Pawsox Sold, Moving to Worcester

[ramster]

[RF1]

I am not the only person that found the Worcester Polar Park exterior to be pretty ugly:


The ballpark really is so ugly
https://billshaner.substack.com/p/the-b ... is-so-ugly

Excerpts:
Now anyway can we just talk for a second about how hideously ugly Polar Park is? Like how it looks like they went over to the train yard across the highway and stole a bunch of shipping containers and cut the sides off and threw the sides up on the building facade.

you have a park that is smaller and uglier than average and it’s the most expensive and that’s a title I’d really prefer the city not have.

[Rhodymob05]

Say what you want about the design, but they have the stadium and the team and the events ect, and we don't. James Taylor and Pedro Martinez amongst others were part of the opening day celebrations. I still blame the state house for this giant debacle.

[ramster]

[ramster]

[RF1]

Bob Cousy threw out the ceremonial first pitch at the opening game for the ugly ballpark in Worcester today. Would have been more fitting to have had the person most responsible for bringing AAA baseball to Worcester - Nick Mattiello of Cranston-RI.

[ramster]

Bob Cousy threw out the ceremonial first pitch at the opening game for the ugly ballpark in Worcester today. Would have been more fitting to have had the person most responsible for bringing AAA baseball to Worcester - Nick Mattiello of Cranston-RI.

Actually Cousy did not throw out the first pitch, he yelled "Play Ball". Pedro Martinez threw out the first pitch as did some others.

[ATPTourFan]

Paws the Paw Sox mascot there too?

[RF1]

Worcester has now officially opened its ugly ballpark. It will be up to city taxpayers to cover its exorbitant public cost of over $100M. In order for the team and stadium to succeed, the local community will have to come out to EACH and EVERY game YEAR after YEAR. This will have to run counter to the city's tepid support for its D1 college Holy Cross and short lived professional minor league teams such 1994-2005 IceCats (AHL), 2006-15 Sharks (AHL) and 2005-12 Tornados baseball team (Can-Am) which either moved or ceased operations.

[RhowdyRam02]

And it's going to depend on development projections being accurate that are always rosy in these calculations and are almost certainly not going to come close to happening post Covid. They got fleeced and I hope they choke on it

[RAMFAN]

Cost overruns bring price tag for tax payers to $150 million and may increase

http://www.fieldofschemes.com/2021/01/2 ... eep-track/

[ATPTourFan]

Scathing architectural review by GoLocalProv:
https://www.golocalprov.com/business/wo ... ritic-morg

[RF1]

The best that can be said for this Worcester ballpark is that it fits in well with its surroundings - lots of ugly in the city.

[ramster]

amen to that

[ramster]

[ramster]

5 lessons learned..........

[SGreenwell]

$157M - and counting - for the Woosox. That's about four 38 Studios. Best of luck to Worcester.

[ramster]

Wasn’t 38 studios $75,000,000? And state was out $38,000,000 and got zero in return?

[ramster]

What Worcester paid was not what Rhode Island would have paid. RI got offered a better deal than Worcester got. But nope, politicians blew it.


But first, to those who say Worcester overpaid, maybe, but they didn’t outbid us.

The team’s key owners, all local, were ready to spend millions more to keep the PawSox here. So they proposed the best deal in the history of public Triple-A stadiums – offering over half the $85 million cost and promising to cover construction overruns.

State taxpayers’ share was $23 million, about what we just spent on the Providence pedestrian bridge.

But our leaders blew it off.

As for the lessons to be learned, they're relevant even if you think the stadium was a bad idea.

[RF1]

Yet another poor review of the Worcester ballpark:


Worcester’s butt-ugly $160m stadium: an eyewitness report
May 19, 2021 Neil deMause
http://www.fieldofschemes.com/2021/05/1 ... ss-report/

[RIFan]

I live in a neighboring town and have driven by plenty of times and was less than impressed by the look from the outside. All I could think is they must be trying to be environmentally friendly...but, I have not heard anything about that being touted...so it must just be ugly.

