11/13 | Nevada Wolf Pack | 11:30PM (ESPNU)

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adam914
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Re: 11/13 | Nevada Wolf Pack | 11:30PM (ESPNU)

Unread post by adam914 »

TruePoint wrote: 5 years ago
adam914 wrote: 5 years ago If it’s so disgraceful why did we allow it in the contract in the first place? It’s a silly thing to be so angry about anyway, but if the anger is justified then I still think it is misplaced here. You can’t willfully give someone an out and then stomp your feet when they take it.
I think precisely because it is so unheard of. We didn’t worry a lot about the buyout because there was no expectation that it would ever be used. It’s like not signing a prenup in a marriage and then getting your clock cleaned. Even then, a divorce is a much more foreseeable outcome. The reason why it’s so bad is because it is a flagrant violation of trust. It’s the equivalent of a friend blowing up a handshake agreement and telling the other guy he should have had it reduced to writing. To me, it’s as dishonorable a thing as I can imagine.
I still think that's an overreaction. By all means, if you want to root against them because of it, I think that's totally fair. I never really cared one way or another about Nevada until they injured EC and then decided not to play us. I 100% root against them all the time now. But I think that's about as far as it should go. I'm not really sure what RF1 means with things like "Not enough bad things can happen to Musselman and Nevada for me" or calling this post game incident "karma" or "reaping what you sow". I also suspect he/she will never explain any further because its kind of their move to whine about everything with no actual reasoning provided other then wanting to be angry about everything.

I also think that saying its a "flagrant violation of trust" or the analogy to a handshake agreement with a friend is an overreaction. There are no friends in this business unless you are talking about guys who have some kind of legit connection like they used to coach together or something like that. The prenup analogy also makes no sense to me. We did sign a prenup, it was a $50k buyout to protect ourselves if they didn't want to play. So when they did "divorce" us (sticking with the prenup theme here), we at least got something out of it. Nevada agreed to a contract and so did we, and nothing in the contract was broken.

The general reaction about this whole deal is what I would expect if Nevada backed out and then refused to pay the money. Then this would all make total sense to me. But the contract had two options. Play the game or pay the money. They paid the money, therefore they fulfilled their end of the obligation. Not in the way we as fans would have liked, but they still fulfilled the obligation.
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TruePoint
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Re: 11/13 | Nevada Wolf Pack | 11:30PM (ESPNU)

Unread post by TruePoint »

Well, I am not in the camp that says it is karma what happened to Jordan Caroline, nor would I want to see any kids get injured or anything. That seems pretty extreme to me. But I’ve been pretty consistent about the scheduling thing since it first came into the rumor mill.

The handshake agreement and the prenup examples weren’t really intended as analogies, because as you pointed out there are obvious factual differences. The point was more about violating expectations and what kind of people do things like that.

Since you asked, I frequently advise clients to not to press their advantage to the full extent of what may be legally permissible. I understand that there are others who take a different approach. My belief is that a contract term is put in place to prevent, rather than facilitate, injustice. Social contracts provide the lubricant for a functioning society, that call for parties to pursue mutually acceptable, equally equitable relationships in which both parties expectations are met. And it isn’t just about morals and ethics, although it is at least partially about that. It’s also about long term market viability - if your name is mud because nobody trusts you to keep your end of a bargain but instead try to weasel your way out of agreements citing technical legal arguments it will have ramifications for your business. Ultimately, there may come an exceptional circumstance where you really have to rely on such a technical argument in order to save yourself a greater pain - that’s why those provisions exist, but there is definitely a cost associated with doing that.

