Pawsox Sold, Moving to Worcester

[ramster]

[ramster]

[RF1]

Certainly looks like a lot of construction work is still to be done. Just a little over seven months, with half of that in a miserable Worcester winter, before the "supposed" opening day in early April, virus permitting.

[RF1]

nm

[RF1]

The hits keep coming:

September 14, 2020
Planned $23M parking garage for Polar Park delayed
https://www.wbjournal.com/article/plann ... rk-delayed

A planned Worcester parking garage for more than 500 spaces meant to help with vehicle traffic for baseball games at Polar Park has been delayed, with an undetermined finish date next year.

[RF1]

More troubles in Worcester concerning the ballpark and development around it:


September 15, 2020
Under negotiation: Worcester yet to finalize PawSox deal or obtain deed for ballpark property
https://www.wbjournal.com/article/under ... r-ballpark

Excerpts:
More than two years after Worcester city officials announced the Pawtucket Red Sox were moving to the Canal District, there is no formal lease agreement legally obligating the team to come to Worcester.

And about six months before the minor league baseball team is scheduled to begin play in a new $132-million public stadium, the city government still doesn't own the property on which its ballpark sits, even as construction on the project is well underway.

Also, the city has no binding agreement with Boston developer Madison Properties to build a $125-million mixed-use project just outside the ballpark, which the city is relying heavily upon to create new tax revenue to allow the city-owned Polar Park to pay for itself.

[SGreenwell]

Nobody could have seen this coming except everybody. Also, is construction work different in New England vs. the rest of the country? At least around here in Texas, construction projects - especially roadwork - were getting done early.

[NYGFan_Section208]

Repeat: The PawSox have not played their last game in the bucket - unless the town gives them the Heisman.

[rhodyruckus]

Repeat: The PawSox have not played their last game in the bucket - unless the town gives them the Heisman.

Pawtucket will give them the Heisman except with palm pointed up, as in "give me the money!" The shorter the term of a lease, the bigger a bag it will take for the city to let the team stay.

[NYGFan_Section208]

Repeat: The PawSox have not played their last game in the bucket - unless the town gives them the Heisman.

Pawtucket will give them the Heisman except with palm pointed up, as in "give me the money!" The shorter the term of a lease, the bigger a bag it will take for the city to let the team stay.

They aren't going to 'stay', I'm just saying, the PawSox have not played their last game at McCoy....that's all.

[RF1]

Another day with more bad news for the Worcester baseball park project:

September 19, 2020
Polar Park project private development delayed by COVID-19 pandemic
https://www.telegram.com/news/20200918/ ... 9-pandemic

Excerpt:
The city has to modify its agreement with Madison WG Holdings, LLC for the private development portion of the Polar Park project because of expected one- or two-year building delays caused by the COVID-19 pandemic.

[ramster]

So sad that one person could have so much to do with Rhode Island losing an institution

[Rhody74]

So sad that one person could have so much to do with Rhode Island losing an institution

The PawSox left RI because the owners got a deal we weren’t willing to pay for. Given what’s happening in Worcester with delayed deals and cost overruns it’s probably a good thing

[ramster]

So sad that one person could have so much to do with Rhode Island losing an institution

The PawSox left RI because the owners got a deal we weren’t willing to pay for. Given what’s happening in Worcester with delayed deals and cost overruns it’s probably a good thing

It was a shame RI lost the Pawtucket Red Sox
It will really hurt when the WooSox play their season next year.

Politics did the PawSox in

[RF1]

So sad that one person could have so much to do with Rhode Island losing an institution

The PawSox left RI because the owners got a deal we weren’t willing to pay for. Given what’s happening in Worcester with delayed deals and cost overruns it’s probably a good thing

If the state's so called leaders had first gotten a deal done when they had exclusive negotiating rights (a year before they finally passed their legislation), Worcester would never had the time and opportunity to put a deal together. RI would have kept the team at a much lower cost than what Worcester was ultimately (and very foolishly) willing to pay for.

