General Recruiting Discussion/Comments 2022 and before

[rambone 78]

Billyboy, I'm still in the camp of those who think we'll get one of these guys.

Remember, it looked like we had no chance at Garrett, and then he committed to us.

Up until now, none of the top guys we're looking at, has decided yet. Until they all do, then I'm hopeful we get at least one of them.

I know I've been guilty of negativity here, but it looks like almost everybody has given up. I haven't yet, despite the rumors.

And that's all they really are, just rumors.

One thing that's a positive, to me at least, is that we have a lot of irons in the fire. No more putting all our eggs in one basket.

[Billyboy78]

If we're going to get this program to the top of the A10, we need someone like Cooke or especially a Terrell or a player of his caliber. Gustys might be a nice player, but I don't see him getting us to that next level. We're heading into year 3. This was when we expected to start getting big time recruits, especially after we got 2 in year 2. This is the chance. I won't take credit for this next thought, but I totally agree. We are short a recruiter and we are in California during this crucial time. Why?????

[URI_IEP]

This recruiting forum is like crack, frequency of use goes up and satisfaction goes down. I need to go cold turkey...

[rambone 78]

Well there's only 3 more weeks left to the madness [this signing period], so it'll all be over soon.

If we end up getting some 2 star leftover out of all this, then this board is going to be a pretty shitty place to be for a while.

[BFC]

Well there's only 3 more weeks left to the madness [this signing period], so it'll all be over soon.

If we end up getting some 2 star leftover out of all this, then this board is going to be a pretty shitty place to be for a while.

It won't be over by then, transfers are not bound by the signing period.

[rambone 78]

True. Getting a transfer or 5th year player could still happen for us, but not getting one of our top 4 year targets would still be a major bummer.

We might have to wait until the new hire can make a difference. If.

A failure here reflects very poorly on Dan. Here is a guy with all these so-called "connections" getting nothing out of them. Not good.

[rodfromcranston]

Only if the new hire has a player who come with him.
Pretty doubtful, at the level we're at.
Remember how excited we all were when Dan was hired?
Dreams of piplelnes from St. Anthony's and other places where
the Hurley name counted.
Well, we're going into year three, and not a whisper of a St. Anthony's
connection, and other than Mike Aaman, nothing from NJ, other than
transfers Dan was familiar with from St. Benedict's.
We had one glorious weekend with EC and Hassan signing.
Since then, Garrett, Watson and crickets.
Not what we expected at this point.

[rambone 78]

Rod, I really don't think the name Dan Hurley excites these kids. Yeah, he's Bobby's brother. That's it.

You know, the Duke guy who won 2 titles. He's got the rep, not Dan.

Dan's got the last name, but not the cache. He can't rely on getting players based on that alone. Bobby can.

I was on the fence before, but I'm now totally convinced that losing Bobby hurt the program. It was going to happen anyway, but it happened too soon. If Bobby had stayed for another couple of years, I think we would have had better results.

After a couple more years, Bobby's leaving wouldn't have been such a big deal. URI would be winning and attracting better players, just as VCU now does. His leaving came at the worst possible time for the program, before it really got off the ground.

We're seeing the results of that now.

[rhodylaw]

Bone - I agree. Bobby leaving hurt more than Preston leaving. Both leaving back to back years even worse.

That said, we are in on some good players. The holes we are filling did not exist at the beginning of last year so we got a late jump on this class. We got JG who I think will be very good. We got another big that looks like he will at least be able to get some rebounds and provide some muscle next to Gil and Hassan. The team is better now than it was at the end of the season and we have a shot at Rokas, Jared and Cooke. 1 out of three and we have officially weathered the storm.

Also - I am not counting out butler as giving better minutes next year. He can shoot and you can't teach that. It was sorely missed last year as well.

[sf2010]

One out of Gustys or Owens would be important, Cooke would be outstanding (though probably not for next year), Terrell would be program-enhancing. Need at least one of the four, but it's clearly Terrell and then everyone else.

[rambone 78]

Like Rod, I'm not going to the Towers event Thursday night.

Hopefully someone who is going, can fill us in on what, if anything is discussed there.

Would be nice if there was a recruit signing announcement, but I'm not holding my breath.

