Possible Big East Expansion

steviep123 · Unread post by **steviep123** » 5 years ago

Probably speculative at this point, but NBCSports posted this article today:

https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com ... expansion/

Honestly, I think 10 teams is perfect for that league (and sometimes I wish we were back to a true Atlantic 10 as well). You can do a reasonable round robin of 18 games (home and away with everyone) and have room for 12 non conference games. Of course everyone else is going to 20, so adding a team would keep playing everyone twice with a 20 game schedule. Here's hoping if it happens that A - they don't yet again raid the A10, and B - they pick a team (or teams) that fail spectacularly (hey - do you guys want Fordham)? I don't see the latter happening....as much as most of us root against the Big East (although I don't really hate this iteration as much as before the big split), they have historically done an excellent job, even if part of it included raiding the A10.

Da_Process_Survivor · Unread post by **Da_Process_Survivor** » 5 years ago

0% chance its UConn

1. because of football. UConn, for some reason, still has a hard on for being a top flight D1 football program.

2. because they bolted from the Big East the 1st chance they got and thought they were in sweet with the ACC. Problem was the ACC said not thanks and they got left in the cold. They then doubled down by trying to sue the ACC

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 5 years ago

If the A-10 were to get poached again, the most likely school to get an invite would be St Louis. It is a Catholic school in a large metro market with no other Big East schools nearby. While Dayton on many levels seems to fit the profile for the BE, metro Dayton is not a large market and Xavier considers them to be in their territory. For those reasons, I don't think the Big East will be especially keen on Dayton.

ElmCityRhody · Unread post by **ElmCityRhody** » 5 years ago

FORDHAM - they are a perfect fit

Da_Process_Survivor · Unread post by **Da_Process_Survivor** » 5 years ago

RF1 wrote: ↑5 years ago If the A-10 were to get poached again, the most likely school to get an invite would be St Louis. It is a Catholic school in a large metro market with no other Big East schools nearby. While Dayton on many levels seems to fit the profile for the BE, metro Dayton is not a large market and Xavier considers them to be in their territory. For those reasons, I don't think the Big East will be especially keen on Dayton.

agreed.

if the Big East was coming for 2 schools, I'd bet my money on St Louis and VCU

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 5 years ago

If the Big East expands, it will be just one team.
The conference loves the double round robin, and to accommodate the 11th team, you go from 18 conference games to 20.
If they make said move, I think they'll be looking to make a particularly large splash to solidify the next TV contract as well as a long-term contract extension with MSG for the conference tournament.
I don't know what they ultimately do, but I think you'll keep hearing UCONN and Gonzaga as "marquee" additions and schools like VCU and St. Louis as potential logical additions.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 5 years ago

The addition of UCONN to the Big East is probably the most likely
How Ironic that the UCONN Boneyard and PC Message Board were so critical of Hurley and his sideline antics when he was at URI but then they embrace our guy now

The trend is for more Conference Games so the BE can go to 20 just like their P5 Rivals

It has to be driving the BE Aristocracy crazy to have the AAC add Wichita State but then even worse is to have Hurley quickly moving forward with his plan to make UCONN a Top 25 Program. To add insult to injury now Memphis with Penny Hardaway is making a lot of noise too.

The BE fears being overtaken by the AAC and rightfully so - the gap is closing plus the P5 is getting stronger, especially the SE Conference

Hurley has already landed:
#40 Akok Akok
#87 James Bouknight
#97 Jalen Gaffney

Hardaway has landed 2 Five Star Players:
#1 James Wiseman a 7 footer
#22 DJ Jeffries

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 5 years ago

ramster wrote: ↑5 years ago The addition of UCONN to the Big East is probably the most likely
How Ironic that the UCONN Boneyard and PC Message Board were so critical of Hurley and his sideline antics when he was at URI but then they embrace our guy now
The trend is for more Conference Games so the BE can go to 20 just like their P5 Rivals

It has to be driving the BE Aristocracy crazy to have the AAC add Wichita State but then even worse is to have Hurley quickly moving forward with his plan to make UCONN a Top 25 Program. To add insult to injury now Memphis with Penny Hardaway is making a lot of noise too.

