KeaneyBlue - The URI Basketball Forum

Classic from ESPN story on Pitino:

Grab a list of all universities in those heavyweight conferences, grab a map of the United States, and behold a coast-to-coast plague of criminality and fraudulence.

Anytime you can work "behold", "coast-to-coast plague" and "fraudulence" into the same sentence...you have my attention.

ramster wrote:Other possible names for coach...

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sp ... 707259001/

I guess it is still a premier job and obviously a lot of money and a great conference, but whoever takes the job has absolutely no idea how big of a mess they would be walking into. A guy like Thad Matta can more than likely wait a year and get a good job without the potential headaches.

ramster wrote:Other possible names for coach...

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sp ... 707259001/

I guess it is still a premier job and obviously a lot of money and a great conference, but whoever takes the job has absolutely no idea how big of a mess they would be walking into. A guy like Thad Matta can more than likely wait a year and get a good job without the potential headaches.

I agree with Blue Man 100%. The abuse of children at Penn St. is light years worse than any of this greasing recruits and assistant coaches with money. So how does that look if the NCAA give Louisville the death penalty when they did not give it to Penn State.

I will go even further to say that I really hope this FBI probe doesn't go after the players. These are 17-18 year old kids, many of whom come from backgrounds with not a lot of money. In what world are they going to say "no" to $10,000 or $20,000 ? Even if they want to say "no" I think there could be a lot pressure from their families to take the money. And I know the argument that they are being paid with an education and room and board. But are you telling me the guys that go to a school like Louisville and leave for the NBA after a year or two really consider the 1 or 2 years of BS classes they take as compensation for the BIG TIME money they are generating for people like Rick Pitino and the University of Louisville.

The fact that Adidas was paying Louisville $160 million should give you a fair idea of how much money these kids are generating for others.

You want to go after adult assistant coaches, head coaches and financial and sports apparel professionals, that is fine with me. But I have a problem with the FBI or even the fans going after the players. I don't want to call the players "victims" but my 17-18 year old self sure as shit would have taken the money.

Iggy1979 wrote:Pitino's top recruiter was at Indiana a couple of years ago ...

Is this just an observation or are you noting this as something we might need to be worried about?

Can we not rehash the Penn state case for the nth time?

It's become the Watergate of college sports in the sense it overshadows alot of interesting history and accomplishments. Like Watergate The "who knew what and when?" debates will go on for ages i suspect.

I just can''t believe litte Ricky finally got fired from Louisville. Honestly figured he was just untouchable after the whole "prostitutes and recruits" thing.

URIGONZO wrote:I agree with Blue Man 100%. The abuse of children at Penn St. is light years worse than any of this greasing recruits and assistant coaches with money. So how does that look if the NCAA give Louisville the death penalty when they did not give it to Penn State.

I will go even further to say that I really hope this FBI probe doesn't go after the players. These are 17-18 year old kids, many of whom come from backgrounds with not a lot of money. In what world are they going to say "no" to $10,000 or $20,000 ? Even if they want to say "no" I think there could be a lot pressure from their families to take the money. And I know the argument that they are being paid with an education and room and board. But are you telling me the guys that go to a school like Louisville and leave for the NBA after a year or two really consider the 1 or 2 years of BS classes they take as compensation for the BIG TIME money they are generating for people like Rick Pitino and the University of Louisville.

The fact that Adidas was paying Louisville $160 million should give you a fair idea of how much money these kids are generating for others.

You want to go after adult assistant coaches, head coaches and financial and sports apparel professionals, that is fine with me. But I have a problem with the FBI or even the fans going after the players. I don't want to call the players "victims" but my 17-18 year old self sure as shit would have taken the money.

I agree with all this and think it is a great post, but I wouldn't worry too much about the FBI going after these kids. For the most part, the kids are the subject of (rather than a party to) the transactions at issue here. I'm pretty sure the FBI gets that and doesn't have any interest in involving kids except possibly to the extent they have to apply a little pressure to them to get the testimony they need to prove their case.

