KeaneyBlue - The URI Basketball Forum

I am a Friar fan and alumnus, but also want to see URI do well. Perhaps some people on this board can help me with something about which I've wondered for years. Why doesn't URI drop football and reinvest the money into the basketball program (among others)? It seems difficult to believe they can be relevant in football, with fewer scholarships and a very small recruiting base. They could increase spending in basketball on recruiting, practice facility upgrades, recruiting again, coaches salaries,etc. This would probably make them a top program in very good conference on a regular basis, and keep a good coach longer.

They could also use the extra resources to upgrade hockey to Division One, and with the local talent, they could quickly compete in, say, the Atlantic Conference, and perhaps eventually upgrade to the ECAC or Hockey East.

These moves would seem to provide more benefits to the school than the football program. Am I missing something? Thanks.

you just kicked a pretty big hornet nest amongst Rhody supporters. Especially the hockey teams wasting away at club level.

There's no reason why both hockey teams (men and women) couldn't step in and compete in the Hockey East (after accounting for the usual adjustment period).

And yes, for many the Football program is an embarrassment and a drain on the Athletics Department.

As far as football goes, I think there is a way forward where it could be successful. There are schools with younger football programs than ours and light years ahead of where we are at. I think there just needs to be a sufficient plan on how to get there. With that being said, I think we should have a D1 hockey program in addition to the football. From talking with folks who are somewhat familiar with the athletic budget, they seem to think we could do both. Unless I see something that says the otherwise that's how I feel about it myself.

Since there are a lot more quality hockey and basketball players in New England than football, URI can get a lot more bang for the buck with those sports. They could even add scholarships to other sports to assist them.

Football just seems like a black hole financially unless you are one of the Oklahomas, Alabamas, or Ohio States of the world.

This discussion is already ongoing in the URI Athletics area of our site.

We do not need another similar thread in this basketball area.

For the record, our crappy football program draws 2-3x bigger crowds than your national championship hockey team....so there's that

For the record, when you go by a per season basis as opposed to a per game basis, hockey programs draw better then our football program.

Yep I WANT NCAA HOCKEY !!!!!

Down year for the men's club team oddly enough worst year in a long time....

Yeah, it's a tough sell this year specifically when the men's team has only won 1/3 of their games. Women's team tearing it up though.

bigappleram wrote:For the record, our crappy football program draws 2-3x bigger crowds than your national championship hockey team....so there's that

I don't recall mentioning Providence's national championship hockey team, and since there was nothing rude or derogatory toward URI in my question, I don't understand your attitude. My point was and is that the path to success for URI is much clearer in basketball and hockey an FCS football.

For the person who mentioned another thread about this, I apologize, as this is the only board I read. I thought it was appropriate because I am relating it to success in basketball. How do I find the other thread, as I am interested in the viewpoint of URI fans.

The path is not clear in hockey. Which league would we compete in? Atlantic Hockey won't excite anyone and we do not have an adequate facility for Hockey East. Besides, how do we know we could even get an invite to HE? Some programs often don't want another team in their market to be in the same league. What is the guarantee that URI would even be successful in D1 hockey? UMass and UConn have had it for years and neither has done much. We hear how RI is a hockey recruiting hotbed, but Brown doesn't do very well and neither did PC for nearly 20 years until Leaman was recently hired. URI never seems to adequately fund any of its athletic programs. I can easily see just trading a crappy football program in for a crappy hockey program. What would that accomplish? Besides, the hoops and hockey schedules overlap with one another and would compete at the same time for the limited fan support that URI has.

As mentioned in another thread, our one win football team still averaged 4,753 which is not all that far off from the men's basketball average. Football could succeed if only the university gave it the necessary support.

RF1 wrote:As mentioned in another thread, our one win football team still averaged 4,753 which is not all that far off from the men's basketball average. Football could succeed if only the university gave it the necessary support.

Football has (roughly) five home games a year, all of which are on Saturdays. It makes an apples-to-apples comparison on attendance not especially easy to do.

And even if you want to do one, it's current status at or near the basketball average attendance is not a data point in its favor. 1) The basketball total / gross attendance is obviously going to be bigger, because they play a lot more games at home. 2) At pretty much every other school of prominence, the average game attendance for football far exceeds basketball, because you have far less opportunity to get to a game. If URI basketball decided to play just five home games next year, yeah, they could probably sell out the Ryan Center for each one.