In any regard, I do think this is a very bad time to be opening a new park in a new market. The pandemic is going to have a very big negative impact on a team's operations and attendance. Furthermore, there will not be a big hoped for spillover interest boost from the parent Bosox club given its pitiful present standing. Getting additional development built around a new park will be a big struggle for several years now due to the Covid effects on the economy. The Pawsox, while not having to build a new fan market, would have faced many of these obstacles had they remained in RI.

[ramster]

So sad that one person could have so much to do with Rhode Island losing an institution

The PawSox left RI because the owners got a deal we weren’t willing to pay for. Given what’s happening in Worcester with delayed deals and cost overruns it’s probably a good thing

If the state's so called leaders had first gotten a deal done when they had exclusive negotiating rights (a year before they finally passed their legislation), Worcester would never had the time and opportunity to put a deal together. RI would have kept the team at a much lower cost than what Worcester was ultimately (and very foolishly) willing to pay for.

In any regard, I do think this is a very bad time to be opening a new park in a new market. The pandemic is going to have a very big negative impact on a team's operations and attendance. Furthermore, there will not be a big hoped for spillover interest boost from the parent Bosox club given its pitiful present standing. The Pawsox, while not having to build a new fan market, would have faced many of these obstacles had they remained in RI.

The pitiful Boston Red Sox performance would also negatively impact the PawSox. The Covid Pandemic is impacting all sports around the US and the World

In the long run Rhode Island will miss the PawSox. It was a tragedy. No reason to celebrate that Worcester is experiencing some bad short term timing, in the long run Worcester will be happy with the WooSox. I will be making the trip up to Worcester several times per year, staying overnight after some games.

[Ramulous]

I for one am against giving multi millionaires public money for private purposes.

I don’t believe the return on investment warrants it for the public.

Especially at the minor league level.

I shed no tears for the departure of the business.

[RF1]

The PawSox left RI because the owners got a deal we weren’t willing to pay for. Given what’s happening in Worcester with delayed deals and cost overruns it’s probably a good thing

If the state's so called leaders had first gotten a deal done when they had exclusive negotiating rights (a year before they finally passed their legislation), Worcester would never had the time and opportunity to put a deal together. RI would have kept the team at a much lower cost than what Worcester was ultimately (and very foolishly) willing to pay for.

In any regard, I do think this is a very bad time to be opening a new park in a new market. The pandemic is going to have a very big negative impact on a team's operations and attendance. Furthermore, there will not be a big hoped for spillover interest boost from the parent Bosox club given its pitiful present standing. The Pawsox, while not having to build a new fan market, would have faced many of these obstacles had they remained in RI.

The pitiful Boston Red Sox performance would also negatively impact the PawSox. The Covid Pandemic is impacting all sports around the US and the World

In the long run Rhode Island will miss the PawSox. It was a tragedy. No reason to celebrate that Worcester is experiencing some bad short term timing, in the long run Worcester will be happy with the WooSox. I will be making the trip up to Worcester several times per year, staying overnight after some games.

My last sentence of my post indicated that a new park in RI would have faced many of the same issues as well.

As for you going up to Worcester - don't expect to see large number of others driving up Route 146 with you. Rhode Islanders are angry about what transpired and they are very much averse to traveling far, especially to foreign places. I went to school in Worcester and worked in Worcester county for a decade. However, as someone that grew up not all that far from McCoy, I will NEVER attend a WooSox game. I also very much want this entire Polar Park project to fail miserably. Worcester was far too generous and if this project succeeds, it will mean owners will expect even bigger future handouts and cities might just be willing to oblige.

[ramster]

If the state's so called leaders had first gotten a deal done when they had exclusive negotiating rights (a year before they finally passed their legislation), Worcester would never had the time and opportunity to put a deal together. RI would have kept the team at a much lower cost than what Worcester was ultimately (and very foolishly) willing to pay for.

In any regard, I do think this is a very bad time to be opening a new park in a new market. The pandemic is going to have a very big negative impact on a team's operations and attendance. Furthermore, there will not be a big hoped for spillover interest boost from the parent Bosox club given its pitiful present standing. The Pawsox, while not having to build a new fan market, would have faced many of these obstacles had they remained in RI.

