KeaneyBlue - The URI Basketball Forum

Tarleton State to CUSA? How will the SEC respond?

So here's where we stand so far:

SEC add Texas and Oklahoma. Conference will be Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Missouri, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Alabama, Arkansas, Auburn, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M, Texas, and Oklahoma.

Big 12 loses Texas and Oklahoma, adds BYU, Cincinnati, Houston, and Central Florida. Conference will be Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, TCU, Texas Tech, West Virginia, BYU, Cincinnati, Houston, and Central Florida.

The AAC loses Central Florida, Cincinnati, and Houston, adds UAB, Florida Atlantic, UNC Charlotte, North Texas, Rice, and UT San Antonio. Conference will be East Carolina, Memphis, South Florida, SMU, Temple, Tulane, Tulsa, UAB, Florida Atlantic, UNC Charlotte, North Texas, Rice, UT San Antonio, Wichita State (non football), and Navy (football only)

Conference USA loses UAB, Florida Atlantic, UNC Charlotte, North Texas, Rice, Southern, Mississippi, and UT San Antonio. Rumored to lose Marshall and Old Dominion. Conference is in talks with Sam Houston State, New Mexico State, and Tarleton. Conference would be Florida International, Louisiana Tech, Middle Tennessee State, UTEP, Western Kentucky, Sam Houston State, New Mexico State, and Tarleton. Yes, I had to look up who the hell Tarleton is. They are a school that was division 2 until July 2020, when they started to transition to division 1 with FCS football. They're located in some place called Stephenville, Texas.

Sun Belt Conference adds Southern Mississippi. Rumored to add Marshall, Old Dominion, and James Madison. Conference would be Appalachian State, Arkansas State, Coastal Carolina, Georgia Southern, Georgia State, Arkansas Little Rock, Louisiana Lafayette, Louisiana Monroe, South Alabama, Texas State, Texas Arlington, Troy, Southern Mississippi, Marshall, Old Dominion, James Madison

STC wrote: ↑2 years ago Tarleton State to CUSA? How will the SEC respond?

IF TARLETON STATE CAN BE POACHED THEN NO SCHOOL OR CONFERENCE IS SAFE! WHEN WILL THE ARMS RACE STOP?!

Big winners so far:
The SEC, Texas, and Oklahoma. The rich get richer.
BYU, Cincinnati, Houston, and Central Florida. They're not going to your older brother's or father's Big 12, but it's better than where they were, and should still be considered a P5 school, even if it's clearly fifth.
The Sun Belt Conference. Doesn't get poached, adds Southern Mississippi, Marshall, Old Dominion, and James Madison.

Winners:
James Madison. Should have moved up to FBS years ago. They wasted the first decade of their expanded FBS caliber stadium playing in FCS. In the end, they probably jump right to the best case scenario for them conference wise, though if they had made the jump a while ago maybe they would have had a shot at the AAC.
CAA football competitive balance. Having one school so far ahead of everyone else in your big sport, like James Madison has been in football is bad for everyone else. They suck all the oxygen out of the room and just bully teams around. Now most every school is at least fairly similar in terms of football resources.
The remaining Big 12 schools. They stay a P5 conference, while some of them could look at other destinations. I still say Kansas should be doing everything possible to move to the Big 10.
The PAC 12. The earliest conversations had the Big 10 looking to keep pace with the SEC and looking at the top PAC 12 schools as possible candidates. Staying in tact is a good outcome for them. They probably should have looked to grab Kansas and Kansas State or Iowa state (to get a basketball blue blood) or Oklahoma State and Texas Tech (to shore up football and give you inroads into Texas for recruiting). Either of those moves lets them keep their pod traveling system that they like to use.
Every school that left Conference USA for another conference. Seriously, look at the rumored Conference USA again. Gross.