RF1 wrote:Besides, the hoops and hockey schedules overlap with one another and would compete at the same time for the limited fan support that URI has.

The calendar overlaps, but the fan bases don't. Hockey people don't care about basketball for the most part and vice versa.

To Bigsnoop

The vast majority of posters here dislike the friars intensely.....so any chance we get to whack the friars we take....you will see that as your explore all the sub-topics here....it can be frustrating.....

Almost as frustrating as when I go the friars scout board and put up with what your compadres there write about the University of Rhode Island....

I would attend both as I do now.

Too bad the club team is down at the moment - they would get wacked in Atlantic or ECAC at the moment. I think they recently beat a weak SNU D 2 NCAA team however.

Looking ahead I believe ECAC is a goal. Highly doubt Providence would allow URI entry into Hockey East. UMass would likely fight it too.

The entire lower tier of the RC comes out. There is no reason the building could not be piped for hockey. Would not be necessary for Atlantic hockey as the north wall of the Boss can be blown out to easily double the seating. The building was designed with this in mind. The locker rooms and additional features of Boss are world class.

Over 10 years of excellence in D1 club including a national championship too bad the team is down at the moment.

I haven't seen the womens club team this year but they appear ready to jump now....

Snoop we have had a slew of hockey threads, suggest you read through them this horse is battered from being beaten so often. They are easy to find. There is also an interesting twitter feed URI NCAA hockey now.....

RhowdyRam02 wrote:

RF1 wrote:Besides, the hoops and hockey schedules overlap with one another and would compete at the same time for the limited fan support that URI has.

The calendar overlaps, but the fan bases don't. Hockey people don't care about basketball for the most part and vice versa.

It is my belief that a significant number of URI fans at games also go to the events of other URI sports programs. My assumption is that many of the hoops attendees, especially the older retired alums, likely go to the football games as well.

If I am wrong and your premise is correct, where then do all the D1 hockey fans come from? Is the large fanbase necessary for D1 hockey going to suddenly materialize out of thin air?

hrstrat57 wrote: The entire lower tier of the RC comes out. There is no reason the building could not be piped for hockey. Would not be necessary for Atlantic hockey as the north wall of the Boss can be blown out to easily double the seating. The building was designed with this in mind. The locker rooms and additional features of Boss are world class.

It was my understanding that the Ryan Center was specifically designed for basketball and was never intended to be a multi sport venue that could host hockey. Even if the building could somehow be retrofitted (which I do not think is feasible without major and costly renovation), where does the money come from? The school can't even come up with funds to make the east stands at Meade better. Keep in mind that the SADC took over ten years to get funded/built going from a stand alone building to the downsized version we have today which is located in a 40+ year old facility.

hrstrat57 wrote:The entire lower tier of the RC comes out. There is no reason the building could not be piped for hockey. Would not be necessary for Atlantic hockey as the north wall of the Boss can be blown out to easily double the seating. The building was designed with this in mind. The locker rooms and additional features of Boss are world class.

I've been one of the bigger proponents of having a D1 hockey squad on the board, but if the plan is to change the Ryan Center I'm out. Trying to shoehorn a hockey rink in there will just result in a poor atmosphere for basketball games and with the added use of the Ryan Center a basketball practice facility would move from unnecessary bright shiny object to necessity. An expanded Boss Arena would be perfectly suitable for ECAC play.

RF1 wrote:

RhowdyRam02 wrote:

RF1 wrote:Besides, the hoops and hockey schedules overlap with one another and would compete at the same time for the limited fan support that URI has.

The calendar overlaps, but the fan bases don't. Hockey people don't care about basketball for the most part and vice versa.

If I am wrong and your premise is correct, where then do all the D1 hockey fans come from? Is the large fanbase necessary for D1 hockey going to suddenly materialize out of thin air?

The PBruins would be our biggest competition, not the basketball team. Right now potential URI hockey fans and groups that would go to the Boss Arena for games are going to Providence. And with hockey people not caring about basketball, you have a group of sports fan alumni who don't go to the basketball games right now because while they love the university they just don't care about the sport. There is a market for a URI D1 hockey team.

Does anyone know where the $$$ from renting ice goes back too?