[RF1]

‘A lousy week’: While WooSox celebrated victories inside Polar Park, parking issues plagued surrounding businesses
Even at 25% capacity, parking at Polar Park has already become an issue for the Canal District.

https://www.masslive.com/worcester/2021 ... -plan.html

[NYGFan_Section208]

I live in a neighboring town and have driven by plenty of times and was less than impressed by the look from the outside. All I could think is they must be trying to be environmentally friendly...but, I have not heard anything about that being touted...so it must just be ugly.

hunh, that's funny....Joe Castig said earlier that it was beautiful (just like they paid him to say it?)

[ramster]

[reef]

Great video !!

[RF1]

More problems in Worcester involving parking near Polar Park. First it was Canal District businesses who complained about lost revenues as customers were staying away during the park's opening home-stand. Seems customers wanted to avoid traffic and a parking shortage even with the capacity only allowed at 25% back in mid May. The city's solution to that is a proposal to extend parking rules later with a short time limit for on street spaces (would create more frequent turnover) in the Canal District which would help people that frequent the businesses there. This however would also force Woosox game fans to have to look elsewhere as the timespan limit would be less than an average game. Given parking was already an issue at a much reduced capacity, this will most certainly mean fans will be parking much further away. In addition to game attendees, this also greatly impacts the area's local residents who were used to parking on the street after coming home from work. The extended hour rules and short time frame limit would impact them as well and they are not happy. Many have complained to the local paper that the city doesn't care about them.

[RIFan]

I believe the new parking garage that's supposed to have about 500 spaces has yet to open. I know when the park opened they were saying it was delayed by COVID.

[RF1]

I believe the new parking garage that's supposed to have about 500 spaces has yet to open. I know when the park opened they were saying it was delayed by COVID.

Not just delayed, the garage's capacity was also reduced to 350 spaces. It is currently under construction and is expected to open later this year. It is however increasingly looking like it may not be available at all for this season which ends in early Sept.

[ramster]

[ramster]

[RhowdyRam02]

Naysayers' cries and every economic study ever done. Nobody says sports venues bring no economic development, just never as much as the team says it will and never enough to make the venue worth what the government pays for it

[RAMFAN]

Every economist knows that if you want a biotech facility you first have to get a $200 million AAA Ballpark

[ramster]

What is Rhode Island doing with the $200 million we saved?

[ramster]

[NYGFan_Section208]

Why the stick up the butt, KMac?

[RF1]

I would not want to live on the contaminated site of these new Worcester apartments. It was the longtime home to Wyman-Gordon which built heavy metal drop forged parts for the airplane industry there. I toured the plant in the mid 1980's and saw the hot molten steel being formed. In addition to wearing hard hats and safety glasses, we also had to wear safety ear muffs for protection as the sounds of the massive drop forge hammers was deafening.

As for KMac - he is not exactly objective when it come to the Worcester Red Sox. If I am not mistaken, his father in law, Terry Murray is a part owner. A truly reputable professional journalist with such a connection would include this disclaimer on everything they write concerning the team and its ballpark.

[Rhodymob05]

Kmac is making the point that RI should never make this mistake again because its costing Pawtucket and RI. The potential was there, and now its literally coming to fruition .......in another state. I heard some radio hosts talking about how the restaurants and bars are hoppin around the stadium and now more development is happening. RI is blind. This the RED SOX organization, not the stinkin Pirates. There will always be good players, successful seasons ect to sustain the interest for the WoSox.

[SGreenwell]

Kmac is making the point that RI should never make this mistake again because its costing Pawtucket and RI. The potential was there, and now its literally coming to fruition .......in another state. I heard some radio hosts talking about how the restaurants and bars are hoppin around the stadium and now more development is happening. RI is blind. This the RED SOX organization, not the stinkin Pirates. There will always be good players, successful seasons ect to sustain the interest for the WoSox.

