Providence 2019 NCAA Men's Hockey Regional

[RF1]

Was in downtown Providence by the Dunkin Donuts Center while the two hockey games (PC-Minneota State and Northeastern-Cornell) were going on yesterday. Was surprised by the lack of activity in the area. Would not have known there really was any event going on based on the view outside the arena while fans were inside watching the games. Did not really see much activity in the businesses near the arena nor much signage proclaiming the presence of the event nor welcoming fans. It was far different than the atmosphere that has surrounded the NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament when the arena and city have hosted in the past.

I must say I was shocked at how quiet it was by LaSalle Square yesterday. One of the teams in this regional, PC, is located in the city just 2 miles away. The Northeastern Huskies are just an hour up the road in Boston. Cornell may be six hours away in New York state but it has a lot of alumni much closer. Only Minnesota State came a long distance and was a difficult trip for its fans. Given the lack of any real atmosphere for the event outside the arena or anywhere downtown for that matter, I was curious to see what the attendance for the event was. Only 7,180 filled the 11,075 seat hockey configuration of the DDC. That translated to just 64% of the facility's seats being occupied for one of the four regionals for college hockey's D1 national championship tournament, its premier event.

My experience having been by the DDC for both an NCAA Men's basketball and hockey regional showed stark contrasts between the events. Not being a big follower of college hockey, it surprised me a bit to see what little excitement and fans it generated. It further confirmed my feeling, that while there are some very passionate fans, the overall fan numbers are not large and illustrated to me that hockey is much more a niche sport than is basketball. I had thought it was a unfair for PC to be sited at the DDC given it would likelly be a big home advantage to them. I found it strange that the NCAA has routinely put them at the DDC several times. What I saw yesterday around the DDC and today when I looked up the box score attendance however helped explain why. The college NCAA hockey tournament is not really a big draw on its own. It desperately needs local team's fans just to fill a little over half an arena for its premier event.

[adam914]

You were shocked to learn college basketball is more popular than college hockey?

[RF1]

You were shocked to learn college basketball is more popular than college hockey?

No. Shocked more by just how little fan support there is for D1 hockey even when it is for a supposedly premier event.

It apparently is not just like this in Providence. The Manchester-NH regional which also featured two New England and one NY state schools drew poorly as well. Its field included UMass-Amherst, Harvard, Clarkson, and Notre Dame. It attracted just 5,033 for the doubleheader on Friday and 5,679 for the final on Saturday.

My take away from the low attendance is that hockey is very much a niche sport. While there may be some very passionate fans (I once had a NU grad that worked for me many years ago that went to the Frozen-4 annually), they are an exception with the number that really follow the sport fairly small.

[Cameron_Dollar]

Two schools with whom this board is totally obsessed, PC and UMASS are both in the Frozen Four. I believe people on this board are dwelling more about their subpar basketball seasons than their own fan base. Reaching the semifinals for any NCAA championship is significant but when you look at the competition in this field, it is downright amazing. Both athletic departments should be commended. UMASS may ultimately fold up the tent for D1 Football. Unfortunately for them it's demographics and the lack of interest in the region. At least they try. Just look at UCONN and BC. Neither will ever be a football power but it is needed to be a member of a major conference and the residual dollars certainly help the other sports. As for PC, while it pains me to say, has one of the best athletic department and facilities in the Big East. While I believe having a dedicated UMASS thread on this forum is unnecessary, I am taking the bait and keeping it alive.

[theblueram]

Even with the bad attendance, I still think URI should have D1 Men's and Women's Hockey.

[adam914]

You were shocked to learn college basketball is more popular than college hockey?

No. Shocked more by just how little fan support there is for D1 hockey even when it is for a supposedly premier event.

It apparently is not just like this in Providence. The Manchester-NH regional which also featured two New England and one NY state schools drew poorly as well. Its field included UMass-Amherst, Harvard, Clarkson, and Notre Dame. It attracted just 5,033 for the doubleheader on Friday and 5,679 for the final on Saturday.

My take away from the low attendance is that hockey is very much a niche sport. While there may be some very passionate fans (I once had a NU grad that worked for me many years ago that went to the Frozen-4 annually), they are an exception with the number that really follow the sport fairly small.