Could go either way:
Delaware. This might be their last, best chance to jump to FBS, and they seem content to stay FCS even with all the noise about FBS schools looking to break off from smaller conferences. They fancy themselves an FCS super power, and frankly they have the resources to be one, but they've underachieved for a while now. Joining the remnants of Conference USA isn't great, but what if the decision not to jump dooms them to essentially D2 status in all sports? With JMU leaving they have a chance to take back their crown of dominant conference football team, they've got an 18,077 seat stadium while everyone else is between 6555 and 12,300 and they dump a ton of money into their program, but they'll be the dominant school in a much weaker FCS league, so what's the point?

Losers:
Texas A&M. No longer the only Texas school in the SEC. Their one advantage over Texas is now gone. You will forever be little brother, but at least you will be richer little brother.
Temple and Wichita State: You're basketball schools in a football conference and with UConn basketball gone, Cincinnati, Central Florida and Houston leaving, and Memphis dying to leave first chance they get, replaced by UAB, Florida Atlantic, UNC Charlotte, North Texas, Rice, and UT San Antonio your media contract is going to be terrible. You guys should come join the Atlantic 10.


Biggest losers:
UMass. Look at all the names moving or talked about. You weren't involved in a single rumor. Either grab Temple and go to the MAC for all sports if they'll even take the two of you and try to recreate your mid 90's basketball rivalry with them there, tell Delaware to snap out of it and make the leap to FBS and offer yourself as a package deal to Conference USA or drop football back to the CAA to take James Madison's vacancy. What you're doing now isn't working and it's impossible to see how you have any path going forward like this if you aren't even in a conversation now.
The Big 12 commissioner. Seriously, could you whine and cry anymore? Bitches about Texas and Oklahoma leaving, has no problem poaching schools from other conference, still giving interviews complaining about the lack of trust because of Texas and Oklahoma leaving. You had one job, which was keep those two schools in your conference and you couldn't get it done. Be thankful you still have a job, shut your mouth, and cash your checks.
Conference USA's remaining schools, especially Florida International, Middle Tennessee State, and Western Kentucky. Your conference is hot garbage. Seriously, look at that rumored conference again. Still gross. But Florida International, Middle Tennessee, and Western Kentucky have to be extra sick right now. They all left the Sun Belt for Conference USA in 2013 and 2014, and now the Sun Belt is going to be a better conference than what they are in

RR2,

WCC and Gonzaga suffer having lost BYU. One rumor is Denver leaving the Summit Conference for the WCC.

Agree with you on UMASS but UCONN also has suffered in FBS football especially since moving to the non-football Big East. Wonder if there are any regrets with joint the Big East by UCONN football fans?

FBS Sunbelt expansion from 10 to 14 Teams:
Adding:
Old Dominion - final
Southern Mississippi - final
Marshall tba
James Madison tba

• East

Georgia State
Georgia Southern
Appalachian State
Coastal Carolina
Troy

• West

Louisiana Lafayette
Louisiana Monroe
Texas State
Arkansas State
South Alabama





https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... ollow/amp/

ramster wrote: ↑2 years ago FBS Sunbelt expansion from 10 to 14 Teams:
Adding:
Old Dominion - final
Southern Mississippi - final
Marshall tba
James Madison tba

• East

Georgia State
Georgia Southern
Appalachian State
Coastal Carolina
Troy

• West

Louisiana Lafayette
Louisiana Monroe
Texas State
Arkansas State
South Alabama





https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... ollow/amp/

Ramster, with Southern Miss, Old Dominion, and Marshall now leaving, what will become of Conference USA ( also losing 6 teams to the AAC)
Why would Western KY even consider staying?
Heard rumors that Conference USA would try and pursue New Mexico State, but doubt they would join now.

Jersey77 wrote: ↑2 years ago

ramster wrote: ↑2 years ago FBS Sunbelt expansion from 10 to 14 Teams:
Adding:
Old Dominion - final
Southern Mississippi - final
Marshall tba
James Madison tba

• East

Georgia State
Georgia Southern
Appalachian State
Coastal Carolina
Troy

• West

Louisiana Lafayette
Louisiana Monroe
Texas State
Arkansas State
South Alabama





https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... ollow/amp/

Ramster, with Southern Miss, Old Dominion, and Marshall now leaving, what will become of Conference USA ( also losing 6 teams to the AAC)
Why would Western KY even consider staying?
Heard rumors that Conference USA would try and pursue New Mexico State, but doubt they would join now.

