KeaneyBlue - The URI Basketball Forum

I came to URI in 2003. I was an outsider who was a huge sports fan and pumped to root for URI's number one sport, men's hoops. I got to see some great games during my 4 years (Helenga hitting big 3's vs. PC, the St. Joe's Dalonte game, and the NIT finals with the bogus no trip foul vs. UNC) and I try my best to make it to at least one home game since I graduated (saw my first one this week vs. GM).

My fan history aside... Why does everyone one here have such a hatred for Jim Baron? I know the obvious reason is that we did not make the NCAA's (which I know is all of our goal, my chest will certainly be puffed out when the day finally comes) but I can 100% imagine worse scenarios then what Coach Baron gave us while he was here and what he left us when he was fired. We usually were competitive and never had an off the court issue. The retired number thred got me thinking as the feeling for Sr. seem to have carried over to Jimmy Jr. who I truly believe had he had a different last name would be a lot of Keany Blue members avatar on this very blog.

Maybe I am missing something? Can someone explain why we hate him so much?

Let's see.....how about the lowered expectations? The endless excuses.
The player's high school coaches, the travel, the refs, the schedule, the lack of infrastructure,
and everyone's favorite, the basketballs at Lasalle.
Never said what Bill Belichick said after Sunday's game,"I put a lot of the blame on myself.
I should have coached better."
Calling timeouts, spent arguing with refs, instead of coaching his team.
Then we have his interviews or endless coach speak. "It's parta da prociss", "Ya gotta hand it toem",
"Dey got a lota seenyiz", "I told em dey gotta put da bawl inda baskit!"
Now, on the court? How about three 20 loss seasons? How about more losses
than any coach in URI's 100 year basketball history? Never lost less than ten games.
How about the longest tenured coach
at URI since 1960 to not go to an NCAA? How about not beating a top 25 team in 11 years?
How about holding out his beat player, Will Daniels, vs. Creighton in the NIT, because he had
THREE fouls, IN THE SECOND HALF!!!?? How about his losing percentage in February and March, which marked his
annual year end collapse? How about being 18-2 and not making the NCAAs?
How about recruiting a player indicted in four first degree rape charges, another who was jailed on a
gun posession charge, and later charged with murder? How about the entire Holton fiasco.
He came here with a record of theft.
How about the APR situation, which left URI close to NCAA academic probation?
How about a player working as a bouncer.bartender while on scholarship?
How about having URI play in some unknown post season tournament, costing the school,
$35,000, just to get to his precious 20 wins? 1,200 fans showed up for that one.
Did I miss anything?

Well maybe you needed to see more games after you graduated.

I don't hate CFL, I hate myself because I fell for that big bumblefuck's schtick and I hate the previous administration for falling for his schtick. If my dullard brother knew he was a fraud why didn't the admin? I allowed myself to make and/or except excuses for glaring inadequacies. The man is a one trick pony, I fell for his getting on the mic and thanking us for our support and ignored his general coaching bumblefuckery. I'm not sure he made even one adjustment during a game in his whole time here. Mostly he was happy to be okay or mediocre and I Rumpelstiltskined for a decade. Everything else Rod covered.

Wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

He had teams other coaches could have won with - mostly when Jimmy was around who I think was his best recruiter along with pat Skerry. It took a long time for me to get on board with firing him, because I knew how tough it was to succeed in the A10 during his time here. The middle to bottom of our league got no respect, a lot of which had to do with the way the league was run. That said, his teams choked away opportunities every year and he allowed that predetermined destiny to rule his coaching career rather than rise above it, take some blame and fix the problems. Nice guy (until the end), ok coach, but not at the level we expect. Don't tell me as the fan to expect less and expect that I will still support the product

Hate is a strong word. I just thought he sucked.

I was never a fan of his cutting a player's scholarship early by telling the student, "we want to be a Final Four program and you're not a Final Four player." It was especially weak considering he couldn't get us into the tournament at all. Although maybe he meant Final Four of the NIT the whole time...