Ok, that's fair, however I think this is a situation where you are just realizing something that the majority of people have known for years

[TruePoint]

Two schools with whom this board is totally obsessed, PC and UMASS are both in the Frozen Four. I believe people on this board are dwelling more about their subpar basketball seasons than their own fan base. Reaching the semifinals for any NCAA championship is significant but when you look at the competition in this field, it is downright amazing. Both athletic departments should be commended. UMASS may ultimately fold up the tent for D1 Football. Unfortunately for them it's demographics and the lack of interest in the region. At least they try. Just look at UCONN and BC. Neither will ever be a football power but it is needed to be a member of a major conference and the residual dollars certainly help the other sports. As for PC, while it pains me to say, has one of the best athletic department and facilities in the Big East. While I believe having a dedicated UMASS thread on this forum is unnecessary, I am taking the bait and keeping it alive.

If URI won the frozen four my reaction would be that I’d be livid that we wasted money on hockey. Hockey is a niche regional sport. There are only like 15 D1 hockey schools, most of which are in Minnesota and the Dakotas, so making the tournament doesn’t seem like as much of notable thing. URI should be focused primarily on basketball, and secondarily in maxing out football at the current level and keeping the baseball and soccer programs competitive. I don’t think URI is in a position financially to pursue a vanity project like top level hockey, skiing, sport shooting, lacrosse, e-games, etc. Stick to real sports.

As a side point, it’s funny you point to UConn and UMass football and saying at least they try and even though they’ll never actually be good it makes money that helps other sports. UMass and UConn foolishly pursuing FBS football has ruined their athletic departments financially. It got UConn left out of the Big East and put the program at its lowest point in 40 years. UMass’s football program has not helped their basketball program at all, and instead of having a respectable basketball program and a very good FCS program, they are jokes in both sports.

[RhowdyRam02]

If URI won the frozen four my reaction would be that I’d be livid that we wasted money on hockey. Hockey is a niche regional sport. There are only like 15 D1 hockey schools, most of which are in Minnesota and the Dakotas, so making the tournament doesn’t seem like as much of notable thing. URI should be focused primarily on basketball, and secondarily in maxing out football at the current level and keeping the baseball and soccer programs competitive. I don’t think URI is in a position financially to pursue a vanity project like top level hockey, skiing, sport shooting, lacrosse, e-games, etc. Stick to real sports.

We can always count on you to be incredibly ignorant when it comes to hockey

[adam914]

Even with the bad attendance, I still think URI should have D1 Men's and Women's Hockey.

Agree 100%.

[TruePoint]

If URI won the frozen four my reaction would be that I’d be livid that we wasted money on hockey. Hockey is a niche regional sport. There are only like 15 D1 hockey schools, most of which are in Minnesota and the Dakotas, so making the tournament doesn’t seem like as much of notable thing. URI should be focused primarily on basketball, and secondarily in maxing out football at the current level and keeping the baseball and soccer programs competitive. I don’t think URI is in a position financially to pursue a vanity project like top level hockey, skiing, sport shooting, lacrosse, e-games, etc. Stick to real sports.

We can always count on you to be incredibly ignorant when it comes to hockey

I don’t know about ignorant but I am here to shit on hockey for sure. I don’t like it, and I don’t want us to waste money on it.

[RF1]

Even with the bad attendance, I still think URI should have D1 Men's and Women's Hockey.

Agree 100%.

As long as there is enough new money that will adequately fund it and the women's program that would be required for gender equity purposes AND it in absolutely no way takes anything (scholarships, funding, support) away from any existing URI athletic programs.

[TruePoint]

Even with the bad attendance, I still think URI should have D1 Men's and Women's Hockey.

Agree 100%.

100% disagree. Why don’t we just set some money on fire since we have so much of it lying around to pursue foolish endeavors?

[theblueram]

Most D1 teams offer 18 scholarships. Usually divided by coaches discretion. Needs based aid is also applied. We already have the ice. I'm just not seeing the huge outflow of cash on hockey tbh.

[TruePoint]

If it would cost 1 American dollar that is less money for basketball, football and other sports we are already competing in, so to me that is 1 dollar too many.

[theblueram]

Well, we we were offering the basketball coach $2 million (Hurley) a year to $700k (Cox), so it seems we are not that much invested in basketball to begin with. Maybe if we pay the basketball coach $2 million a year, regardless of who it is, then I will listen.

[TruePoint]

I don’t get the obsession with wasting money but it makes as little sense to overpay the coach versus the market as it does to spend the money on a niche sport. If there was unlimited money and you wanted to overpay people and compete in every sport, then go for it. But there’s not.

[adam914]

I agree that at the moment we can't afford to add 2 hockey programs, but thats the sad part. I guess a better way to state my opinion would be that I wish our athletic department wasn't so small time that it can't afford to fund a sport that could be very successful at a northeast state school such as URI. It's absolutely a niche regional sport, but as the state school of a state in that region, we should be capable of putting a mens and womens program together and being very competitive.