[rodfromcranston]

Last year they did a nice "Thank you" event for season ticket holders at Rhody Joe's.
Everyone enjoyed themselves, and it was very informal and everyone mixed with staff
and media.
This year, it's a totally different deal. Another Alpine type event.
I'll pass.

[ATPTourFan]

I will be there, but I'm not expecting tons of info right in the middle of a signing period so crucial.

[rambone 78]

It's a good thing they didn't schedule it after the signing period.

Because if they did, and we don't get anybody in the next 3 weeks, it would be a quiet event.

Yes getting Garrett is nice, but we need more.

We don't need Dan saying things look good on the recruiting front, we need results.

[scine20]

As someone that is not very educated on the recruiting process, when is the deadline for people like Terrell or Gustys to make their decisions? I know in general students have until May 1st to make their college decisions so I would think that the deadline is near. Thanks.

[rodfromcranston]

May 20th. Long way away.

[scine20]

May 20th. Long way away.

Thanks. And best of luck to your daughter.

[sf2010]

Realllllly big week or so coming up for our Rhody Rams. I recall hearing that Gustys will make a decision in the next week or so, have there been any reports of a timeline for Terrell?

[Gonebarongone]

Rod, I really don't think the name Dan Hurley excites these kids. Yeah, he's Bobby's brother. That's it.

You know, the Duke guy who won 2 titles. He's got the rep, not Dan.

Dan's got the last name, but not the cache. He can't rely on getting players based on that alone. Bobby can.

I was on the fence before, but I'm now totally convinced that losing Bobby hurt the program. It was going to happen anyway, but it happened too soon. If Bobby had stayed for another couple of years, I think we would have had better results.

After a couple more years, Bobby's leaving wouldn't have been such a big deal. URI would be winning and attracting better players, just as VCU now does. His leaving came at the worst possible time for the program, before it really got off the ground.

We're seeing the results of that now.

I agree. Losing Bobby hurt. But, honestly, why was this whole fan base (myself included) excited about DH taking over the program? We knew Bobby wouldn't be here forever. In fact, come thought he might just take over Wagner for a few days. Speaking for myself, having never seen a Saint B's game or Wagner game, the excitement was because of the Hurley name. It's revisionism to say otherwise. At the very least, his name would carry weight in the tri-state area. And, how many AAU coaches did he meet over the years. We weren't excited because we thought Hubie Brown redux was going to X and O his way to the top. We were excited because we thought he would elevate recruiting. It hasn't been terrible but it was waned.

[rodfromcranston]

I saw Hurley's Wagner play at Bryant, and was impressed at what I saw.
I like that he was so involved in every part of the game.
Most of us were impressed that he took Wagner to 25 wins in two
years and beat Pitt at Pitt.
We also figured the pipeline between St. Anthony's and URI would be a reality.
Three years in, not the case.
None of the NJ connections have products anything thus far.
Other than one great weekend in 2012, it's Garrett and Watson.
The bloom is clearly off the rose and now it's "show us" time.

[RoadyJay]

I'm taking a more patient approach. We all know what Hurley inherited and what happened even within the first few months of his hire. Can't fault him for that at all.

All I'm looking for is continued progress and thus far that has happened. Maybe not at the pace that we all want but I think we are already better next year with Garrett and Watson coming in, EC and Hass maturing, etc, etc, and possibly Hare. My expectations for a tourney appearance come in EC and Hassan's Junior and Senior years. If we don't make the tourney in those years then I'll surely be disappointed.

Next year I'd be happy with another jump in wins from 14 to the 17-20 range.

If we land Terrell or Cooke and Gustys then next year the tourney is a possibility.

[rodfromcranston]

"If we land Terrell or Cooke and Gustys then next year the tourney is a possibility."
The roster, as currently constituted, without any of these or Owens, looks like a .500
team. Maybe slightly better, given EC and Hassan's improving.
Still don't have a wing/shooter or a center.
Dan himself needs to step up.

[Gonebarongone]

"If we land Terrell or Cooke and Gustys then next year the tourney is a possibility."
The roster, as currently constituted, without any of these or Owens, looks like a .500
team. Maybe slightly better, given EC and Hassan's improving.
Still don't have a wing/shooter or a center.
Dan himself needs to step up.

Really like to see Butler take a step next year. It's too easy for people these days to give up on players after their freshman campaigns. I remember when productive frosh were the exception and kids who sat the bench for a year or two could turn into productive parts of a good team.