I think there's a "honeymoon" period with all of these ballparks, and the cost isn't revealed until about 10 years down the line, when the payments are due and the sheen has worn off. The Pawsox were good for plenty of years, and the ballpark was renovated at various points, and the immediate area was never all that great.

If Worcester wanted to make some nice apartment buildings and renovate downtown, I'm sure they could have by just spending $70M - and they would also directly reap the rewards, instead of having to split with the ballpark entity - but there usually isn't political will to do that. The ROI on ballparks and stadiums is always poor, but you can rally popular support for it, which is why mayors and municipalities will continue to chase them.

[Seawrightspostgame]

The same projects in Pawtucket and around the proposed site in Providence are sprouting up without the stadium too.

[RF1]

The new Pawtucket MBTA station that is being built and set to open in 2022 will end up being a bigger development catalyst for the city than the Red Sox rejected baseball stadium.

[theblueram]

The new Pawtucket MBTA station that is being built and set to open in 2022 will end up being a bigger development catalyst for the city than the Red Sox rejected baseball stadium.

Even bigger than Wickford and TF Green?

[RF1]

The new Pawtucket MBTA station that is being built and set to open in 2022 will end up being a bigger development catalyst for the city than the Red Sox rejected baseball stadium.

Even bigger than Wickford and TF Green?

Would not be hard to beat either of them. While connecting the airport has some merit, the station at Wickford Junction should have had low priority. Neither of these stations have attracted daily commuters. I think there was some hope that people might use them to commute to downtown Providence but that never materialized and likely won't for a long time, if ever. Pawtucket however will attract daily commuters with the large bulk headed to Boston. It will probably even get some commuters into Providence as well given the high density and demographics near the station which while fully in Pawtucket is right near the Central Falls border. Car ownership is not as prevalent in this area and many now use the bus for transportation. The Pawtucket bus hub is moving to the new station and I expect those headed to Providence will opt for the five minute train ride over a 20+ minute bus ride with many stops.

As for development in Pawtucket, there are already proposals in the works in anticipation of the station opening. Many of the neighborhood's old mills are continuing to get converted into lofts including the current renovation of a mill on Barton Street directly across from the new station. There is even a $45M plan to build Dexter Commons, an entirely new construction six story 150 unit residential building a block away. Demo of a few old buildings to make room for it just took place. A project such as that would not be happening in downtown Pawtucket without the new train station. All of these new housing developments are being geared toward Boston professionals seeking cheaper rent. The commute to Boston from here would be about an hour making it reasonably feasible, something the Warwick and Wickford stations could not offer.

Dexter Street Commons plan takes shape
https://www.valleybreeze.com/2021-01-12 ... P9GEUApC71

The Pawtucket MBTA Station which is currently under construction and scheduled to open in 2022

[ramster]

I would not want to live on the contaminated site of these new Worcester apartments. It was the longtime home to Wyman-Gordon which built heavy metal drop forged parts for the airplane industry there. I toured the plant in the mid 1980's and saw the hot molten steel being formed. In addition to wearing hard hats and safety glasses, we also had to wear safety ear muffs for protection as the sounds of the massive drop forge hammers was deafening.

As for KMac - he is not exactly objective when it come to the Worcester Red Sox. If I am not mistaken, his father in law, Terry Murray is a part owner. A truly reputable professional journalist with such a connection would include this disclaimer on everything they write concerning the team and its ballpark.

So are you saying Massachusetts is building apartments, condos, office buildings and a stadium on contaminated land? How are they obtaining building permits to do this if the land is contaminated? Are you saying it wasn’t cleaned up properly?

[ramster]

The new Pawtucket MBTA station that is being built and set to open in 2022 will end up being a bigger development catalyst for the city than the Red Sox rejected baseball stadium.

Even bigger than Wickford and TF Green?