[adam914]

I don’t get the obsession with wasting money but it makes as little sense to overpay the coach versus the market as it does to spend the money on a niche sport. If there was unlimited money and you wanted to overpay people and compete in every sport, then go for it. But there’s not.

Where does that view of things end though? Should we compete in any sports besides basketball and football? Or is it just that hockey itself tends to be more expensive?

[TruePoint]

It’s easier for me to take this position because I just don’t like hockey, but if we had hockey and wanted to add another sport that I liked, like baseball, it might be a tougher call for me. But at the end of the day, I don’t want to have to contract sports that we are currently playing but don’t think this is the right time to add anything either.

[theblueram]

I guess pretty soon there will be free college tuition. So no cost on scholarships. Right? We own the ice, just have to pay for a coach and travel.

[rjsuperfly66]

The funny thing in all the ignorance about niche sports, a men’s hockey team would probably outdraw the nationally played non-niche baseball team at least 5 to 1.

I’ve never seen the URI club team play, but hear they average over 300, which would be 1.5x more than the division 1 funded baseball team.

[TruePoint]

The logic behind playing baseball is not that it draws well, it’s that it’s played universally. No self-respecting school in the country doesn’t have a baseball team.

[RF1]

The logic behind playing baseball is not that it draws well, it’s that it’s played universally. No self-respecting school in the country doesn’t have a baseball team.

Baseball is the pastime of the USA. Hockey is the pastime of Canada.

[rjsuperfly66]

That is an insane argument though - Your argument as to why the school should not have hockey is because it’s regional sport that will not generate national interest, despite the fact it will draw more local interest than most sports that are well-known nationally? That seems like cave man mentality. You should want your school to play all sports it can potentially succeed at locally. URI could build a good hockey program because of its demographics. Locally it’ll be more cared about more. I’m not arguing about money or anything else (which are important factors), just the insane view that it’s a waste of resources because it’s not “national” or too “nichy.”

[Seawrightspostgame]

300 ppl? That’s good?

[TruePoint]

That is an insane argument though - Your argument as to why the school should not have hockey is because it’s regional sport that will not generate national interest, despite the fact it will draw more local interest than most sports that are well-known nationally? That seems like cave man mentality. You should want your school to play all sports it can potentially succeed at locally. URI could build a good hockey program because of its demographics. Locally it’ll be more cared about more. I’m not arguing about money or anything else (which are important factors), just the insane view that it’s a waste of resources because it’s not “national” or too “nichy.”

If you’re talking about the difference between 300 and 200 (I’ll have to take your word for it because I have no idea the attendance for these things), to me that’s not a big enough difference to base the decision on. I want my school to play baseball because it’s a traditional American sport and a traditional college sport. I don’t know what the track and field attendance is like either, but I don’t want to stop doing that so we can have a wrestling team or something.

[rjsuperfly66]

That is an insane argument though - Your argument as to why the school should not have hockey is because it’s regional sport that will not generate national interest, despite the fact it will draw more local interest than most sports that are well-known nationally? That seems like cave man mentality. You should want your school to play all sports it can potentially succeed at locally. URI could build a good hockey program because of its demographics. Locally it’ll be more cared about more. I’m not arguing about money or anything else (which are important factors), just the insane view that it’s a waste of resources because it’s not “national” or too “nichy.”

If you’re talking about the difference between 300 and 200 (I’ll have to take your word for it because I have no idea the attendance for these things), to me that’s not a big enough difference to base the decision on. I want my school to play baseball because it’s a traditional American sport and a traditional college sport. I don’t know what the track and field attendance is like either, but I don’t want to stop doing that so we can have a wrestling team or something.

I’d agree, but my point was that the club sports team is drawing 300. It’s not a real athletic program. The fact there had been any interest at all is impressive in itself. A legit division one hockey program could grow into a 1-2k event.

Whose saying cut baseball for hockey? That sounds like a straw man.

[theblueram]

300 ppl? That’s good?

I know. Right? The Hockey team draws pretty well at Boss Arena

[theblueram]

That is an insane argument though - Your argument as to why the school should not have hockey is because it’s regional sport that will not generate national interest, despite the fact it will draw more local interest than most sports that are well-known nationally? That seems like cave man mentality. You should want your school to play all sports it can potentially succeed at locally. URI could build a good hockey program because of its demographics. Locally it’ll be more cared about more. I’m not arguing about money or anything else (which are important factors), just the insane view that it’s a waste of resources because it’s not “national” or too “nichy.”

