KeaneyBlue - The URI Basketball Forum

“Tougher competition in teams like VCU, Dayton, and Rhode Island provides the Shockers with a chance to boost conference strength of schedule.”

http://www.a10talk.com/wichita-state-wo ... lantic-10/

WSU to the A10 is just common sense. Surprised it hasn't happened already.
Now just kick Duquesne out, and you've improved the conference significantly.

Bring them aboard!
I'd kick Fordham out over Duquesne

they aren't really close to anyone in the conference, it's still a 7 hour drive beyond SLU (the same as us to Richmond)

Obviously from a basketball perspective it would be great to have them

I think this makes sense if you went to a 16 team conference. Take them and Valpo or Northern Iowa and create an East/West divisions with 8 teams in them each. If Umass leaves due to football, Siena would be the obvious replacement there.

860_rhody wrote:WSU to the A10 is just common sense.

Not if you think geography is an important aspect of a conference. URI is already an outlier and it has only gotten worse with nearly every add the league has ever made.

Conferences are so spread out these days (see the AAC, aka "The Big Everywhere")....not sure geography matters much any more with the exception of some P5 and a few handfuls of regional rivalries, does it?

RF1 wrote:

860_rhody wrote:WSU to the A10 is just common sense.

Not if you think geography is an important aspect of a conference. URI is already an outlier and it has only gotten worse with nearly every add the league has ever made.

It's not an important aspect. The ACC has BC and Miami, and the AAC has UCONN and SMU/Houston/Tulsa. It's about bids to the NCAA tournament.
BTW how can URI be a geographical outlier? If we are a geographical outlier, then do is UMass, Fordham, La Salle, and St. Joseph's. How can nearly half the conference be a geographical outlier?

860_rhody wrote:

RF1 wrote:

860_rhody wrote:WSU to the A10 is just common sense.

Not if you think geography is an important aspect of a conference. URI is already an outlier and it has only gotten worse with nearly every add the league has ever made.

It's not an important aspect. The ACC has BC and Miami, and the AAC has UCONN and SMU/Houston/Tulsa. It's about bids to the NCAA tournament.
BTW how can URI be a geographical outlier? If we are a geographical outlier, then do is UMass, Fordham, La Salle, and St. Joseph's. How can nearly half the conference be a geographical outlier?

It may not be important for the leagues that rake in millions of dollars per team which can cover travel expenses for ALL teams. It is for a league like the A-10.

As for being an outlier in the A-10 - URI is the most eastern team. Nearly every new member has come from outside the league's original footprint. It has been furher south and west. If UMass were to leave, URI would be the only New England school. There would however be TWO teams just in RICHMOND and TWO teams just in Philadelphia.

RF1, how could there be a team east of URI? We could add the University of the Azores? Nova Scotia State?

Northeastern, Maine and UNH are all east of us.

RhowdyRam02 wrote:Northeastern, Maine and UNH are all east of us.

Do you want to add any of those teams? I'd much rather add a Wright State.

I wouldn't mind adding Northeastern or Boston University, especially when UMass leaves. I just threw three names out, but now that you asked the question, I think BU would be a better fit then Northeastern due to Agganis Arena. I think a large school in Boston could be successful in the A10 and I certainly don't want Fordham to be considered our geographic rival. I'd rather roll the dice on Northeastern or BU being able to improve and having some kind of New England rival.

They have no fan bases....but I like the idea of Boston University and/or Northeastern....very good academic schools in a major East Coast city....even though Boston fans are blase about college sports...I know I am in the minority on this....

The college sports landscape is changing (and has been for quite some time). It's time to start thinking bigger then being the next NEC or something similar. If URI can't, or isn't willing, to keep up with these changes and make the investments needed to compete in a conference that includes schools outside our region then that is on us and not up to the A10 to try and hold itself back for anybody.

The amount of money brought in by a single NCAA tourney credit should completely offset the added travel expenses for all of the teams in a league.

If the A10 was adding teams only based on who was close by you wouldn't have a conference that already has a footprint that covers a third of the country.

CT Rhody wrote:I think this makes sense if you went to a 16 team conference. Take them and Valpo or Northern Iowa and create an East/West divisions with 8 teams in them each. If Umass leaves due to football, Siena would be the obvious replacement there.

I think that's the way to look at it.
You'd probably play everyone in your division (7), everyone in the other division (7), and then home/home 4 teams from your division.
If you think about it that way, travel expense should not increase drastically.
And in sports with a more restrictive budget, just have them play STL and Wichita in a "Western swing."
You'd go to Wichita once every 2 years.
And the conference is better for it.

