What is Wrong with URI Athletics??

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 10 years ago

The firing of the women's basketball program and the fact that the one bright spot of recent years in the URI Athletics programs, baseball, is having a terrible season (6-21 to date) prompted me to look more closely at the overall URI performance in key sports over the last several years. What I found is not only bad, it is abysmal. I looked at eight sports over the last four years, a total of 32 records, and found only 4 winning seasons!!! I can understand that bad seasons do happen, but why so many and for so long?

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

Obs, I really think it's been that money has been so tight for so long, that there just isn't enough support at all levels to be successful.

You get what you pay for. URI has been cutting some of these programs to the bone. The coaching staffs in many cases reflect this.

If you won't or can't pay for good coaches, you won't get them. If the budget isn't there, you can't recruit even if you are a good coach either.

I think this was the case with Inglese. She might have been a good coach, but if you don't have the money to recruit the talent needed, you can't win.

URI desperately needs the men's basketball and football programs to start winning, to bring in needed revenue to improve ALL the athletic programs at the school. Otherwise, all those other programs are just going to continue to wither and die.

I would also think that whatever money URI is getting for sports, is focused even more than usual on the 2 main sports, at the expense of the others. It has to be done right now.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 10 years ago

Next season will be big to change this impression. Hurley's Rams should be taking another step forward into winning season-ville and football is poised to look and perform better with all the talent transferring in under the new coaching staff.

Women's basketball can't get any worse, can it?

Baseball is very early in the season, but they may be down from the last few years.

Can we pencil in another A10 championship for our track stars?

Should we expect an uptick in performance following the opening of the RFSAC?

hrstrat57 · Unread post by **hrstrat57** » 10 years ago

Rhode Island men's and women's hockey have had 10 years of consistent excellence and have great facilities.

Oh wait not part of the athletic department.

Never mind.....

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 10 years ago

Obadiah,
Which 8 sports did you select over the past 4 years?
Do you have any information regarding the Athletic Budget over the past years? It would be interesting to see the size of the Athletic Budget over the past 10 years and how that compares to inflation.

While we can say it is lack of money I'd like to see a historical comparison.

For men's basketball I disagree that money has been the issue. The issue which has been repeated on this Board adnausium:
1- Great, great, great hire of Jim Harrick by Robert Coruthers
2- Terrible management of scenario where Harrick chose to go to UGA then wanted to return and Petro refused him. WTF
3- Terrible hire by Petro in Jerry D
4- Hire of Jim B - average career record before URI; average or below record at URI - why should anyone be surprised?
5- 10 Year Contract for Jim B because we were afraid of losing him to Virginia Tech
6- 12 years of Jim B at lucrative salary
7- Finally cut him loose
8- Great hire in Dan Hurley Program clearly on upswing

Football
1 Terrible decision to drop from CAA to NEC
2 Reversed decision after seeing it was a bad move
3 Recruiting hurt badly by move to NEC
4 Great hire of new Head Coach and excellent Assistant Coaches most all with BCS experience

Women's Basketball
1 Horrible record for past 5 years under Inglesse
2 Finally let contract expire and will not renew
3 Tough to recruit when you have a poor performing Coach, let her contract run out, basically a lame duck position for recruiting
4 Huge huge opportunity for URI to hire a good Women's HC - pair up the Men's and Women's programs with great HC's

The Men's Basketball, Football and Women's Basketball teams all stayed with Coaches for too long with poor records

URI needs to select better HC's in the first place and then pull the trigger faster when they don't produce as expected.

Question is does the performance of hiring HC's and firing HC's as we have seen for these 3 main sports extend down through the entire program of sports? The evidence of poor performance tends to indicate it just might.

Problem I have with the money excuse is that it becomes just that - an excuse.

Unread post by **TruePoint** » 10 years ago

As a big supporter of Thorr and his athletic department, I'm willing to buy that he inherited a mess and that it took a while to undo some of that mess because his hands were tied financially, and that there is a lag effect with what Obadiah highlighted with respect to their root causes. However, we need to see some results soon. I think and hope ATP is right with how he sees things trending, and if he is then I think it validates my perception of what has caused the recent poor performance.