The BE fears being overtaken by the AAC and rightfully so - the gap is closing plus the P5 is getting stronger, especially the SE Conference

Hurley has already landed:
#40 Akok Akok
#87 James Bouknight
#97 Jalen Gaffney

Hardaway has landed 2 Five Star Players:
#1 James Wiseman a 7 footer
#22 DJ Jeffries

I would hold off on making the AAC into something it has not been to date. Some of its teams have great past histories and still have some name recognition. The league has however not exactly distinguished itself when NCAA bids are concerned. It is is fact still behind the A-10 for number of bids since it was formed.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 5 years ago

All true RF1, but if you were a betting man and you had to wager today on who would get more bids over the next 5 years - the A10 or AAC, who in their right mind would bet on the A10??

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 5 years ago

RF1,
I would not be going on past performances. That is the point I am making. Look at UCONN already with 3 ESPN Top 100 Signees and it is only December. Penny Hardaway with the Top Ranked Player in the Nation in James Wiseman and the #22 Player in DJ Jeffries.
Head Coaches notice these things, so do Athletic Directors and so do Conference Commissioners.

It was just a couple of weeks ago that I was wondering how little Val Ackerman has done in her role as Big East Commissioner. Interesting that she finally comes out and makes a bit of noise. My guess is the AD's in the Big East are getting nervous about schools like UCONN, Memphis, Wichita State plus throw in the fact that they had no Top 25 Team for the first time since 1982 I believe.

You can look at the past but it is the future where the best AD's and the best Conference Commissioners are focused.

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 5 years ago

Ramster, you realize the BE has the reigning national champion amongst their membership right?
Of course they, like everyone, has to stay 1 step ahead of the competition but that is true in any industry. They just renenewed their MSG deal which is huge for the BE conference brand. And it's going to take more than 1 great recruiting class for the AAC to unseat the BE. Your PC bias is creeping in to this take. The BE may or may not add a team, but they aren't operating from a place of fear or weakness, nor should they be.

Rhody83 · Unread post by **Rhody83** » 5 years ago

Don’t base the future projection of a recruiting class that isn’t playing college ball yet as the justification that a league is improving.
Just look at MAL - he was rated #41 nationally. Gaffney’s Composite ranking is #154. Akok could be one and done.
I do think Hurley will make UCONN a top 25-30 team. Who knows about Memphis.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 5 years ago

https://awfulannouncing.com/ncaa/americ ... n-ucf.html

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 5 years ago

TruePoint wrote: ↑5 years ago https://awfulannouncing.com/ncaa/americ ... n-ucf.html

very interesting article

Shows the possible avenues for UCF and the AAC. I am sure other schools are in similar situations, especially those who might harbor aspirations to be in a P5 Conference one day such as UCF, UCONN, Memphis, Houston, Cincinnati and others.
Very interesting how Boise State negotiated far more money than others in the same conference.

So, there are a few possible options for the likes of UCF.
- One is to commit to the AAC for the long term, boosting its revenues and perhaps getting a larger slice of them, but writing off the dream of making it to the Power Five.
- Another is to sign a long-term AAC deal, but one without that grant of rights and at a lower dollar figure; that gives the conference some stability, but also gives the top school an out if someone else comes calling.
- And a third is to push for the AAC to only sign a short-term TV contract and then reassess once the Power Five moves become more apparent; that could leave money on the table versus a long-term deal, but it could also keep options open. We’ll see which way they go.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 5 years ago

bigappleram wrote: ↑5 years ago Ramster, you realize the BE has the reigning national champion amongst their membership right?
Of course they, like everyone, has to stay 1 step ahead of the competition but that is true in any industry. They just renenewed their MSG deal which is huge for the BE conference brand. And it's going to take more than 1 great recruiting class for the AAC to unseat the BE. Your PC bias is creeping in to this take. The BE may or may not add a team, but they aren't operating from a place of fear or weakness, nor should they be.

