KeaneyBlue - The URI Basketball Forum

I’m not worried about URI being involved in this story directly. What I am worried about is URI’s potential best season ever being undermined the same way a champion of a strike shortened season would be. Fortunately I don’t think there is enough time for these things to come out and for the field to be cleared of guilty programs. I don’t want URI to go deep in a tournament where “Tennessee Chattanooga is a 2 seed” as they predict in the article. I think we can go deep anyways, and if other programs go down because of this later on, so be it.

We're clean. Now all we have to do is win it all....

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-colleg ... 17174.html

"NCAA officials are staring at the prospect of a tournament with a winner that will likely be vacating its title – and many others eventually vacating their appearances. There’s a lingering mushroom cloud over the sport’s upcoming showcase event that won’t go away. The most fascinating and tricky variable here is time."

Damn this off season may get ugly ??

Thank god DH runs a clean program!!

One article i saw earlier this week said as many as 3 dozen of the top basketball schools we be dragged into this. One of the attorneys of one of the current defendants said something like this is the way of life at all the top programs...

found it
""The wrong people were charged," Einhorn said. "These people are part of a situation that is much bigger than them. It's hard for me to say with a straight face that these people charged are outliers. This is what NCAA basketball is, and it's been that way for a long time.""

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... orts-agent

I think the article is an exaggeration. Trying name 50 colleges basketball programs that article claims are compromised. Until there are specifics this is just an article with speculation. This will have no impact on this year’s tournament.

It would be badass if URI went balls deep in a tourney with Tenn- Chattanooga as a 2 seed. Seriously tho imagine watching the NCAA Finals on a Monday night with URI versus Montana

A consequence of all this could be that there might soon be many plum job openings available.

Would they still be plum jobs with sanctions attached and no talent on the roster?

RF1 wrote:A consequence of all this could be that there might soon be many plum job openings available.

RhowdyRam02 wrote:Would they still be plum jobs with sanctions attached and no talent on the roster?

I’ve had both of these thoughts tonight. I guess if the money is still green, yes they would still be plum jobs. On the other hand, if this thing is truly earth shattering, maybe it changes the whole landscape of the sport. IDK, honestly, and I’m not going to waste a ton of time worrying about it right now.

It won't happen until the off season

reef wrote:It won't happen until the off season

It will never happen to the level this article says. Slap on the wrist for most programs, maybe death penalty for one or two as an example but it will not be a blue blood program.

Yea I don’t have much faith in anyone going down.

TruePoint wrote:I’m not worried about URI being involved in this story directly. What I am worried about is URI’s potential best season ever being undermined the same way a champion of a strike shortened season would be. Fortunately I don’t think there is enough time for these things to come out and for the field to be cleared of guilty programs. I don’t want URI to go deep in a tournament where “Tennessee Chattanooga is a 2 seed” as they predict in the article. I think we can go deep anyways, and if other programs go down because of this later on, so be it.

My position all year has been -- who cares?

A10 Down?? Win 'em all!

If the field is considered less? GREAT!

The thousands of times URI has been trampled over the past 20 years, teams never handicapped their victories. "Oh, Jim Barron is their coach and it's February. That win counts less because they suck then."

Did PC start counting their 7 game streak against us during our low points or wait until we were respectable?

Winners write the history and any concern from our side that basketball is down and we are capitalizing on that is wasted time. Only ppl used to losing would feel that their success could be invalidated somehow. Ride the wave and take as much as you can. Then sell that success till the cows come home with zero caveats or asterisks. Use it to build.

rhodylaw wrote:

reef wrote:It won't happen until the off season

It will never happen to the level this article says. Slap on the wrist for most programs, maybe death penalty for one or two as an example but it will not be a blue blood program.

Like in the 80s when the NCAA was so mad at Kentucky, they made an example out of Cleveland State!

Seawrightspostgame wrote:

TruePoint wrote:I’m not worried about URI being involved in this story directly. What I am worried about is URI’s potential best season ever being undermined the same way a champion of a strike shortened season would be. Fortunately I don’t think there is enough time for these things to come out and for the field to be cleared of guilty programs. I don’t want URI to go deep in a tournament where “Tennessee Chattanooga is a 2 seed” as they predict in the article. I think we can go deep anyways, and if other programs go down because of this later on, so be it.