The pitiful Boston Red Sox performance would also negatively impact the PawSox. The Covid Pandemic is impacting all sports around the US and the World

In the long run Rhode Island will miss the PawSox. It was a tragedy. No reason to celebrate that Worcester is experiencing some bad short term timing, in the long run Worcester will be happy with the WooSox. I will be making the trip up to Worcester several times per year, staying overnight after some games.

My last sentence of my post indicated that a new park in RI would have faced many of the same issues as well.

As for you going up to Worcester - don't expect to see large number of others driving up Route 146 with you. Rhode Islanders are angry about what transpired and they are very much averse to traveling far, especially to foreign places. I went to school in Worcester and worked in Worcester county for a decade. However, as someone that grew up not all that far from McCoy, I will NEVER attend a WooSox game. I also very much want this entire Polar Park project to fail miserably. Worcester was far too generous and if this project succeeds, it will mean owners will expect even bigger future handouts and cities might just be willing to oblige.

I don't blame Worcester and I have no hard feelings for them or the Red Sox.

Rhode Island blew this. RI Speaker of the House is to blame as is the Governor. This never had to happen.

I have just the opposite view. I hope the WooSox exceed expectations and I will always root for the Red Sox, minor league teams included. Show the Rhode Island Politicians just how stupid, lazy, dumb and selfish they were (are).

[rhodyruckus]

My complaint is did RI politicians all of a sudden become budget-conscious when reviewing this project? No, it was all visibility and about the election. In the end the politicians were not wrong, because whom of the principals in the spiking of the deal lost their jobs?

As Patinkin mentioned, the state investment would be basically identical to the lavish cost of the Providence River pedestrian bridge, which benefits maybe some of the new academic buildings in the jewelry district and the businesses on South Water/South Main St. As opposed to a new or renovated McCoy which would have brought MA "foreigners" into the state and the potential of new development. With the economy I doubt it would have been smooth, but ANY development in Pawtucket is sorely needed.

[ramster]

My complaint is did RI politicians all of a sudden become budget-conscious when reviewing this project? No, it was all visibility and about the election. In the end the politicians were not wrong, because whom of the principals in the spiking of the deal lost their jobs?

As Patinkin mentioned, the state investment would be basically identical to the lavish cost of the Providence River pedestrian bridge, which benefits maybe some of the new academic buildings in the jewelry district and the businesses on South Water/South Main St. As opposed to a new or renovated McCoy which would have brought MA "foreigners" into the state and the potential of new development. With the economy I doubt it would have been smooth, but ANY development in Pawtucket is sorely needed.

Excerpts from the Projo Article.......

It’s a reminder for me of who killed a 50-year Rhode Island treasure.
More than anyone else, one man.
House Speaker Nicholas Mattiello.

Don’t believe those who say the team left because Worcester coughed up more for the stadium.
They did, but the mostly Rhode Island PawSox ownership was willing to take our cheaper offer, shouldering perhaps $20 million extra to keep the team in its ancestral home.
The deal would have been the most favorable for any state in the history of Triple-A publicly owned stadiums: more than half the $83-million cost would come from the owners. And only $23 million from state taxpayers; the rest was from Pawtucket.

The ultimate irony is that taxpayers may end up being more burned than protected by Mattiello’s killing of the PawSox.
First of all, here was a chance to leverage an $83-million stadium with a $23-million state taxpayer investment — almost precisely what was just spent on the new Providence pedestrian bridge. So $45 million in outside investment, gone.
Plus, we’d have gotten more than a stadium, because the owners pledged 50,000 square feet of development around the new Pawtucket park.
Mattiello threw all that away.
And another irony. If Pawtucket does field a Single-A team to replace the PawSox, the state will have to spend — yes, same amount — $20 million-plus to rehab McCoy.


You are right Ruckus.
Taxpayers paid for the Walking/Cycling Bridge over the Providence River that was equal to what the PawSox would have cost Taxpayers. I often walk or cycle across this Bridge - not very much usage. No place to shield from the sun, no trees except for the small trees that they planted that will take 20 years to provide much shade.

