.9 win shares his freshman and sophomore years, to 3.9 as a senior. T.J. Buchanan had gradual improvement over four years, but I think that's way more rare than people realize. (Again, I'd really like to see if someone has done the legwork on this.)

To me it’s not about the kid himself but the structure of the roster. Short on ball handlers, extra wings

Unbalanced roster for sure. That's why I've said we are an incomplete team.

And we will suffer for it.

SGreenwell wrote: ↑4 years ago

Gonebarongone wrote: ↑4 years ago

RamStock wrote: ↑4 years ago

This statement is dead on. I was real surprised how excited people were when we got Johnson. He wasn’t a highly regarded juco recruit and I saw his ceiling, although different type players to be similar to Preston. I think in some cases URI and most schools take a shot with their 12th and 13th scholarship on an athlete who they hope can develop or hit the jackpot on. Look at Kentucky, Kansas and all these big schools with Mading. He has done nothing against good competition to see his stock rise so high.

Not really. In a perfect world scholarships 10-13 are two guys from the bottom half of successive recruiting classes that the staff evaluates and sees one elite skill and/or athletic potential (Toppin) that either develop the rest of their game and become impact or rotation players or transfer down. We can go round and round on this but they blundered these JUCOs and there is really no other way to look at it. Maybe you have the dead weight of a junior or senior four year guy that really hasn't panned out that you don't want to push out. But you should never get a JuCo as if practice player is an OK outcome.

My kind of "problem" with posts like this, though, not to single you out - What *is* the percentage of "end of bench" guys who develop and become rotation pieces? Like, conference-wide, and college basketball-wide. I don't know, and I'd love if someone had done the leg work on this already somewhere on the Internet to find out.

At least from my experience with URI, it's really a lot rarer for a guy to go from a negative overall in terms of production, to even a slight positive, in a four year career. Most players are immediately good, and big jumps in production are usually more about a guy getting minutes vs. improving their game. Parfait Bitee went from 0.6 and 0.9 win shares his freshman and sophomore years, to 3.9 as a senior. T.J. Buchanan had gradual improvement over four years, but I think that's way more rare than people realize. (Again, I'd really like to see if someone has done the legwork on this.)

Interesting conversation, wish we had the numbers. A guy like Berry is another single example of growing into a solid role but probably not the norm. He had such an obvious barrier to success but once he got in better shape, you saw more of his skills. Managing that back end of the roster is important. I think some fans, at times, can be too casual about guys leaving before their time is up and then get overly hyped for any replacement... the optimism of the lesser known.

ace wrote: ↑4 years ago

SGreenwell wrote: ↑4 years ago

Gonebarongone wrote: ↑4 years ago

Not really. In a perfect world scholarships 10-13 are two guys from the bottom half of successive recruiting classes that the staff evaluates and sees one elite skill and/or athletic potential (Toppin) that either develop the rest of their game and become impact or rotation players or transfer down. We can go round and round on this but they blundered these JUCOs and there is really no other way to look at it. Maybe you have the dead weight of a junior or senior four year guy that really hasn't panned out that you don't want to push out. But you should never get a JuCo as if practice player is an OK outcome.

My kind of "problem" with posts like this, though, not to single you out - What *is* the percentage of "end of bench" guys who develop and become rotation pieces? Like, conference-wide, and college basketball-wide. I don't know, and I'd love if someone had done the leg work on this already somewhere on the Internet to find out.

At least from my experience with URI, it's really a lot rarer for a guy to go from a negative overall in terms of production, to even a slight positive, in a four year career. Most players are immediately good, and big jumps in production are usually more about a guy getting minutes vs. improving their game. Parfait Bitee went from 0.6 and 0.9 win shares his freshman and sophomore years, to 3.9 as a senior. T.J. Buchanan had gradual improvement over four years, but I think that's way more rare than people realize. (Again, I'd really like to see if someone has done the legwork on this.)

Interesting conversation, wish we had the numbers. A guy like Berry is another single example of growing into a solid role but probably not the norm. He had such an obvious barrier to success but once he got in better shape, you saw more of his skills. Managing that back end of the roster is important. I think some fans, at times, can be too casual about guys leaving before their time is up and then get overly hyped for any replacement... the optimism of the lesser known.