The other thing that got to me that hasn't been covered is the athletic center. When it was a bond initiative on the ballot I remember feeling like he didn't do enough publicly to get it passed, but he sure jumped on it fast as an excuse of why we couldn't compete and rode it as much as possible.

Yeah, hate is a strong word, I really don't hate anyone, myself and previous admin included. I do hate Micheal Vick, but he's sub-human and suffers a type of sociopathy I wish our society would stop revering.

Truth is I tried to keep CFL's firing professional in my head, not be so bitter about things, but the biggest issue I have with the man, which I didn't mention because it's speculative on my part, is that he appeared to use his son like a stack of poker chips. Not letting b baron off the hook for his own decisions, but father knows best and billy bounced after being "all in." I'm okay to move on really, don't need to bash baron to be satisfied, just got caught up in the thread title. I do still think he's a half decent guy and a bumbling coach that left our program in shambles.

Thank you all for the valid points.

Agreed with all above. Wouldn't say Hate, but certainly would say he did some major damage to the program 1) APR issues and 2) decade of mediocrity which has numbed the fan base.

I like Coach Baron as a person, but what he did in his final two years here with his players rubbed me the wrong way. He told a player who was a leader on the team, Stevie Mejia, he wasn't good enough and shipped him out. He then brought in players like Dan West, PJ Lockridge, Tashawn Mabry, and Jonathan Holton who were nothing more than thugs - in an attempt to save his program. These players decimated team chemistry and created an awful environment. In his last two years here Baron set the program back substantially, and we're still paying for it today.

Quite honestly, Jim Baron is the reason that I will hold off "fully" supporting Dan Hurley until he proves that he is a winner. I don't hate JB; I just have no respect for his ability as a D1 basketball coach. Too many URI fans give their full support to the basketball coach until he's gone - voluntarily or unvoluntarily. The more that JB bled out of URI financially, the more difficult it came for cash strapped URI to fire him with the blind faith boosters showed him. His teams faded every year while better coached teams improved over the course of the season. He believed in senior leadership - a D3 concept - that retarded the development of underclassmen. The most important mission of every university department is to push students to reach their full potential. JB got away with letting down student athletes year after year.

You shouldn't hate him, you should just be glad he's gone.

Because he didn't take the VTech job.....

I would direct my ire more at Carothers, Petro and the dumbass General Assembly. We live in a state that rewards mediocrity.

No BlueRam, the State punishes those who show initiative and rewards everyone else.

theblueram wrote:I would direct my ire more at Carothers, Petro and the dumbass General Assembly. We live in a state that rewards mediocrity.

Exactly - why others cant seem to understand this is hard to figure. Sure Baron was everything wrong as a coach and leader of a program as stated in this thread, but he was only able to destroy the program because he was empowered to do so by the URI Administration. The "hate" should not be directed at Baron, it should be directed at those responsible for him employement at URI. Heck, I actually envy Baron for being able to get paid his salary for so many years with limited results, how many here wouldnt do the same thing?

Imagine if Carothers hadn't retired?

As for Thorr, he probably regrets giving JB that extra year.

Both Thorr and Dooley possibly weren't aware of all the shenanigans going on in the program at the end of the Baron error. Until it all became public, that is.

Maybe they should have been, but that's all said and done now.

theblueram wrote:I would direct my ire more at Carothers, Petro and the dumbass General Assembly. We live in a state that rewards mediocrity.

Bingo. Don't hate the man. Hate the powers at large for falling for him and his agents tricks, especially after the Va Tech scheme.

"Sometimes we want to believe something so badly that we allow ourselves to be taken advantage of." -Aaron Powell

Why do we waste so much time talking about him?

theblueram wrote:I would direct my ire more at Carothers, Petro and the dumbass General Assembly. We live in a state that rewards mediocrity.

It drove me nuts seeing a banner to honor Carothers in the Ryan Center. I was very happy to see it not up there this season.

'74, I thought we collectively moved on, however the question was raised and the almost healed scab was picked at again.....

Because he always plays the victim.

Billyboy78 wrote:Hate is a strong word. I just thought he sucked.