A shame Rhode Island lost the PawSox to any other city/state.

[ramster]

Bye bye Mattiello, bye bye

Paw Sox fans wave goodbye too
WooSox fans say thank you

[Ramulous]

I agreed with Mattiello on the Pawsox

[ramster]

[RF1]

Very happy to see Mattiello go down to defeat. Wish it had been two years earlier. Pawsox would have stayed.

[Rhodymob05]

Looks nice, what could have been. Sox offseason talk constantly mentioning "player from Worcester" and it bothers the hell out of me.

[ramster]

What a shame. Never should have happened.

Mattiello is out having lost in November
and
Raimondo goes to Washington

[RIFan]

I live about 15 minutes from the new park and it looks very nice. The area around it has a ton of very cool restaurants and shopping options. The newish Worcester Public Market (with beer garden) is 1-2 streets over https://www.worcesterpublicmarket.org/. The experience will be closer to going to a red sox game than a pawsox game in Pawtucket.

[ramster]

[RF1]

I very much hope that Polar Park and the Worcester Red Sox fail miserably. Even though I lived or worked in Worcester County for a decade and know the city well, I as a RI native will never step foot in that park. I suggest others stay away as well.

[Rhody74]

I live about 15 minutes from the new park and it looks very nice. The area around it has a ton of very cool restaurants and shopping options. The newish Worcester Public Market (with beer garden) is 1-2 streets over https://www.worcesterpublicmarket.org/. The experience will be closer to going to a red sox game than a pawsox game in Pawtucket.

For me it’s only 15 minutes further than Pawtucket so I will check it out once single seat tickets are on sale.

[ramster]

I very much hope that Polar Park and the Worcester Red Sox fail miserably. Even though I lived or worked in Worcester County for a decade and know the city well, I as a RI native will never step foot in that park. I suggest others stay away as well.

I am not going to allow the poor performance of former Speaker of the House Nicholas Mattiello and former Governor Raimondo keep me from going to watch the WooSox. I love minor league baseball and loved the PawSox for 50 years.

It's a shame that Rhode Island let the PawSox get away. But life goes on and McCoy Stadium is now only history.

[ramster]

I live about 15 minutes from the new park and it looks very nice. The area around it has a ton of very cool restaurants and shopping options. The newish Worcester Public Market (with beer garden) is 1-2 streets over https://www.worcesterpublicmarket.org/. The experience will be closer to going to a red sox game than a pawsox game in Pawtucket.

For me it’s only 15 minutes further than Pawtucket so I will check it out once single seat tickets are on sale.

I'm looking forward to going to multiple games this summer. Will book a whole weekend of back to back games and take in new improvements to the city.

It's not the fault of the WooSox that RI Politicians let the PawSox slip away. At least it's not a very long drive from RI. It's all in the past now.

[RF1]

While there is plenty of blame to go around in RI for the loss of the team, any Rhode Islander that attends games in Worcester affirms acceptance of the way the Red Sox ownership treated its longtime RI fans and shows support of exorbitant taxpayer money (over $100M in this instance) being used to subsidize construction of stadiums for wealthy sports team owners. Attending games in Worcester will only embolden owners to use fans and taxpayers as pawns even more in the future.

[ramster]

Nobody asked my opinion when Mattiello and Raimondo screwed it all up, I am sure it will not make any difference if I attend games in Worcester.
Life is too short to worry about such things as emboldening owners.
I'll go, have a couple of beers and stay in Hotels for the weekend.

No difference than if I go to Fenway Park for the Red Sox, same organization and no way am I giving up going to Fenway.

Play ball!

[RhowdyRam02]

I very much hope that Polar Park and the Worcester Red Sox fail miserably. Even though I lived or worked in Worcester County for a decade and know the city well, I as a RI native will never step foot in that park. I suggest others stay away as well.

I was a partial season ticket holder for the PawSox and I'll never step foot in that building. I'd rather make the trip to Hartford to see the Yard Goats or go to Old Mountain Field or Newport for one of the summer college teams

[RhowdyRam02]

I very much hope that Polar Park and the Worcester Red Sox fail miserably. Even though I lived or worked in Worcester County for a decade and know the city well, I as a RI native will never step foot in that park. I suggest others stay away as well.