BAR,
For sure my PC bias is going to creep into most everything I say

But it is not just a PC bias but a Big East bias as well
I lived through the Dave Gavitt days when he created the Big East and refused to invite URI because that would be too many teams in the same TV media audience. Yet he invited UCONN, BC and Holy Cross

UMASS and URI got screwed by Mr Gavitt
UCONN broke off from the BE to go the Football and All Conference Sports route. They would love to be in Boston College's place in the ACC but BC hold the New England Spot. BC made out nicely with all sports.

For sure it will take more than one great recruiting class for the AAC to pass the Big East, but the Big East is faltering. They are not signing 18-20 ESPN Top 100 Players as they used to and they are certainly not signing Top 30 as they used to - the lone exception to that is Villanova. Xavier and Butler have fallen back.

If I were Val Ackerman, I would add an 11th team this year and be on the lookout for a 12th team. The Big East Brand is still strong, I agree, but it has dropped off and is in danger of dropping more......that is why they need to make a move. But selfishly???? I hope Val Ackerman just keep the status quo and stays with 10 teams. I'm happy to keep St Louis, Dayton and VCU right here in the A10.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 5 years ago

I feel like the undeniable strength of Villanova has covered for a lot in the Big East. Their second best program is Xavier, an A10 program, and they are very solid but not a national championship threat. Providence has benefited greatly from the exodus of the league’s true power programs and went from a fringe top-10 program in the league to a top-5 program in the league on an annual basis, but again they are not going to challenge for a national championship. Neither is Butler, Seton Hall or Marquette, St John or Georgetown. These are all good programs but without the ceiling of the top programs in the P5 conferences. On that criteria, they are closer to the AAC and A10 than the P5, but the A10 right now does not have a middle class (or even an upper class this year) that is on par with the BE. The AAC could - it has the top end programs to do it - but will always suffer from the flotsam at the bottom of their league. This is why I still think the AAC and A10 should marry their top basketball programs and split the league into football and non-football playing schools like the old BE. I know conferences have turned away from that model, but it’s the best basketball solution and the best way to keep the top programs together for the long haul and improve their basketball situation.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 5 years ago

If the BE were to take more than just St. Louis from the A10, that would dilute the A10 to the point where the AAC wouldn't consider doing that imo.

If the BE does expand I see them taking just St. Louis.....Dayton is a no go due to Xavier, and I doubt they would take VCU. Just my take on things.

If those 3 were to go, URI would be about the top program in a 1 bid league going forward. I guess we could then become the Gonzaga of what's left of the A10.....

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 5 years ago

Rhody83 wrote: ↑5 years ago Don’t base the future projection of a recruiting class that isn’t playing college ball yet as the justification that a league is improving.
Just look at MAL - he was rated #41 nationally. Gaffney’s Composite ranking is #154. Akok could be one and done.
I do think Hurley will make UCONN a top 25-30 team. Who knows about Memphis.

Sorry to disagree with you 83, but I think Hurley will surpass his accomplishment of making URI a Top 25 Team by year 5. At UCONN I think Hurley will have them a Top 25 team much sooner than in 5 years (possibly next year or the season after) and he will have them Top 10 Caliber for sure in the long run. Then add in Penny Hardaway and the big recruiting accomplishments he is having at Memphis and this AAC Conference has some good potential.

If you don't think projecting the future based on Recruiting makes any sense then the alternatives are to look at the present and/or the past to judge Conference strength.

At this time the AAC is ranked #8 while the A10 has sunk to a dismal #12. But the Big East, which most often occupied the #1 or #2 slot has now slipped to #3 behind #1 Big 10 and #2 Big 12. The 4th ranked conference is the ACC, 5th is the SEC and the 6th is the PAC 12.

woodennickel1 · Unread post by **woodennickel1** » 5 years ago

Big East is a very young conference this year I expect them to struggle a little. They have a lot of good young talent though and should be in the top three conference's in the next few years. I do agree the AAC is makung some good strides.