That sums it up nicely.

Because even after he was fired, he was STILL making excuses!

"Because it was a rebuilding year and we lost so many seniors, you know, I thought there possibly could be a chance, but you know, Thorr had to do what he did and Dr. Dooley and I want to thank them for the opportunity, and it was a great run. We won 109 games the last five years prior to this year, we went to six post-seasons, we graduated all the players and I wanted to get a chance to thank the people of Rhode Island and the fans, the alumni, the community, the children, the student body, and it's been a fabulous experience."

We all know that you can't win without seenyaz.
Fortunately, this high school thinking is in the past with most coaches.

I love how he also references the "six post-seasons" as if we were a perennial tournament team. Earth to Jimbo -nobody cares about the NIT (or CBI for that matter), unless you win the whole damn thing of course...which we never did.

Regarding your first Post Rod, why don't you just say how you really feel, HA HA! Loved it. That about sums it up,HUH? Couldn't have said it better.

Thanks, Luke. Did I leave anything out?
I did! Running Troy Wiley, Dustin Hellenga, and Chris Holm off the team.
Guess they weren't Final Four caliber players.

rodfromcranston wrote:Thanks, Luke. Did I leave anything out?
I did! Running Troy Wiley, Dustin Hellenga, and Chris Holm off the team.
Guess they weren't Final Four caliber players.

I think you did Rod. Didn't he show up at his first event wearing a sweaty warm up suit?

Hellenga was a wild pony, but he could shoot.

Could have used him his senior year. Tough player.

rodfromcranston wrote:Thanks, Luke. Did I leave anything out?
I did! Running Troy Wiley, Dustin Hellenga, and Chris Holm off the team.
Guess they weren't Final Four caliber players.

He graduated all his players, except all of the ones who didn't graduate because he booted them from the team.

...and that still hurts our APR, which he probably had no idea about.

Plus, he doesn't speak French.

rodfromcranston wrote:Thanks, Luke. Did I leave anything out?
I did! Running Troy Wiley, Dustin Hellenga, and Chris Holm off the team.
Guess they weren't Final Four caliber players.

He didn't run Wiley off the team. Wiley barely made it through the season without flunking off. Dustin was a good guy; he hung out with a lot of the same people I did but a lot of his off-court stuff didn't fly.
I liked Jim as a person. Had a couple off-the-record conversations with him and while I figured he never knew anything about me, he knew more than I realized. As a reporter he wasn't the best because he didn't play the game - he hated doing season preview stuff when I was just looking for generic quotes to get a quick 700 words done - but he'd never just shut down. He gave a lot of boring answers because he got asked a lot of boring questions and follow-ups were rare. The only time he was really challenged in the media room he'd come back with good stuff. There weren't a lot of people who wanted to challenge him - or Danny now, for that matter.
The one thing I've never liked about the CFL bashing is no one ever offers solutions for the so-called problems outside of generic things that any idiot would do. "He needs to recruit better!" Well no shit. It's not exactly easy to get Top 50 talent to come to nowhere Rhode Island where they might be on national TV once.
I hope the same thing doesn't happen with Danny. My only gripe with him as been his end-of-the-game play calling, which has looked very Baron-esque until the deep pass to Gil the other day, which was awesome. Everything else has been dribble, high screen and go. It's a CFL play.

EricRueb wrote:

rodfromcranston wrote:Thanks, Luke. Did I leave anything out?
I did! Running Troy Wiley, Dustin Hellenga, and Chris Holm off the team.
Guess they weren't Final Four caliber players.