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 10 years ago

If you think football is ever going to generate money for the department as a whole, you're way off. Football is a massive money loser at the FCS level and any money they do bring in from things like buy games that will be harder and harder to schedule will need to go toward improving Meade Stadium. We have one money generating sport and that sport hasn't been bringing in enough money since 2000.

Hopefully the new athletic center can bump up performance across the board, but until the men's basketball team starts filling the Ryan Center and bringing in some sweet, sweet NCAA tournament money we're going to have to be pretty much perfect when it comes to hiring coaches to be a solid department.

Puck Frovidence · Unread post by **Puck Frovidence** » 10 years ago

hrstrat57 wrote:Rhode Island men's and women's hockey have had 10 years of consistent excellence and have great facilities.

Oh wait not part of the athletic department.

Never mind.....

You are correct sir!

One thing that's definitely true is that URI Athletics are under-promoted, under-marketed both to students and in the state. The communications department does a terrific job but they're chronically understaffed, and need to add someone who has experience resuscitating DI school spirit in athletics.

Also, am I the only one who feels like the current media deal with Cox is a huge albatross around our neck? It cuts off coverage for a huge portion of the state that has Fios, DirectTV, Dish or OTA service. The online stream is a good alternative for diehards, but doesn't help attract casual/new fans, and isn't something you can easily have the bartender throw on the big screen. Everyone I know is flocking away from Cox in droves... and that means limited access to Rams on TV in several sports.

RhowdyRam02 · Unread post by **RhowdyRam02** » 10 years ago

As someone who's only had Cox or Comcast when I lived in MA, do FIOS, DirectTV, or Dish have similar services where they produce and broadcast games like Cox has done for us? The ideal scenario would be to have 6, 10, or 12 do what Cox has done for us, which I doubt they could do with their network obligations, but absent that I think the arrangement we have with Cox is the best we can hope for.

rodfromcranston · Unread post by **rodfromcranston** » 10 years ago

Speaking of Cox, it's funny, they have a load of PC shows in the On Demand
section, and not one of URI.
Why not hockey? It's a natural here in RI.

Unread post by **ATPTourFan** » 10 years ago

For now, Cox is the only network that is willing to PROVIDE coverage of our teams for our mutual benefit.

If there was another regional sports network begging for URI hoops content (the games not picked up by the national A10 contract), I'm sure Athletics would look at it.

Puck Frovidence · Unread post by **Puck Frovidence** » 10 years ago

Striking a deal with one of the local network affiliates is ideal, because they have guaranteed carriage on all systems and broadcast OTA. Specifically, CW, IonTV, and MyRITV would be the best options, because they have a smaller amount of network mandated programming than the big four (although a subchannel like MeTV or CoolTV would work too). CW28 broadcasts syndicated basketball and football (and a CW affiliate in CT has produced UConn/QU/SHU hockey games before, so it can be done). MyRITV has carried Brown basketball in the recent past, as well as some MA high school football.

URI doesn't really need a network to produce these games either. If the (relatively minimal) equipment necessary to produce a high quality online stream were owned by the athletic department, we could produce our own games and take sole profit off of the online streams (obviously we'd have to pick up the tab for announcers/producers/operators, but an army of credit-earning interns could help pick up the slack). Then we could broadcast whatever sports/event we wanted in the highest possible quality. Once you have the games available, finding someone to carry becomes easier.

Quinnipiac (wayyyy smaller school), for example, produces their own games and had their coverage broadcast by NESN several times this year. If a network wants to pay for TV rights, great. If not, URI can buy the air time and pay for it with the commercials during the game.

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 10 years ago

There is not a sufficient commitment to excellence in athletics at URI. Not enough money and resources are committed to athletics and mediocrity and even downright failure is tolerated and accepted as that's the way it is. URI wants to field many sports programs just for the sake of having them. It has little interest in actually succeeding in them. This attitutude permeates URI at all levels as it not soley found just in athletics. It is a university wide problem.

Rhody4012016 · Unread post by **Rhody4012016** » 10 years ago

Learfield has part of their company that deals with streams as well. They have it set up so the school has website to stream from via the schools athletic site. I don't know if URI will be one of those schools but it could/should happen. Having a local outlet carry us provides some benefit but add in the stream and people from outside of RI can watch the games.