These moves by the Sunbelt are catastrophic for Conference USA

Liberty, UMASS and UCONN are still independent

Sunbelt lost no teams to the recent expansions and adding 4 good geographical fits. Less travel, better rivalries. Becoming a solid a sports conference.

Let's go, FunBelt!

RhowdyRam02 wrote: ↑2 years ago

STC wrote: ↑2 years ago Tarleton State to CUSA? How will the SEC respond?

IF TARLETON STATE CAN BE POACHED THEN NO SCHOOL OR CONFERENCE IS SAFE! WHEN WILL THE ARMS RACE STOP?!

Expanding seating again

https://tarletonsports.com/news/2021/10 ... onths.aspx

Jersey77 wrote: ↑2 years ago

ramster wrote: ↑2 years ago FBS Sunbelt expansion from 10 to 14 Teams:
Adding:
Old Dominion - final
Southern Mississippi - final
Marshall tba
James Madison tba

• East

Georgia State
Georgia Southern
Appalachian State
Coastal Carolina
Troy

• West

Louisiana Lafayette
Louisiana Monroe
Texas State
Arkansas State
South Alabama





https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... ollow/amp/

Ramster, with Southern Miss, Old Dominion, and Marshall now leaving, what will become of Conference USA ( also losing 6 teams to the AAC)
Why would Western KY even consider staying?
Heard rumors that Conference USA would try and pursue New Mexico State, but doubt they would join now.

Conf USA could possibly disband as this article suggests

https://saturdayblitz.com/2021/10/26/co ... ams/amp/3/

New Mexico State is considering C-USA this week

ramster wrote: ↑2 years ago

Jersey77 wrote: ↑2 years ago

ramster wrote: ↑2 years ago FBS Sunbelt expansion from 10 to 14 Teams:
Adding:
Old Dominion - final
Southern Mississippi - final
Marshall tba
James Madison tba

• East

Georgia State
Georgia Southern
Appalachian State
Coastal Carolina
Troy

• West

Louisiana Lafayette
Louisiana Monroe
Texas State
Arkansas State
South Alabama





https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... ollow/amp/

Ramster, with Southern Miss, Old Dominion, and Marshall now leaving, what will become of Conference USA ( also losing 6 teams to the AAC)
Why would Western KY even consider staying?
Heard rumors that Conference USA would try and pursue New Mexico State, but doubt they would join now.

Conf USA could possibly disband as this article suggests

https://saturdayblitz.com/2021/10/26/co ... ams/amp/3/

New Mexico State is considering C-USA this week

C-USA would be left with only 5 teams.
Curious what New Mexico State does.
Also rumors of Tarleton State (noted in thread), Sam Houston State, and Missouri State being pursued by C-USA , as mentioned in article below pertaining to UMass.
https://www.underdogdynasty.com/2021/10 ... -fault-cfb

C-USA will only have 3 teams left.

Dumb by UMass not to jump on the MAC for all sports train when they had the chance. Supposedly the MAC wanted them to pair with Western Kentucky and by refusing to move all sports the MAC moved on to Middle Tennessee. It would have sucked for the basketball program to downgrade, but they haven't been exceptionally competitive in so long anyway, they might as well make the move to give football a real chance. I don't see any real options left for them at the FBS level, it's time for them to come back to the CAA. It's not like the stadium has undergone some crazy changes to accommodate FBS level football that would make it out of place in the CAA

JMU has gotten Virginia state approval for FBS athletic dept funding formula proposal:





Official announcement joining the FBS Sun Belt Conference tomorrow:

Wait so are they going to the sun belt or conf usa?

steviep123 wrote: ↑2 years ago Wait so are they going to the sun belt or conf usa?

Should be the Sun Belt.
Jacksonville State will be the 4th team added to C-USA.