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 5 years ago

TruePoint wrote: ↑5 years ago I feel like the undeniable strength of Villanova has covered for a lot in the Big East. Their second best program is Xavier, an A10 program, and they are very solid but not a national championship threat. Providence has benefited greatly from the exodus of the league’s true power programs and went from a fringe top-10 program in the league to a top-5 program in the league on an annual basis, but again they are not going to challenge for a national championship. Neither is Butler, Seton Hall or Marquette, St John or Georgetown. These are all good programs but without the ceiling of the top programs in the P5 conferences. On that criteria, they are closer to the AAC and A10 than the P5, but the A10 right now does not have a middle class (or even an upper class this year) that is on par with the BE. The AAC could - it has the top end programs to do it - but will always suffer from the flotsam at the bottom of their league. This is why I still think the AAC and A10 should marry their top basketball programs and split the league into football and non-football playing schools like the old BE. I know conferences have turned away from that model, but it’s the best basketball solution and the best way to keep the top programs together for the long haul and improve their basketball situation.

It depends how you qualify "national championship threat?" How many teams are consistent national championship threats? There are maybe, being generous, 8-10. To me, a threatening team is one that has made the Final Four at least twice in the last ten years, but with different cores to their roster. To me, it comes down to very few teams. Duke, UNC, Michigan St., Michigan, Kansas, Kentucky, Villanova. So I think it's very overstated to say you need to have NC threats, because sometimes in the tournament, you get to a place where experience can make a run. In the last 10 years alone, Loyola, Oregon, Gonzaga, South Carolina, Oklahoma, Syracuse, Wisconsin, UCONN, Florida, Wichita St., Louisville, Ohio St., Butler, VCU, and West Virginia have all made runs to the Final Four. So I suppose if you remove the list of teams that got hot with one group of players, your list would diminish to - Syracuse & UCONN. That would relegate the remaining teams to some combination of tier 2 and tier 3 as teams that have gotten hot and made that deep run in one or two years with the same (or similar) core of players, but I would also argue that many of those teams -- Loyola, Oregon, South Carolina, Oklahoma, Wisconsin, Ohio St., Butler, VCU, and West Virginia - fall into the category of teams who simply got hot and arent consistently flirting with Elite 8s & Final Four with different rosters/pieces.

I also think volume of conference plays a factor, the more teams you have, the more cracks you theoretically should have. I think the ACC has outperformed everyone by so much it's not even particularly close (Big 12 the only other conference within distance). If you look at the programs to make appearances in Elite 8 by conference during that time, this would be the totals in the last 5 years:

ACC - 7 (47%)
Big 12 - 4 (40%)
Big 10 - 3 (21%)
SEC - 3 (21%)
Big East - 2 (20%)
Pac 12 - 2 (17%)

Everyone else with 1 - AAC, A10, MWC, WCC

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 5 years ago

I think with the P5 schools, you have your annual contenders in each conference that you mentioned, but you also have a way higher chance that one team has a phenomenal year and wins or is a serious threat. If UCLA or Arizona went to a Final Four or won a national championship nobody would blink, but it also isn’t inconceivable that Oregon or Washington or USC or ASU ot whatever could end up with a group of guys and a good coach that could catch lightning in a bottle. You could go league by league...if Kentucky or Florida won it all, that’s not a shock but you could imagine an LSU or Arkansas or South Carolina or something having one great year. Duke and UNC, but NC State or Miami or whatever could have a great year and be a legit contender. I think Xavier is probably a better program year in and year out than many if not all of those second tier programs I just mentioned, but it is almost impossible for me to imagine a scenario where they could win it all in their best year. Their floor is higher, but their ceiling is lower.

