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Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 4:00 pm
by NYGFan_Section208
Jersey77 wrote: 1 year ago

Creighton center Ryan Kalkbrenner also returning.
No one messes with the Godfather...?

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:43 pm
by Jdrums#3
The Godfather made him an offer he couldn’t refuse.

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:58 pm
by SGreenwell
Godfather's Pizza is our favorite cheap chain pizza. They have a decent buffalo chicken pizza, as well as monkey bread. Somewhat surprising they're in the NIL game, but I think they're more midwest / central U.S., so it kind of makes sense.

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 10:59 pm
by ramster
Creighton Pizza promo

7AAC34D6-6F13-4576-964C-BD007C341BB7.png

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2023 11:02 pm
by ramster
Tie to Godfather’s Pizza is the CEO

485E5523-E6A9-4136-A0EA-B46EFA57E9A4.jpeg

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:10 pm
by RhowdyRam02

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:42 pm
by rjv
No surprise there!!!!
NIL is having a major negative impact on the A10 and I believe it is going to get worse.

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2023 7:22 pm
by NYGFan_Section208
so...average top 3 players on each A10 team get $35K? If that's the case, shouldn't be that expensive to get competitive...

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 3:05 pm
by Jdrums#3
Just an fyi as I am not sure if anyone posted this prior but, per a 6/9/23 story by Ross Dellenger of Sports Illustrated, the Chief Counsel of the IRS sent out a memo stating donations to NIL collectives are not tax exempt.

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:04 pm
by NYGFan_Section208
Jdrums#3 wrote: 11 months ago Just an fyi as I am not sure if anyone posted this prior but, per a 6/9/23 story by Ross Dellenger of Sports Illustrated, the Chief Counsel of the IRS sent out a memo stating donations to NIL collectives are not tax exempt.
Ooh...change-gamer? (Not sure why anyone thought they would be, but....y'never know)

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 6:13 pm
by theblueram
NYGFan_Section208 wrote: 1 year ago so...average top 3 players on each A10 team get $35K? If that's the case, shouldn't be that expensive to get competitive...
So $35k NIL and $35k tuition and fees. $70k. If they suck they are getting booed and that is a fact.

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 8:39 pm
by RIFan
They are getting paid…not amateurs anymore, I suppose they will be treated as such.

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 9:22 pm
by NYGFan_Section208
My guess is that, not every guy is getting paid. Can the non-paid get booed, too?
Will that be a stat in the 'program'* sheet of paper that lists the players, that I make into a paper airplane? Add another column after weight, "NILDO", and if it's none, take creative license... 'squat', 'jack', ''lower case 'nil'", "NIL-no."etc....

*Little did I know that my actual "programs" (and I do have a bunch) from 2015-2017ish...would be the end of an era...

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2023 11:43 pm
by LoveThoseRams
NYGFan_Section208 wrote: 11 months ago
Jdrums#3 wrote: 11 months ago Just an fyi as I am not sure if anyone posted this prior but, per a 6/9/23 story by Ross Dellenger of Sports Illustrated, the Chief Counsel of the IRS sent out a memo stating donations to NIL collectives are not tax exempt.
Ooh...change-gamer? (Not sure why anyone thought they would be, but....y'never know)
Not tax deduction unless it is used as advertising for a business.

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 6:51 pm
by RIFan
From todays projo: Saudi Arabia has used its vast financial resources to ingrain itself in Western sports; which league will it target next?

Possibly college football and basketball…

https://www.providencejournal.com/story ... 330586007/

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:29 pm
by Jdrums#3
RIFan wrote: 11 months ago From todays projo: Saudi Arabia has used its vast financial resources to ingrain itself in Western sports; which league will it target next?

Possibly college football and basketball…

https://www.providencejournal.com/story ... 330586007/
Thanks for posting, RIFan. Interesting read. The Saudi’s could really cause some major disruption to our sports landscape if some controls are not put in place. We shall see.

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:27 pm
by rjv
Student Athlete is becoming extinct!!!!

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:44 am
by Rhody15

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2023 6:19 pm
by Ramulous
I have been saying this same thing since they invented NIL.

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2023 8:44 pm
by RIFan
Rod Tidwell said it best “Show me the money!”