4 NCAA divisions?

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/sto ... er-schools

División 1 will be schools with big time football only

Ramulous wrote: ↑2 years ago División 1 will be schools with big time football only

Yep

Part of the reason schools are aligning in FBS Conferences now

Ramulous wrote: ↑2 years ago División 1 will be schools with big time football only

Zero chance this happens.

So Gonzaga, and basically the whole Big East will drop to Division 2?

No shot.

Rhody15 wrote: ↑2 years ago

Ramulous wrote: ↑2 years ago División 1 will be schools with big time football only

Zero chance this happens.

So Gonzaga, and basically the whole Big East will drop to Division 2?

No shot.

Strange as it sounds...I'd give it more than "no" shot...never underestimate big time football cashish...

There's the Cartel, and then there's everyone else.

The big football schools have already thrown all of their competition for the national championship out of the equation. They would have no qualms about getting rid of Gonzaga and the big east

Its too bad the a10/big east couldn’t reach a partnership for a football league consdering their basketball first focus and locations.

Uconn, umass, uri, villanova, richmond, duquesne, georgetown, davidson, fordham, dayton, butler would be a fun league. Not going to happen considering uconn/umass aspirations but it woild be nice and you would need to worry less about reallignment changes in the short term.

MVC now looking to add Murray State, UTA (Texas/Arlington), and Kansas City.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-baske ... nsas-city/

A10 adding Loyola Chicago.

Great add!

It looks like buy games against Stonehill will soon count as D1 contests:





Most of the powers of the old Northeast-10 D2 conference will soon have moved up. UMass-Lowell, Merrimack and Bryant already did so. Stonehill has supposedly started the process and most feel that Bentley will eventually follow suit (they already play D1 hockey).

More realignment news in the northeast. Mount St Mary's will depart the NEC to join the MAAC. This is the latest in the 2022 changes in membership for the NEC, MAAC, America East, and CAA.

Bryant | NEC to AE
Stony Brook | AE to CAA
MSM | NEC to MAAC
Monmouth | MAAC to CAA
Stonehill | D2 to NEC
Hartford | NEC to D3 (2025)
Howard | MEAC to CAA


Mount St. Mary's set to leave Northeast Conference, join MAAC, sources say
https://www.espn.com/college-sports/sto ... ources-say

College basketball realignment tracker: Keeping track of NCAA Division I conference changes
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-baske ... ce-changes

Massive NCAA conference news,

What's the news here, that they're joining the Big 12 a year early? Even the original press release from September said no later than the 2024-25 academic year, so this was always on the table if so

USC and UCLA to the Big10. UCLA and Rutgers have always been natural rivals so this makes sense. But seriously, these conferences are getting more and more preposterous in their regional alignments.

Wow!

https://247sports.com/Article/USC-UCLA- ... 189450704/

UConn to the PAC10?

Ramulous wrote: ↑1 year ago UConn to the PAC10?

UMass and UConn should return to FCS football.

I would think that schools similar to UConn and UMass that are outside the new P2 Will have much difficulty keeping up with the increasing football arms race.

Rhody74 wrote: ↑1 year ago

Ramulous wrote: ↑1 year ago UConn to the PAC10?

UMass and UConn should return to FCS football.

UMass definitely. Their stadium is pretty much the same stadium they had when they were still in the CAA, just with a video board.

UConn is in no man's land. They've got a 40,000 seat stadium half an hour away from campus, tore down the stadium they had when they were in the Atlantic 10, and don't have money for a new, smaller stadium. So on the stadium front they're locked in to FBS football. But they were so busy nuking their football program to get basketball back in to the Big East that they weren't serious contenders when the Big 12 started looking for more programs. It would be so typical UConn for them to screw up this round of conference reaffiliation that literally everyone knew was coming and still end up with the ACC invite they were always looking for though. But if the ACC invite doesn't come or they can't get out of their Big East deal I have no idea what they can do with football other than continue to burn money as a failing independent program

I just read a very interesting article in Heartland College Sports (heartland college sports.com) dated last month. According to the story, based on a recent quote from the Big 12 Commissioner (paraphrasing: Basketball is undervalued as a revenue source and has excellent potential to grow revenue for the Big 12) they speculate that the conf will look to expand - Gonzaga is already a possibility - into major media markets, mainly NYC, Wash DC, Philly, Chicago, for basketball only to fit the Comissioner’s national footprint plan.