If you’re talking about the difference between 300 and 200 (I’ll have to take your word for it because I have no idea the attendance for these things), to me that’s not a big enough difference to base the decision on. I want my school to play baseball because it’s a traditional American sport and a traditional college sport. I don’t know what the track and field attendance is like either, but I don’t want to stop doing that so we can have a wrestling team or something.

Don't we have like 5 scholarships for baseball? You make it sound like every member of the team is on scholarship. Anyway, it's all a pretty lame argument. We probably have more family members of faculty attending for free than we have D1 scholarships.

[rjsuperfly66]

300 ppl? That’s good?

I know. Right? The Hockey team draws pretty well at Boss Arena

It’s not a real hockey team. It’s drawing better than the nationally popular baseball team. Problematic, no? The nationally popular, division one baseball team should comfortably have more in attendance than the nichy club sports team that can offer zero scholarships to its players and is funded not by the athletic department but by student activities funds. Who knows what a real, legitimate division one funded and operating hockey program could do at URI.

As for baseball scholarships, they get 11.7. Most times there is creative aid to get players in at no cost. No one is doing a potential club sports player any favors.

[Ramulous]

RJ

When the friars cut baseball was it to save Title IX money? Which women's team was saved?

[theblueram]

300 ppl? That’s good?

I know. Right? The Hockey team draws pretty well at Boss Arena

It’s not a real hockey team. It’s drawing better than the nationally popular baseball team. Problematic, no? The nationally popular, division one baseball team should comfortably have more in attendance than the nichy club sports team that can offer zero scholarships to its players and is funded not by the athletic department but by student activities funds. Who knows what a real, legitimate division one funded and operating hockey program could do at URI.

As for baseball scholarships, they get 11.7. Most times there is creative aid to get players in at no cost. No one is doing a potential club sports player any favors.

Our hockey club is pretty good. We won the National Championship in 06. It's a shame what they were put through when I was in school in the early 90's

[RF1]

Even less people in the seats at the DDC today for the regional final as there was just 5,231 in attendance.

[ramster]

You were shocked to learn college basketball is more popular than college hockey?

No. Shocked more by just how little fan support there is for D1 hockey even when it is for a supposedly premier event.

It apparently is not just like this in Providence. The Manchester-NH regional which also featured two New England and one NY state schools drew poorly as well. Its field included UMass-Amherst, Harvard, Clarkson, and Notre Dame. It attracted just 5,033 for the doubleheader on Friday and 5,679 for the final on Saturday.

My take away from the low attendance is that hockey is very much a niche sport. While there may be some very passionate fans (I once had a NU grad that worked for me many years ago that went to the Frozen-4 annually), they are an exception with the number that really follow the sport fairly small.

Ok, that's fair, however I think this is a situation where you are just realizing something that the majority of people have known for years

I’m surprised you are all surprised the attendance and enthusiasm for college hockey is this low. What were you expecting?

So you have PC, UMASS, Denver and Minnesota-Duluth all going to be in Buffalo NY for the Frozen Four. Exciting stuff right there.
And PC dropped baseball 20 years ago and kept hockey?

[ramster]

RJ

When the friars cut baseball was it to save Title IX money? Which women's team was saved?

It was a very unhappy time at PC when the decision was made to drop Baseball, Tennis and Golf doe the Men. PC saved 7 baseball, 3 tennis and .5 gold scholarships for men to give to women.
Even many of the women were upset about the baseball decision.

I always remember how PC has good baseball teams. Lou Merloni of the Red Sox was a very good player.

Here are some articles that describe the situation back then. The New York Times Article is very sad and has quotes from several,of the players. Nobody saw this coming at the time. Was a big surprise.

I always thought PC would bring back baseball, but doesn’t look like it will happen.

I still remember the sad day when URI dropped the men’s wrestling program. Our program was often ranked in the Top 25 and played a very good National schedule.

https://www.nytimes.com/1999/05/19/spor ... le-ix.html
https://www.thehoya.com/providence-coll ... ns-sports/

[ramster]

Just checked you can buy tix to the NCAA National College mans hockey championship Game in Buffalo $81 on StubHub right now.
My guess is prices drop from there.
PC, UMASS, Denver and Minnesota-Duluth

[TruePoint]

PC, UMASS, Denver and Minnesota-Duluth

A virtual who’s who of college athletics.

[ramster]

PC, UMASS, Denver and Minnesota-Duluth

A virtual who’s who of college athletics.

Exactly

Not surprising these NCAA Tournament Hockey events have trouble selling tickets and filling seats.