Yea, only way for the A10 to become something more is to attract teams like Wichita State. Otherwise good teams will leave if they see other opportunities, like Butler, Temple, Xavier ect. I agree there's nothing "Atlantic" about them but I would still rather have them than BU or Maine.

From what I've recently read, Wichita State is seriously researching restoring their football program to move up to FBS football. They recently commissioned a study to determine the costs and timing of such a move.

From a basketball standpoint I don't think for the near term they are looking to leave the Missouri Valley. They're the face of the league and have flourished there. Similarl to Gonzaga in the West Coast Conference, WSU is the bell cow of the Valley.

If the A10 loses UMASS to the AAC as a trickle down result of Big XII expansion and it considers adding a replacement I think the league will think bigger than BU, Northeastern or Siena, none of whom do anything for the image or strength of the league.

Valparaiso is a name often mentioned in A10 expansion. A name to remember may be Belmont University in Nashville, TN. Similar to Davidson in size and academic mission, they've made 8 NCAA appearances in the past decade.

I like Siena - huge arena, local, and solid fan support. If the A10 could make better negotiations with the ACC and get the Barclays back, then their fans will travel well, much like the Bonnies.

With a good team, we forget that we haven't been to the NCAAs this century, yet we talk about throwing others out of the conference. There are better flight connections to NYC and Pittsburgh than to PVD. At least we are not SBU.

My basketball juices are flowing a bit here with September just around the corner, so I'll bite.

Serious question -- how would joining the Atlantic 10 benefit Wichita State? Obviously it would help the conference from a basketball perspective, but I'd like to hear what you think the benefits would be for the Shockers. I'll be intrigued to read your thoughts on the matter. Hope everyone has enjoyed the summer.

Bill Koch wrote:My basketball juices are flowing a bit here with September just around the corner, so I'll bite.

Serious question -- how would joining the Atlantic 10 benefit Wichita State? Obviously it would help the conference from a basketball perspective, but I'd like to hear what you think the benefits would be for the Shockers. I'll be intrigued to read your thoughts on the matter. Hope everyone has enjoyed the summer.

The writer of the article seems to really want this to happen and calls the A10 "the perfect fit".

Major deterrent is the distance. 800 miles and an 11 hour drive from Dayton. Too far away.
WSU is going the football direction - not going to be basketball only.
A10 is the 7th ranked conference but I don't see that worth the travel for WSU.

No need to kick out any school to make room because A10 will need to add a team soon. UCONN will move from the AAC as will others so that opens up a spot for UMASS. That is the slot the A10 will next need to replenish.

Bill Koch wrote:My basketball juices are flowing a bit here with September just around the corner, so I'll bite..

Opening night is three months from today. Do you think we're close to hearing the final out of conference schedule?

Bill Koch wrote:My basketball juices are flowing a bit here with September just around the corner, so I'll bite.

Serious question -- how would joining the Atlantic 10 benefit Wichita State? Obviously it would help the conference from a basketball perspective, but I'd like to hear what you think the benefits would be for the Shockers. I'll be intrigued to read your thoughts on the matter. Hope everyone has enjoyed the summer.

What other perspectives/benefits are there? It's all about tournament bids.
A10>MVC.
A10+WSU>A10.

RhowdyRam02 wrote:

Bill Koch wrote:My basketball juices are flowing a bit here with September just around the corner, so I'll bite..

Opening night is three months from today. Do you think we're close to hearing the final out of conference schedule?

Yes,
Last year's A10 schedule was published on August 27th

The A-10 needs to lead in innovation, specifically with expansion and scheduling innovation. With the Big East Fox's money, and the repeated assessment of some in the media that draws the Mid major line at the A-10 and down, we can't afford to sit idle and act content with where we are.

860_rhody wrote:

Bill Koch wrote:My basketball juices are flowing a bit here with September just around the corner, so I'll bite.

Serious question -- how would joining the Atlantic 10 benefit Wichita State? Obviously it would help the conference from a basketball perspective, but I'd like to hear what you think the benefits would be for the Shockers. I'll be intrigued to read your thoughts on the matter. Hope everyone has enjoyed the summer.

What other perspectives/benefits are there? It's all about tournament bids.
A10>MVC.
A10+WSU>A10.

If it's all about tournament bids then they why not stay where they are? They have danced the last 5 years 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016.. Before that 2006 and before that 1988. So if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Bill Koch wrote:My basketball juices are flowing a bit here with September just around the corner, so I'll bite.