Last I knew the ice was sold out 22 hours a day 364 days a year. I believe Boss is home ice for at least 5 RI HS teams - NK, SK, Narragansett and Prout along with the regional girls coop team. Last I knew there was desperate talk about adding a 2nd sheet of ice to accommodate the demand. I'm pretty sure we already have 2 compressor systems?

Disagree a bit with you rhowdy all of the alumni in my area would absolutely support both hockey and basketball ( most still support football too and also attend URI soccer)

The notion that Boss Arena can't handle D1 hockey is wrong. It wasn't built with club level teams in mind.

Boss Arena - 2,500 capacity
Schneider - 3,020 capacity
Meehan - 3,100 capacity

The large arena for NCAA hockey is the exception not the rule.

Da_Process_Survivor wrote:The notion that Boss Arena can't handle D1 hockey is wrong. It wasn't built with club level teams in mind.

Boss Arena - 2,500 capacity
Schneider - 3,020 capacity
Meehan - 3,100 capacity

The large arena for NCAA hockey is the exception not the rule.

Schneider and Meehan have undergone recent multi million dollar facelifts and added many fan amenities. Boss, which is entirely bleacher seating, doesn't really compare.

RF1 Boss is fine as is to get started. We hockey fans are used to sitting in a cold rink with few amenities ha ha! It's a nice rink nothing at all wrong with it.

However I can't even imagine an upgraded Boss and the RC sold out for simultaneous d1 hockey and hoops. The teams would have to coordinate events to avoid that. The chaos would be epic.

I would assume a move to Division 1 would take time. UConn went Division 1 in 1998 in the Atlantic, and just moved to Hockey East a couple of years ago. This transition would enable URI to upgrade Boss arena. Once they have success, they could look at moving to Hockey East or ECAC, which are probably the two best leagues in the country this year.

snooper, most friarfans hate URI and most friarfans think URI should drop football. The "I also want to see URI do well" comment was quite comical.

Now run along back to your board. You have way to much time on your hands.

GO RHODY!

If URI drops football, URI will get better at basketball, and PC fans will not like that.

It'd be nice if Athletics could make getting a new Basketball PA announcer a priority. York's act = getting old fast. It's on my Christmas Wish list. A man can dream. I would literally "beg" Mancuso to come back. He was the best PA guy ever! Sigh....one can dream.

I would think that if Dan thinks York's act is a distraction, then something would be done about it.

RF1 wrote:

Da_Process_Survivor wrote:The notion that Boss Arena can't handle D1 hockey is wrong. It wasn't built with club level teams in mind.

Boss Arena - 2,500 capacity
Schneider - 3,020 capacity
Meehan - 3,100 capacity

The large arena for NCAA hockey is the exception not the rule.

Schneider and Meehan have undergone recent multi million dollar facelifts and added many fan amenities. Boss, which is entirely bleacher seating, doesn't really compare.

The University of Michigan has won national championships while their arena has bleacher seating. It's a nonfactor.

I know that when they were designing the Ryan they were looking into a dual purpose arena. They purposely decided against it do to the fact that the facility would turn out to be good for neither and went with separate facilities. I agree that if URI went to division I hockey they should eventually be in Hockey East. The other five New England State Universities are in Hockey East, URI should be with them. If it means a gradual pace to get there, like UConn, that's fine. But eventually, they would belong there. Boss was built with possible expansion in mind. So that's what they should do.

RhowdyRam02 wrote: The University of Michigan has won national championships while their arena has bleacher seating. It's a nonfactor.

Michigan's home rink, Yost Arena, is on a different level than Boss (Yost doesn't look at all like Boss in the photo below). It's most recent renovation in 2012 cost the University of Michigan Athletics Department $16 million. The renovation included: ADA accessible seating, new aluminum bench seating throughout, "ice" box seats in the corners of the arena, seat backed premium seating, a new press box, a redesigned concourse with improved concessions, exterior windows and updated lighting and sound systems. These upgrades followed the installation of a new HD video board installed in 2011. Yost Ice Arena's seating was reduced from 6,200 to 5,800, though premium seating was expanded from 300 to 500 and total capacity is approximately 6,600.