SmartyBarrett · Unread post by **SmartyBarrett** » 5 years ago

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 5 years ago

Honestly, if they were to take one of our schools, St. Louis wouldn't be the worst result for us. 3 tournaments in 13 years in the league, which isn't bad, but not like losing Xavier or Temple back in the day, and way outside of the rest of the conference footprint

bigappleram · Unread post by **bigappleram** » 5 years ago

I agree. Best option for us if we are raided would be SLU leaving. Key is to retain Dayton and VCU. Them along with us, Davidson, UMass, St Joe's are a solid enough core of programs that have the pedigree and history to be Top 75 programs consistently.

SmartyBarrett · Unread post by **SmartyBarrett** » 5 years ago

Also, from the Norlander article linked in the Parish tweet (emphasis mine):

What schools make for ideal candidates? The rumor mill has consistently put out a litany of programs, many of them currently in the A-10, such as Saint Louis, Dayton, Richmond, VCU, Rhode Island, Davidson and Saint Joseph's.

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 5 years ago

Ok, allow me to rephrase. Honestly, if they were to take one of our schools, hopefully it's us, the would be the best result. Seeing as I don't see that happening, St. Louis wouldn't be the worst result

steviep123 · Unread post by **steviep123** » 5 years ago

I hope there is a large buyout (I think Xavier and Butler had to pay $1 million, though I don't know if that's correct. I don't know what Temple and Charlotte had to pay) and other stipulations in place. I said this a while ago, but the A10 should have it in their agreements (in addition to forfeiting a large exit fee), that any team leaving needs to schedule a home and home with every remaining team within a reasonable time frame. (A remaining team can accept a buyout if something can't be arranged or isn't wanted).

rhodylaw · Unread post by **rhodylaw** » 5 years ago

steviep123 wrote: ↑5 years ago I hope there is a large buyout (I think Xavier and Butler had to pay $1 million, though I don't know if that's correct. I don't know what Temple and Charlotte had to pay) and other stipulations in place. I said this a while ago, but the A10 should have it in their agreements (in addition to forfeiting a large exit fee), that any team leaving needs to schedule a home and home with every remaining team within a reasonable time frame. (A remaining team can accept a buyout if something can't be arranged or isn't wanted).

I like the idea generally but there should also be a stipulation that if you move to the Patriot League (Fordham I’m looking at you) you do not need to pay the exit fee and we will give you a group buyout to never see you on our schedule again.

Rhody83 · Unread post by **Rhody83** » 5 years ago

Ramster, I didn’t put a year on Hurley/UCONN making the Top 25. I think UCONN as a Top 10 program is a major stretch out of the AAC.

I am not sure how the conference ratings are calculated but to think the Big East is above the ACC seems crazy to me. Maybe because the ACC has so many teams the bottom teams are dragging down the overall conference rating.

RJ, I would include Gonzaga, Virginia & Wisconsin in the top programs over the last 10 years and going forward.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 5 years ago

I agree, it struck me odd that the Big EST would be above the ACC but that shows how tough it is to be among the highest ranking conferences. My guess would be that the P5 Conferences gain a stronger and stronger foothold on the top 5 spots, pushing the Big East out.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 5 years ago

woodennickel1 wrote: ↑5 years ago Big East is a very young conference this year I expect them to struggle a little. They have a lot of good young talent though and should be in the top three conference's in the next few years. I do agree the AAC is makung some good strides.

Agree they are young Big East teams Nickel. Just PC for example starting 3 freshmen. The A10 also has a good influx of freshmen, many of whom have tended to be surprisingly good.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 5 years ago

bigappleram wrote: ↑5 years ago I agree. Best option for us if we are raided would be SLU leaving. Key is to retain Dayton and VCU. Them along with us, Davidson, UMass, St Joe's are a solid enough core of programs that have the pedigree and history to be Top 75 programs consistently.

St Louis makes the most sense. Importantly they are a Catholic University and geographically makes sense with DePaul, Creighton, Butler, Xavier in the middle of the US.

VCU and UCONN don’t fit as well as they are not Catholic. Dayton is a Catholic but too close to Cinncinnati home of Xavier

section(105) · Unread post by **section(105)** » 5 years ago

......maybe they could change the conference name to a Big Mid West....