It is a good convo and one of my favorite parts of watching the sport and what I miss about a generation ago. I don't begrudge a kid leaving. You only have one four year shot. And coaches are certainly taking off for more money or getting canned all of the time. But, it's great when a Frank Kaminsky type struggles, sticks with it, and blossoms. Zach Auguste is one. Omar Silverio sort of scares me that he is going to end up being really good. I am sure I can dust off the cob webs for guys from the 80s and 90s. I agree it's more of an art than a science the back half of the roster.

I don’t mind players leaving. I’m all for them having agency and making their own decisions.

I don’t like coaches pushing out players- be honest with them about their playing prospects, sure, but don’t force them to move on when you made the recruiting mistake.

The overall bigger problem is Cox' goal was to bring in experience and shooters. Of the three transfers two are ineligible and one is the last on the bench . Bottom line: didn't meet goals.

Bingo.

Maybe if the AD had supported Cox we would be better off.You forced the leaving of the recruiter. Then you screw around in allowing Cox to hire 2 Assistants . You force a person on him so there isn't a lawsuit. You delay the posting of an asst. coach job until most anyone that may have wanted the position it was unable to leave the school they were at leaving Cox to take someone to keep the lawyers happy. You show no effort in supporting the BB program with the assistant's pay scale, use of the NCAA money or the practice area.
Was Cox giving a chance to improve the team this year with an AD that thinks football should be the major sport. The AD was very good at tieing the hands of our BB coach.

And Bergeron and Tre Mitchell were both out there looking for a home when that was all happening fwiw.

Umass hired Tre Mitchell's prep coach as an assistant before he committed. And, by the way, the prep coach has been dating Mitchell's mother.

Why does it matter who the guy dates? And who his mother dates? I don’t get the issue.

ramster wrote: ↑4 years ago Why does it matter who the guy dates? And who his mother dates? I don’t get the issue.

Kind of seems like it would create all sorts of weird dynamics, no? I generally don't like any of that stuff though, even when it benefits us. (Meaning, I'd be fine if, when moving from HS to college ranks, coaches were prohibited from recruiting players they used to coach at that level.)

Just throw DJ out there and let him shoot some.

If his lanky ass can make some threes then GREAT that's all we'd need from him

SGreenwell wrote: ↑4 years ago

ramster wrote: ↑4 years ago Why does it matter who the guy dates? And who his mother dates? I don’t get the issue.

Kind of seems like it would create all sorts of weird dynamics, no? I generally don't like any of that stuff though, even when it benefits us. (Meaning, I'd be fine if, when moving from HS to college ranks, coaches were prohibited from recruiting players they used to coach at that level.)

Tony Bergeron came over to be an Assistant Coach at UMASS from Woodstock Academy. A number of players from Woodstock Academy have joined the UMASS Team.
- Tre Mitchell
- TJ Weeks whose dad played at UMASS, and coached at URI, and TJ played 2 years at Pilgrim plus 2 at Hendricken - no interest from URI
- Preston Santos who also is from R.I. played at Hendricken then Woodstock Academy
- Dibaji Walker who played at Cleveland State and Woodstock Academy
- Cairo McCrory who has committed 2020 from Woodstock Academy

The 5 players from Woodstock liked Bergeron, liked UMASS, and they are playing together. There will likely be more from this pipeline.
Possibly Bergeron could get a HC job at UMASS or other School one day.
HS and Prep Coaches and sometimes Fathers go with the kids who played for them.

It happens

But what I don’t get is the bringing up that Tony Bergeron is dating Tre Mitchell’s mother. Why does that matter to anyone other than Tre’s Mother and to Tony Bergeron? I don’t get why that bothers people.

I hate to say it but i sorta wondered what was up with him as i originally heard of him as someone Iona was interested in. However i guess they sent some guys out to him and weren't like overly enthused.

URI then stepped in right after so it made it look like he was getting interest above and beyond his original level but i was surprised to hear the lack of interest from lower level teams.

It’s kind of understandable when some people started to question if some of the things they were assured were ever going to happen. It’s a solid program that sometimes tends to act smaller than it is.

Duh. Don't you think the coach / mother situation gave Umass an edge in the recruiting battles.