Note luxury boxes on upper left

I'd love for there to be an in-depth article on the state of URI athletics. Give the supporters, fans, alumni, etc a long range perspective on where this Atheltic Department sees itself in 5, 10, 15yrs. Many D1 schools have plans and we hear about these plans through some way shape(like UNH's football stadium upgrades) or form but never hear anything about URI! As an Atheltic donor, I'm tired of seeing every educational department moving forward, get new buildings, nice big page articles in Quadangles etc, but crickets with the Atheltic department. There has to be someone on this page that's "in the know" or "knows a guy" that can find out what URI's plans are. Things seem way too tight lipped for being Rhode Island.,

GansettRam74 wrote:I'd love for there to be an in-depth article on the state of URI athletics.

Agreed that this would be great, but likely requires way too much work. It's much easier to just take a picture of an empty section of the arena and write the 500th "where are the fans" article.

I was all excited when I saw the title of this thread, 'Priorities'. If this is truly a PC fan that started this, maybe you could ask why the state borrowed over $110 million to fix over the Dunk (interest expenses will more than double the cost over 25 years), and URI had to privately fund, 70% or Ryan Center, 100% of football West Stands, Fieldturf baseball field, and new Tennis facilities, and URI still have 45year old pools, 40 year old East stands at Meade, no outdoor track, but the fine State of RI will spend more than $10 million a year on the Dunk and more if operational revenue fall short for private business interests.
However I would like to thank the voters for approving Bond issues for the new Academic buildings on campus, the 1st of such in over 50 years, something that the Dunk never had, statewide voter approval.

PC/Brown on Cox right now. Mayors Cup. No 1 ranked team in the country. Thursday night, building 2/3 empty.

No students on campus?

Shame!

Don't know how to link a tweet here but this one posted by KM is hilarious.....copy pasted

Kevin McNamara ‏@KevinMcNamara33 4m4 minutes ago
Don't let @JDonaldsonProJo watch this PC-Brown hockey game. Fans disguised as empty seats everywhere.
6:08 PM - 10 Dec 2015 · Details

hrstrat57 wrote:Does anyone know where the $$$ from renting ice goes back too?

Last I knew the ice was sold out 22 hours a day 364 days a year. I believe Boss is home ice for at least 5 RI HS teams - NK, SK, Narragansett and Prout along with the regional girls coop team. Last I knew there was desperate talk about adding a 2nd sheet of ice to accommodate the demand. I'm pretty sure we already have 2 compressor systems?

There are 3 high school games tonight alone at Boss Arena.

I know this is 13 years old, but interesting read...

http://www.uscho.com/2002/09/17/uri-bui ... -i-hockey/

For those that think URI would have no trouble finding success in D1 Hockey, I thought it might be useful to look at the history of UMass (also see UConn in subsequent post). In the 22 completed seasons since it reintroduced hockey at the D1 level, UMass has had a total of four winning seasons. The first of those was in its transition year when it had no conference affiliation and played many non D1 opponents. UMass has gone 274-437-69 in its last 22 years of D1. The school has made just one NCAA Hockey appearance (2007) since 1994.

UMASS HOCKEY SINCE D1 STARTUP
SEASON WINS | LOSSES | TIES
==========================
1993-94 # 20 - 9 - 0 (mostly non D1 opponents)
1994-95 6 - 28 - 2 (1st season in HEA)
1995-96 10 - 19 - 6
1996-97 12 - 23 - 0
1997-98 6 - 24 - 3
1998-99 12 - 21 - 2
1999-00 11 - 20 - 5
2000-01 8 - 22 - 4
2001-02 8 - 24 - 2
2002-03 19 - 17 - 1
2003-04 17 - 14 - 6
2004-05 13 - 23 - 2
2005-06 13 - 21 - 2
2006-07 * 21 - 13 - 5
2007-08 14 - 16 - 6
2008-09 16 - 20 - 3
2009-10 18 - 18 - 0
2010-11 6 - 23 - 6
2011-12 13 - 18 - 5
2012-13 12 - 19 - 3
2013-14 8 - 22 - 4
2014-15 11 - 23 - 2
OVERALL 274 - 437 - 69


* NCAA
# D1 Transition year/no conference


The reintroduction of hockey at UMass coincided with the opening of the multi-sport Mullins Center. The Mullins has a capacity of 9,493 for basketball and 8,387 for hockey. In addition to the main arena, there is an adjacent practice ice facility for men's hockey (it is the home for all women's hockey games).