I am not going to allow the poor performance of former Speaker of the House Nicholas Mattiello and former Governor Raimondo keep me from going to watch the WooSox. I love minor league baseball and loved the PawSox for 50 years.

It's a shame that Rhode Island let the PawSox get away. But life goes on and McCoy Stadium is now only history.

I can't believe there are still people that blame Raimondo for what happened. There's plenty of things you can complain about with her, how she handled the PawSox situation isn't one of them

[RhowdyRam02]

While there is plenty of blame to go around in RI for the loss of the team, any Rhode Islander that attends games in Worcester affirms acceptance of the way the Red Sox ownership treated its longtime RI fans and shows support of exorbitant taxpayer money (over $100M in this instance) being used to subsidize construction of stadiums for wealthy sports team owners. Attending games in Worcester will only embolden owners to use fans and taxpayers as pawns even more in the future.

The PawSox owners treated RI like shit. Their first proposal was to pay $85 million for the ballpark in Providence and charge RIers $120 million over 30 years for it. $35 million in profit after claiming they were going to pay everything themselves. Raimondo rightfully squashed that horrible offer. After that terrible proposal the water was poisoned

[RhowdyRam02]

Nobody asked my opinion when Mattiello and Raimondo screwed it all up, I am sure it will not make any difference if I attend games in Worcester.
Life is too short to worry about such things as emboldening owners.
I'll go, have a couple of beers and stay in Hotels for the weekend.

No difference than if I go to Fenway Park for the Red Sox, same organization and no way am I giving up going to Fenway.

Play ball!

People really should give up Fenway, it's a terrible ballpark to see a game in. They really should have built a new MLB park and just refurbished McCoy

[STC]

I very much hope that Polar Park and the Worcester Red Sox fail miserably. Even though I lived or worked in Worcester County for a decade and know the city well, I as a RI native will never step foot in that park. I suggest others stay away as well.

If this is how you feel about the Paw Sox then I’d bet you have some scalding hot takes on your ex’s.

[ramster]

all we will have now are memories

[NYGFan_Section208]

While there is plenty of blame to go around in RI for the loss of the team, any Rhode Islander that attends games in Worcester affirms acceptance of the way the Red Sox ownership treated its longtime RI fans and shows support of exorbitant taxpayer money (over $100M in this instance) being used to subsidize construction of stadiums for wealthy sports team owners. Attending games in Worcester will only embolden owners to use fans and taxpayers as pawns even more in the future.

Seems nutty ^^^^^^

[SGreenwell]

While there is plenty of blame to go around in RI for the loss of the team, any Rhode Islander that attends games in Worcester affirms acceptance of the way the Red Sox ownership treated its longtime RI fans and shows support of exorbitant taxpayer money (over $100M in this instance) being used to subsidize construction of stadiums for wealthy sports team owners. Attending games in Worcester will only embolden owners to use fans and taxpayers as pawns even more in the future.

Seems nutty ^^^^^^

Not really. There are now 20+ years of studies on the effect of ballpark and stadium revenue, and it's almost always a poor ROI. However, luring a professional sports team to an area is a politically popular thing, or as this thread has shown, a politically negative thing if you lose the team. You're going to have a hard time to convince voters to spend $100M on revitalizing downtown properties, but they'll approve a ballpark. (Although, looking into it some more, it wasn't polling well in 2018.)

[NYGFan_Section208]

While there is plenty of blame to go around in RI for the loss of the team, any Rhode Islander that attends games in Worcester affirms acceptance of the way the Red Sox ownership treated its longtime RI fans and shows support of exorbitant taxpayer money (over $100M in this instance) being used to subsidize construction of stadiums for wealthy sports team owners. Attending games in Worcester will only embolden owners to use fans and taxpayers as pawns even more in the future.