Serious question -- how would joining the Atlantic 10 benefit Wichita State? Obviously it would help the conference from a basketball perspective, but I'd like to hear what you think the benefits would be for the Shockers. I'll be intrigued to read your thoughts on the matter. Hope everyone has enjoyed the summer.

Do you think joining the A10 has been good for VCU? I see it being similar. Obviously the situations on the whole are different because of the distance, but from a basketball standpoint I think it's pretty similar.

CT Rhody wrote:The A-10 needs to lead in innovation, specifically with expansion and scheduling innovation. With the Big East Fox's money, and the repeated assessment of some in the media that draws the Mid major line at the A-10 and down, we can't afford to sit idle and act content with where we are.

Not content for sure, would be great for the A10 to get WSU but little in it for them being so very far away, been to dance last 5 years.
WSU just does not seem to fit very well in the A10 especially since they will be going the football route.

ramster wrote:

860_rhody wrote:

Bill Koch wrote:My basketball juices are flowing a bit here with September just around the corner, so I'll bite.

Serious question -- how would joining the Atlantic 10 benefit Wichita State? Obviously it would help the conference from a basketball perspective, but I'd like to hear what you think the benefits would be for the Shockers. I'll be intrigued to read your thoughts on the matter. Hope everyone has enjoyed the summer.

What other perspectives/benefits are there? It's all about tournament bids.
A10>MVC.
A10+WSU>A10.

If it's all about tournament bids then they why not stay where they are? They have danced the last 5 years 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016.. Before that 2006 and before that 1988. So if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Right - for the conference, it's all about tournament bids. WSU would make the tournament in any conference, but their RPI would improve in the A10, playing UD, VCU, URI etc.. Win-win.

A few things to consider about Wichita State's basketball program:
-- Five straight NCAA bids. No. 1 seed in 2013-14. Eight wins in the field of 64 and 10 overall in the last four seasons, including the Final Four in 2013. Michigan State, Wisconsin and Duke have similar win totals over the last four NCAA Tournaments.
-- Last coach (Mark Turgeon) was hired by Texas A&M (then a Big XII job). Current coach (Gregg Marshall) makes $3.3 million per season and was Alabama's first choice before Avery Johnson (an SEC job). Private charters for all games, minimum four private charters for recruiting per year. Assistant coaches salary pool exceeds $600K. Very attractive position regardless of conference
-- Incoming freshman class includes a four-star player, a three-star player and two fringe three-star players. Already recruiting at a high level
-- Financially backed by the billionaire Koch brothers. Fan base similar to Dayton, averaging more than 10K per game while playing in an on-campus arena

Where can membership in the Atlantic 10 help Wichita State improve its program? What clear and immediate advantage would the Atlantic 10 offer that currently isn't on hand in the Missouri Valley?

Yes yes yes to the Shockers !!

Wichita State just screams ATLANTIC-10. (NOT)

Perhaps the league should start talks with Hawaii.

I did not mandate teams east of Kingston. I however would like a cohesive footprint without large gaps of space between schools. It would be nice to build geographic rivalries and allow fans to attend a few away league games. I fear URI eventually being in a league with no UMASS where Rhody has very little in common with other members and is geographically isolated. I don't want URI student athletes in the non revenue sports spending all their time on the road with bad low cost travel arrangements (which would happen for the sports other than hoops).

Bill Koch wrote:A few things to consider about Wichita State's basketball program:
-- Five straight NCAA bids. No. 1 seed in 2013-14. Eight wins in the field of 64 and 10 overall in the last four seasons, including the Final Four in 2013. Michigan State, Wisconsin and Duke have similar win totals over the last four NCAA Tournaments.
-- Last coach (Mark Turgeon) was hired by Texas A&M (then a Big XII job). Current coach (Gregg Marshall) makes $3.3 million per season and was Alabama's first choice before Avery Johnson (an SEC job). Private charters for all games, minimum four private charters for recruiting per year. Assistant coaches salary pool exceeds $600K. Very attractive position regardless of conference
-- Incoming freshman class includes a four-star player, a three-star player and two fringe three-star players. Already recruiting at a high level
-- Financially backed by the billionaire Koch brothers. Fan base similar to Dayton, averaging more than 10K per game while playing in an on-campus arena

Where can membership in the Atlantic 10 help Wichita State improve its program? What clear and immediate advantage would the Atlantic 10 offer that currently isn't on hand in the Missouri Valley?