This team has a few needs but they desperately need a shooter. All good teams have at least that one guy who is a threat from deep. It just does so much for your offense when the defense has to extend.

[rodfromcranston]

Alex Kline ‏@TheRecruitScoop 13m
2015 wing Dillon Brooks of CIA Bounce (CAN) has earned an offer from Rhode Island, a source says.

[Billyboy78]

I would put the Garrett signing about on par with the Hassan signing. Now we need someone on par with the EC signing. We just so happen to have a shot at one, maybe even a bit better than EC, although that would remain to be seen. I love EC. Now Dan needs to go and get him.

[RoadyJay]

"If we land Terrell or Cooke and Gustys then next year the tourney is a possibility."
The roster, as currently constituted, without any of these or Owens, looks like a .500
team. Maybe slightly better, given EC and Hassan's improving.
Still don't have a wing/shooter or a center.
Dan himself needs to step up.

We're not so far off then... .500 would be ~16 wins. I'm slightly more optimistic at 17+. The EC and Hass growth, plus expected improvements from Gil and Jarelle (not giving up on Jarelle yet), and contributions from Watson and Garrett more than offset the loss of X in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, I will be disappointed if we don't land some combination of the '14 recruits we in the mix on. If we land none of them, some doubt will creep in my mind about our ability to bring in the talent we need to make a run at the tourney. But even without some combination of these additions I see a slight uptick in results.

[rodfromcranston]

Agree, Roady Jay.

[Seawrightspostgame]

The team will be way better when you take into account that a year makes a huge difference in the body composition of athletes around the age of 20. They will be more athletic in some way.

The transfers will be able to take this year and build skills that will make them successful in those situations. You can do everything as a d1 player in a practice or pick up game. Look great. But you get in the game and you always get the ball on the baseline? Practice catching that pass and taking that shot.

I saw Gil shooting 3's for hours before this last season. Probably doesn't need that. A jab step and a elbow shot would work wonders for him.

The mental reps for the team will go far. Dan will be able to game plan for their actual skills, not their lofty made up skills.

Just Tj has never played as much as he did last year, he now knows cramps are a problem and should never have that problem again.

Plus the most gifted guys will a year older and better. Them being the youngest will see the biggest gain.

I expect a return to the feel of '12 where the team seemed to play a style with principles. The player knowing their skill set and Dan knowing their skill set will make them all attempt to maximize the whole potion.

I will be predicting 20 wins as usual. But believe it more this year than anything it will happen

[ace]

[Iggy1979]

There's nothing more frustrating than coming close and not getting the prize. Hurley and staff have done a great job getting URI involved in some very good players. Of Gustys, Owens, Cooke and Terrell the only other A-10 team to show up on any of the lists is Dayton (Cooke and Owens).
If they don't get any of these four players that will hurt. But does it mean the staff isn't up to the task or just shows how difficult it is to recruit at URI? I'm going back and forth between both of those.
There's no shame in losing a player to Iowa St., BC or PC. While I think URI needs another talented guard more than a big, it would be most disappointing if they can't land Gustys. If URI is going to lose Terrell because he wants to play in a better conference, shouldn't URI be able to get Gustys because the A-10 is the best conference on his list?
URI has three building blocks: Mathews, Martin and Garrett. They need a couple more. It would be great to get one more this year and another next year. We'll see what happens.

[adam914]

There's nothing more frustrating than coming close and not getting the prize. Hurley and staff have done a great job getting URI involved in some very good players. Of Gustys, Owens, Cooke and Terrell the only other A-10 team to show up on any of the lists is Dayton (Cooke and Owens).
If they don't get any of these four players that will hurt. But does it mean the staff isn't up to the task or just shows how difficult it is to recruit at URI? I'm going back and forth between both of those.
There's no shame in losing a player to Iowa St., BC or PC. While I think URI needs another talented guard more than a big, it would be most disappointing if they can't land Gustys. If URI is going to lose Terrell because he wants to play in a better conference, shouldn't URI be able to get Gustys because the A-10 is the best conference on his list?
URI has three building blocks: Mathews, Martin and Garrett. They need a couple more. It would be great to get one more this year and another next year. We'll see what happens.

I hear ya Iggy, I think thats a valid struggle between the two points that alot of people are wondering right now. But as far as "If URI is going to lose Terrell because he wants to play in a better conference, shouldn't URI be able to get Gustys because the A-10 is the best conference on his list?" They are different players, whats important to one might not be as important to the other. So it's not quite that simple really.