Mullins Center (arena to left and ice practice facility on right)

UConn has four winning records in the 17 completed seasons since it reintroduced hockey at the D1 level. It has gone 229-322-64 in that span. The school has yet to make an NCAA Hockey appearance since 1999.

UCONN HOCKEY SINCE D1 STARTUP
SEASON WINS | LOSSES | TIES
=========================================
1998-99 20 - 10 - 4 - MAAC
1999-00 19 - 16 - 1 - MAAC
2000-01 12 - 19 - 4 - MAAC
2001-02 13 - 16 - 7 - MAAC
2002-03 8 - 23 - 3 - MAAC
2003-04 12 - 16 - 7 - AHA
2004-05 11 - 23 - 3 - AHA
2005-06 11 - 23 - 2 - AHA
2006-07 16 - 18 - 2 - AHA
2007-08 13 - 21 - 3 - AHA
2008-09 9 - 26 - 2 - AHA
2009-10 7 - 27 - 3 - AHA
2010-11 15 - 18 - 4 - AHA
2011-12 16 - 19 - 4 - AHA
2012-13 19 - 14 - 4 - AHA
2013-14 18 - 14 - 4 - AHA
2014-15 10 - 19 - 7 - HEA
OVERALL 229 - 322 - 64



UConn initially played all its D1 home games at the Mark Edward Freitas Ice Forum, a 2,000-seat hockey rink in Storrs, Connecticut which opened in 1998. It is similar in many respects to URI's Boss Arena. As part of the agreement to join Hockey East, the Huskies agreed to play all league games off campus at the XLCenter in downtown Hartford. The school reportedly consented to play HEA games in Hartford as terms of its membership until a brand new on campus arena (comparable to HEA standards) is built.

Freitas Ice Forum

UMass and UConn have gone a combined 503-759-133 since they introduced D1 hockey in the 90's. They have one NCAA Hockey appearance and 8 winning slates in a combined 39 seasons.

We all know for fact however that URI would not have a similar hockey fate. Rhode Island Athletics is on another level when compared to UConn and UMass. Our Athletic Dept is known nationwide for managing successful programs. Besides, youth and high school hockey is very big in RI. The much larger neighboring states of MA and CT cannot compare. It is beyond debate that URI hockey will easily transition to D1, have early success, and draw huge crowds.

(sarcasm intended above)

So based on the above criteria, football should have been killed off years ago.

Many hockey supporters have suggested membership in the Atlantic Hockey Association if it were to move to D1. The reasoning being that no high level D1 league (HEA or ECAC) would likely offer immediate membership to a D1 startup and URI would be better initially situated in Atlantic Hockey as its level of play and facilities would be more on par.

To give you a good feeling for Atlantic Hockey, it might make sense for people to familiarize themselves with its membership. These are the current teams:

ATLANTIC HOCKEY
American International College (AIC)
Army
Bentley
Canisius
Holy Cross
Mercyhurst
Niagara
RIT
Robert Morric College
Sacred Heart
US Air Force

What am I missing, if you look at umass,uconn, after 20 years not much NCAA success, I would stick To football, make fcs playoffs

OBRAM wrote:What am I missing, if you look at umass,uconn, after 20 years not much NCAA success, I would stick To football, make fcs playoffs

So the rational to not have one sport is that OTHER schools havent had success with it. But the sport that we do have that is the definition of unsuccessful should stick around? Interesting way of looking at things.

I am not necessarily against having a D1 hockey program. If URI had the money, management skills, and the will to have a successful program, I would be all for it. I however don't think URI has any of those three traits. I also don't want a sport (football) that has existed for 100 years dropped for the sake of something new and unproven. My fear is that one unsuccessful underfunded program with sub-par facilities would just be replaced by another. I also am not sure that URI would be able to easily elevate a hockey program to success and attract the necessary support and fan interest as others seem to blindly assume. I would rather that URI fully supports the sports it currently has and enables them to have success. If that could be done, I would have more faith that hockey could be started and succeed.

Coach Augustine has the proven ability to run a top notch operation.

Boss Arena is excellent needs zero upgrade for entry into either ECAC, Atlantic or NCAA D3.