It's great to see Bill Koch posting on this site. He is a great journalist and we are extremely lucky to have him covering URI for us. His dedication to his craft is second to none.

I'll come at it from a different perspective since I clearly don't think your perspective is wrong. The question isn't whether Wichita State needs the A-10, since that is a definite no based on past history. The question is can the A-10 provide a better value platform then the MVC. Xavier didn't need the Big East, it was helped by the Big East due to the infusion of additional revenue that it brought to the table. The A-10 doesn't have that specific luxury but it can still offer other tangible benefits.

1. A-10 is a better conference at the top and middle then the MVC.
2. The A-10 is in fertile recruiting area's on the east coast which would benefit WS & Northern Iowa if they made the jump with them
3. With those two schools added, the A-10 clearly separates itself if it hasn't already done so right behind the power 5 conferences.
4. It wouldn't always take a MVC conference win or a 30-2 season to make the NCAA tournament if it moved to the A-10, that would increase the margin of error allowed throughout the season.
5. The A-10 would have increased leverage in it's next TV deal, potentially significantly increasing it's value proposition

This is where the A-10 needs to stay creative and innovative, I'll propose one scheduling solution I believe would increase league attention and help it's cause with additional NCAA bids on another thread shortly but it needs to review it's mission statement. If it is truly a basketball centric conference as it states, it needs to proportionally distribute TV revenues to the schools that are actively putting the necessary resources into their programs. If the Fordham's, George Masons, Duquesne's, LaSalle's, and I'll even through in the URI's of the world don't or can't allocate enough resources to stay competitive at an elite level, then maybe another conference might be a better fit for those schools. The A-10 needs to stay active and energized on their focus to become and then stay at the power conference level.

ramster wrote:

RhowdyRam02 wrote:

Bill Koch wrote:My basketball juices are flowing a bit here with September just around the corner, so I'll bite..

Opening night is three months from today. Do you think we're close to hearing the final out of conference schedule?

Yes,
Last year's A10 schedule was published on August 27th

That was my backhanded way of asking if he had any rumors for the out of conference schedule. Last year they announced their non conference schedule July 21st but added the Iona game September 15th, so we should be hearing something any day now.

The fans on Wichita State fans board are in favor of moving to the A-10 if invited. Most think the AAC would be a better fit geography wise but they want out of the MVC badly. Grabbing WS and Northern Iowa if they would be willing would be a steal for the A-10.

I think fans are a bad sample size because if you were in a bad conference, wouldn't you want to move to somewhere where you might get 3-4 tourney teams to visit your venue during conference play and less 200+ programs?

That said, Wichita St has been a great program but has also ridden the wave of a very strong core of players when you think about Baker and Van Vleet. They may very well continue their run of dominance in the MVC but even last year they didn't win their conference and barely made the tourney, they had to play in with an 18-3 conference record. They were not great OOC but injuries were a reason for that.

Call me crazy but I would like to see an A10 team in the Boston market.....BU or Northeastern. Probably Northeastern as they tend to put a better club on the floor at least recently. Both are huge hockey schools tho, would an A10 invite bump up alumni and student interest enough to pack the small venue?

Pie in the sky maybe.....

I like Wichita State and N Iowa as a good call as well.....

hrstrat57 wrote:Call me crazy but I would like to see an A10 team in the Boston market.....BU or Northeastern. Probably Northeastern as they tend to put a better club on the floor at least recently. Both are huge hockey schools tho, would an A10 invite bump up alumni and student interest enough to pack the small venue?

Pie in the sky maybe.....

I like Wichita State and N Iowa as a good call as well.....

You're crazy. Northeastern is barely in the top half of the CAA. William & Mary is consistently better than them, and we bought them out. Why add a team to yor conference that half the conference could otherwise buy out?
It's too bad there's no Boston CBB team - maybe if BC wants to win instead of just cash in from Duke and UVA, they could be an OK fit in the A10.

I disagree Northeastern has been better than William and Mary in recent years and all time. They went to the dance a couple years ago and William and Mary has never been.

PeterRamTime wrote:I disagree Northeastern has been better than William and Mary in recent years and all time. They went to the dance a couple years ago and William and Mary has never been.

NU made the dance as a 3 seed and W&M was the #1 seed in the CAA tournament.