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 10 years ago

ramster, I do not have any current or detail information on the current Athletics budget, but to answer your other question, here is my response:

In doing the analysis, I selected the eight sports which have the most national attention, have a clear cut won-loss record, and have gate receipts or at least have the potential of gate receipts. These sports are Men's and Women's basketball and soccer, football, baseball, softball, and volleyball. I did not include golf, swimming, cross country, track and field, and tennis and admittedly these sports are where URI has had some success.

In the last four seasons, for the key eight sports, I found only 4 winning seasons out 32 records - one in MBB, three in baseball. The cumulative win-loss record over the period is 284-542, a winning percentage of .344. (Note: baseball and softball schedules have yet to complete this season, but judging from results to date, they both will record losing seasons.) Most peer schools show winning percentages in like categories of around .500. Top schools in the BCS like UConn, show even higher winning percentages.

While marketing is a part of the total equation, it does not explain the high degree of losing at URI in key sports.

Puck Frovidence · Unread post by **Puck Frovidence** » 10 years ago

Recruiting is likely affected by the academic profile of the school as well, which is pretty middle of the pack nationally and bottom tier among the six New England flagships. URI itself struggles with funding, and the lack of state support necessitates more out of state students (now 40%) who can pay the OOS tuition and make up for budget shortfalls. This goes hand-in-hand with a loosening of GPA/SAT/etc requirements for said OOS applicants and quality of students/reputation suffers. Nearly half of incoming freshman need remedial help with writing, and they will neither take it if offered nor be forced to take it to progress. Can't risk them leaving and losing the money. That all doesn't help.

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 10 years ago

I don't get your point or correlation here. What are you saying that only good students are good athletes and URI gets bad students who are also lousy athletes?? Also, I thought the SAT scores of OOS students was higher than RI students. Not true??

Puck Frovidence · Unread post by **Puck Frovidence** » 10 years ago

No, I was saying that recruiting ability hinges not only on athletes looking for a winning program/go pro, but also the rep of the degree they may/may not receive. School reputation is one of the selling points, especially for sports where a "road to the pros" is not necessarily an option or lucrative (women's soccer, for instance, which exists professionally in this country only intermittently).

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 10 years ago

I get your point, I just don't think it's a significant factor. You could make the argument that some good athletes prefer a less strenuous school.

But again I think this is off the point as to what is wrong with URI Athletics. Let's take a look at other A-10 schools, for example, the two smallest schools with the smallest endowment and not elite schools - La Salle and St. Bona - and look at their current records similar to the URI eight. St. Bona in six sports (no football or volleyball) has a 69-86 record or .445, La Salle in seven sports (no football) is 75-110, .405. And then look at a state school, VCU, whose record in six sports (no football or softball) is 117-50, .700. URI in eight sports is 65-135, .311. Who do you want to compare your school to; two small Catholic schools or a another state school. How URI compares to peer institutions is the traditionally route. Again my concern is not the current year, but this bad record is true of at least the last four years. I haven't gone back further than that.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

Those records correlate to one thing: Money, or lack of it.

Look what VCU's success in basketball has likely meant to their other sports. Some of their NCAA money has filtered down to help finance their other sports programs. BB has to be their sole source of sports revenue, or close to it anyway.

More money means better facilities, can hire better coaches, better recruiting, and on and on and on.

URI's other sports will improve when the BB program starts producing more revenue, and some of that money is allocated to them.

The other thing, those schools mentioned don't have football. What is URI's annual football budget? 4 million plus [including scholarships]. That's a big nut to pay for, that those others don't have.

Things imo have already started to turn around. There's more money starting to come in from NCAA BB credits from the departed A10 schools, and credits from having so many league teams in the tourney the last couple of years.

At this point, I think that most of that money is currently going to upgrade BB and FB, but more of it should start finding it's way to other sports. Especially once BB finally decides to join the A10 Dance party soon.

Let's also hope football starts to help do it's share too. Football at URI will never make a profit, but maybe smaller financial losses are possible if they start winning.

Puck Frovidence · Unread post by **Puck Frovidence** » 10 years ago

Obadiah, I would argue that size of school or endowment aside, all three of those institutions (La Salle, Bona, VCU) have one important thing in common outside of athletics: Their endowment/student ratio is well above URI's. It comes to money all over, in academics and athletics, and I think both affect the attractiveness of the school for recruits.