[TruePoint]

Iggy I mostly agree, but your statement about Terrell, Gustys and conferences is not taking into account that different things matter for different kids. Conference may matter most to Terrell, but not be as big of a factor with Gustys.

I think if the on-court results continue to trend in the direction they have, we will be in better position to close some of these recruitments. Getting into the last group is a testament to the staff; not being able to close them is a reflection of how the program is perceived from the outside. That will change when the team wins.

[adam914]

Iggy I mostly agree, but your statement about Terrell, Gustys and conferences is not taking into account that different things matter for different kids. Conference may matter most to Terrell, but not be as big of a factor with Gustys.

I think if the on-court results continue to trend in the direction they have, we will be in better position to close some of these recruitments. Getting into the last group is a testament to the staff; not being able to close them is a reflection of how the program is perceived from the outside. That will change when the team wins.

Yup.

[rodfromcranston]

Ed Cooley had never been to an NCAA until this year.
Somehow, he's been able to recruit a slew of top 100 players in his
time at PC.
He brought them into a school that was in the lower rung of the old BE for years.
I think Cooley himself puts then in with top rated kids, not the porgram.
Larry Brown loads up a never was program in two years at SMU.
What was the perception when he began?

[TruePoint]

Every situation is different. When Cooley got to providence he was recruiting to the premier conference in college hoops, and he had been a college coach in New England for two decades so he had relationships established that he could plug right into. Also, call a spade a spade. Cooley is an excellent recruiter. But like I said, every situation is different. I would have loved a faster turn around, but I'm not shocked it's a slog.

[ramster]

Iggy I mostly agree, but your statement about Terrell, Gustys and conferences is not taking into account that different things matter for different kids. Conference may matter most to Terrell, but not be as big of a factor with Gustys.

I think if the on-court results continue to trend in the direction they have, we will be in better position to close some of these recruitments. Getting into the last group is a testament to the staff; not being able to close them is a reflection of how the program is perceived from the outside. That will change when the team wins.

So if they DO close on them will that be a reflection of how the program is perceived from the outside? Or will all the credit go to the staff?

[TruePoint]

I think the credit will go to the staff, although the two aren't necessarily independent from one another. If the coaches can get kids to look beyond just our record and see the program as in position to make a giant leap forward, shouldn't the credit for that go to the staff?

[ramster]

I think the credit will go to the staff, although the two aren't necessarily independent from one another. If the coaches can get kids to look beyond just our record and see the program as in position to make a giant leap forward, shouldn't the credit for that go to the staff?

Absolutely, positively the credit should go to the staff if they sign any of these guys. My point was you saying if they don't sign then that is because of the perception of the program.
Can't lost scenario for the staff right?

Sign them the staff gets credit.
Don't sign them --- oh well the program perception did us in. Not our fault.

Sign them credit the staff.
Don't sign them then that is on the staff too.

No excuses.

Jim Harrick never blamed the perception of the program.

[Gonebarongone]

I don't want to say winning or a won/loss record is overrated when it comes to recruiting but I think that recruits don't care nearly as much about that as the fan of the team might think. I think you make relationships with a staff, you look at road to playing time, the type and amount of exposure they are going to get, etc. Kids choose NC State over UNC. They choose Providence over Pittsburgh. They don't think their four years are going to be bad no matter where they go. Would you rather sit in front of the kid at 20-10 than 10-20? Absolutely. I just think it is too often an excuse for fans that never comes to fruition. Wait until we win! But, you need players to win.

[TruePoint]

I think the credit will go to the staff, although the two aren't necessarily independent from one another. If the coaches can get kids to look beyond just our record and see the program as in position to make a giant leap forward, shouldn't the credit for that go to the staff?

Absolutely, positively the credit should go to the staff if they sign any of these guys. My point was you saying if they don't sign then that is because of the perception of the program.
Can't lost scenario for the staff right?

Sign them the staff gets credit.
Don't sign them --- oh well the program perception did us in. Not our fault.

Sign them credit the staff.
Don't sign them then that is on the staff too.

No excuses.

Jim Harrick never blamed the perception of the program.