UCH21377 · Unread post by **UCH21377** » 5 years ago

I'd be more concerned about the AAC looking for another basketball-centric school and going after VCU. They are mostly public schools. St L would seem to fit the BE model best. Maybe Richmond?

Rhody83 · Unread post by **Rhody83** » 5 years ago

UCH21377 wrote: ↑5 years ago I'd be more concerned about the AAC looking for another basketball-centric school and going after VCU. They are mostly public schools. St L would seem to fit the BE model best. Maybe Richmond?

VCU has club football. The AAC isn’t taking a school that doesn’t have D1 football.

woodennickel1 · Unread post by **woodennickel1** » 5 years ago

Rhody83 wrote: ↑5 years ago
UCH21377 wrote: ↑5 years ago I'd be more concerned about the AAC looking for another basketball-centric school and going after VCU. They are mostly public schools. St L would seem to fit the BE model best. Maybe Richmond?
VCU has club football. The AAC isn’t taking a school that doesn’t have D1 football.

Already have in Wichita State.

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 5 years ago

Wichita State was invited into the AAC to cover the place of Navy which only plays football. The league was playing with one less team for all its other sports. Wichita filled the void.

Rhody83 · Unread post by **Rhody83** » 5 years ago

RF1 wrote: ↑5 years ago Wichita State was invited into the AAC to cover the place of Navy which only plays football. The league was playing with one less team for all its other sports. Wichita filled the void.

Exactly.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 5 years ago

Rhody83 wrote: ↑5 years ago
RF1 wrote: ↑5 years ago Wichita State was invited into the AAC to cover the place of Navy which only plays football. The league was playing with one less team for all its other sports. Wichita filled the void.
Exactly.

But to Woodennickel’s point, the AAC is a conference with FBS Football and Basketball Teams. Navy would be an exception.
But I would say the primary reason WSU was sought after was because of being a Top 25, and sometimes even Top 10 Basketball Program.
Would the AAC go after a VCU that does not have FBS Football again as they did with WSU? Good question.

Also have to wonder if WSU fans might be rethinking their decision. Every year they were a powerhouse, not so much lately and traveling all over creation with all newly formed “rivalries”. The grass is always not greener.

Teams like Gonzaga might want to look closely at what has happened to WSU especially when the WCC is looking pretty good this year as a conference as their name is thrown around as a possible Big East addition. Does a team like Gonzaga really want to go for all that travel and create an entirely new set of rivalries as compared to the past?

rjsuperfly66 · Unread post by **rjsuperfly66** » 5 years ago

ramster wrote: ↑5 years ago
Also have to wonder if WSU fans might be rethinking their decision. Every year they were a powerhouse, not so much lately and traveling all over creation with all newly formed “rivalries”. The grass is always not greener.

Teams like Gonzaga might want to look closely at what has happened to WSU especially when the WCC is looking pretty good this year as a conference as their name is thrown around as a possible Big East addition. Does a team like Gonzaga really want to go for all that travel and create an entirely new set of rivalries as compared to the past?

I don't think it's fair to judge Wichita St's decision after 2 years. Heck, after last season they lost almost their entire program. They were a 4-seed in the tournament last year. Got upset in the 1st round but had a good regular season.

That's the ultimate motivation for any basketball-only school to switch conference. Schools are tired of getting lower seeds because of "bad" losses or lack of "quality" wins or some combination of the two.

Rhody83 · Unread post by **Rhody83** » 5 years ago

rjsuperfly66 wrote: ↑5 years ago
ramster wrote: ↑5 years ago
Also have to wonder if WSU fans might be rethinking their decision. Every year they were a powerhouse, not so much lately and traveling all over creation with all newly formed “rivalries”. The grass is always not greener.

Teams like Gonzaga might want to look closely at what has happened to WSU especially when the WCC is looking pretty good this year as a conference as their name is thrown around as a possible Big East addition. Does a team like Gonzaga really want to go for all that travel and create an entirely new set of rivalries as compared to the past?
I don't think it's fair to judge Wichita St's decision after 2 years. Heck, after last season they lost almost their entire program. They were a 4-seed in the tournament last year. Got upset in the 1st round but had a good regular season.