Average endowment dollars per each student:
St Bonaventure $21,197/student
VCU $13,559
La Salle $11,658
URI $7,671

Obviously endowment isn't the same as athletics budget, but you can bet sports budgets will be a reflection of the school's overall financial situation.

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 10 years ago

Are you saying that St. Bona and LaSalle do better than URI because their per student endowment is better??? Are you saying that URI is less attractive to athletes and students than St Bona and La Salle. Are you saying that the 30% winning ratio at URI is perfectly understandable and acceptable given these financial stats and that being last in the A-10 is to be accepted? Have you forgotten that URI does get state support and St. Bona and LaSalle do not.

Puck Frovidence · Unread post by **Puck Frovidence** » 10 years ago

I'm saying URI is the poorest in resources per students of these four schools, I'm saying that the "state support" amounts to the lowest contribution for any New England flagship, and that URI's often dire economic situation has played a negative role in both academics and athletics.

I don't know if La Salle or St. Bona out-recruit URI, I do know that they've got more bucks per student in their coffers and they both rank higher in their regional category than URI does in it's national one for the US News Rankings.

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 10 years ago

Sorry Puck, whether it's your intention or not, you strongly make the implication with your comments that URI is not only the poorest school in the A-10, it is also the least highly regarded and these two factors produce a low winning percentage in eight key sports. So there is no surprise here. I assume that is your answer to my question what is wrong with URI Athletics?

Puck Frovidence · Unread post by **Puck Frovidence** » 10 years ago

I guess what I'm trying to say is that a lack of resources in general and state support specifically have hurt URI both athletically and academically, and that the subsequent hit to the school's reputation (for both winning and academic excellence) has had a knock-on effect for recruiting both high-achieving students and athletes as well as retaining excellent educators and coaches. So to me money is the biggest issue in multiple areas, and the stretch of losing shouldn't come as a great surprise.

Hal Kopp · Unread post by **Hal Kopp** » 10 years ago

OK,here is one observation-I live in Florida,big college sports state.
Look at the run Dayton had in the NCAA's. What inherent advantages could they possibly have over Rhody??? From location,facilities,name recognition,recruiting??

ramster · Unread post by **ramster** » 10 years ago

So if it is all about money that has been and continues to be the issue with all of URI Sports then that translates to mean that things will never improve because the money thing is not going to change.
The sky has fallen and URI Athletics can't get up.
I just don't buy the whole money thing

OBRAM · Unread post by **OBRAM** » 10 years ago

I was on campus yesterday, Saturday, April 11. It was a nice sunny April day. the campus was buzzing with people. There were lots of people at a spring football practice ( spring game is 4/19), and I think it was welcome day for incoming students or potential students. People were in the bookstore buying lots of Rhody gear, imagine if we had won a championship of some kind. URI seems to be an attractive school judging from all the activity on campus. What it needs are:
New Fines Arts building and auditorium, maybe with an IMAX movie theater in it, make the campus a go to place with many attractions.
New Engineering facilities.
Up to date Visitors Center.
Fieldturf football practice field.
Stands for the baseball field.
Football stadium - something like what Liberty University has, can be used for soccer, but not track in order to keep the fans close to the action.
Outside track.
New pool complex - and replace Tootell with a basketball practice facility
Updated Kingston Emporium area, something like a town village atmosphere.
Hotel, run by a private national chain.

Puck Frovidence · Unread post by **Puck Frovidence** » 10 years ago

Ramster, I definitely don't think it's a done deal! And I wouldn't have attended and supported (or certainly joined a forum about!) URI and Rhody Athletics if I didn't think the future was bright. I just think in looking at the problem we should be honest with where URI and the Rams are really at, and the reasons that got us there.

Rhody4012016 · Unread post by **Rhody4012016** » 10 years ago

Engineering facilities are on the way. And some of the other buildings need to be renovated. The Union is getting redone as well as Butterfield dining hall within the next 2 years. As well as some of the dorms should be getting redone over the summer. When it is nice out the campus is a completely different place then during the winter. President Dooley is trying to make this a better place but after such a long time under trying circumstances it is taking alot of time.