I don’t think any extenuating circumstance existed that warranted Nevada backing out of their game with us. When the teams agreed to the arrangement, the expectation was clearly that both games would be played, as happens in nearly every other instance in what is an exceedingly common arrangement in this particular industry. That is why I never bought the argument that URI screwed up by not having a severe enough buy out clause - it is virtually unheard of for a team to buy its way out of a return game except in the most unique circumstances. The expectation that the buy out would not be exercised was not unreasonable, and in fact the the reliance on that expectation is so common and so ubiquitous that Nevada’s use of it was clearly in contravention of Rhode Island’s reasonable expectations upon entering into the agreement - whether they technically had the legal right to do it or not. Not to mention, from a practical standpoint, the buyouts are so seldomly used and so much an afterthought that making a big deal about buy out terms could negatively impact your ability to even enter into these kinds of agreements - it would make you look unreasonable or that maybe you are up to something if you took that approach.
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reef
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Re: 11/13 | Nevada Wolf Pack | 11:30PM (ESPNU)

Unread post by reef »

I am pulling against Muss and Nevada not really for pulling out of the game against us I just kind of find him pompous and full of himself

Watching the game last night his players weren’t even listening to him he didn’t want to foul and they fouled

All that said no reason for the Utah state asst coach to verbally abuse Caroline if that’s what happened, hope someone finds out
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ramster
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Re: 11/13 | Nevada Wolf Pack | 11:30PM (ESPNU)

Unread post by ramster »

adam914 wrote: 5 years ago
TruePoint wrote: 5 years ago
adam914 wrote: 5 years ago If it’s so disgraceful why did we allow it in the contract in the first place? It’s a silly thing to be so angry about anyway, but if the anger is justified then I still think it is misplaced here. You can’t willfully give someone an out and then stomp your feet when they take it.
I think precisely because it is so unheard of. We didn’t worry a lot about the buyout because there was no expectation that it would ever be used. It’s like not signing a prenup in a marriage and then getting your clock cleaned. Even then, a divorce is a much more foreseeable outcome. The reason why it’s so bad is because it is a flagrant violation of trust. It’s the equivalent of a friend blowing up a handshake agreement and telling the other guy he should have had it reduced to writing. To me, it’s as dishonorable a thing as I can imagine.
I still think that's an overreaction. By all means, if you want to root against them because of it, I think that's totally fair. I never really cared one way or another about Nevada until they injured EC and then decided not to play us. I 100% root against them all the time now. But I think that's about as far as it should go. I'm not really sure what RF1 means with things like "Not enough bad things can happen to Musselman and Nevada for me" or calling this post game incident "karma" or "reaping what you sow". I also suspect he/she will never explain any further because its kind of their move to whine about everything with no actual reasoning provided other then wanting to be angry about everything.

I also think that saying its a "flagrant violation of trust" or the analogy to a handshake agreement with a friend is an overreaction. There are no friends in this business unless you are talking about guys who have some kind of legit connection like they used to coach together or something like that. The prenup analogy also makes no sense to me. We did sign a prenup, it was a $50k buyout to protect ourselves if they didn't want to play. So when they did "divorce" us (sticking with the prenup theme here), we at least got something out of it. Nevada agreed to a contract and so did we, and nothing in the contract was broken.

The general reaction about this whole deal is what I would expect if Nevada backed out and then refused to pay the money. Then this would all make total sense to me. But the contract had two options. Play the game or pay the money. They paid the money, therefore they fulfilled their end of the obligation. Not in the way we as fans would have liked, but they still fulfilled the obligation.
Agree with all that you said here Adam.
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ramster
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Re: 11/13 | Nevada Wolf Pack | 11:30PM (ESPNU)

Unread post by ramster »

Does anyone know which team replaced URI on the Nevada schedule?
Was it possibly this Utah Home and home series?

https://nevadawolfpack.com/news/2018/6/ ... ath=mbball
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ramster
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Re: 11/13 | Nevada Wolf Pack | 11:30PM (ESPNU)

Unread post by ramster »

Found the answer, Akron replaced URI as a home game for Nevada
In the message board thread for Nevada they say URI only had the buy out in the Contract whereas Davidson had it in their contract the option to push the game back in addition to the buy out amount.