My position all year has been -- who cares?

A10 Down?? Win 'em all!

If the field is considered less? GREAT!

The thousands of times URI has been trampled over the past 20 years, teams never handicapped their victories. "Oh, Jim Barron is their coach and it's February. That win counts less because they suck then."

Did PC start counting their 7 game streak against us during our low points or wait until we were respectable?

Winners write the history and any concern from our side that basketball is down and we are capitalizing on that is wasted time. Only ppl used to losing would feel that their success could be invalidated somehow. Ride the wave and take as much as you can. Then sell that success till the cows come home with zero caveats or asterisks. Use it to build.

I always want to play the best and beat the best. That is the point of sports, to me at least. Winning over an artificially weakened field is not as good of an accomplishment. That wouldn't be URI's fault - you can only play the teams on your schedule - but my personal preference would be to play against a full field and see where we're at.

It's a moot point, anyways - they aren't going to clear the field of dirty programs in the next three weeks.

steviep123 wrote:

rhodylaw wrote:

reef wrote:It won't happen until the off season

It will never happen to the level this article says. Slap on the wrist for most programs, maybe death penalty for one or two as an example but it will not be a blue blood program.

Like in the 80s when the NCAA was so mad at Kentucky, they made an example out of Cleveland State!

Beat me to it!

Certainly would make recruiting someone to go to URI easier.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... onal-title

Not a part of the recruiting scandal - but, the NCAA upheld its ruling that Louisville must vacate the 2013 National Championship and 2012 Final Four, in addition to being on placed on probation and having a reduction in scholarships. The FBI investigation could potentially be another big blow to the Louisville basketball program - have to imagine that there is not going to be a big pool of candidates interested in that job.

Shaolin Swat wrote:http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... onal-title

Not a part of the recruiting scandal - but, the NCAA upheld its ruling that Louisville must vacate the 2013 National Championship and 2012 Final Four, in addition to being on placed on probation and having a reduction in scholarships. The FBI investigation could potentially be another big blow to the Louisville basketball program - have to imagine that there is not going to be a big pool of candidates interested in that job.

There is a program "rebuilder" looking for a job.....hahaha

Look, he even has his red tie ready

Shaolin Swat wrote:http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... onal-title

Not a part of the recruiting scandal - but, the NCAA upheld its ruling that Louisville must vacate the 2013 National Championship and 2012 Final Four, in addition to being on placed on probation and having a reduction in scholarships. The FBI investigation could potentially be another big blow to the Louisville basketball program - have to imagine that there is not going to be a big pool of candidates interested in that job.

They have a superior facilities/infrastructure set up, engaged fanbase, and and an attractive history.
Only question is how big of a bump in the road this is....I think they'll survive, clean house, pay well and they won't have a problem getting a good candidate. LOL...Larry Brown, perfect fit?

I just gave a belated congratulations to my wife (a Michigan alum) on their 2013 National Championship....yes, I know it doesn't really work that way.

NYGFan_Section208 wrote:

Shaolin Swat wrote:http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... onal-title

Not a part of the recruiting scandal - but, the NCAA upheld its ruling that Louisville must vacate the 2013 National Championship and 2012 Final Four, in addition to being on placed on probation and having a reduction in scholarships. The FBI investigation could potentially be another big blow to the Louisville basketball program - have to imagine that there is not going to be a big pool of candidates interested in that job.

They have a superior facilities/infrastructure set up, engaged fanbase, and and an attractive history.
Only question is how big of a bump in the road this is....I think they'll survive, clean house, pay well and they won't have a problem getting a good candidate. LOL...Larry Brown, perfect fit?

Agree that this won't necessarily be a death blow to the program - just think that with more potential sanctions looming, coaches may wait until the program is at the tail end of whatever sanctions they may receive before considering it a viable opportunity.

Another potential issue, is that they have to forfeit any conference money from the NCAA tournament between 2012 and 2015 - ESPN mentions that reports say that they may be forfeiting as much as $15 million as a result.