In a sense, it is a can't lose for the staff right now, except they are ultimately responsible for the product on the court. You only get so long to turn it around. But I think to expect them to make water out of wine when the program has been down for so long is unfair.

As far as Harrick, he took over a very good program and made it great (briefly). He didn't make excuses because he didn't have any or need any. Two totally different situations.

[Gonebarongone]

In a sense, it is a can't lose for the staff right now, except they are ultimately responsible for the product on the court. You only get so long to turn it around. But I think to expect them to make water out of wine when the program has been down for so long is unfair.

As far as Harrick, he took over a very good program and made it great (briefly). He didn't make excuses because he didn't have any or need any. Two totally different situations.

It's just two different ways of looking at things. I don't think a coach gets a set period where he is free from criticism or accountability. In fact, it was my main point at the beginning of his first season. He hasn't earned anything. Just simply keep evaluating the results on the court and on the recruiting front. There is a lens through which to view it, though. What CFL left, etc. But, it's not like on May 1, 2016, he is suddenly accountable. His last three commits were Butler, Watson, Garrett. He lost his two best recruiters. If he whiffs on these three, it's just a poor job. If he gets 1, 2, or 3, it changes the equation.

[TruePoint]

I agree with your overall point, but disagree with your application of it to this situation. Definitely don't think you get a "free pass period" and then one day you're accountable. But I think you have to remain mindful the whole situation and not just say "we didn't land any of these three players so therefore it's his fault and he sucks."

To me, the turnaround here was/is tough. As far as on-court results, many expected better sooner, but with the benefit of hindsight I don't think we are behind at all. So when I look at this current recruiting situation, I find it hard to use the lack of elite recruits in this class (if things don't break in our favor here) as an indictment of the coach and his staff based on where we are in this process right now.

I expect the team to be better next year even if we go 0/4 in this late period AND Hare doesn't come back, then I expect us to be more successful next recruiting cycle when we can point to that improvement on the court as evidence that things are trending up. If either of those don't happen, that is where I will start being worried. As of now, I think things are reasonably on schedule, even if I wish it was happening faster.

[ramster]

I think the credit will go to the staff, although the two aren't necessarily independent from one another. If the coaches can get kids to look beyond just our record and see the program as in position to make a giant leap forward, shouldn't the credit for that go to the staff?

Absolutely, positively the credit should go to the staff if they sign any of these guys. My point was you saying if they don't sign then that is because of the perception of the program.
Can't lost scenario for the staff right?

Sign them the staff gets credit.
Don't sign them --- oh well the program perception did us in. Not our fault.

Sign them credit the staff.
Don't sign them then that is on the staff too.

No excuses.

Jim Harrick never blamed the perception of the program.

In a sense, it is a can't lose for the staff right now, except they are ultimately responsible for the product on the court. You only get so long to turn it around. But I think to expect them to make water out of wine when the program has been down for so long is unfair.

As far as Harrick, he took over a very good program and made it great (briefly). He didn't make excuses because he didn't have any or need any. Two totally different situations.

I only mention Harrick because he didn't make excuses - it was his personality in life. Nothing to do with what he did or did not inherit.

I agree that your believe is that this is a "can't lose" for the staff right now. You are the #1 defender of the staff on this board. It's like they can do no wrong and you defend them - sure it's your right to do that.

But I disagree that the staff gets a free pass.

I think that Dan Hurley is at an important point in his coaching career. He came in here with a high level of fanfare. Next year is an important year for URI. Going from 7 wins when he came to 8 in his first season to 14 last year is not having BCS Schools knocking down his door. The Transfers Minnis, Biruta, Reischel and Freshman Iffy were not the players that they were build up to be by the URI Staff.
I would have hoped we would be talking about 2015 players now - those are the kids that are the focus of the Top Programs. We are at the table very late in the 2014 recruiting season trying to grab some talent.
I think if you asked Dan Hurley two years ago if this would be the picture he would say no - he had higher expectaitons.
Don't get me wrong I like Dan Hurley, I want him here at URI but I don't give him the free pass at all for this recruiting year or any recruiting year for that matter.

[ramster]

I think the credit will go to the staff, although the two aren't necessarily independent from one another. If the coaches can get kids to look beyond just our record and see the program as in position to make a giant leap forward, shouldn't the credit for that go to the staff?

Absolutely, positively the credit should go to the staff if they sign any of these guys. My point was you saying if they don't sign then that is because of the perception of the program.
Can't lost scenario for the staff right?