Rhode Island would not be welcomed into Hockey East. Providence would stand hard against it and the complete failure of UConn and UMass at that elite level as you correctly point out would leave the league reluctant to offer an invitation to a third Yankee conference school. Vermont jumped from ECAC to Hockey East and has also been largely unsuccessful and many associated with the Catamount program view that jump as a mistake. URI should have replaced UVM in the ECAC, out team was strong and ready to recruit players to immediately play .500 hockey.

I think UML and Quinnipiac are better examples of recent program upgrades that are surging. It will also be interesting to watch ASU (playing RPI tonight) and Penn State to provide an insight into the leap from ACHA to NCAA D1.

I hope we haven't run out of time tho, this years ACHA club is struggling. It is shocking that Augustine has hung around this long.

Again, who can tell me where the piles of cash being made from renting ice is going?

hrstrat57 wrote:Coach Augustine has the proven ability to run a top notch operation.

Boss Arena is excellent needs zero upgrade for entry into either ECAC, Atlantic or NCAA D3.

Rhode Island would not be welcomed into Hockey East. Providence would stand hard against it and the complete failure of UConn and UMass at that elite level as you correctly point out would leave the league reluctant to offer an invitation to a third Yankee conference school. Vermont jumped from ECAC to Hockey East and has also been largely unsuccessful and many associated with the Catamount program view that jump as a mistake. URI should have replaced UVM in the ECAC, out team was strong and ready to recruit players to immediately play .500 hockey.

I think UML and Quinnipiac are better examples of recent program upgrades that are surging. It will also be interesting to watch ASU (playing RPI tonight) and Penn State to provide an insight into the leap from ACHA to NCAA D1.

I hope we haven't run out of time tho, this years ACHA club is struggling. It is shocking that Augustine has hung around this long.

Again, who can tell me where the piles of cash being made from renting ice is going?

D3 is not an option. There is no D1 school competing in D3 hockey as I don't believe you can have a D1 athletics program and compete in a lower division. While Boss is acceptable for Atlantic Hockey, it would rate toward the bottom of the ECAC in capacity and amenities.

I would agree that Providence may not be in favor of adding another RI team. There were no other HEA members in western MA or CT when UMass and UConn were extended invites.

As for UConn in HEA not being a good example, it has only been in that league for one season. Most of its lack of success was in the low level MAAC which later became Atlantic Hockey. It never really attained much success in the 16 years it was in that league. Quinnipiac and UMass-Lowell have been able to succeed in D1 hockey as you referenced. They however do not have other high level D1 athletic programs. UMass-Lowell wasn't even a D1 school for all sports when it added D1 hockey. These schools are therefore able to concentrate most of their focus on hockey, their primary marquis program, which has helped. That would not be the case at URI.



ECAC HOCKEY ARENAS
School Hockey arena (built) Capacity
Brown Meehan Auditorium (1962) 3,100
Clarkson Cheel Arena (1991) 3,000
Colgate Starr Rink (1959) 2,246
Cornell Lynah Rink (1957) 4,267
Dartmouth Thompson Arena (1975) 4,500
Harvard Bright Hockey Center (1956/1979) 2,850
Princeton Hobey Baker Memorial Rink (1923) 2,092
Quinnipiac TD Bank Sports Center (2007) 3,386
Rensselaer Houston Field House (1949) 4,780
St. Lawrence Appleton Arena (1951) 3,000
Union Frank L. Messa Rink at Achilles Center (1975) 2,225
Yale Ingalls Rink (1958) 3,500

Again Boss was designed to blow out the north wall and add seating.

Let's get in the ECAC first. Agree Atlantic hockey is not the best choice. If we drop football to d3 I believe our men's and women's hockey programs could enter NCAA via that route - need a rules expert on that one. I want us in the ECAC where we should have been since UVM bolted for hockey east.

No issue - zero with Boss for ECAC entry.

Where is the money being made on our rink going?? Are we adding a 2nd sheet soon? Is Prout still contemplating a rink on their campus to lesson the load on our single ice surface? ( best ice in RI btw I'm told)

How much longer is Augustine gonna hang around waiting for his rhody dreams to come true?

Football is not the obstacle to NCAA hockey at URI. The obstacle is title IX which would require the addition of a womens sport to offset men's hockey. The equally deserving womens team is ready to jump right now. Title IX and money have kept the jump from happening.

I see football as a completely different issue. Of course most here disagree.