Just an ugly ugly situation

Say it ain't so Ricky Pitino and Tommy Jurich

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-spread ... 18078.html

A little more information regarding the FBI investigation into the recruiting scandal - there was one quote from the article that stood out to me:

“There are spreadsheets detailing who got paid, how much they got paid and how much more they were planning to pay,” said a source familiar with the investigation. “The feds got everything they wanted and much more. Don’t think it will only be players who ended up signing with ASM that got paid. Those spreadsheets cast a wide net throughout college basketball. If your school produced a first-round pick in the past three years, be worried.”

Attached below is a list of the schools that have produced a first round pick over the past 3 NBA drafts, sorted by Conference.

https://sports.yahoo.com/exclusive-fede ... 38484.html

More names and schools, Chaz Williams from UMass and Isaiah Whitehead from Seton Hall among them

Schools identified by Yahoo! as possibly violating NCAA rules include Duke, North Carolina, Texas, Kentucky, Michigan State , USC and Kansas. At least 25 players are linked to impermissible benefits, including Michigan State's Miles Bridges, Alabama's Collin Sexton and Duke's Wendell Carter.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... ncaa-rules

RhowdyRam02 wrote:https://sports.yahoo.com/exclusive-fede ... 38484.html

More names and schools, Chaz Williams from UMass and Isaiah Whitehead from Seton Hall among them

come on Carlos Delfino...have more respect for yourself! Only $71 bucks? haha

URIRecruitingInfo wrote:

Schools identified by Yahoo! as possibly violating NCAA rules include Duke, North Carolina, Texas, Kentucky, Michigan State , USC and Kansas. At least 25 players are linked to impermissible benefits, including Michigan State's Miles Bridges, Alabama's Collin Sexton and Duke's Wendell Carter.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... ncaa-rules

What a shocker!

This pretty much sums up my feelings on this new report.

https://deadspin.com/who-gives-a-shit-1823260537

Jarrelle Martin took almost 60k and got beat by Gil Biruta and the Runnin Rams.

I would be upset if my team was going to get sanctions for Chaz Williams. 3600?

Odd that Brendan Haywood is on the list. I wonder what the range of years is?

Lavoy Allen? He beat us a few times.

Seawrightspostgame wrote:Jarrelle Martin took almost 60k and got beat by Gil Biruta and the Runnin Rams.

I would be upset if my team was going to get sanctions for Chaz Williams. 3600?

Odd that Brendan Haywood is on the list. I wonder what the range of years is?

Lavoy Allen? He beat us a few times.

The ledger is from 2015 though and Chaz graduated in 2014 right? Doesnt that just mean he was a normal client?

I don't care how much money players are given; its an advantage. Fine the schools.

Rhodymob05 wrote:I don't care how much money players are given; its an advantage. Fine the schools.

thing is, if the payments are directly from agents to players the schools have deniability that you cant realistically overcome. the key is making a connection between the agents and the schools, then you can hit them.

But if it stays agents and players only, you'll only see individual players being ruled ineligible for taking money.

Even then, if it does become schools too, dont expect any real punishments. It'll involve enough big programs that the NCAA will just make the rules more strict and send a "now dont do it again" memo

So after all these schools are banned from the tournament will URI be a 1 seed in Boston?

scine20 wrote:So after all these schools are banned from the tournament will URI be a 1 seed in Boston?

I don't know if you're being serious or not but the NCAA tournament starts in less than a month. There is absolutely no chance the NCAA hands out any penalties before then.

This is going to get very ugly , hopefully no penalties until off season though ???

Until the NCAA allows players to make money of their own likeness or get a SHRED of the money they make universities and shoe companies this problem will always exist.

You have a multi-billion if not TRILLION dollar industry centered around college basketball.

The back end game of shoe companies propping up grassroots and AAU programs, then leveraging the kids who go to those programs against schools recruiting them by steering them towards one of the schools that wears their apparel. The advertising dollars surrounding the NCAA tournament, arenas, pre-season tournaments, etc.

All of that money is made and changes hands while the kids who put their bodies on the line to make that money "aren't allowed' to see any of the dollars.

It's like the failing war on drugs with weed. Yeah it's "illegal" but it happens everywhere. Until you get smart and legalize/regulate it - you get all the seedy back room black market drug dealings that come with illegitimate sales.

If you want to put rules in place that can be followed, you need to actually understand what is going on, not just stick your fingers in your ears and keep pushing something forward.