Also the Louisville job may not be attractive if they get hit hard with NCAA sanctions

Louisville is like a nuclear site with radiation.

With that being said I would take the job tmrw for a lowly 750k/yr.

Blue Man wrote:

Surfri72 wrote:Penn State got hammered

Penn State and the community around their football team enabled and protected the rape and abuse of children for DECADES.DECADES.

Beaver Stadium should've been razed with their delusional fan base inside of it.

4 years of no playoffs? Whoopie. Sure that gave all of those children their souls back.

Baylor is pretty much a factory of rape and abuse. Crickets.

Sorry but if the death penalty doesn't come for programs promoting that - nevermind UNC manufacturing fake grades and classes - it's never coming again.

One. Hundo. Percent.

Round of applause to that hellhole in Waco too, for being so evil that Penn St fans can go "Hey, at least we're not Baylor"

Really interesting to read all the sites around the country trying to read the tea leaves.

This is like a witch hunt and there's actually witches.

Nasir little was listing unc Arizona Duke and Miami. The Miami stuff is thought to be tied to him. Meaning one or all of those other schools were biding. I feel like coach k has this samurai setup with all his acolytes ready to fall on a sword for him but, who else could be pulled into this?

The $$$ and investigative powers of the FBI. Bring in ppl. They point the finger and then the FBI takes it from there.

giovanni wrote:

ramster wrote:Other possible names for coach...

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sp ... 707259001/

I guess it is still a premier job and obviously a lot of money and a great conference, but whoever takes the job has absolutely no idea how big of a mess they would be walking into. A guy like Thad Matta can more than likely wait a year and get a good job without the potential headaches.

Perfect time to take the job...will be under a microscope, but assume worst case, with the freshest of slates and ...
pretty sure an ongoing dialog with the NCAA.
Program has obviously tremendous support and infrastructure. That's not easy to build/find/buy and it isn't going away soon.

Aside from a situation where they were not allowed to field a team at all, not sure I can see a true 'death penalty' scenario for the ville.

I will undercut the previously posted $750K and do it for a mere $700K.

NYGFan_Section208 wrote:

giovanni wrote:

ramster wrote:Other possible names for coach...

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sp ... 707259001/

I guess it is still a premier job and obviously a lot of money and a great conference, but whoever takes the job has absolutely no idea how big of a mess they would be walking into. A guy like Thad Matta can more than likely wait a year and get a good job without the potential headaches.

Perfect time to take the job...will be under a microscope, but assume worst case, with the freshest of slates and ...
pretty sure an ongoing dialog with the NCAA.
Program has obviously tremendous support and infrastructure. That's not easy to build/find/buy and it isn't going away soon.

Aside from a situation where they were not allowed to field a team at all, not sure I can see a true 'death penalty' scenario for the ville.

I will undercut the previously posted $750K and do it for a mere $700K.

Somebody goes lower and they may be making less than their players.

So...isn't that the way all pro teams work?

This is a GREAT article on it and pretty much sums up how I feel about it.

Screw the NCAA and everyone who thinks this doesn't go on all over the place.

https://deadspin.com/the-ncaa-finally-g ... 1818829862

I'm thinking this pretty much kills One and Done. The NBA is part of the problem. They should make the same rules that football and baseball have apply to basketball.

Uh oh, Alabama now?

How does his kill One and Done?

The Bball Hall of Fame needs to immediately start the process to kick Pitino's ass out!!!!!!

NYGFan_Section208 wrote:How does his kill One and Done?

You think agents and shoe companies are going to pay 4* players $150k to sign with their companies? They are fringe NBA draft players. That's alot of risk. 5* top 25 players are a good bet to go to the NBA and get contracts which would pay agents and shoe companies.

Killing one and done would kill the incentive for bribing high school seniors who are truly pro-ready. Perhaps a minor league system more akin to baseball's or hockey's would help, too.