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 10 years ago

While I may agree with some of your money comments, Puck, I don't buy the argument that justifies the losing span in key sports. I get one or two years, but not a span of four years. Also the conference is made up of 10 private schools and you cannot tell me that a public school like URI, even poorly supported by the State, cannot keep up with some of these private schools, especially the smaller ones like St. Bona and La Salle.

As for your endowment comparison, every school handles their endowment differently and privates must fund new facilities using endowments or borrow with the endowments handling the borrowing costs. Publics are not faced with that situation. URI just broke ground on a new $70 million chemistry building which will be paid for by a bond issue with no impact on their endowment. If St. Bona needs a similar new building, they have to do themselves and their endowment and/or operating budget will be impacted by the construction costs. As an aside, the new chemistry building at Kingston will be beautiful and spectacular and nothing on the St. Bona campus comes close, so think again if you think URI lags on it's academic reputation and its ability to attract BB recruits or students; it certainly does not.

Obadiah · Unread post by **Obadiah** » 10 years ago

Great comments and ideas, OBRAM.

Seawrightspostgame · Unread post by **Seawrightspostgame** » 10 years ago

Good point, tons of buildings already have been redone. The new science? Quad? Is that what it is called? Those buildings are insane.

Lots of upgrades in terms of the academic buildings themselves.

I was also under the impression that academically uri is better in many respects than it was 10-20-30 years ago. Don't know statistics on that though.

rhodyrudder · Unread post by **rhodyrudder** » 10 years ago

Obadiah wrote:ramster, I do not have any current or detail information on the current Athletics budget, but to answer your other question, here is my response:

In doing the analysis, I selected the eight sports which have the most national attention, have a clear cut won-loss record, and have gate receipts or at least have the potential of gate receipts. These sports are Men's and Women's basketball and soccer, football, baseball, softball, and volleyball. I did not include golf, swimming, cross country, track and field, and tennis and admittedly these sports are where URI has had some success.

In the last four seasons, for the key eight sports, I found only 4 winning seasons out 32 records - one in MBB, three in baseball. The cumulative win-loss record over the period is 284-542, a winning percentage of .344. (Note: baseball and softball schedules have yet to complete this season, but judging from results to date, they both will record losing seasons.) Most peer schools show winning percentages in like categories of around .500. Top schools in the BCS like UConn, show even higher winning percentages.

While marketing is a part of the total equation, it does not explain the high degree of losing at URI in key sports.

So not a single team at URI is going to have a winning record this year?
And six of the eight teams haven't had a winning record in at least 4 years?
Wow.
That is just awful.

Taylor Swift · Unread post by **Taylor Swift** » 10 years ago

I thought the Union was kind of dumpy even back when I was a student 2002-2006. Glad to see they're going to renovate it. Campus is getting better and better. I'm so glad the pharmacy program has a new building. What they should do is turn the land behind Flagg Rd (facing north) into an area with a hotel, etc. as someone mentioned earlier. There is so much possibility and potential. The Emporium has tons of choices, but is in dire need of a facelift. Having a bigger CVs like the one on Main St might even help?

URI is consistently being put on national lists as "best ROI" , etc.. It's obviously a very desirable school, look at all the kids driving $50k cars on campus.

Hal Kopp · Unread post by **Hal Kopp** » 10 years ago

Taylor-spot on. URI is very attractive school. The problem is the people doing the selling.

OBRAM · Unread post by **OBRAM** » 10 years ago

URI's jewel are the handsome granite building along the Quad. Finally after 40 years the new science buildings have replaced the old bunker. It takes so long for things at URI. For about 20 years from 1974-1994 almost nothing changed. Now we see progress, but it is to slow for me, but progress non the less. Hopefully at some point the Fine Arts 1960's mistake can be transformed. If I was governor I would handle it.

Puck Frovidence · Unread post by **Puck Frovidence** » 10 years ago

rhodyrudder wrote:So not a single team at URI is going to have a winning record this year?
And six of the eight teams haven't had a winning record in at least 4 years?
Wow.
That is just awful.