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2023 11:47 pm
by Blue Man
Mike Locksley is making $5.5M this year and by the end of his current contract he’ll be making $6.7M.

If he’s so concerned why doesn’t he break off a tiny piece of that and pay the kids that supposedly will only come for cash.

He’s 23-54 in his career, a majority of that before the big bad NIL came for his super awesome recruiting classes.

I’ll never understand these absurdly overcompensated coaches who have their guys, especially football players, literally putting their bodies on the line, and they have the balls to say there’s an issue with those kids getting their share of the money they earn.

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 3:02 pm
by rjsuperfly66
Blue Man wrote: 11 months ago Mike Locksley is making $5.5M this year and by the end of his current contract he’ll be making $6.7M.

If he’s so concerned why doesn’t he break off a tiny piece of that and pay the kids that supposedly will only come for cash.

He’s 23-54 in his career, a majority of that before the big bad NIL came for his super awesome recruiting classes.

I’ll never understand these absurdly overcompensated coaches who have their guys, especially football players, literally putting their bodies on the line, and they have the balls to say there’s an issue with those kids getting their share of the money they earn.
Because in many of these situations, the player hasn't earned anything. As far as I'm concerned, a players max compensation shouldn't be determined by a donors wallet. I also don't think it's fair to cap NIL because obviously Livvy Dunne and Joe the benchwarmer shouldn't be treated equal. Make a formula that using professional metrics for contact (social media following) allows for players to actually be paid what they are worth, something like that...

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 7:02 pm
by bigappleram
rjsuperfly66 wrote: 11 months ago
Blue Man wrote: 11 months ago Mike Locksley is making $5.5M this year and by the end of his current contract he’ll be making $6.7M.

If he’s so concerned why doesn’t he break off a tiny piece of that and pay the kids that supposedly will only come for cash.

He’s 23-54 in his career, a majority of that before the big bad NIL came for his super awesome recruiting classes.

I’ll never understand these absurdly overcompensated coaches who have their guys, especially football players, literally putting their bodies on the line, and they have the balls to say there’s an issue with those kids getting their share of the money they earn.
Because in many of these situations, the player hasn't earned anything. As far as I'm concerned, a players max compensation shouldn't be determined by a donors wallet. I also don't think it's fair to cap NIL because obviously Livvy Dunne and Joe the benchwarmer shouldn't be treated equal. Make a formula that using professional metrics for contact (social media following) allows for players to actually be paid what they are worth, something like that...
If it was based on actual marketing value 99.8% of college athletes wouldn’t make more than a couple thousand dollars.

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 7:22 pm
by rjsuperfly66
bigappleram wrote: 11 months ago
rjsuperfly66 wrote: 11 months ago
Blue Man wrote: 11 months ago Mike Locksley is making $5.5M this year and by the end of his current contract he’ll be making $6.7M.

If he’s so concerned why doesn’t he break off a tiny piece of that and pay the kids that supposedly will only come for cash.

He’s 23-54 in his career, a majority of that before the big bad NIL came for his super awesome recruiting classes.

I’ll never understand these absurdly overcompensated coaches who have their guys, especially football players, literally putting their bodies on the line, and they have the balls to say there’s an issue with those kids getting their share of the money they earn.
Because in many of these situations, the player hasn't earned anything. As far as I'm concerned, a players max compensation shouldn't be determined by a donors wallet. I also don't think it's fair to cap NIL because obviously Livvy Dunne and Joe the benchwarmer shouldn't be treated equal. Make a formula that using professional metrics for contact (social media following) allows for players to actually be paid what they are worth, something like that...
If it was based on actual marketing value 99.8% of college athletes wouldn’t make more than a couple thousand dollars.
Which would be what they are worth, no?

Here is a very simple formula I would use...

Any player can make 10% of their social media followers monthly...

So a player with 100k followers can earn up to 10k per month, a player with 1 million followers $100k per month.

It semi-eliminates pay-for-play while not capping earnings.

To me something like that is players earning what they are actually worth.