There will still be a market for best available players.

but it wouldn't be of this magnitude. Then it would be boosters greasing a kids pocket. which we know goes on anyway.

well....next men up...not everyone can go pro...seems college 'might' have a year or so blip, but would wind up fine?

NYGFan_Section208 wrote:

giovanni wrote:

ramster wrote:Other possible names for coach...

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sp ... 707259001/

I guess it is still a premier job and obviously a lot of money and a great conference, but whoever takes the job has absolutely no idea how big of a mess they would be walking into. A guy like Thad Matta can more than likely wait a year and get a good job without the potential headaches.

Perfect time to take the job...will be under a microscope, but assume worst case, with the freshest of slates and ...
pretty sure an ongoing dialog with the NCAA.
Program has obviously tremendous support and infrastructure. That's not easy to build/find/buy and it isn't going away soon.

Aside from a situation where they were not allowed to field a team at all, not sure I can see a true 'death penalty' scenario for the ville.

I will undercut the previously posted $750K and do it for a mere $700K.

Great time to take the LVille job...just as it was a great time for Pitino to take the UK job after the mess that Eddie Sutton left. He took over UK with the program on 2 years probation. Whoever takes the UL job will have a few years of honeymoon. When does that happen in this age of college hoops?

Same reason Crean lasted a long time at IU after Kelvin Sampson left the program in shambles.

Nope, Louisville will have massive program sanctions if not a straight death penalty which means a new coach would have no postseason for his entire initial contract duration.

Doesn’t compare to a kelvin sampson like issue at Indiana.

Try to keep in mind that this is not the NCAA doing this.
It's the FBI.
I have a feeling they're just scratching the surface.
Sneaker companies have far too much influence on
college basketball.
Ever wonder why, after 3 straight NCAAs and an Elite 8,
there were so few candidates for the URI job in 1999?
Sonny Vaccaro put the word out that he wanted his boy,
Jerry D to get the job.
Again, as far as the NCAA, we've been waiting for them to
finally come out on the UNC scandal.
How many years has it been?
Does anyone really think the NCAA would have outed all these
things that the FBI is coming up with, even if they'd
known of it?
Same with Penn State, which was again, law enforcement that
drove the NCAA to act.
The NCAA would sit on that and the Baylor situation, if outside
forces hadn't brought it to light.

rodfromcranston wrote:Try to keep in mind that this is not the NCAA doing this.
It's the FBI.
I have a feeling they're just scratching the surface.
Sneaker companies have far too much influence on
college basketball.
Ever wonder why, after 3 straight NCAAs and an Elite 8,
there were so few candidates for the URI job in 1999?
Sonny Vaccaro put the word out that he wanted his boy,
Jerry D to get the job.
Again, as far as the NCAA, we've been waiting for them to
finally come out on the UNC scandal.
How many years has it been?
Does anyone really think the NCAA would have outed all these
things that the FBI is coming up with, even if they'd
known of it?
Same with Penn State, which was again, law enforcement that
drove the NCAA to act.
The NCAA would sit on that and the Baylor situation, if outside
forces hadn't brought it to light.

The FBI only arrests the little fish to get at the big ones -- they're after head coaches, ADs and college C-suite types, as well as the shoe companies and their pimps.

The NCAA has become a largely toothless organization....at least when it comes to the big boys.....

It's a brave new world, now.....

KMAC weighs in with quotes from Hurley, Cooley and O'Shea.
http://www.providencejournal.com/sports ... ng-to-none

Pitino and others have been put on admin leave and not fired, until the proof that they were involved comes out.....or else the lawsuits will be flyin'

and there's no doubt in my mind they're guilty.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... corruption

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... s-programs

Couple of articles from ESPN breaking down what has happened so far and what could possibly be coming down the road.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... int-source

Apparently, Pitino is 'Coach 2' in the federal complaint, which basically ends any chance that he ever coaches college basketball again and will probably put more pressure on Louisville to get hammered by the NCAA

That article mentions his son, coach at Minnesota. I wonder if he's under investigation, tol.