In my belief this game would have remained had Hurley still been at URI. But we will never know that.

https://247sports.com/college/nevada/Bo ... 119704783/
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RF1
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Re: 11/13 | Nevada Wolf Pack | 11:30PM (ESPNU)

Unread post by RF1 »

Screw Nevada. I hope to see them flame out early in the NCAA tournament.
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Obadiah
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Re: 11/13 | Nevada Wolf Pack | 11:30PM (ESPNU)

Unread post by Obadiah »

Utah State is a member of the Mountain West Conference and this game was part of that schedule. Besides Nevada never would be playing an OOC home and home series this late in season.
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ramster
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Re: 11/13 | Nevada Wolf Pack | 11:30PM (ESPNU)

Unread post by ramster »

Obadiah wrote: 5 years ago Utah State is a member of the Mountain West Conference and this game was part of that schedule. Besides Nevada never would be playing an OOC home and home series this late in season.
Obadiah,
Are you referring to my comment? I said Utah, not Utah State. But reading through the Nevada board it sounds like Akron at home was the game that replaced URI. They also set up a home and home series with Utah.
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Re: 11/13 | Nevada Wolf Pack | 11:30PM (ESPNU)

Unread post by NYGFan_Section208 »

SmartyBarrett wrote: 5 years ago
Nice that the conference went out of its way to exonerate, and therefore encourage, the court storm. Well. Played.
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Obadiah
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Re: 11/13 | Nevada Wolf Pack | 11:30PM (ESPNU)

Unread post by Obadiah »

Sorry ramster, my bad.
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RhodyKyle
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Re: 11/13 | Nevada Wolf Pack | 11:30PM (ESPNU)

Unread post by RhodyKyle »

NYGFan_Section208 wrote: 5 years ago
SmartyBarrett wrote: 5 years ago
Nice that the conference went out of its way to exonerate, and therefore encourage, the court storm. Well. Played.
Everyone said the ruckus was started as a result of the court storming. The conference investigated and said "no, it was actually because things got chippy in the handshake line." They answered everyone's question in the statement. Not sure but I think I'm missing the point of your post because it has a very "old man yells at clouds" feel to it.
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ramster
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Re: 11/13 | Nevada Wolf Pack | 11:30PM (ESPNU)

Unread post by ramster »

It looks to me in the videos that the Utah State fans did not rush the floor in a dangerous fashion and had a good time celebrating.

It also looks like Caroline was the only Nevada player that was really mad and crazy mad. The assistant via. H was mad and screaming at the police but I’m wondering if that was standing up for Caroline.

Looks like a guy pissed off that he lost. Something meybecsaidvin the handshake line, for all we know maybe even started by him. We don’t know that.

All in all the whole thing makes me more pleased Utah State beat them whereas previously I did not care one way or the other.




https://www.sltrib.com/sports/2019/03/0 ... -behavior/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.si.com ... -musselman
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Re: 11/13 | Nevada Wolf Pack | 11:30PM (ESPNU)

Unread post by NYGFan_Section208 »

RhodyKyle wrote: 5 years ago
NYGFan_Section208 wrote: 5 years ago
SmartyBarrett wrote: 5 years ago
Nice that the conference went out of its way to exonerate, and therefore encourage, the court storm. Well. Played.
Everyone said the ruckus was started as a result of the court storming. The conference investigated and said "no, it was actually because things got chippy in the handshake line." They answered everyone's question in the statement. Not sure but I think I'm missing the point of your post because it has a very "old man yells at clouds" feel to it.
I think you misread me. I've long been and continue to be a bigtime fan of the court storm. I very much liked that the MWC showed themselves not to be a bunch of stuffed shirts (lol...old men yelling at clouds?) and made it clear that the court storm was not to blame.
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TruePoint
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Re: 11/13 | Nevada Wolf Pack | 11:30PM (ESPNU)

Unread post by TruePoint »

The conference is saying whatever it needs to say to protect whatever and whoever it feels it needs to protect. What they’re saying could very well be true, but even if it is it’s just a coincidence. I give their statement zero weight.
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ramster
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Re: 11/13 | Nevada Wolf Pack | 11:30PM (ESPNU)

Unread post by ramster »

So they would lie?
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TruePoint
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Re: 11/13 | Nevada Wolf Pack | 11:30PM (ESPNU)

Unread post by TruePoint »

Uh, of course? I actually cannot imagine them (or any other similarly situated person or organization) not lying in this situation (assuming the facts are actually bad for them - as I said above, it is definitely possible that this statement is actually true, but they’d say the same thing whether it was or not if it benefitted them).
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