The story further speculates that with the Big East’s media agreement running out in 24-25 that the Big 12 Commissioner could likely target 4 BE basketball only programs that fit his media market goal - St. John’s, Georgetown, Villanova and DePaul. Therefore, the BIg 12 would be a midwestern and western based football conf and a national footprint basketball conf (to grow and max basketball revenue stream).

Very interesting. Something to watch for over the next twelve months.

Jdrums#3 wrote: ↑1 year ago I just read a very interesting article in Heartland College Sports (heartland college sports.com) dated last month. According to the story, based on a recent quote from the Big 12 Commissioner (paraphrasing: Basketball is undervalued as a revenue source and has excellent potential to grow revenue for the Big 12) they speculate that the conf will look to expand - Gonzaga is already a possibility - into major media markets, mainly NYC, Wash DC, Philly, Chicago, for basketball only to fit the Comissioner’s national footprint plan.

The story further speculates that with the Big East’s media agreement running out in 24-25 that the Big 12 Commissioner could likely target 4 BE basketball only programs that fit his media market goal - St. John’s, Georgetown, Villanova and DePaul. Therefore, the BIg 12 would be a midwestern and western based football conf and a national footprint basketball conf (to grow and max basketball revenue stream).

Very interesting. Something to watch for over the next twelve months.

Putting on my speculation/what if way too early hat, this could have damaging consequences for the A10 - The Big East in that case would likely look to again raid the A10. Not sure if they would look to simply replace those markets - (Fordham, GW, Temple or St. Joe's, Loyola - I'm just throwing out A10 versions in those specific markets) or if they'd steal VCU/Dayton/SLU and get back to 10 teams.

If that happened exactly as is, could the A10 reach out to the other 7 remaining Big East teams to form a large 22 team conference? Would likely be unsustainable and I have to guess it would be a non starter for the Big East.

As much as must of us have a well deserved hatred for the Big East, any hit to the Big East in this manner is likely to yet again hurt the A10 by the Big East raiding us (and in turn may make the CAA or other leagues suffer if the A10 in turn raids them). The former A10 teams that were once raided by the Big East would make a formidable conference in their own right.

Just read a story regarding conf realignment on Mid-Major Madness from 04/11/23. Purely a spec story on their part but it involved the A10 so, I found it interesting.

The author breaks the conf moves into two parts: Moves that could happen; Moves that take some imagining to happen.

Moves under the first part include SDSU to the Pac12, ORU to the WAC, Memphis to the ACC, Grand Canyon to the WCC and DePaul to the A10.

Moves in the second part include Hofstra to the A10, VCU to the NBE, Ohio to C-USA, UC Irvine to the WCC and TX Southern to the WAC.

I disagree with the speculation regarding the A10 and DePaul as it doesn’t make sense for DePaul despite the authors reasoning. Also, I don’t see Hofstra making sense for the conference unless FU leaves. But there are other options other than Hofstra if FU did leave like, Iona or Siena, for example.

An argument could be made for VCU to the NBE if the conf is looking to expand but, if they do look to expand, there would be other options in addition to VCU, I think.

I found it interesting that the A10 came up in the article and with multiple moves to boot. I found the timing of the story - right after the Final 4 - interesting as well. Did the author hear rumors at the FInal 4 that led to the story, perhaps?

Anyway, thought I’d post about the story since things are currently quiet on the portalpalooza front at this time.

Any thoughts, alternatives, etc to the authors speculations ?

DePaul to the A-10 makes no fucking sense. Even if they suck in the Big East, they still get a big bag of money for being in that conference, thanks to the TV contract. DePaul has no history with the A-10 that I'm aware of, and it's not like our conference has a huge history with Chicago or Illinois either. Likewise, I doubt Fordham leaves the A-10 anytime soon. (When's the last time a basketball program willingly moved down a level? Has it ever happened in A-10 history? As much as I wish it would happen with some teams.)