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 8:55 pm
by Blue Man
rjsuperfly66 wrote: 11 months ago
bigappleram wrote: 11 months ago
rjsuperfly66 wrote: 11 months ago

Because in many of these situations, the player hasn't earned anything. As far as I'm concerned, a players max compensation shouldn't be determined by a donors wallet. I also don't think it's fair to cap NIL because obviously Livvy Dunne and Joe the benchwarmer shouldn't be treated equal. Make a formula that using professional metrics for contact (social media following) allows for players to actually be paid what they are worth, something like that...
If it was based on actual marketing value 99.8% of college athletes wouldn’t make more than a couple thousand dollars.
Which would be what they are worth, no?

Here is a very simple formula I would use...

Any player can make 10% of their social media followers monthly...

So a player with 100k followers can earn up to 10k per month, a player with 1 million followers $100k per month.

It semi-eliminates pay-for-play while not capping earnings.

To me something like that is players earning what they are actually worth.
So then the donors pay an Indian click farm to get a million bots to follow their players.

It is what it is. If coaches are so concerned than pay from your own pockets.

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2023 9:42 pm
by bigappleram
rjsuperfly66 wrote: 11 months ago
bigappleram wrote: 11 months ago
rjsuperfly66 wrote: 11 months ago

Because in many of these situations, the player hasn't earned anything. As far as I'm concerned, a players max compensation shouldn't be determined by a donors wallet. I also don't think it's fair to cap NIL because obviously Livvy Dunne and Joe the benchwarmer shouldn't be treated equal. Make a formula that using professional metrics for contact (social media following) allows for players to actually be paid what they are worth, something like that...
If it was based on actual marketing value 99.8% of college athletes wouldn’t make more than a couple thousand dollars.
Which would be what they are worth, no?

Here is a very simple formula I would use...

Any player can make 10% of their social media followers monthly...

So a player with 100k followers can earn up to 10k per month, a player with 1 million followers $100k per month.

It semi-eliminates pay-for-play while not capping earnings.

To me something like that is players earning what they are actually worth.
The more logical framework IMO is tying them to the revenue they generate - so a formulaic manner of sharing revs generated from ticket sales, media rights and merchandise. That is the crux of the argument. The NIL thing is all a work around bc in reality none of them (beyond a few outliers) have significant marketing value.

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2023 10:17 am
by SGreenwell
bigappleram wrote: 11 months ago
rjsuperfly66 wrote: 11 months ago
bigappleram wrote: 11 months ago

If it was based on actual marketing value 99.8% of college athletes wouldn’t make more than a couple thousand dollars.
Which would be what they are worth, no?

Here is a very simple formula I would use...

Any player can make 10% of their social media followers monthly...

So a player with 100k followers can earn up to 10k per month, a player with 1 million followers $100k per month.

It semi-eliminates pay-for-play while not capping earnings.

To me something like that is players earning what they are actually worth.
The more logical framework IMO is tying them to the revenue they generate - so a formulaic manner of sharing revs generated from ticket sales, media rights and merchandise. That is the crux of the argument. The NIL thing is all a work around bc in reality none of them (beyond a few outliers) have significant marketing value.
College accounting is one of the most byzantine things out there, up there with the movie business. College football somehow loses millions of dollars every year for every school involved, yet coaches keep making more money and there is an arms race when it comes to facilities. I think there's a zero percent chance you can accurately account for, say, the revenue that a top recruit brings to a program. Ultimately, I think coaches are most upset that they've lost control, power and leverage over players. If you can't get players to buy in to your program and vision, especially if your team sucks, they're going to transfer.

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2023 10:21 am
by Blue Man
SGreenwell wrote: 11 months ago
bigappleram wrote: 11 months ago
rjsuperfly66 wrote: 11 months ago

Which would be what they are worth, no?

Here is a very simple formula I would use...

Any player can make 10% of their social media followers monthly...

So a player with 100k followers can earn up to 10k per month, a player with 1 million followers $100k per month.

It semi-eliminates pay-for-play while not capping earnings.