URI Hockey has had a winning season every year for more than two decades. Coach Augustine has had 25 consecutive 20-win seasons, and a national championship. Women's Hockey finished #4 in the national tournament in 2014. There is a tradition of athletic excellence in URI's recent past and it is on the ice, at the Boss.

Rhody4012016 · Unread post by **Rhody4012016** » 10 years ago

And the sad part is players say they could get so much better if they actually recruited. Consistently in the top 25 too.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

All they need is a recruiting budget.

That means money. Maybe they can help raise some funds themselves.

It seems to me, that every dollar is going to BB and FB right now.

When those programs start winning, then everybody else will get some. Not until.

adam914 · Unread post by **adam914** » 10 years ago

rambone 78 wrote:All they need is a recruiting budget.

That means money. Maybe they can help raise some funds themselves.

It seems to me, that every dollar is going to BB and FB right now.

When those programs start winning, then everybody else will get some. Not until.

I'm pretty sure that football could go undefeated for the next 20 years and still lose money.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

True, but they would lose less....

What I meant was upgrading the FB program is going to cost money, lots of it. Whether it's salary for the coaches, lights and field turf, practice facilities, all of that and then some....

Seawrightspostgame · Unread post by **Seawrightspostgame** » 10 years ago

Our athletics will likely never bring any large profit. NHL is challenged to bring in big dollars let alone our CLUB hockey team.

Puck Frovidence · Unread post by **Puck Frovidence** » 10 years ago

Seawrightspostgame wrote:Our athletics will likely never bring any large profit. NHL is challenged to bring in big dollars let alone our CLUB hockey team.

NHL puts more asses in the seats than NBA, and the top HALF of NCAA DI hockey teams make money for their school.

As for the current team's "CLUB" status, ACHA DI is the highest level of competition at the collegiate level outside of varsity. Many schools with prominent athletic programs like Penn St., ASU, Arizona, Iowa, Illinois, play or have played at this level in the ACHA as a form of cost-containment. In addition, the ACHA has sent several players on to professional teams in it's short history. In basketball terms its somewhere between junior college and D3; not the highest out there, but not exactly beer-league either.

I think basketball and a (hypothetical) varsity hockey team could make money here, MBB really just needs to keep up with the exposure and win a few more games... can't see how FB will ever make money, but a better record and higher attendance might make the bleed easier to take.

Rhody4012016 · Unread post by **Rhody4012016** » 10 years ago

Puck isn't one of the captains in a high up D1 team from Rhode Island? That just makes this hurt even more.

Puck Frovidence · Unread post by **Puck Frovidence** » 10 years ago

Rhody4012016 wrote:Puck isn't one of the captains in a high up D1 team from Rhode Island? That just makes this hurt even more.

Yeah, Mac Bennett from Michigan is from Narragansett. He played in the national championship game as a freshman, and was a two-year captain before leaving for the NHL after the Wolverines bowed out in the B1G tournament this year (they came close to making the big dance anyway, but were eliminated by none other than former URI rival Penn State).

RI high schools are pumping out tons of great DI hockey talent, but it's going out of state or (ugh) to PC.

RF1 · Unread post by **RF1** » 10 years ago

rhodyrudder wrote: So not a single team at URI is going to have a winning record this year?
And six of the eight teams haven't had a winning record in at least 4 years?
Wow.
That is just awful.

Yes. It is absolutely pathetic.

Rhody4012016 · Unread post by **Rhody4012016** » 10 years ago

Yes that was the player I wasn't sure if it was Michigan or Minnesota. This just goes to show the level of talent coming out of RI. If URI could grab some of these players they will be a force in the ACHA. That is what kept them from beating ASU.

McRam · Unread post by **McRam** » 10 years ago

Hal Kopp wrote:OK,here is one observation-I live in Florida,big college sports state.
Look at the run Dayton had in the NCAA's. What inherent advantages could they possibly have over Rhody??? From location,facilities,name recognition,recruiting??

Hal, Get your point, from my perspective the biggest advantage is that

they have a large, extremely loyal, active and enthusiastic fan base. many travel many miles to watch them. The city of Dayton loves them.

rambone 78 · Unread post by **rambone 78** » 10 years ago

Compared to Rhody, in a small state where most people that live there don't even know where Kingston is.

The closest city loves you-know-who over us. A big disadvantage, I'd say.

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