Rhody74 wrote:That article mentions his son, coach at Minnesota. I wonder if he's under investigation, tol.

If they are, that's a school were recruiting some of the same players we were. Both Dupree McBrayer and Ahmad Gilbert are sophomores on the current Gophers roster.

rodfromcranston wrote:Try to keep in mind that this is not the NCAA doing this.
It's the FBI.
I have a feeling they're just scratching the surface.
Sneaker companies have far too much influence on
college basketball.
Ever wonder why, after 3 straight NCAAs and an Elite 8,
there were so few candidates for the URI job in 1999?
Sonny Vaccaro put the word out that he wanted his boy,
Jerry D to get the job.
Again, as far as the NCAA, we've been waiting for them to
finally come out on the UNC scandal.
How many years has it been?
Does anyone really think the NCAA would have outed all these
things that the FBI is coming up with, even if they'd
known of it?
Same with Penn State, which was again, law enforcement that
drove the NCAA to act.
The NCAA would sit on that and the Baylor situation, if outside
forces hadn't brought it to light.

100%. The NCAA is a fraud organization. It just does what is best for it's bottom line.

It's downright pathetic that our tax dollars are being wasted to do what the NCAA is supposed to do.

That said, this brings the "paying student athletes what they're worth" argument back to the front. It's obvious this black market isn't working/is only benefitting the privileged few, and leaving young kids at the mercy of "pimps" as someone else said. For the NBA talents, sure it works out in the end - but for the vast majority of good kids who won't have a big basketball career, their best interests are not put forward in the recruiting process. If a kid needs to be in an environment with someone like Dan Hurley - high character, family atmosphere, etc - but we're not paying? Well then that kid gets shopped to somewhere else and who knows what happens to him.

At least if this sort of thing were regulated (like weed and prostitution) it would create a fair and free market without a nefarious, evil side of things.

Honestly though, the NCAA can't really crack down too hard - because what's to stop the power 5 from opting out of their respective conferences and starting their own organization for football?

Blue Man wrote:

rodfromcranston wrote:Try to keep in mind that this is not the NCAA doing this.
It's the FBI.
I have a feeling they're just scratching the surface.
Sneaker companies have far too much influence on
college basketball.
Ever wonder why, after 3 straight NCAAs and an Elite 8,
there were so few candidates for the URI job in 1999?
Sonny Vaccaro put the word out that he wanted his boy,
Jerry D to get the job.
Again, as far as the NCAA, we've been waiting for them to
finally come out on the UNC scandal.
How many years has it been?
Does anyone really think the NCAA would have outed all these
things that the FBI is coming up with, even if they'd
known of it?
Same with Penn State, which was again, law enforcement that
drove the NCAA to act.
The NCAA would sit on that and the Baylor situation, if outside
forces hadn't brought it to light.

100%. The NCAA is a fraud organization. It just does what is best for it's bottom line.

It's downright pathetic that our tax dollars are being wasted to do what the NCAA is supposed to do.

That said, this brings the "paying student athletes what they're worth" argument back to the front. It's obvious this black market isn't working/is only benefitting the privileged few, and leaving young kids at the mercy of "pimps" as someone else said. For the NBA talents, sure it works out in the end - but for the vast majority of good kids who won't have a big basketball career, their best interests are not put forward in the recruiting process. If a kid needs to be in an environment with someone like Dan Hurley - high character, family atmosphere, etc - but we're not paying? Well then that kid gets shopped to somewhere else and who knows what happens to him.

At least if this sort of thing were regulated (like weed and prostitution) it would create a fair and free market without a nefarious, evil side of things.