To me something like that is players earning what they are actually worth.
The more logical framework IMO is tying them to the revenue they generate - so a formulaic manner of sharing revs generated from ticket sales, media rights and merchandise. That is the crux of the argument. The NIL thing is all a work around bc in reality none of them (beyond a few outliers) have significant marketing value.
College accounting is one of the most byzantine things out there, up there with the movie business. College football somehow loses millions of dollars every year for every school involved, yet coaches keep making more money and there is an arms race when it comes to facilities. I think there's a zero percent chance you can accurately account for, say, the revenue that a top recruit brings to a program. Ultimately, I think coaches are most upset that they've lost control, power and leverage over players. If you can't get players to buy in to your program and vision, especially if your team sucks, they're going to transfer.
The money from top level coaches is earned by the out of state prospective students they reach when the make an impact on a national stage.

Those kids pay tuition rates 2-3x in state kids, and if they wind up graduating - maybe they stay in RI, start a business or work and pay taxes here.

This is outside the obvious financial impact of a deep NCAA run for basketball.

The arms race of college basketball is most definitely worth it.

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 1:10 pm
by SmartyBarrett
"even if they conflict with state laws" ????? Good luck with that.


Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2023 3:50 pm
by RhodyKyle
SmartyBarrett wrote: 11 months ago "even if they conflict with state laws" ????? Good luck with that.

Weed is legal in RI but my employer has a zero-tolerance drug policy and would be unhappy if I lit up a joint (same for drinking). It's basically their terms and conditions, the alternative is leaving the NCAA.

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2023 8:38 am
by ramster

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2023 4:20 pm
by UCH21377
It’s possible the IRS will disqualify the collectives as nonprofit. That could slow things down

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2023 6:07 am
by ramster

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2023 10:42 am
by JimSidd
Stuff like this makes me feel the sports world has really gone through the looking glass.

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2023 11:20 am
by rjv
always nice seeing kids being kids

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2023 12:07 pm
by RIFan
So is T ball and the equivalent the last bastions of amateur sports and for the love of the game?

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2023 3:17 pm
by section(105)
Maybe not, my grandson’s parents asked if they wanted their son to move up to coach pitch early on in second year T ball.

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2023 3:20 pm
by SGreenwell
It's not like any of this is all that new. Like, you can go back to the 1970s to find examples.

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2023 12:53 am
by ramster
Social media star and Sports Illustrated swimsuit cover girl Olivia Dunne has hinted at the amazing amounts companies are willing to throw at her for a paid post.
Dunne, 20, is heading into her senior year at Louisiana State University as a member of the school’s gymnastics team. She has more than 4 million Instagram followers and 7.6 million acolytes on TikTok, meaning her online posts are seen millions of times.
That has made her the top female social media influencer, worth an estimated $3.3 million and climbing.


https://sports.yahoo.com/lsu-gymnast-ol ... p_catchall

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 11:19 am
by sbrand

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2023 8:52 am
by Blue Man
ramster wrote: 11 months ago Social media star and Sports Illustrated swimsuit cover girl Olivia Dunne has hinted at the amazing amounts companies are willing to throw at her for a paid post.
Dunne, 20, is heading into her senior year at Louisiana State University as a member of the school’s gymnastics team. She has more than 4 million Instagram followers and 7.6 million acolytes on TikTok, meaning her online posts are seen millions of times.
That has made her the top female social media influencer, worth an estimated $3.3 million and climbing.


https://sports.yahoo.com/lsu-gymnast-ol ... p_catchall
She's a different breed. Her NIL deals are legit companies paying her to spread their brand on her social media.

Most of the men's players are just getting paid by collectives who only exist to pay the players, and in turn advertising the collectives so they can keep getting paid.

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 12:13 pm
by Billyboy78
Arch Manning (yet to play a single down in college football) and Caleb Williams (likely 1st pick in next year's draft) both will make more money in NIL this year than Joe Burrow will make for the Cincinnati Bengals.

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 2:04 pm
by Jdrums#3
Billyboy78 wrote: 9 months ago Arch Manning (yet to play a single down in college football) and Caleb Williams (likely 1st pick in next year's draft) both will make more money in NIL this year than Joe Burrow will make for the Cincinnati Bengals.
Bizarro world.

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 2:30 pm
by RIFan
Will they make it from legit corp sponsors or corrupt college collectives? I’m down with Nike paying to sponsor some kids posts, but I hate the BS collectives.

If people want to follow some college athletes social media and they have hundreds of thousands of them (or millions) of these “followers” and some legit company wants to have the kid promote their product then good for them.

These collectives are artificially making a market where none exists for 99% of college athletes for their name, image or likeness.