He didn't run Wiley off the team. Wiley barely made it through the season without flunking off. Dustin was a good guy; he hung out with a lot of the same people I did but a lot of his off-court stuff didn't fly.
I liked Jim as a person. Had a couple off-the-record conversations with him and while I figured he never knew anything about me, he knew more than I realized. As a reporter he wasn't the best because he didn't play the game - he hated doing season preview stuff when I was just looking for generic quotes to get a quick 700 words done - but he'd never just shut down. He gave a lot of boring answers because he got asked a lot of boring questions and follow-ups were rare. The only time he was really challenged in the media room he'd come back with good stuff. There weren't a lot of people who wanted to challenge him - or Danny now, for that matter.
The one thing I've never liked about the CFL bashing is no one ever offers solutions for the so-called problems outside of generic things that any idiot would do. "He needs to recruit better!" Well no shit. It's not exactly easy to get Top 50 talent to come to nowhere Rhode Island where they might be on national TV once.
I hope the same thing doesn't happen with Danny. My only gripe with him as been his end-of-the-game play calling, which has looked very Baron-esque until the deep pass to Gil the other day, which was awesome. Everything else has been dribble, high screen and go. It's a CFL play.

Well, Rueb, thanks for the advise. The thing that has changed is the program. Dan knows it. If he doesn't win, meaning NCAA tournament, well he gave his best. The pathetic endorsement of Baron was just that. Pathetic. I really could give a shit if Tiny Tim was coaching here and got us to the tournament. The power and money is with the alums who are going to fund this thing. Apathy set in with Baron. I cherish my dollars a bit more and I think many now realize that apathy buys nothing.

theblueram wrote:

EricRueb wrote:

rodfromcranston wrote:Thanks, Luke. Did I leave anything out?
I did! Running Troy Wiley, Dustin Hellenga, and Chris Holm off the team.
Guess they weren't Final Four caliber players.

He didn't run Wiley off the team. Wiley barely made it through the season without flunking off. Dustin was a good guy; he hung out with a lot of the same people I did but a lot of his off-court stuff didn't fly.
I liked Jim as a person. Had a couple off-the-record conversations with him and while I figured he never knew anything about me, he knew more than I realized. As a reporter he wasn't the best because he didn't play the game - he hated doing season preview stuff when I was just looking for generic quotes to get a quick 700 words done - but he'd never just shut down. He gave a lot of boring answers because he got asked a lot of boring questions and follow-ups were rare. The only time he was really challenged in the media room he'd come back with good stuff. There weren't a lot of people who wanted to challenge him - or Danny now, for that matter.
The one thing I've never liked about the CFL bashing is no one ever offers solutions for the so-called problems outside of generic things that any idiot would do. "He needs to recruit better!" Well no shit. It's not exactly easy to get Top 50 talent to come to nowhere Rhode Island where they might be on national TV once.
I hope the same thing doesn't happen with Danny. My only gripe with him as been his end-of-the-game play calling, which has looked very Baron-esque until the deep pass to Gil the other day, which was awesome. Everything else has been dribble, high screen and go. It's a CFL play.

Well, Rueb, thanks for the advise. The thing that has changed is the program. Dan knows it. If he doesn't win, meaning NCAA tournament, well he gave his best. The pathetic endorsement of Baron was just that. Pathetic. I really could give a shit if Tiny Tim was coaching here and got us to the tournament. The power and money is with the alums who are going to fund this thing. Apathy set in with Baron. I cherish my dollars a bit more and I think many now realize that apathy buys nothing.

What advice?
If people want to hate Baron, that's fine; I just don't understand it. I don't think he deserves undying praise, but he wasn't as bad as some make him out to be.
What's the window with Danny before everyone flips? Three years? Four? Because if they win 17 games this year, 20 next and then don't make the tourney, is everyone going to call for his head?

Probably..... Another extended rebuild will most likely result in a restless fan base; fair? Probably not....

This thread, even thou I just extended it, should die a silent death, nothing good will come of it....

Yes. 4 years is going to about do it. Come year 5 if this is not a tournament team, then we need to move on.

Put this to bed.

Good night, Billy, Rod, Ram67……..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp7_u0kcQRo

Since you quoted me in your post, I assume much of it was aimed at me.
Someone began a thread, and I gave my feelings on CFL.
MY FEELINGS, backed up by facts. You want to deny me that?
Too bad, Don't read my posts.
My solution to CFL was always the same. Fire his ass! Is that simple enough for you?
As for TV, we've been on ESPN, CBS Sports and NBC Sports this year. Nobody can recruit here?
Bullshit! People like Tim O'Shea and Baron make those claims.
I'm happy Preston Murphy and Dan Hurley don't feel that way.
Maybe you have a typical URI /Rhode Island inferiority complex, but don't paint everyone
with that brush.
Oh, and Baron had problems with Wiley from day one. He had plenty of academic train wrecks,
who managed to stick around. But I forgot, "I graduated all my players".
Except the ones he didn't like.