The only people under investigation should be the NCAA.

Blueman - I agree with you, but I'd just point out that the FBI doesn't give any shits about the NCAAs rules. So there is something going here on that is a level deeper than the typical shadiness we all know exists around CBB.

TruePoint wrote:Blueman - I agree with you, but I'd just point out that the FBI doesn't give any shits about the NCAAs rules. So there is something going here on that is a level deeper than the typical shadiness we all know exists around CBB.

Understood. It's a corruption investigation. Business-type corruption. Because it's a business. Even though the NCAA always likes to prop up the idea that it's about school.

It isn't. It hasn't been since TV and increased ad revenue came into the picture.

The executives and administrations get to treat it as a business and reap the benefits.

The students have to work for the business but get treated like kids.

Something isn't right there.

Blue Man wrote:Until the NCAA allows players to make money of their own likeness or get a SHRED of the money they make universities and shoe companies this problem will always exist.

You have a multi-billion if not TRILLION dollar industry centered around college basketball.

The back end game of shoe companies propping up grassroots and AAU programs, then leveraging the kids who go to those programs against schools recruiting them by steering them towards one of the schools that wears their apparel. The advertising dollars surrounding the NCAA tournament, arenas, pre-season tournaments, etc.

All of that money is made and changes hands while the kids who put their bodies on the line to make that money "aren't allowed' to see any of the dollars.

It's like the failing war on drugs with weed. Yeah it's "illegal" but it happens everywhere. Until you get smart and legalize/regulate it - you get all the seedy back room black market drug dealings that come with illegitimate sales.

If you want to put rules in place that can be followed, you need to actually understand what is going on, not just stick your fingers in your ears and keep pushing something forward.

Yes, the schools make a boat-ton of money, but how much of that is profit versus reinvestment? Better charters, better practice facilities, more player perks, more marketing, etc.? Further, how do you determine worth? Do you have a salary cap? Does player 1 and player 13 get the same return? Further, wouldn't everyone just go to Kentucky/Duke since their program revenue is significantly higher than others? The answers are not as simple as cutting players checks. Even if you start giving kids money, there will still be people trying to offer more to bring them in. Even if you let kids market themselves, what's stopping Nike, Adidas, etc. from offering kids contracts and pushing them towards elite programs? The structure of college basketball has been founded on schools providing kids options and kids trying to figure out what's best for their game and their personal growth ... The second kids have to start making college decisions on money, you've ruined the whole structure for all but a handful of programs.

rjsuperfly66 wrote:

Blue Man wrote:Until the NCAA allows players to make money of their own likeness or get a SHRED of the money they make universities and shoe companies this problem will always exist.

You have a multi-billion if not TRILLION dollar industry centered around college basketball.

The back end game of shoe companies propping up grassroots and AAU programs, then leveraging the kids who go to those programs against schools recruiting them by steering them towards one of the schools that wears their apparel. The advertising dollars surrounding the NCAA tournament, arenas, pre-season tournaments, etc.

All of that money is made and changes hands while the kids who put their bodies on the line to make that money "aren't allowed' to see any of the dollars.

It's like the failing war on drugs with weed. Yeah it's "illegal" but it happens everywhere. Until you get smart and legalize/regulate it - you get all the seedy back room black market drug dealings that come with illegitimate sales.

If you want to put rules in place that can be followed, you need to actually understand what is going on, not just stick your fingers in your ears and keep pushing something forward.

Yes, the schools make a boat-ton of money, but how much of that is profit versus reinvestment? Better charters, better practice facilities, more player perks, more marketing, etc.? Further, how do you determine worth? Do you have a salary cap? Does player 1 and player 13 get the same return? Further, wouldn't everyone just go to Kentucky/Duke since their program revenue is significantly higher than others? The answers are not as simple as cutting players checks. Even if you start giving kids money, there will still be people trying to offer more to bring them in. Even if you let kids market themselves, what's stopping Nike, Adidas, etc. from offering kids contracts and pushing them towards elite programs? The structure of college basketball has been founded on schools providing kids options and kids trying to figure out what's best for their game and their personal growth ... The second kids have to start making college decisions on money, you've ruined the whole structure for all but a handful of programs.

thats just it, gotta figure on the low end schools spend 100k per athlete (basketball and football).