Sign them the staff gets credit.
Don't sign them --- oh well the program perception did us in. Not our fault.

Sign them credit the staff.
Don't sign them then that is on the staff too.

No excuses.

Jim Harrick never blamed the perception of the program.

In a sense, it is a can't lose for the staff right now, except they are ultimately responsible for the product on the court. You only get so long to turn it around. But I think to expect them to make water out of wine when the program has been down for so long is unfair.

As far as Harrick, he took over a very good program and made it great (briefly). He didn't make excuses because he didn't have any or need any. Two totally different situations.

I wonder of Christian and Cooley feel that they are in a "can't lose" situation?
I see these two guys being very aggressive over the next 6 months on the recruitng trail. Cooley already has the #21 Recruiting Class in the country playing the watered down New Big East - we certainly have not seen any let up from him and now he is probably going to add Terrell to the mix - my ultimate nightmare.

[rodfromcranston]

Ramster + 2 (extra+1 for his duplicate post)

[Iggy1979]

This whole belief that you have to win first to recruit -- the easiest time to recruit is when the program is down. If you look at the success URI has had, the best recruiting classes came in when the program was down, they played right away, and in a couple of years the team was good.
Kids want playing time and you can promise playing time when you don't have a lot of good players.
Hurley has been unable to recruit another good 2G because they would've had to play behind Munford and now Matthews. They might be willing to wait their turn at Kansas, but not at URI.
Conversely, there doesn't seem to be a good excuse for not being able to bring in a good wing who could beat out JR for minutes.

[adam914]

Weren't most people generally pretty pleased with the results after we landed Garrett? Maybe I am not remembering accurately, but it seemed like for the most part everybody was pretty happy. Yeah we all knew we needed one more scorer (wing/guard/whatever), but I don't think people were as frustrated as they seem to be now. So just because Terrell opened back up his recruitment and we (assumed) won't be getting him, it's seen as a failure?

[Iggy1979]

There was hope when Terrell and Cooke became available. When you take hope away from people it can get ugly.

[TruePoint]

I only mention Harrick because he didn't make excuses - it was his personality in life. Nothing to do with what he did or did not inherit.

I agree that your believe is that this is a "can't lose" for the staff right now. You are the #1 defender of the staff on this board. It's like they can do no wrong and you defend them - sure it's your right to do that.

But I disagree that the staff gets a free pass.

I think that Dan Hurley is at an important point in his coaching career. He came in here with a high level of fanfare. Next year is an important year for URI. Going from 7 wins when he came to 8 in his first season to 14 last year is not having BCS Schools knocking down his door. The Transfers Minnis, Biruta, Reischel and Freshman Iffy were not the players that they were build up to be by the URI Staff.
I would have hoped we would be talking about 2015 players now - those are the kids that are the focus of the Top Programs. We are at the table very late in the 2014 recruiting season trying to grab some talent.
I think if you asked Dan Hurley two years ago if this would be the picture he would say no - he had higher expectaitons.
Don't get me wrong I like Dan Hurley, I want him here at URI but I don't give him the free pass at all for this recruiting year or any recruiting year for that matter.

I only used the word free pass to answer your question directly. That isn't the term I would use. What I would say is that I don't think when you "hold accountable" the staff for not landing these prime recruiting targets, it is punishing them for being aggressive and aiming high. As I've explained in other posts elsewhere (only the posts that you quote seem to count in our discussions, like you haven't read anything else I've said), I expect that eventually we should win these battles but the reality is if we won them now it would be an extraordinary accomplishment, considering where we are in the rebuild. Another year or two of improvement to the same degree as we saw last year and I think we will be in a position to expect to win them. For now, they would be coups.

You can call that giving them a pass if you want. I like Dan and believe he is the guy to turn this around. I said that when we hired him and haven't backed off, and I don't deny that. But it isn't that they can do no wrong. I have no personal loyalty to Dan or his staff. I'm just trying to be realistic, and realistically I don't think he has been perfect but I have no complaints to this point. As I've said, I think we are on schedule, it is just unfortunately not the schedule some of us hoped for at the outset.

[adam914]

There was hope when Terrell and Cooke became available. When you take hope away from people it can get ugly.

Yeah for sure, I get that. Just wondering what the tone would be had those guys stuck to their original plans.