Seems nutty ^^^^^^

Not really. There are now 20+ years of studies on the effect of ballpark and stadium revenue, and it's almost always a poor ROI. However, luring a professional sports team to an area is a politically popular thing, or as this thread has shown, a politically negative thing if you lose the team. You're going to have a hard time to convince voters to spend $100M on revitalizing downtown properties, but they'll approve a ballpark. (Although, looking into it some more, it wasn't polling well in 2018.)

All ballpark financing is obviously cray...but the part I thought was nutty is the idea of 'not going to games of the regionally local team...because they moved across a state border'. In other words, fandom impacted by politicians, and the idea that "this'll show 'em"...so owners don't get emboldened to (fill in the blank). That horse left the barn years ago...

[RhowdyRam02]

Seems nutty ^^^^^^

Not really. There are now 20+ years of studies on the effect of ballpark and stadium revenue, and it's almost always a poor ROI. However, luring a professional sports team to an area is a politically popular thing, or as this thread has shown, a politically negative thing if you lose the team. You're going to have a hard time to convince voters to spend $100M on revitalizing downtown properties, but they'll approve a ballpark. (Although, looking into it some more, it wasn't polling well in 2018.)

All ballpark financing is obviously cray...but the part I thought was nutty is the idea of 'not going to games of the regionally local team...because they moved across a state border'. In other words, fandom impacted by politicians, and the idea that "this'll show 'em"...so owners don't get emboldened to (fill in the blank). That horse left the barn years ago...

Fandom impacted by the new owners of the team who aren't fit to carry on Ben Mondor's legacy. Why should I attend a "regionally local team"'s game when they tried to bend my state over and took off when we wouldn't bend over enough for them? Who shit on the support that I gave for 40 plus years to go to a city that has failed at every minor league venture they've ever attempted? If I go to one of their games I'm an idiot, and yes, supporting the idea that owners can extort cities and states

[NYGFan_Section208]

Not really. There are now 20+ years of studies on the effect of ballpark and stadium revenue, and it's almost always a poor ROI. However, luring a professional sports team to an area is a politically popular thing, or as this thread has shown, a politically negative thing if you lose the team. You're going to have a hard time to convince voters to spend $100M on revitalizing downtown properties, but they'll approve a ballpark. (Although, looking into it some more, it wasn't polling well in 2018.)

All ballpark financing is obviously cray...but the part I thought was nutty is the idea of 'not going to games of the regionally local team...because they moved across a state border'. In other words, fandom impacted by politicians, and the idea that "this'll show 'em"...so owners don't get emboldened to (fill in the blank). That horse left the barn years ago...

Fandom impacted by the new owners of the team who aren't fit to carry on Ben Mondor's legacy. Why should I attend a "regionally local team"'s game when they tried to bend my state over and took off when we wouldn't bend over enough for them? Who shit on the support that I gave for 40 plus years to go to a city that has failed at every minor league venture they've ever attempted? If I go to one of their games I'm an idiot, and yes, supporting the idea that owners can extort cities and states

It's a baseball game...not a martyr/hero event...don't let 'em steal yer joy

[RF1]

Polar Park is set to open on May 10th. Initial reviews have been good concerning the interior. Its exterior and surrounding area are a different matter. I drove by it a few weeks ago when I was up in that area. It was surprisingly very ugly on the outside. Its facade is blue ribbed corrugated steel cladding along with glass and steel beams. Looks kind of cheap when you consider that more than $100M+ in public taxpayer funds contributed to its construction. It is a far cry from the early red brick retro old style traditional park design that was first proposed. The surrounding area is still a wasteland of empty brownfield sites. Parking very close by will be an initial problem as the parking garage that was supposed to be ready for its opening got pushed back and did not even appear to yet be under construction. All the other development whose new tax revenue was promised by politicians to pay for it has been delayed by a minimum of years (if fortunate) as the private company with the rights put everything on an extended hold due to the pandemic and its uncertain consequences.

Ugly exterior of Polar Park in Worcester with the elevated train tracks wall that cuts it off from the downtown in the background

[Rhodymob05]

https://www.kevinmcsports.com/podcasts/ ... -lucchino/

[ramster]

[ramster]