[rjsuperfly66]

PC having a hockey program is the right decision for the school, IMHO. College baseball in the northeast will NEVER be successful. I guess success is relative, can a team win its conference and make the NCAA Tournament? Sure. Is it a contender to make a deep tournament run? No. Since 1999 (the super regional era), a New England team has made 2 Super Regionals and 0 trips to Omaha. No team in this area of the country can be consistently successful. If you expand it to the Northeast, you’ll get 5 Super Regional appearances an one trip to Omaha (lost both games). So it’s great that it’s a national sport, but PC will draw significantly more interest from its hockey program than it ever would from baseball.

Now the questions about PC getting rid of it’s baseball team, it was and will always be a terrible, short-sighted, spiteful decision. That’s a different conversation all together.

[ramster]

No reason why PC couldn’t have had both Baseball and Hockey. Did not have to be either or.

[rjsuperfly66]

100% right it didn’t have to be either/or. It was a complete misunderstanding or ignorance about Title IX that led to the dismantling of the baseball team. Perhaps some might view it as a proactive strike. Maybe that was true. But at that time no programs had to get cut, not unless there were women’s programs that wanted varsity inclusion that the school was looking to avoid. The school did not have good leadership through that process. That is why many are disappointed that Father Stanley has met his term limit. He understood and appreciated the importance sports had in the collegiate environment. Hopefully his successor does as well.

[RhowdyRam02]

Even with the bad attendance, I still think URI should have D1 Men's and Women's Hockey.

The "bad" attendance people cite as a reason to not have hockey is better than every sport we offer other than men's basketball. Hockey very well could have higher attendance than football over the course of an entire season, though obviously not on a per game basis. It would certainly have higher attendance than baseball, cross country, golf, soccer, and track and field. There is no logical argument for us to have a golf program over a hockey program and you could probably add cross country and track and field to that as well

[RhowdyRam02]

Even with the bad attendance, I still think URI should have D1 Men's and Women's Hockey.

Agree 100%.

As long as there is enough new money that will adequately fund it and the women's program that would be required for gender equity purposes AND it in absolutely no way takes anything (scholarships, funding, support) away from any existing URI athletic programs.

A women's program wouldn't need to be added at the same time if we replaced the golf program with hockey and used the existing golf scholarships along with some track and cross country scholarships to get the full complement of scholarships for hockey. And anyone that would rather have golf at URI than hockey is just not being rational

[ramster]

So why don’t we have Hockey then?

[RhowdyRam02]

Even with the bad attendance, I still think URI should have D1 Men's and Women's Hockey.

Agree 100%.

100% disagree. Why don’t we just set some money on fire since we have so much of it lying around to pursue foolish endeavors?

Every athletic program other than men's basketball is lighting money on fire. It's about finding the best ways to do that.

[RhowdyRam02]

300 ppl? That’s good?

For a club sport it actually is. It's more than every varsity sport other than the basketball programs, football, and probably men's soccer as well.

[RhowdyRam02]

PC, UMASS, Denver and Minnesota-Duluth

A virtual who’s who of college athletics.

Well it's no North Dakota State, Eastern Washington, South Dakota State, and Maine, but what is?

[RF1]

If the Buffalo arena gets attendance above 55% capacity, it will exceed the percentage for the combined regionals of Providence and Manchester this past weekend.

[ramster]

Agree 100%.

100% disagree. Why don’t we just set some money on fire since we have so much of it lying around to pursue foolish endeavors?

Every athletic program other than men's basketball is lighting money on fire. It's about finding the best ways to do that.

It’s a question of how much money is being “burned” or “invested” in the School depending on how you look at it

To compare Hockey to Golf I’d think Hockey would have a higher cost due to HC and Assistant Salaries, recruiting budgets, Insurance for Injuries, Equipment and Uniforms, Travel, Building Costs, Tickets and Administration.
Do you know what Thor and Dooley think of going D1 Hockey? What are their Pros and Cons
Interesting Bryant doesn’t have D1 Hockey, being in Northern RI. Southern RI does not seem to share the same level of interest as Central and Northern RI.
Only 60 Schools have D1 Hockey Nationally, compared to 353 D1 Basketball teams

Do Thor and Dooley have any plans for D1 Hockey in the future? What would make sense is that we already have the arena.

I wouldn’t want to give up Any current sports for Hockey, especially Football.....IF hockey HAS to be added. I’m just not a Hockey fan. Only Boston Bruins at playoff time, not even during the season. I’ll go to any URI sport, men’s or women’s, and I do, but a Hockey game would be a tough sell for me.

[TruePoint]

Me and ramster are currently, and strangely, on 100% the same wave length.