Honestly though, the NCAA can't really crack down too hard - because what's to stop the power 5 from opting out of their respective conferences and starting their own organization for football?

money, all the TV deals are with the conferences. The lone exception being Texas and the Longhorns Network. As much as they dont want to admit it, the big P5 schools are as dependent on the NCAA as the NCAA is on them.

Also a lot of the $$ from those programs come from NCAA sources, and a lot of the expenses are picked up by the conferences/NCAA. scholarships, travel, promo, etc will all need new sources of funding.

RhowdyRam02 wrote:Uh oh, Alabama now?

http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/ ... in-sexton/

Following up on Bama, the investigation is centered around top-10 recruit Collin Sexton. If he is legitimately tied to the investigation and ruled ineligible, this would very much weaken that Alabama team.

Jeff Goodman‏Verified account @GoodmanESPN · 3m3 minutes ago
Oklahoma State University announced assistant basketball coach Lamont Evans has been terminated for cause.

This could be a good resource over the next weeks and months, depending on how this story goes from here (but I thinks it's pretty interesting even apart from this scandal):

https://herosports.com/college-basketba ... rmour-a7a7

TruePoint wrote:This could be a good resource over the next weeks and months, depending on how this story goes from here (but I thinks it's pretty interesting even apart from this scandal):

https://herosports.com/college-basketba ... rmour-a7a7

This list is pointless and you’re essentially saying that anyone who is sponsored has been involved... not a good look...

I think TP was referring to this part of the article:
Seven schools were referred to in the press conference as University-1 through University-7. Those schools are as follows:
University-1: Auburn
University-2: South Carolina
University-3: Oklahoma State
University-4: Arizona
University-5: USC
University-6: Louisville
University-7: Miami

Louisville and Miami are sponsored by Adidas; Auburn and South Carolina are sponsored by Under Armour; and USC, Oklahoma State, and Arizona are sponsored by Nike.

Two of the people arrested yesterday were Adidas director of global sports marketing James Gatto and former head of Nike's Elite Youth Basketball League Merl Code.

Wait until the IRS comes to some of these parents who accepted cash for their kid to go to some school.....and they ask if that money was declared on income tax returns.....and it wasn't .... and they charge income tax fraud and evasion....and these parents will start singing to the feds to escape jail time....boom

Also have to think that Donovan Mitchell who chose Louisville as a last minute decision over other suitors who had been recruiting him for much longer and harder may get some scrutiny..

NorthernRamFan wrote:

TruePoint wrote:This could be a good resource over the next weeks and months, depending on how this story goes from here (but I thinks it's pretty interesting even apart from this scandal):

https://herosports.com/college-basketba ... rmour-a7a7

This list is pointless and you’re essentially saying that anyone who is sponsored has been involved... not a good look...

Uhh...all due respect, but what the hell are you talking about, exactly? Not only did I say no such thing, I'm fascinated by the idea that a person have interpreted what I said in that way.

Not so much your post, but the author of the article... it shouldn’t matter who sponsors what schools but now it apparently does because Adidas and possibly others were dirty

Ah ok. Sorry, I thought you were saying my post was implying all these schools were involved in the kind of shenanigans that was recently exposed with adidas. That's obviously not what I think and it wasn't what I was trying to imply. The reason I posted it is because I do think it is kind of interesting to know which schools are aligned with which apparel company. Most fans know the major schools and their school, I think, but I'd never really seen a comprehensive list. And I think understanding these alliances helps lock in a piece of the college basketball landscape, especially with regards to recruiting. As far as this knowledge being related to understanding this emerging scandal, it isn't that every school is implicated, but you can be a bit more of an informed reader on the topic as new information and allegations come to light if you know where the schools and the show companies line up with respect to one another.

I hope some or all of those head coaches at those schools get fired also. Ultimately they are responsible for their program so they should take the fall

Yes, reef. Each head coach should be fired for any assistant coach confirmed to be a part of this. It's the only way to establish a very real deterrent that hurts the big head coaches. Otherwise, the reward will outweigh the risk and they will keep hiring slimy assistants.