Would not be hard to beat either of them. While connecting the airport has some merit, the station at Wickford Junction should have had low priority. Neither of these stations have attracted daily commuters. I think there was some hope that people might use them to commute to downtown Providence but that never materialized and likely won't for a long time, if ever. Pawtucket however will attract daily commuters with the large bulk headed to Boston. It will probably even get some commuters into Providence as well given the high density and demographics near the station which while fully in Pawtucket is right near the Central Falls border. Car ownership is not as prevalent in this area and many now use the bus for transportation. The Pawtucket bus hub is moving to the new station and I expect those headed to Providence will opt for the five minute train ride over a 20+ minute bus ride with many stops.

As for development in Pawtucket, there are already proposals in the works in anticipation of the station opening. Many of the neighborhood's old mills are continuing to get converted into lofts including the current renovation of a mill on Barton Street directly across from the new station. There is even a $45M plan to build Dexter Commons, an entirely new construction six story 150 unit residential building a block away. Demo of a few old buildings to make room for it just took place. A project such as that would not be happening in downtown Pawtucket without the new train station. All of these new housing developments are being geared toward Boston professionals seeking cheaper rent. The commute to Boston from here would be about an hour making it reasonably feasible, something the Warwick and Wickford stations could not offer.

Dexter Street Commons plan takes shape
https://www.valleybreeze.com/2021-01-12 ... P9GEUApC71

The Pawtucket MBTA Station which is currently under construction and scheduled to open in 2022

That Station was coming whether the PawSox left Rhode Island or not.
Sounds like Mattiello and Raimondo blew it even bigger that I thought knowing a train station was coming to Pawtucket.

[ramster]

Kmac is making the point that RI should never make this mistake again because its costing Pawtucket and RI. The potential was there, and now its literally coming to fruition .......in another state. I heard some radio hosts talking about how the restaurants and bars are hoppin around the stadium and now more development is happening. RI is blind. This the RED SOX organization, not the stinkin Pirates. There will always be good players, successful seasons ect to sustain the interest for the WoSox.

It’s a shame. Never had to happen.

[ramster]

Kmac is making the point that RI should never make this mistake again because its costing Pawtucket and RI. The potential was there, and now its literally coming to fruition .......in another state. I heard some radio hosts talking about how the restaurants and bars are hoppin around the stadium and now more development is happening. RI is blind. This the RED SOX organization, not the stinkin Pirates. There will always be good players, successful seasons ect to sustain the interest for the WoSox.

I think there's a "honeymoon" period with all of these ballparks, and the cost isn't revealed until about 10 years down the line, when the payments are due and the sheen has worn off. The Pawsox were good for plenty of years, and the ballpark was renovated at various points, and the immediate area was never all that great.

If Worcester wanted to make some nice apartment buildings and renovate downtown, I'm sure they could have by just spending $70M - and they would also directly reap the rewards, instead of having to split with the ballpark entity - but there usually isn't political will to do that. The ROI on ballparks and stadiums is always poor, but you can rally popular support for it, which is why mayors and municipalities will continue to chase them.

I’ll be going up to the new stadium in a couple of weeks to get a first hand look at the stadium and the surrounding area. I doubt I’ll come away as happy as many here that the PawSox are gone but I doubt it -

[SGreenwell]

Kmac is making the point that RI should never make this mistake again because its costing Pawtucket and RI. The potential was there, and now its literally coming to fruition .......in another state. I heard some radio hosts talking about how the restaurants and bars are hoppin around the stadium and now more development is happening. RI is blind. This the RED SOX organization, not the stinkin Pirates. There will always be good players, successful seasons ect to sustain the interest for the WoSox.

I think there's a "honeymoon" period with all of these ballparks, and the cost isn't revealed until about 10 years down the line, when the payments are due and the sheen has worn off. The Pawsox were good for plenty of years, and the ballpark was renovated at various points, and the immediate area was never all that great.

If Worcester wanted to make some nice apartment buildings and renovate downtown, I'm sure they could have by just spending $70M - and they would also directly reap the rewards, instead of having to split with the ballpark entity - but there usually isn't political will to do that. The ROI on ballparks and stadiums is always poor, but you can rally popular support for it, which is why mayors and municipalities will continue to chase them.