Rod, I was mainly just quoting you for the guys you mentioned. I respect your opinion. I'm just not gonna crush a guy who was three or four wins away from being beloved in these parts.
And I hope Danny is around for more than four if he doesn't get in. Mid Majors have much more success maintaining coaches, not recycling them.

11 years with CFL isn't exactly a revolving door of personnel turnover.
Longest tenured coach at URI without an NCAA. Fact.

rod, while I most certainly agree with you on Baron, I have to say I was more a supporter of his in the early years and did not have your foresight on him. Baron inherited a mess from Jerry D and Dan Hurley inherited a mess from Jim Baron, so the question is who inherited the worse situation??

Jim Baron in his first season had a record of 8-20, 4-12 in conference games. In that season, the Rams lost many games by margins in the high teens to over twenty points.

In Baron’s second season, the first in Ryan, the team record improved to 20-11, 11-5 in conference. The season was marked by the opening win over USC, a win over PC at the Dunk, the record crowd of 8,121 that attended the Pittsburgh game, and a sweep of both UMass games. Rams got an invitation to the NIT and hosted the first two games, the first a win over Seton Hall before 5,995, and the second a loss to Temple before 7,214.

You know Hurley's first season and his second to date.

And those are also facts.

Having bad seasons is one thing. But, like others here, I'm sick and tired of being on life support so often and having to be bailed out (resurrected) by new coaches, instant players, etc.
Baron did a good job in his second year. If he had left then for Va. Tech, this thread wouldn't exist.

Reub is correct in saying that there are probably 4-5 games had they gone differently his 11 year legacy would be looked upon much differently.

EricRueb wrote:He didn't run Wiley off the team. Wiley barely made it through the season without flunking off. Dustin was a good guy; he hung out with a lot of the same people I did but a lot of his off-court stuff didn't fly.
I liked Jim as a person. Had a couple off-the-record conversations with him and while I figured he never knew anything about me, he knew more than I realized. As a reporter he wasn't the best because he didn't play the game - he hated doing season preview stuff when I was just looking for generic quotes to get a quick 700 words done - but he'd never just shut down. He gave a lot of boring answers because he got asked a lot of boring questions and follow-ups were rare. The only time he was really challenged in the media room he'd come back with good stuff. There weren't a lot of people who wanted to challenge him - or Danny now, for that matter.
The one thing I've never liked about the CFL bashing is no one ever offers solutions for the so-called problems outside of generic things that any idiot would do. "He needs to recruit better!" Well no shit. It's not exactly easy to get Top 50 talent to come to nowhere Rhode Island where they might be on national TV once.
I hope the same thing doesn't happen with Danny. My only gripe with him as been his end-of-the-game play calling, which has looked very Baron-esque until the deep pass to Gil the other day, which was awesome. Everything else has been dribble, high screen and go. It's a CFL play.

Two of the biggest problems people had with him were his constant stream of excuses and his complete inability to say coaching was an issue after losses. And there was a very easy fix for that. He should have been more accountable.

I don't hate Baron. Before his first game as coach I was involved in running a pep rally type event in the Ram's Den and he was very gracious with his time. That was my only personal interaction with him, so on a personal level I'd have to say I'm mostly positive on him. On a coaching level I dislike him greatly. I was never high on the hire and felt he was allowed to stay on as coach too long, but those aren't issues with him, those are issues with the administration. My main issue with Baron is this narrative that he loves to cultivate that he's a stand up coach that graduated all his guys and ran a program the right way. Well there were plenty of guys that didn't graduate, the program was a mess at the end of his time here, and there were always excuses of why we couldn't do better.