If neither Northeastern or W&M can consistently sit at the top of a weak CAA, what makes either great candidates for the A10? When you look at recent additions:

5 years before (average):
VCU - 26-9 (13-5), 3 tournament appearances (5-3)
Butler - 28-8 (15-3), 4 tournament appearances (11-4)
George Mason - 22-12 (13-5), 1 tournament appearance (1-1)
Davidson - 21-12 (14-4), 2 tournament apperances (0-2)

GM and Davidson had good not great 5 year cycles, but if you look a little further on both programs you have the Steph Curry era at Davidson and the Final Four run at George Mason which stand out. That doesn't exist with Northeastern or William & Mary. Wichita St. definitely fits that mold as a team whose dominated a mid-tier conference who should be able to transition. The fact that no school can stand out in a pretty weak CAA makes it hard to fathom either as realistic basketball candidates for the A10. The average KenPom for the best regular season team in the CAA has been 117 since VCU left in 2012 and haven't had a program come close to sniffing an at-large bid in that time.

I'm curious, what do people think would happen to the perception of the A-10 if they dropped Fordham, Duquesne, and George Mason and added Wichita State to move to 12 teams? Where would this league be compared to the Big East for example?

Rhode Island
Dayton
VCU
Wichita State
Richmond
GW
Umass
St Louis
Davidson
St Bonaventure
Lasalle
St Joe's

Could the A-10 drop schools? If so how?
I'm sure this question has been asked and answered, but still I can't remember.
Also, I think dropping GMU could be a mistake. Maybe drop LaSalle instead of them. But IDK.

CT Rhody wrote:I'm curious, what do people think would happen to the perception of the A-10 if they dropped Fordham, Duquesne, and George Mason and added Wichita State to move to 12 teams? Where would this league be compared to the Big East for example?

Rhode Island
Dayton
VCU
Wichita State
Richmond
GW
Umass
St Louis
Davidson
St Bonaventure
Lasalle
St Joe's

Obviously it would be a stronger league, no cupcakes. More premier games... more viewers, more competition...more viewers,higher conference RPI... more attention, more ncaa bids...higher reputation overall. That's in a perfect world though.

PeterRamTime wrote:Could the A-10 drop schools? If so how?
I'm sure this question has been asked and answered, but still I can't remember.
Also, I think dropping GMU could be a mistake. Maybe drop LaSalle instead of them. But IDK.

The conference prob wouldn't drop any schools but it's an interesting offseason question for fans to banter about. Lasalle or GM, take a pick really.

Rhodymob05 wrote:

CT Rhody wrote:I'm curious, what do people think would happen to the perception of the A-10 if they dropped Fordham, Duquesne, and George Mason and added Wichita State to move to 12 teams? Where would this league be compared to the Big East for example?

Rhode Island
Dayton
VCU
Wichita State
Richmond
GW
Umass
St Louis
Davidson
St Bonaventure
Lasalle
St Joe's

Obviously it would be a stronger league, no cupcakes. More premier games... more viewers, more competition...more viewers,higher conference RPI... more attention, more ncaa bids...higher reputation overall. That's in a perfect world though.

Where would you stack it vs the Big Least conference?

CT Rhody wrote:

Rhodymob05 wrote:

CT Rhody wrote:I'm curious, what do people think would happen to the perception of the A-10 if they dropped Fordham, Duquesne, and George Mason and added Wichita State to move to 12 teams? Where would this league be compared to the Big East for example?

Rhode Island
Dayton
VCU
Wichita State
Richmond
GW
Umass
St Louis
Davidson
St Bonaventure
Lasalle
St Joe's

Obviously it would be a stronger league, no cupcakes. More premier games... more viewers, more competition...more viewers,higher conference RPI... more attention, more ncaa bids...higher reputation overall. That's in a perfect world though.

Where would you stack it vs the Big Least conference?

The Big East still has more top quality teams like Vill, Xavier, Butler. You could say that if most A10 teams are having a strong season, that it could be close to the Big East since some of their teams are not as relevant right now, like St. Johns, Marquette. Overall the gap would definitely tighten.

I would agree. It's a fun conversation piece for sure. If you now exclude St Bona (In the middle of nowhere and historically not strong, and Lasalle which has a limited fan base, terrible attendance numbers and a small arena) to then get the conference to 10 teams, I think the conference as a whole would be viewed as a high major conference.

Do people agree with that assessment? This conference would especially be tough next year with Umass's top recruiting class being sophomores, St Louis much improved next year and St Joe's a year recovered from their heavy losses.

Rhode Island
Dayton
VCU
Wichita State
Richmond
GW
Umass
St Louis
Davidson
St Joe's