Hofstra doesn't really move the needle much for me as an addition, but I don't think they're any better or worse than the usual options bandied about (Siena, Iona, etc.). As of late, I've been drifting more to the side that having a smaller conference in the future might be better. It gives you a few more OOC scheduling opportunities, or, you can play a more balanced schedule.

Agreed, SG, DePaul to the A10 makes no sense. And these guys run a mid-major conf site and throw out that non-sense. Granted, the SDSU to the PAC 12 makes sense and has been speculated on repeatedly by others.

I agree with your thought of a smaller conference as well. It’s not likely to happen anytime soon, unfortunately. But, it the A10 goes another 2-3 years of having one NCAAT bid, the traditionally better programs (and/or programs with higher basketball and financial aspirations) could start looking to jump ship to another conf or form a new one.

That said, I expect the conf to bounce back to 2 bid (even 3 bids in good years when everything aligns well for the conference) territory.


I enjoy speculating on conferences. They make for interesting business cases in a quickly changing college sports landscape.

Speaking of Depaul, it has some serious budget issues as it is facing a potential $56.6M deficit for its next fiscal year unless it makes some big cuts.


Largest Catholic University in US Faces $56 Million Budget Gap
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... nt-shrinks

RF1 wrote: ↑1 year ago Speaking of Depaul, it is facing some serious budget issues as it is facing a potential $56.6M deficit for its next fiscal year unless it makes some big cuts.


Largest Catholic University in US Faces $56 Million Budget Gap
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... nt-shrinks

That is surprising to me, RF1, when considering the revenue coming in from being a NBE conf member. But then, I have not looked into their particular situation as I only have a surface view.

Surprising to me too that their gap is in line with UCONN’s, though UConn is a larger institution with football, hockey and infrastructure to maintain.

Thanks for posting the article. I will check it out.

ETA: I never knew DePaul is the largest US Catholic U.

Jdrums#3 wrote: ↑1 year ago

RF1 wrote: ↑1 year ago Speaking of Depaul, it is facing some serious budget issues as it is facing a potential $56.6M deficit for its next fiscal year unless it makes some big cuts.


Largest Catholic University in US Faces $56 Million Budget Gap
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... nt-shrinks

That is surprising to me, RF1, when considering the revenue coming in from being a NBE conf member. But then, I have not looked into their particular situation as I only have a surface view.

Surprising to me too that their gap is in line with UCONN’s, though UConn is a larger institution with football, hockey and infrastructure to maintain.

Thanks for posting the article. I will check it out.

ETA: I never knew DePaul is the largest US Catholic U.

The Depaul budget shortfall is not just for athletics such as the UConn athletics only $53M deficit that has been discussed on these boards. It is for the entire institution.

Thanks for the clarification, RF1.

RF1 wrote: ↑1 year ago

Jdrums#3 wrote: ↑1 year ago

RF1 wrote: ↑1 year ago Speaking of Depaul, it is facing some serious budget issues as it is facing a potential $56.6M deficit for its next fiscal year unless it makes some big cuts.


Largest Catholic University in US Faces $56 Million Budget Gap
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... nt-shrinks

That is surprising to me, RF1, when considering the revenue coming in from being a NBE conf member. But then, I have not looked into their particular situation as I only have a surface view.

Surprising to me too that their gap is in line with UCONN’s, though UConn is a larger institution with football, hockey and infrastructure to maintain.

Thanks for posting the article. I will check it out.

ETA: I never knew DePaul is the largest US Catholic U.

The Depaul budget shortfall is not just for athletics such as the UConn athletics only $53M deficit that has been discussed on these boards. It is for the entire institution.

Interesting how enrollment has decreased every year of the time period, and relatively steady decline year after year.

Wonder if during that time period if admission scores and other admission criteria have decreased in order to try to lure more students to offset the drop in students.

Private institutions are in precarious situations because of their high tuition rates compared to public institutions.