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 2:44 pm
by SGreenwell
Billyboy78 wrote: 9 months ago Arch Manning (yet to play a single down in college football) and Caleb Williams (likely 1st pick in next year's draft) both will make more money in NIL this year than Joe Burrow will make for the Cincinnati Bengals.
This is kind of cherry picking to fit your argument, though. Burrow's salary is like $1m this year, because he already got a $23m signing bonus. His yearly contract - still on his rookie deal - is worth about $9m a year when averaged out. Arch Manning (around $3m) and Bronny James (who's NIL is estimated at like $12m) are getting paid based on family legacy. Caleb Williams NIL is reportedly about $2.6m.

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 4:37 pm
by Billyboy78
SGreenwell wrote: 9 months ago
Billyboy78 wrote: 9 months ago Arch Manning (yet to play a single down in college football) and Caleb Williams (likely 1st pick in next year's draft) both will make more money in NIL this year than Joe Burrow will make for the Cincinnati Bengals.
This is kind of cherry picking to fit your argument, though. Burrow's salary is like $1m this year, because he already got a $23m signing bonus. His yearly contract - still on his rookie deal - is worth about $9m a year when averaged out. Arch Manning (around $3m) and Bronny James (who's NIL is estimated at like $12m) are getting paid based on family legacy. Caleb Williams NIL is reportedly about $2.6m.
Caleb Williams will probably make more money next year if he stays at USC rather than entering the draft, even if he goes #1.

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2023 7:50 pm
by RIFan
Update: maybe this should be in he transfer carousel thread…up to Mod’s.

I think this is the right place for coach Cal’s thoughts on the portal:

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-baske ... e-one-done

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2023 9:25 am
by Blue Man
RIFan wrote: 9 months ago Update: maybe this should be in he transfer carousel thread…up to Mod’s.

I think this is the right place for coach Cal’s thoughts on the portal:

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-baske ... e-one-done
He's not wrong.

I just don't see this gravy train of NIL money lasting for more than a few years. The big donors/collectives are going to start to realize that they can't buy an NCAA title, no matter what they do. Paying $400k for one year of a kid who can just shop around and leave the next year or jump to the pros is going to wear thin once those investors realize the lack of ROI.

The more these guys get burned, the less they're going to open up their wallets for future transfers.

UConn was incredibly light in NIL last year. They won a title.

The top payout schools? UNC - didn't make it. Kentucky? 2nd round. Kansas? 2nd round.

When donors give to schools - they a) get something - longevity with access/name on a building etc, and b) tax write offs.

When donors give to NIL they get a player for 1 year. They can't write it off. They're just throwing money away with no guarantee that they win anything.

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2023 10:52 am
by RhowdyRam02
Blue Man wrote: 9 months ago
RIFan wrote: 9 months ago Update: maybe this should be in he transfer carousel thread…up to Mod’s.

I think this is the right place for coach Cal’s thoughts on the portal:

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-baske ... e-one-done
He's not wrong.

I just don't see this gravy train of NIL money lasting for more than a few years. The big donors/collectives are going to start to realize that they can't buy an NCAA title, no matter what they do. Paying $400k for one year of a kid who can just shop around and leave the next year or jump to the pros is going to wear thin once those investors realize the lack of ROI.

The more these guys get burned, the less they're going to open up their wallets for future transfers.

UConn was incredibly light in NIL last year. They won a title.

The top payout schools? UNC - didn't make it. Kentucky? 2nd round. Kansas? 2nd round.

When donors give to schools - they a) get something - longevity with access/name on a building etc, and b) tax write offs.

When donors give to NIL they get a player for 1 year. They can't write it off. They're just throwing money away with no guarantee that they win anything.
I think you're absolutely right. We're in a tidal wave of change with athletes getting an extra year of eligibility due to Covid, free transferring, and NIL all happening at the same time. It's a shock to the system, but eventually it will slow down and we'll get to a normal state. The extra year is already getting ready to go away completely and the NCAA is now limiting free transfers after the first one. Like you said, eventually people are going to realize they're not getting a lot for their NIL contributions and that market will correct itself

Re: Understanding the NIL

Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2023 12:21 pm
by rjsuperfly66