That's the ultimate motivation for any basketball-only school to switch conference. Schools are tired of getting lower seeds because of "bad" losses or lack of "quality" wins or some combination of the two.

The other advantage can be getting a bid during a mediocre year if you are ina 5 bid conference vs a 3 bid conference. Even better if you move to a 7 bid league.

woodennickel1 · Unread post by **woodennickel1** » 5 years ago

rjsuperfly66 wrote: ↑5 years ago
ramster wrote: ↑5 years ago
Also have to wonder if WSU fans might be rethinking their decision. Every year they were a powerhouse, not so much lately and traveling all over creation with all newly formed “rivalries”. The grass is always not greener.

Teams like Gonzaga might want to look closely at what has happened to WSU especially when the WCC is looking pretty good this year as a conference as their name is thrown around as a possible Big East addition. Does a team like Gonzaga really want to go for all that travel and create an entirely new set of rivalries as compared to the past?
I don't think it's fair to judge Wichita St's decision after 2 years. Heck, after last season they lost almost their entire program. They were a 4-seed in the tournament last year. Got upset in the 1st round but had a good regular season.

That's the ultimate motivation for any basketball-only school to switch conference. Schools are tired of getting lower seeds because of "bad" losses or lack of "quality" wins or some combination of the two.

Wichita also lost their top recruit this year when Hardaway got the Memphis job. Was a top 25 recruit that had signed with them . Wichita let him out of the Loi.

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 5 years ago

woodennickel1 wrote: ↑5 years ago
rjsuperfly66 wrote: ↑5 years ago
ramster wrote: ↑5 years ago
Also have to wonder if WSU fans might be rethinking their decision. Every year they were a powerhouse, not so much lately and traveling all over creation with all newly formed “rivalries”. The grass is always not greener.

Teams like Gonzaga might want to look closely at what has happened to WSU especially when the WCC is looking pretty good this year as a conference as their name is thrown around as a possible Big East addition. Does a team like Gonzaga really want to go for all that travel and create an entirely new set of rivalries as compared to the past?
I don't think it's fair to judge Wichita St's decision after 2 years. Heck, after last season they lost almost their entire program. They were a 4-seed in the tournament last year. Got upset in the 1st round but had a good regular season.

That's the ultimate motivation for any basketball-only school to switch conference. Schools are tired of getting lower seeds because of "bad" losses or lack of "quality" wins or some combination of the two.
Woodennickel,
Wichita also lost their top recruit this year when Hardaway got the Memphis job. Was a top 25 recruit that had signed with them . Wichita let him out of the Loi.

Interesting that Wichita State lost their Top 25 Recruit that had already signed with them to a team within their own conference - Memphis

RJ,
I wouldn't say that I am judging the decision of WSU as final, but the their fans must have some disappointment at this point in time. They were often a Top 10 ranked team similar to what Nevada is doing these last two years. Time will tell, but the travel and then having to create all new rivalries is not so easy.

PC Board is talking about Gonzaga being a team they would want in the Big East. I would cringe on this if I was a Gonzaga fan. Needing to play 20 games against Big East opponents with 10 on the road with most being a 3 hour time difference - a big change from what they have today. Right now the WCC is doing quite well for itself with 6 or it's 10 teams ranked in the Top 100:
7 - Gonzaga
20 - San Francisco
53 - Loyola Marymount
62 - San Diego
75 - St Mary's
89 - Brigham Young
then
166 - Pacific
191 - Pepperdine
199 - Portland
292 - Santa Clara
They are already in a predominantly Catholic League on the West Coast all in the same Time Zone. They have longstanding rivalries with these teams. Do the fans in Spokane really want to have DePaul, PC, St John's, Seton Hall, etc replacing these long time rivalry schools? Gonzaga plays already some very tough games this year against the likes of #1 Duke, #7 Tennessee, # 12 North Carolina (tomorrow - Saturday) plus unranked but tough Texas A&M, Creighton, Arizona, Illinois, Washington.....................
San Francisco (9-1) has improved a lot having lost only to #21 Buffalo in Belfast Ireland in a battle of unbeaten teams
Loyola Marymount (9-1) has only lost @UCLA and beaten UNLV and Georgetown
San Diego, Brigham Young and St Mary's are always solid programs
I think Gonzaga would be making a mistake to join the Big East and leave the WCC