I’ll be going up to the new stadium in a couple of weeks to get a first hand look at the stadium and the surrounding area. I doubt I’ll come away as happy as many here that the PawSox are gone but I doubt it -

It's fine to be happy about it. But it's usually BS when ballpark officials say it's going to revitalize the surrounding neighborhood or be a huge economic boon to the state. They should be sold as what they are - amusements for the metro area, with poor ROIs, but a prestige thing for the area. I suspect they aren't, because "give us $50M to $250M in tax breaks to keep your sports team, even though we're billionaires" doesn't sell as well and won't get as much popular support.

[RF1]

I would not want to live on the contaminated site of these new Worcester apartments. It was the longtime home to Wyman-Gordon which built heavy metal drop forged parts for the airplane industry there. I toured the plant in the mid 1980's and saw the hot molten steel being formed. In addition to wearing hard hats and safety glasses, we also had to wear safety ear muffs for protection as the sounds of the massive drop forge hammers was deafening.

As for KMac - he is not exactly objective when it come to the Worcester Red Sox. If I am not mistaken, his father in law, Terry Murray is a part owner. A truly reputable professional journalist with such a connection would include this disclaimer on everything they write concerning the team and its ballpark.

So are you saying Massachusetts is building apartments, condos, office buildings and a stadium on contaminated land? How are they obtaining building permits to do this if the land is contaminated? Are you saying it wasn’t cleaned up properly?

It is being remediated to the extent that it can be legally built upon. I myself however would still choose not to live on such a site given its history.

This was written by Worcester media about the site as recently as 2014:

“The Wyman-Gordon Co. site on Madison Street, near Kelley Square, is a terrible eyesore, a hazardous waste cesspool and a detriment to the historic Green Island/Canal District area of the city,” said district 5 city Councilor Gary Rosen. “While still seeing some manufacturing use, it has languished in limbo much too long.”

The proposed apartment site on the Wyman-Gordon land was actually larger than where they built the new ballpark and had early on being bandied about by some for it. I think the WooSox owners decided against it based on concerns that, given its industrial past, unforeseen issues might arise and slow the process and add cost.

[ramster]

I would not want to live on the contaminated site of these new Worcester apartments. It was the longtime home to Wyman-Gordon which built heavy metal drop forged parts for the airplane industry there. I toured the plant in the mid 1980's and saw the hot molten steel being formed. In addition to wearing hard hats and safety glasses, we also had to wear safety ear muffs for protection as the sounds of the massive drop forge hammers was deafening.

As for KMac - he is not exactly objective when it come to the Worcester Red Sox. If I am not mistaken, his father in law, Terry Murray is a part owner. A truly reputable professional journalist with such a connection would include this disclaimer on everything they write concerning the team and its ballpark.

So are you saying Massachusetts is building apartments, condos, office buildings and a stadium on contaminated land? How are they obtaining building permits to do this if the land is contaminated? Are you saying it wasn’t cleaned up properly?

It is being remediated to the extent that it can be legally built upon. I myself however would still choose not to live on such a site given its history.

This was written by Worcester media about the site as recently as 2014:

“The Wyman-Gordon Co. site on Madison Street, near Kelley Square, is a terrible eyesore, a hazardous waste cesspool and a detriment to the historic Green Island/Canal District area of the city,” said district 5 city Councilor Gary Rosen. “While still seeing some manufacturing use, it has languished in limbo much too long.”

The proposed apartment site on the Wyman-Gordon land was actually larger than where they built the new ballpark and had early on being bandied about by some for it. I think the WooSox owners decided against it based on concerns that, given its industrial past, unforeseen issues might arise and slow the process and add cost.

I’m surprised the site was legally built upon based on what you are saying. Sounds like lawsuits waiting to happen down the road. Government failed us in approving this build on a “cesspool”.

[Rhodymob05]

Have you also seen the development around Fenway Park recently? More development there then RI as a state.