tuition
room and board - especially since most have separate athlete dorms that are far nicer than regular ones
flights
food
per diem on road trips
hotels
buses
training
medical attention

if you pay the athletes, you also open the door for the school to act like any other employer and charge their "employees" for the above services. Plus the pay as well as items not charged for are taxed as income.

the average athlete will not come out ahead in that scenario. dont forget any changes will be across all sports, so a typical swimmer or track athlete goes from free school, food, housing to paying out of pocket without the big money income to compensate

I'm against paying college players. It makes a mockery of education and the universities. Plus tuition, food, residence, travel, clothing/gear, trainers, dietitians, publicity, weightlifting/medical and other amenities/facilities are all FREE for each scholarship player. People don't realize the amount of work and pain families go through to pay for their children to attend a college that don't receive scholarships like student-athlete gets and don't receive nearly the benefits that athletes get. Getting paid ON TOP of the THOUSANDS spent on them is nuts.

rjsuperfly66 wrote:

Blue Man wrote:Until the NCAA allows players to make money of their own likeness or get a SHRED of the money they make universities and shoe companies this problem will always exist.

You have a multi-billion if not TRILLION dollar industry centered around college basketball.

The back end game of shoe companies propping up grassroots and AAU programs, then leveraging the kids who go to those programs against schools recruiting them by steering them towards one of the schools that wears their apparel. The advertising dollars surrounding the NCAA tournament, arenas, pre-season tournaments, etc.

All of that money is made and changes hands while the kids who put their bodies on the line to make that money "aren't allowed' to see any of the dollars.

It's like the failing war on drugs with weed. Yeah it's "illegal" but it happens everywhere. Until you get smart and legalize/regulate it - you get all the seedy back room black market drug dealings that come with illegitimate sales.

If you want to put rules in place that can be followed, you need to actually understand what is going on, not just stick your fingers in your ears and keep pushing something forward.

Yes, the schools make a boat-ton of money, but how much of that is profit versus reinvestment? Better charters, better practice facilities, more player perks, more marketing, etc.? Further, how do you determine worth? Do you have a salary cap? Does player 1 and player 13 get the same return? Further, wouldn't everyone just go to Kentucky/Duke since their program revenue is significantly higher than others? The answers are not as simple as cutting players checks. Even if you start giving kids money, there will still be people trying to offer more to bring them in. Even if you let kids market themselves, what's stopping Nike, Adidas, etc. from offering kids contracts and pushing them towards elite programs? The structure of college basketball has been founded on schools providing kids options and kids trying to figure out what's best for their game and their personal growth ... The second kids have to start making college decisions on money, you've ruined the whole structure for all but a handful of programs.

How much gets funneled to other sports? If I'm a basketball player, why do I care if there's a golf team? Why should I subsidize that when I'm not getting money? How much goes to administration and coaches salaries? Again, if I'm a basketball player why shouldn't I get paid when they make extra because I get nothing?

Rhodymob05 wrote:I'm against paying college players. It makes a mockery of education and the universities. Plus tuition, food, residence, travel, clothing/gear, trainers, dietitians, publicity, weightlifting/medical and other amenities/facilities are all FREE for each scholarship player. People don't realize the amount of work and pain families go through to pay for their children to attend a college that don't receive scholarships like student-athlete gets and don't receive nearly the benefits that athletes get. Getting paid ON TOP of the THOUSANDS spent on them is nuts.

What gets "spent" on them is drastically over inflated so the schools and the NCAA can say they don't have the money to pay. Kick out men's and women's basketball from URI, that's 26 players? How much do you think it costs URI to educate 26 kids? They can't close a single dorm. Can they even cut back one professor? Would the food ordering in dining services change appreciably for 26 fewer students? Essentially, the cost of educating them is free, the tuition and scholarship is just a book cost.

Da_Process_Survivor wrote:dont forget any changes will be across all sports, so a typical swimmer or track athlete goes from free school, food, housing to paying out of pocket without the big money income to compensate

I'm pretty sure that's not accurate. Wasn't it a big story about five years ago that basketball and football athletes could get extra? The A10 came out and said schools could offer extra in basketball to keep up with the power 5 and we wondered if CAA football would offer the extra?