The 6 Teams in the Top 100 for the WCC Compares to:
Atlantic 10 with only 4 teams in the Top 100
60 - VCU
69 - Dayton
74 - St Louis
78 - Davidson

AAC has 5 teams in the Top 100
12 - Houston
24 - Cincinnati
61 - UCF
68 - UCONN
80 - Temple

Big East has 9 Teams in the Top 100
22 - Marquette
27 - St Johns
34 - Villanova
43 - Butler
58 - Creighton
64 - Georgetown
71 - Xavier
85 - Seton Hall
90 - Depaul

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 5 years ago

Gonzaga is not happening. I have a family in Seattle. Anyone who has flown to/from Washington knows that Gonzaga is a non-starter in the Big East.

hrstrat57 · Unread post by **hrstrat57** » 5 years ago

Well they could then be the Gonzaga of the East I guess.....

Rhody72 · Unread post by **Rhody72** » 5 years ago

No one is discussing URI? I wish they were.

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 5 years ago

If you look at any BE realignment, rationally and without emotion (very difficult for the Dominican educated PC fans), you find there are only a few schools that are candidates. The first screen in this analysis is by conferences with the focus on the best basketball conferences without D1 football. Apart from the P5, this screen eliminates any schools in the American, Mountain West, and Mid American and leaves the A-10, MVC, and the CAA as the best remaining basketball only conferences as a source. The only candidate from the MVC remotely close is Loyola of Chicago, the CAA has no schools that meet the BE criteria not even Charleston qualifies and that leaves the A-10 with four schools - Saint Louis, Dayton, Richmond, and VCU, all of which fit in varying ways.

Gonzaga is out of the question because of the travel not because of basketball, but because of the impact on the Olympic sports. The only other possibility is Wichita State, but I believe they are in the American because they fit with the schools in that conference and they may harbor future football aspirations. So whether we like it or not, the BE will raid the the A-10, there is really no other place for them to go. The question is will they take one or two??

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 5 years ago

Rhody72 wrote: ↑5 years ago No one is discussing URI? I wish they were.

Not catholic

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 5 years ago

Obadiah wrote: ↑5 years ago If you look at any BE realignment, rationally and without emotion (very difficult for the Dominican educated PC fans), you find there are only a few schools that are candidates. The first screen in this analysis is by conferences with the focus on the best basketball conferences without D1 football. Apart from the P5, this screen eliminates any schools in the American, Mountain West, and Mid American and leaves the A-10, MVC, and the CAA as the best remaining basketball only conferences as a source. The only candidate from the MVC remotely close is Loyola of Chicago, the CAA has no schools that meet the BE criteria not even Charleston qualifies and that leaves the A-10 with four schools - Saint Louis, Dayton, Richmond, and VCU, all of which fit in varying ways.

Gonzaga is out of the question because of the travel not because of basketball, but because of the impact on the Olympic sports. The only other possibility is Wichita State, but I believe they are in the American because they fit with the schools in that conference and they may harbor future football aspirations. So whether we like it or not, the BE will raid the the A-10, there is really no other place for them to go. The question is will they take one or two??

Agree with you Obadiah
Football rules our UCONN and WSU and all,other AAC schools
Comes down to A10
VCU is not Catholic
Richmond is not doing well enough to warrant BE
Comes down to Dayton and St Louis
Dayton too close to Xavier
Best option would be St Louis

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 5 years ago

Plus when you factor in media markets, St. Louis is the best option

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